Look What Happens When I Try To Get Money from dell!

When I disagree with someone we either debate it rationally or if we decide that it's simply a point of view issue that neither person is "wrong" or "right" on but just different, we then agree to disagree.

Look at it this way, my favorite color is red, your is _______ want to argue over who's color is the better one? No?

Well I think it's ok to request a refund for the EULA because it's not explicitly stated anywhere that you are not supposed to. You think it's not ok because you feel you know Dells intentions and how things work that I don't think you can be sure of...

Right after you convince me your favorite color is better than mine we can move on to the EULA refund question ok?

If it's illegal, then what we really feel is a moot point, as the EULA of living in the US (assuming you also live here, if not I think the point is still followable) is that you must accept and abide by laws set forth by the governing bodies, and as I do live here and agreed to that rule set... that's what I go by.

 

I know this is going way off topic, but one last comment: the danger comes when differentiating between a moral issue, a point of view or a legal issue. IIn my opinion people tend to place genuine moral issues in one of the latter two categories far too often

 

I think that the TC/OP should have asked for no OS BEFORE he got his laptop or whatnot. I bet he could have configured it that way.

How much did the TC/OP get the laptop for? I bet it is far cheaper than other manufacturers.

 

Yet another common flaw... rationalization...

It doesn't matter how much you pay or how good a deal you got... rules are still rules...

If I somehow bought a copy of Vista for $2000 and find out after agreeing and installing it that I could have had 10 copies for that price I cannot then argue with MS that they should now let me install it on 10 computers despite the license being for one just because of the price...

By the same tolken if they sell me a license for half the MSRP they cannot then say they will cripple my install because a I got such a good deal.

Rules are rules...

 

than there the matter of just how much the refund be, i think its unreasonable for it to be done at the cost they sell it on their site and i doubt they will tell you how much they pay for it so its up to them to pick a number out of the air.

 

I am pretty sure somewhere someone decided the exact percentage of value everything they sell... it would be pretty bad accounting if they didn't...

 

yes but than are they given what it really costed us? afterall its only there word.

 

No you don't! Next time read a return policy before you try to scam Dell. Also, you could have upgraded to a different OS if you wanted. Its your fault your scam failed. I'm glad Dell follows the rules they state so people like you can't get away with stupid crap to save like what? $50

 

Toxic everything they tell you is what they choose to... they tell you how much everything you buy will cost you regarldess of what they paid for it and they tell you what you what can and can't be done about broken parts/problems which is obviously not set in stone as I personally have recieved different answers from different people.

But you are certainly right that not everyone gets the same thing.

Chesie maybe I missed it, but what part of Dells return policy did bigboy miss? What rules are you referring to that they are abiding by?

Also I am not sure about you but when I ordered my 1400 there was no option to upgrade to linux... in fact they wouldn't even let me pay to get home premium...

 

so OP, how did you you get upwards of 3800 in 3dmark06, esp. running Vista? What drivers are you using? Overclocked?

 

I just wasted my life reading this thread and am wasting a bit more replying, but here goes...

I can't understand the original poster's (OP) argument at all... Dell makes perfect sense... They bundled the OS with the computer for FREE! You can decline the EULA (a right you have), but you can't get any money back because it was free. So where is Dell being wrong here?

You attach a value to the cost of Vista and I'm sure Dell paid SOMETHING for it, but that doesn't mean they charged you for it. Let me give you a nice simple analogy that should make this clear...

Imagine going to Staples to buy a printer and they say "since you purchased our Deluxe printer we'll give you this ream of Staples brand paper for free" and you get home and find out the paper sucks compared to your preferred HP brand. You can't go to Staples and go "Hey I want $4.99 back for that ream of paper you gave me with my printer as it is crap!". They would tell you that you can either keep the paper OR return the PRINTER for your money back. As after all, the paper was free to you...

Staples paid something for that paper just like how Dell paid something for that copy of Vista, but they can absorb that cost and give it away if they choose too...

Dell offers a return policy on their hardware so you COULD return the COMPUTER and go elsewhere. Otherwise, you don't have an argument really...

You would have an argument if you paid EXTRA for an upgraded version of Vista... Like Home Premium when the bundle comes with Home Basic, but since that isn't your situation you are standing on an argument with no foundation...

If you are so hard up for cash maybe you should have gotten a machine lighter on specs or no machine at all...

 

frazell -- very well said.....

this topic is getting way out of hand. there is always someone who wants to whine and complain no matter what....

For the OP: all the time spent on this ridiculous thread could have been used mowing some lawns or selling plasma or something and you'd be $50 richer by now.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE DELL's TERMS, RETURN YOUR LAPTOP TO DELL AND BUY SOMETHING ELSE. Go to Best Buy and buy an ASUS or Sony (both of which are very fine products) and then when you get home call up Best Buy, or better yet ASUS or Sony and demand a refund for Vista.

Report back when finished. You're dismissed.

 

Try buying a car without an engine, or buy it with an engine and then try to get reimbursed for it because you already have an engine you wanna put in there.
Just as the car runs on the engine, a computer runs on the operating system. It's bundled with the computer just as an engine is bundled with the car.

You're just trying to take advantage of the terms and in effect probably screwing other people. I.E Dell will raise prices in order for compensation and so on. Don't say your money won't make a dent in the pricing, that's NOT the point here.

You knew what you were getting, and you chose to do it.

Just as Ford can't sell you a car without the engine, Dell can't sell you a computer without the OS. Get over it and stop trying to defend it.

 

I believe at some point Dell as well as other large pc makers did offer PCs with a no OS option as well as sometimes a linux option.

So it is not true that they cannot sell you a PC without an OS.

As for everyone saying "if you don't like it go elsewhere" that is a very flawed argument...

I see it all the time... don't like the war in Iraq? Move out of the US.

Don't like games that use starforce/securerom? Go play some other game.

Don't like not getting a refund on a product which clearly states in it's EULA you can get a refund? Go buy from someone eles.

The end result is almost always that what you ran away from becomes ubiquitous and then arguments like "everyone does it, I don't know why you are whining so much" are next to follow...

It's already much that way... none of the big companies offer anything but windows... true a PC needs an OS to run, false that it needs Windows to run... thats why that argument is flawed. But becuase everyone does it that way people are smoten for pointing out that it's not right to force you.

Go check out the Bioshock forums... no one should like crappy, secretive software installed along with a game you purchased by plenty of the same (flawed) arguments abound there...

Don't like it? Leave. Is about the worst, most immature mentallity you can have.

As for the Staples and paper thing... it's more like what if Staples forced you to buy their crappy paper every time you bought a printer from them? Not quite the same right?

And just like the argument that trying to get money back from Dell will cause Dell to raise prices, Staples can SAY paper is free instead of forcing you to buy, but in reality we all know the buck gets passed somewhere, so that printer really does reflect the price of the paper.

Seen that tire add with the guy asking if the tire is "free free"? Yeah...

So Staples forces you to buy crappy paper, someone says, don't like it, shutup and buy elsewhere... Best Buy likes the idea of attaching a paper to every printer sales like Staples does... they start doing it, don't like it, go elsewhere... pretty soon where else are you gonna go?

Exactly...

And no I am not trying to use those arguments to defend asking for anything from Dell but rather point out the flaws in the arguments being used in general.

 

The whole bioshock thing has been debunked

In this case he CAN leave it. This is a product he wishes to buy. If he wanted no OS or whatever he should get a Dell that can be configured to that.

And

See that's just stupid. Don't like the war in Iraq? Vote for people who wish to end the war.

Either way I agree with frazzel.

 

Well at least we can agree it's stupid, can't tell you how many times I hear it though...

But what if you do vote for people who don't want the war... and your person wins... but still doesn't get into office?

NM... that's WAAYYYY too OT

BTW I never thought securerom was a rootkit... it's just software that gets silently installed, doesn't go away when you install the program it came with, and forces itself to have elevated privelage on your system thus making it entirely possible for any number of nasty things to occur, intentional or not...

And to boot it was included with the demo of bioshock... which I can't figure out at all... but is the bain of many.

Nothing to debunk... it is secretive software that gets installed along with the game you bought... just like I said...

 

'tis not a rootkit. Sure it's secretive a tad but not a "rootkit"

Nothing like the crazy stuff that Sony was stuck in before

 

I used to love Sony... then I bought a Minidisc player... and a second one... then my PS2 laser crapped out... then my other PS2 crapped out... then they made the rootkit, then they made the PS3... me and Sony... we don't kick it no more...

 

Bottom line, stop trying to take advantage of things for personal gain.

If you're so tight for money, why are you buying a laptop in the first place? Shouldn't you be investing it in something a little more worthwhile, such as school?

Now go ahead and give me your hogwash answer as to why you "need" an item that the vast majority of the population does just fine without.

 

I've still got my giant boxy ps2 that was one of the first 100k shipped, and it works great! I'm not sure what the failure rate was on those lasers, but mine is fine. I love my ps3 too, just wish there were better games for it

 

I'm very amused that it's the guy arguing AGAINST a poster with "Soviet" in his name who is basically saying that to avoid "unfairness," everyone should get nothing back from Dell. Dell purchasers of the world unite- you have nothing to lose but your money!

Well, that don't make a lick of sense. Who the heck are you to tell us what Dell charges for and what they offer for free? Are you saying that if a feature is the default (i.e., no-upgrade) option, that means it's "free"? If I order the standard LCD screen or the lowest available CPU and it breaks, is it tough luck for me because Dell gave it away for free? There is a valid argument that if something is purchased as part of a bundle it cannot be returned. There is no valid argument that if something is purchased as part of a bundle it is "free." Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read your post. I award you no points, and may Microsoft have mercy on your soul.

 

That's not true.
I did ask for a laptop with no OS. No way siree.
I did ask for a laptop with Linux. No way siree.
I did ask for a laptop with no Windows OS. No way siree.
I did ask for a laptop with no Vista, but XP instead. No way siree.

Vista was shoved down my throat against my will.

There's no such an argument as "Go buy somewhere else", because there il little or no alternative to laptop with M$ preloaded in it. I dare yoou to find me a laptop lineup that cme with no OS and has the same specs and price range of the Vostro 1500. Perhaps in Burundu...
Another poster, in another thread, disappeared when I asked him to show me how much of a choice one can have. Let's see if you can come up with some sound alternative spec- and price-wise.

Yeah. Ever wondered how come that a laptop with Vista costs even less than a laptop without it? Strange indeed. It seems there may be some not so hidden agreement between MS and the laptop manufacturer to force Vista on their system. That's a de facto monopoly.

Talking about fairness: is that fair? I don't think so.
Is there a way out of this unfair situation? Yes there is. It is called EULA.
It a legal contract. It is not hot air. It is a written, legal agreement that bounds you the customer, Dell the manufacturer, and MS the software house.
Not only you. All the actors are bound by it.

And that contract states in clear, crisp letters that *you have the right to receive a refund, should you not accept the term of the contract.
And frankly I am surprised to see so many people willing to surrender a right, and calling thieves or foul-players those who are making the stand.

Maybe Orwell was not that far fetched visionary, after all.

 

Now, seriously, have you read what you wrote?
It's free but was paid something.
Make up your mind.

The cost of a good is a consequence of the costs of its parts and of the labour associated with its manufacturing.
The cost of Vista will show up in the final consumer price, that's a simple logical consequence (and no: Microsoft is not working for free).
And don't forget the added licence that came with it, since the OS is not Dell's property, nor yours. It's Microsoft's. MS simple lend it to you to use, provided you accept their conditions.

Should you not do that, the licence grants you the right to get a refund.

 

uhhh what?...

I didn't decide what Dell offers for free and what they didn't. Dell said they offered it to you for free... Your argument makes no sense... Dell will repair or replace the CPU or LCD under your warranty. You can't go to Dell and say "Hey my CPU is broken I want you to refund me the cost of the CPU as I saw it going for $300 on NewEgg". Dell would tell you the CPU was free more than likely or it is apart of the bundle price.

Even in court you would only be able to sue them for reasonable repair costs if they failed to honor their warranty. You couldn't sue them for anything more than what they charged you for the whole machine if it as a whole was ruined...

If Dell is getting such a good deal from MS that they can bundle Vista with the computer for free or they have such a high profit margin on the hardware they can absorb the cost of Vista then they have the right to do that. You can't, on your own, decide how much that copy of Vista cost you unless Dell charged you directly for it (as is the case with an upgrade from the base OS).

If you can't understand that then I don't think there is any helping you...

The arguments that others are making that there is no option of buying the laptop without Vista is a moot point. If you don't want the OS bundled with the machine then you don't buy it. I don't like iPODs due to the software requirements it has. I don't go buy an iPOD then yell at Apple because they don't make it as nice as I want software wise; I just don't buy one.

Same is true if I didn't like the look of the i1520, for instance. It would be silly for me to buy one then harp that Dell must give me a new one that looks like a Mac Book Pro, because I find them more visually attractive. I could have, and should have, purchased the Mac Book Pro. It isn't rocket science...

It makes sense that the laptops WITH Windows are cheaper than the laptops WITHOUT Windows... That is simple economics... Less demand = HIGHER price.

 

C'mon, fraz- you're getting a bit silly here. I won't try to pick on you too much other than to point out that you should really stop using this incoherent "free" argument. Yes, Dell sells a bundled product. No, that does not make any part of it "free." As I've said repeatedly, stating that you shouldn't be able to get a refund on part of a bundled product is a perfectly reasonable argument. Stating that part of a bundled product is "free" is not. My advice would be to stick with the rational "bundle" line of reasoning and avoid the downright silly "free" one.

 

Either way works the same... We really don't know how Dell prices the various components so we can't decide if it is FREE or a charge. I simply said free because Dell said it was free. Since they know their price structure they are the only authoritative source.

You might not like the word free used in this context (because Dell obviously had a cost to acquire Windows), but it is just as valid...

I can go to the store and buy a copy of Vista at retail cost and walk outside and give it to someone for nothing. That person can't then come back to me and say "Hey dude give me $500 because my apps don't work in Vista!"...

That is the same way I see Dell's stand and is why free is being used properly.

But I see now that many people are having problems with the word free (since they don't see Windows as being no cost) so I will try to use the word Bundle for the sake of simplicity.

 

Talk about a ridiculous argument, how about people taking some personal responsibility. Someone buys a laptop knowing full well the thing comes with Vista or whatever operating system. They go into an agreement with the seller for a particular product sold at a bundled price. No one coerced them to buy it, they knew what they were recieving. It doesn't matter one iota if they owned the operating system already.

 

What about me for example i averaly computer savvy but i wasnt a ware i had to agree to another seperate terms and conditions of the OS and the millions of others also dont so we been placed into a situation we couldnt of forseen and have right if we dont agree with it to ask for a refund.

As for it being free? does that mean the sound was free? the motherboard was free? the integrated graphics was free? all the other stuff that included in the base price is free? actually what the heck isnt free? apart from upgrades? seriously enlighten me if you select a base unit with no upgrades than surely its allfree? and im paying them $700 out of the goodness of my heart..

 

The agreement, for the OS part, is the EULA.
it is a document that can stand in a court room.

No one coerced Dell into signing an agreement with Microsoft saying they are bound to fullfill the terms of the EULA. They knew what they were signing. They could've gone somewhere else to get an OS, coudn't they?

It doesn't matter one iota if they say it was free, or was brought in by the cat. They must comply with its terms.

 

I go to Best Buy, buy a webcam I already own, get home decide I don't want two because, duh I only need one, go back to Best Buy, want a refund.

Is there a flaw there? I don't see it...

People are taking personal responsibility, they are protecting themselves against the abuse of companies who count on sheep to just take what is told to them and deal with it at the consumers cost. If the EULA did not have a refund clause in it, and someone asked for a refund, I would say you are barking up an empty tree, but as long as there is a clause that lays out the rule there is no reason to lambast someone for using that clause.

Again, whether you feel it's petty, stupid or self serving is not the point, it's whether it's within the rules to do so, and it is.

I saw a guy who went to the movie theater to watch a movie, he pulled a popcorn bag out of his pocket... one of the super sized ones that comes with unlimited free refills...

He had obviously bought it on a different occasion and was still using it.

The theater refilled it as it still qualified for unlimited refills...

The guy just saved $4.

Is that a lot of money? No. If $4 is a significant amount of money to him, should he be spending it on popcorn and movies? Probably not. Was he doing anything wrong? The theater said unlimited refills... so NO!

Petty, odd, stupid... who cares... it has no bearing on whether you are breaking the rules.

If you don't like how someone acts (I think it's tacky to pull a used popcorn back out of your back pocket) that's understandable... but it's one of the things you have to deal with for enjoying life in a "free" country (I live in the US and I hear no shortage of "land of the free" comments... everything has two sides. If you don't live in the US, unless your country prides itself on not being "free" then the argument still applies).

So again I say, if you don't like that the OP did this, then that's completely your right to feel that way... but to insult him and try to make up reasons that he is in the wrong is simply pompus and uncalled for.

 

The OP can return the laptop for a full refund if he doesn't agree with the EULA but again he KNEW it was coming with the laptop. And the OP did agree to the EULA and has no case. In fact if he is still with the return policy timeline he can return it and take is business elsewhere. End of story.

 

Yet another flawed argument... one option available does not negate others.

He certainly can choose to do that. It is an option. It is because it is written into the terms of sale that it's an option...

Just like the refund is written into the EULA of Vista...

Dell agrees to be a certified reseller of Vista, anyone who sells Vista must abide by the license provided by Vista.

As for agreeing to the EULA, again, agreeing once is not agreeing forever.

If I go into a store and want an apple but they say you must a loaf of bread with your apple, I may say that's stupid but I also want a loaf of bread, so ok I agree.

Tomorrow I to another store and want another apple, they say buy a loaf of bread, I say no, I already have the loaf from yesterday, I don't agree to the exact thing I agreed to yesterday.

Just because the EULA doesn't change doesn't mean circumstances around it's acceptance don't. I was perfectly fine with the rules and restrictions it put on my when I purchased my first copy of the item, those same rules and regulations are what keeps it from being interesting to me for a second purchase.

 

oh right so now its the customers fault and he has to wait 3 weeks to get the laptop than return it and wait a month to get refund because Dell didnt state that the OS came with EULA, oh i see your logic.

 

that doesn't even make sense. there is no issue with him wanting to return the entire product if he doesn't like it. the OP is just trying to game the system and return a single part of a bundled product for whatever value can be had. that's like getting a package containing two webcams for the price of one, then deciding you want to only return one of the webcams. the store only sees one price for the combination, and can't give you a partial refund.

Until Dell decides to sell Linux or OS-free laptops at a lower value, it's within Dell's right to say that the cost of the bundled Vista Basic is negligible or, for all intents and purposes, subsidized by Dell for your hardware purchase.

besides, something tells me this kid didn't happen to mysteriously find or legally purchase a legit copy of Vista Ultimate, but who am i to make accusations...

 

The OP knew that Vista Basic was included with the machine - that's not up for dispute because it's listed plainly both on the customization and order page. if he did not want the OS to begin with, this could've been rectified when he first placed the order by talking to a sales representative, or escalating it to someone who could remove it from the hardware. if they wouldn't unbundle the software, it's his choice whether to purchase the machine or not.

as far as what i can tell from the OP, he only wanted to 'return' the OS once he found out he could get some cash back. sucks for him.

 

It was in response to the argument that you shouldn't try to return something if you knew what you were getting when you bought it in the first place. I think the analogy shows quite directly how that's not true.

Until Dell decides to GO BACK to offering Linux and or no OS options I think they can count on people doing everything they have the right to do to get away from the forced bundled OS if it so suites the consumer.

His personal fortitude and software acquisition habits have no bearing on his right to exercisers his license agreements... but yeah, I would guess plenty of people out there are using Vista Ultimate without necessarily purchasing it properly...

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=2403386&postcount=72

That is what happens when you assume...

And he certainly could have chosen to go somewhere else... or he could choose to exercise his EULA rights and just ask for a refund... neither option eliminates the other.

I assume that's what you would have done, but it doesn't mean it's what he had to do.

 

There is nothing flawed about it, he ordered a laptop knowing it was coming with Vista. He booted up said laptop and agreed to the EULA on the system. Now he wants a refund. He has no case and no grounds for a refund. I agree that accepting once does not constitute to always but as I said this is not the case.

And he still may have the option of returning the latop for a full refund.

 

maybe i'm missing something, but it's the wrong analogy - it's his right to return the ENTIRE package, but it's something altogether different to break it down by parts and return it piecemeal.

http://www.dell.com/linux - the option has always existed, and it's within Dell's right to honor or not honor returns from suddenly recalcitrant Windows-based laptop purchasers who realize there's some now some coin to be had.

 

What ??? , good grief. He DIDN'T have to wait three weeks for his laptop. He could of cancelled his order and went elsewhere. He chose to wait!

 

If he agreed to the EULA then asked for a refund, then I missed that part, and yes you are right he has no grounds to ask for a refund.

I was under the impression he did not agree to the EULA and asked for a refund under the refund clause of the EULA.

 

unless i'm mistaken, that's not the original poster of this thread. then again, i might be hindered because i can actually read.

 

While you are at least partially technically right (I don't know if "chose to wait" really is a fair way to put it) the statement was made to address a point you clearly missed...

 

That's not the OP, that's someone who's actual experience negates your assumption.

Apparently you can read, but reading comprehension > you...

Sorry... that was petty and childish I don't really mean that... But I always wanted to say that and you so opened the door

 

that's all well and good, but all my posts refer to the OP and HIS statements. other people's experiences aren't relevant to my point/observation of the ORIGINAL POSTER. and just to point out one thing, since you seem to either be ignoring it or willfully pretending it doesn't exist -

http://www.dell.com/linux

btw, this page has been available for quite some time.

and if you want to start with ad hominem attacks, at least i have the ability to make a cogent argument.

 

I know that page has been around for a long time, I fail to see how it applies to this situation. Despite a request to have it, it was not made available for the purchaser.

 

WAAAAAHOOOOO WHOOOOOOO!!!!

Another barn burner!!!!

 

this might be a bit tough for you, so i'll spell it out for you -

here's what you type earlier -

so i link up this - http://www.dell.com/linux

Dell provides a means to order select laptops, desktops and servers with a Linux distro or bare, and has for quite some time. it's also very easy to find - type in 'dell linux' and it's the first link returned on Google.

it's up to the consumer to fully research their options before making a purchase, and they shouldn't expect to force Dell's hand after-the-fact because of their own ignorance or motives.

 

dear me, you said if he got the laptop which takes a week atleast 3 weeks atm than finds out that he has to agree to EULA and you said fine returnt he laptop which takes 30 days to get a refund. This is about any customer so your saying the customer has to give up time because Dell fails to inform customers that a EULA must be agreed to when you get the laptop. Dell is at fault simple as.