Over-saturation on Studio 1737 RGB LED

Colors are not correct on my Studio 1737 RGB LED, even after calibration with Spyder2Pro. Calibration adjusts the color temperature etc, so gray-scale images and documents are displayed correctly. But there is ridiculous over-saturation of colors. It just hurts my eyes.... Interesting thing though, inside ICM-aware applications (PhotoShop, LigthRoom) images are displayed correctly - just the image, program window itself and tools etc are over-saturated.

Several users had reported this problem in this forum, so it is known problem. Some were able to fix it with adjustment of saturation settings in ATI color control panel. Unfortunately, my notebook is equipped with Intel 4500 MHD integrated graphic card, and somehow saturation control is missing in "color Correction" tab of "Intel Graphics Media Accelerator Driver for mobile" .

I did set up Dual boot with Vista/XP and the problem is the same in XP. Futhermore, over-saturation it is noticeable even in BIOS and during Windows start up.

Is my LCD (RGB LED) panel faulty? Graphic card drivers are raw? Video-BIOS is messed up? I this fixable or not?

I spent couple hours on the phone with Dell Technician trying to solve this problem. No luck so far...

As of now, I am thinking of returning this laptop. Such color reproduction is just not acceptable, considering that I paid $250 for the RGB LED, expecting close-to-perfect colors.

If anybody has a solution for this problem, please let me know. Your advice would be highly appreciated.
Thank You!

 

I don't have the RGB LED screen, I have the WXGA - but I do have the 4500MHD and was very disappointed with the colours when I first got it.

I don't have the laptop with me at the moment so can't give you specific settings, but I managed to get decent results by adjusting the brightness and contrast of Red, Green and Blue individually through the 'intel GMA Driver' tool in control panel.

Set the backlight to about half way, then take a few points off the red, green and blue contrast values in turn. It took me a while, but I now have pretty good colour reproduction. From memory I think I have all values set down around 45 for contrast, possibly +1 or +2 on the brightness. Best bet is to get a few photos open while you're making the adjustments and make sure they look ok.

 

Thank you for your reply , hill79!

I did calibrate the monitor with Spyder2Pro. Compared to pre-calibration status color temperature /color balance is better. But colors are so unnaturally distorted, oversaturated.

BTW, if I do adjustments in "Intel Graphics Media Accelerator Driver for mobile", after I press OK to exit, colors reset to pre-calibration state (ICM profile gets discarded) and sceen gets that blueish hue.

 

Wow, is it just me who is so unhappy with this RGB LED screen? Or maybe I did get a bad screen after all.

 

Well this is just my opinion. You went all out and paid a premium for a higher grade screen but didnt go the extra mile for the video card. I think you may be a lot happier with a dedicated video card which would be the ATI 3650.
You can make color adjustments on the ATI control panel and get rid of the oversaturation. I initially calibrated mine with the Spyder 2 but then went back to calibrations that I did myself using the ATI control panel and have been very happy with the picture quality. It has about the same look at my Sony 17" Xbrite-HiColor notebook only the Sony seems to be more grainy.

You can make a return within 21 days to Dell and if you explain your situation they will email you a shipping label.

 

I am a bit unhappy with the 17 RGB LED on my 1737. I agree that on some programs the program windows are wrong colors tints etc but the image itself is correct.

Like my Google internet links normally Blue are a little too purple.

I thought the RGB LED would be better but I can't see how.

I have Calibrated the colors abit with Avivo 3650 Hue and Saturation.

But Black and Grey Levels are a problem like when Booting up the DELL screen is Dark grey, (should'nt it be Black ?)

But when I watch Transformers or a HD video 720p or 1080p the Blacks are satisfactory. Maybe because they are displayed against other colors and lighter colors.


I also think that it takes the Screen about a week or so to "warm up" and get some use under its belt before colors start to adjust.

But I am concerned in particular because If I look at my screen from directly Above looking down and left I can see what looks like a RED led light in there and above it a green one.

IS that how its supposed to be? Or is that poor build quality seeing behind the screen and internal componenets.? I don't think even on the cheapest HDTV's would you be able to see the internal LED or CCFL light emiting componenets.

I am suspecting this is contributing to my poor blacks like its not sealed up tight enough.

Good points are that the screen is very very bright even on half brightness its fully readable in bright sunlight or inside of a Starbucks reflections and All. And on Max brightness watchout you need sunglasses.

Maybe this is how Colors are supposed to be ? And we have been just use to lower quality colors on cheaper displays.?

For an additional $250 pop I expected beyond perfection, and all I have gotten is a bag of hurt.

And forget about asking DELL Tech support to fix your color accuracy, even on the highest level its so subjective telling someone 1,000 miles away your Blue color tint is not how you like it.

 

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/09/lg_to_produce_17inch_led_backlight_displays.html

RGB LED = much better

 

Sorry guys but nowdays it is very common problem..
I had HP Compaq 6730s with the same problem..
I know Dell Vostro 1710 with the same problem...
Even Sony has this problem...
This is just....I don't know what exactly...But it is not related to your video card for sure..
HP Compaq 6730s was with Ati HD 3430...
Dell Vostro 1710 was with Geforce......
So...

By the way I had non-stop headache and Eye hurt from my HP Compaq 6730s...I understand all you guys very well...and I so sorry for you

 

as I said in another thread, the majority of consumers wouldn't notice or care that their screens are over saturated or that theres a slight blue hue to the colours, they just accept thats how the picture is.

For those of us that are aware these things can be adjusted and have experienced a correctly set-up screen in the past, its blindingly obvious when something isn't quite right.

IMO, manufacturers won't spend time calibrating their screens correctly until more than a minority pick up on the fact the colours are way off. It seems crazy to me though.

 

hill79 my old screen on HP compaq 6730s was AU Optronics - well known for their "unreal bright screen issues"

"IMO, manufacturers won't spend time calibrating their screens correctly until more than a minority pick up on the fact the colours are way off. It seems crazy to me though." - Really SAD!

 

Are you sure it's the screen and not the Intel 4500?

 

I can guarantee you it is the screen!
As i said it is very common issue with different notebooks and models...

 

Regardless of the type of backlight they are using the notebook computers all use TN panels. Some are better than others. The RGB-LED panel is also using the higher color gamut which may take awhile to get used to for some people but it can be adjusted. I have had some notebook computers where the picture quality was not adjustable no matter what you tried.

 

I`m having the same problem with my Dell Precision M4400 with WUXGA RGB LED display. It`s unbelivable how colors are over-saturated. And I can not find how to reduce saturation level. View angles are bad comparing to my other laptop with CFL display.

 

If you have the ATI control panel it should be easy to adjust.
Have you tried that yet?

 

I have nVidia Quadro FX 770M, 512mb video card.
There is a slider "Digital Vibrance" in "NVIDIA Control Panel" that is already set to '0%'. It is very, very uncomfortable to work with such over-saturated colors. If I don't find a way to reduce saturation, this laptop will go back to Dell for an exchange.

 

I've grown very happy with the 17 RGB LED, I've now realized since it has such a huge color gamut range 98% to 105%, it will take some time to adapt from a standard PC LCD with CCFL.

The main problem is that there are TOO many color calibration options.

Right click if you have the ATI 3650 click on Avivo Video

and look at All Settings on the right theres a slider which is easily missed. and has everything you need.

Brightness
Contrast
Saturation
Tint
Color Vibrance
Flesh Tone


and above that theres,

Notebook Panel Properties.

And Color which has the Gamma Adjustment

all in all now that I've tweaked everything I am happy.


Also I played around with the colors alot, and brightness and contrast totally shifting it to left and right I guess that freaked out or self adjusted the panel after I hit defaults. Just make your panel look as weird as possible color wise then hit default, and then tweak.

 

Unfortunately I can not adjust Saturation with NVIDIA drivers. I've already searched google for a solution with no success. I can live with poor viewing angles, but over-saturated image makes my eyes tired after 30 minutes.

 

then I think this is Nvidia's fault not the RGB LED dsiplay.


because on some phtography forums people are going nuts trying to order systems with RGB LED displays is a photographer best wish.

I am not a photographer but I know what colors I like.

 

Same here, man!

On more user voiced his opinion on this topic

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&message=30472275
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=30460097

Briefly, latest version of calibration hardware and software is needed to properly calibrate wide gamut monitor. One of the options is Spyder 3 Elite
http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-mc-s3elite.php

Hmm......, another $250

 

Thanks for the links. Maybe that explains why I had to tweak the color settings after I did the calibration with the Spyder 2. Once the display gets calibrated the right way it will look good.

I guess that also explains why the displays on my home system also had to be tweaked after using the Spyder 2.

 

looks like Spyder 2's can not calibrate LED''s with such a wide color gamut 98% to 105%.

I will wait till some one uploads a color profile.

 

So does it mean that I can switch color profile and get 'normal' colors in all applications ? This would be a perfect solution for me.

I found some *.ICC files and added them to Color
Manager (Windows Vista 64bit). I tried to play with color profiles, however it does not seems to affect my colors at all. Can somebody please explain how to switch color profiles ? Do I need anything else except for the *.ICC file ?

Thanks in advance.

 

I gave up. Just sent it back to Dell for refund. Probably will order the same laptop but with another WUXGA screen. Or I will see if something good comes up on CES
Apparently, those RGB LED screens are wide gamut monitors. It is good for work in PhotoShop in Adobe RGB colorspace on a properly calibrated (w/ Spyder3Pro) monitor. But outside color-managed application colors will be shifted.

I really can't take it. Those colors annoy me and my eyes get tired really quickly. So for now I will stick with sRGB screens. BTW, I've tried Windows 7 Build 7000 Beta 1 on this laptop. It is nice and stuff, but color management is about the same as Vista's and I get those shifted over-saturated colors again.

On this page Dell mentions that those screens are wide gamut screen - "100% Adobe® Color Gamut" :
http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precnnb?c=us&cs=RC968571&l=en&s=hea



Check those links if you are interested wide gamut vs. non-wide gamut screens:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=30064410
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&message=25060360&changemode=1
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=24998798

 

Well Im sorry that it didnt work out for you. I still think you may have had better luck with the ATI card and control panel. I have mine adjusted and it looks great. I did also try the Studio 17 with the regular LED screen and sent it back. Also tried 2 different XPS M1730s with different screens and sent them back. Im keeping the Studio 17 with the RGB-LED because I dont think you will get much better with a notebook display.

 

Here's a question: the 1737 I purchased had the non-RGB LED WUXGA display, which the invoice described as WLED, but at the time of ordering and now, the configuration page for the 1737s did not make a specific reference to WLED for the standard WUXGA display, while for other resolutions it does. Is the other WUXGA option CCFL or WLED?

 

Which resolution did you get?

The 1440x900 has the LED or CCFL.
The 1900x1200 has the RGB LED or CCFL.

 

As far as I know on Studio 1737 WUXGA 1900x1200 screens are either CCFL or Wide gamut RGB LED

 

So will you be going with the CCFL then, Niemitz? I've been going back and forth on whether or not I want the RGB LED.

 

Let me disagree with that, because even if I paid $4,000 with RGB LED and NVIDIA Quadro FX 3700M, 1.0GB graphic card I would have the same issues I am having with mine laptop (RGB LED+Inrel 4500MHD)

There is a difference between great and correct colors. Great colors - is very subjective term, correct colors is not. That is why there are calibrators for monitors.

I totally agree with you on this one! It is the best screen available for laptops currently. Inside color-managed applications (such as Photoshop) on a properly calibrated RGB LED screens colors will be as close to reality as possible. But outside those applications,in Windows and other applications, colors will be shifted. They just don't know how to handle this RGB LED screen. Hopefully Dell or LG (manufacturer of RGB LED panel) will come out with solution for this (driver or specific ICC or ICM profile) in near future, or Microsoft will do something about it. BTW, on some high-end wide gamut monitors you can switch between Wide gamut and standard sRGB modes. So for most of everyday non-photo oriented tasks sRGB still remains the standard. And if you want to see the colors you were meant to see you have to stick with sRGB, for now at least.

Anyways, I need new laptop now, so I guess I will need to settle for WUXGA CCFL screen. Yeah, I did want the best screen possible, but in my case less expensive doesn't necessary mean worse. Just as good as I can handle ....

 

I totally agree with you, Niemitz. I also wanted the best screen available . I have already placed a new order for the same laptop configuration just with CCFL screen. Yeah, unfortunately nothing is perfect in this world...

 

I am not using the Studio within any color managed application.

Just to let you know I am very picky about PQ not only on notebook computers but also my home based. I use 2 Planar 26" IPS type monitors on my home computers which gives me a good comparison with my notebook screens.

I have been on a notebook search all year where the display is the most important to me. Actually the best I have had are older notebook computers which is the IBM T-43P with a 15" IPS type display and also the Fujitsu N-3010 with a 15" MVA type screen. You can no longer buy these on notebook computers. All of them are TN type screens. They stopped using them on notebook computers because they are too expensive. I wanted a larger notebook display and this is why I had been searching for the right 17" notebook computer.

A lot of people will not even like a properly calibrated display because the colors will not be that vibrant and this is even true on TVs. I think this is why the manufacturers get away with less than perfect computer/displays.

So it took calibrating the Studio 17 RGB-LED with Spyder 2 and then tweaking the settings with the ATI control panel which has a lot of settings to play with. I have it looking pretty close to where it is supposed to be. Yes eventually I will buy the Spyder3 Pro and see how that works. As I mentioned in a previous post I also have a Sony 17" Xbrite-HiColor (dual ccfl) and the Studio RGB-LED looks very similiar to this display. SO yes I think it is possible to get a decent non-LED display but this varies depending who manufactured the display. I had 2 different XPS M1730 notebooks with non-LED screens. One was manufactured by LG and the other one by Samsung. The LG was terrible with no color accuracy at all and could not be calibrated even close. The Samsung display was excellent. These were not wide gamut displays.

If you can live with an older 15" notebook computer look at the IBM T60P or T43P which use the IPS type displays. There are some other IBM models that use them too. Also some of the older Fujitsu N series use the MVA type panels. If you do a search you will see what I am talking about. The TN panels they use today will not even come close to the PQ on these older MVA/PVA or IPS panels. The larger IPS or PVA displays for home computers are the high dollar monitors because the PQ is next to perfect. THey dont make many of these anymore either because most consumers will not notice the difference and only go by low prices. The same with LCD and Plasma TVs. Most consumers are buying LCD type TVs over the Plasma because they are cheaper even though the Plasma has better PQ.

 

I am also very picky about colors, but people need to relax, in a few weeks pros will have color profiles out there.

The screen RGB LED is very new. And yes you will see slightly different colors part of that is because of its 105% NTSC Color Gamut. We are so use to 72% with TN LCD's for desktops and laptops.

I will admit colors were driving me nuts, Until I found the Saturation, Tint, Hue, Color Tone, Gamut setting in of the ATI 3650, which solved 90% of the problem. Otherwise I was sending it back ASAP, So I feel your pain.

The other 10% I attribute to the wider color gamut and Blacks are still not 100% black.

But Mainly I bought a Huge 1737 as a desktop replacement, and I use it with a HDMI to DVI cable output to my Samsung 22 LCD. and colors look normal and correct.

So I am satisfied with me 17" RGB LED. I did a side by side with my buddies, 15" MBP unibody he has LED. And it blows that out of the water.

For example on the lowest backlight brightess settings, the 17 RGB LED perfectly useable readable you name it and colors are even correct given that its on lowest brightness, Where as the 15 MacBook Pro is unuseable at lowest brightness.

Also on his MBP this site test shows Gradient banding where as my RGB LED is perfectly smooth.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php


But I would love to know what kind of Contrast ratio, and nts brightness Dell claims for the 17 RGB LED I can't find it anywhere, Not even response times.

 

Yes I tried the MBP 15" LED and the 17" CCFL and was not impressed with the picture quality or color at all. I got rid of them real fast. As expensive as they are they should have a more quality display panel such as IPS or PVA. Unfortunately this is not the case since they are using the same TN panel like everyone else.

 

although his speakers blow the 1737 away because they have a built in subwoofer.

 

I reduced the brightness for red, blue and green from 50% to 40% that helped alot!

 

You should check Sony's AW190 series. Having compared all RGB LED screens, Sony has what is by far the SUPERIOR panel. 18.4" as well vs. Dell's 17".

No color saturation problems with mine. Nvidia 9600MGT and Spyder3 calibrated. In fact, after calibration the difference is very minimal, which speaks to an already accurate color rendition out of the box. On my previous Dell's Inspiron 9400, the difference between calibrated and non-calibrated LG matrix is simply huge.

Cheers.

 

wish i had an RGBLED m4400 to compare next to my 2CCFL m4400 in real life. im curious to see the difference.

i dont really trust uploaded pictures because well, screens dont photograph well