Partition my Dell Notebook

Hello there!

I hope you can help me. I just bought a new Dell Notebook Inspiron 1520 with Windows Vista Home Premium. I want to create at least one new partition such as "Data". Furthermore I need a partition for linux.

I used the Vista Tool to shrink C by 50+GB (it wouldn' let me shrink it more. Why?) and tried to allocate the new space to a new partition called data. The currenct sitution and the error message is on this picture:
http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=datentverwaltungau9.jpg

(I would translate it like that: "there is at least one drive not having enough space to finsih this process"

As you can see I have 4 primary partitions and can't creat a further one.
1. What are the 110MB for? (Somebody told me it's for a diagnosis but can be deleted because it's on my Vista DVD.
2. What are the 2.5GB for? I have read it's important for some buttons and dell media direct to work
3. The recovery partition just includes an image from dell, right? I could delete it but would have to install Vista from the DVD on my own.

Vista would not let me to delete the 110MB with its tool and I couldn't find the option just to create a logical partition.

What would you recommend me to do? What disadvantages will I experience deleting partitions?

 

That is correct, you can only have 4 primary partitions.

Yes, Utilities.

Yes, MediaDirect, but deleting it can cause your MediaDirect button to do crazy things. Search this forum for threads on the subject.

Right.

If you need another partition, simplest thing is to delete the Recovery partition. But Windows will not allow you to move your main partition to the left (because this requires moving the boot tracks and data). Still, deleting one of four partitions will allow you to create another one. I am told that purchased programs like Acronis will allow you to move the OS partition to the left and use that 10GB..

If you need more than four partitions, you have to make the fourth partition an 'extended' partition and then you can put 'logical' partitions inside the extended partition.

I am not sure why you can't shrink the main partition beyond a limit, it may be because there is data there. Defragmenting the drive, using the option that all data should be moved to the start of the partition, may help clear up more space. But I have no specific experience so i am guessing.

 

What should prevent me from deleting the 110MB Partition with the utilities when I got them on DVD?

why does Media Direct need an extra partition of 2.5GB to work? I will do a search later on, when I have time.

Yeah maybe I should delete the recovery partition. As I have read in this forum it seems to be quite difficult saving the recovery partition on a dvd or something and getting it to boot later on.

I don't really want to purchase a program, but I am told that gparted does a good job, too. Have you heard of that one?
Unfortunately I was forced to read in their forum that manipulating partitions with gparted may require a repair with the Vista DVD.

 

GParted is great.

The only thing you might do that would require a repair would be overwriting the MBR, which is really easy to fix (2-3 min) with the Vista DVD.

 

Gparted won't move the OS partition to the left. I have tried it. I am not sure what the problem was, maybe thereis some trick to persuade it to do so. Repairing is not a big deal.

 

I believe that's for the MediaDirect software. Remember that you can use MediaDirect without logging in to your computer.

 

Good question. MediaDirect is designed to boot a mini-operating system; hence it needs its own partition and boot tracks. This partition cannot be easily moved either, because then MD will stop working and the Windows disk won't fix that.

It is an extremely complicated way to add a functionality of questionable value. It is OK to get rid of it if you do it right and don't create a situation where pressing the MD button by mistake causes problems with your partitions.

 

Ok, I think I got that with Media Direct all right.

But what should prevent me from deleting the partition with the dell diagnostics utilities?
If I delete the Recovery partition and actually do have to setup the system again, I would lose MD, right?

Why do all people talk about moving partitions to the left etc? It probably has something to do with getting useable space?

 

Actually the partition structure I believe is like this :

DELL Diagnostics (110 MB or so)
DELL Recovery partition
Your vista partition
DELL MediaDirect partition (2.5 GB)

So if you delete the Recovery partition there is some free unused space available between Diag and Vista partitions.... So you either need to create a partition there itself (which is not a good option) or move the Vista partition to the left and make use of all the unpartitioned space and create an extended partition... In this extended partition you can create a number of logical partitions without any problems... I hope this explanation is clear...

 

yeah right. I was thinking about Arcronis today. Maybe I should buy it...I heard it's possible to make an image with it and put it on a bootable dvd, is that right?

Please have a look at my not-answered questions above as well,
thank you all!

 

The first small partition contains the Diagnostics tools and also acts as the boot partition for MediaDirect as far as I can guess (since even if you install a clean MediaDirect on an empty hard disk it creates that small primary partition)....

And the OS files are contained in that 2.5 GB partition which is the mediadirect partition....

The one partition which could be safely and easily removed is the DELL recovery partition since you will be having the Recovery DVD from DELL containing the Vista installation which you can use for a fresh installation of Vista.....

 

If the small partition acts as the boot partition for MediaDirect it really is bad to delete it. If it would just contain the diagnostics tools, it could be deleted, cos I have got them on DVD, I would think.
So it is the best to remove the recovery partition. Is there any use in Acronis TrueImage? If I delete Recovery and move the partitions around, will there be any problems with the bootsektor of mediadirect?

 

Correct. It seems that Vista likes to occupy al least half the partition it is installed on.
Aulogic disk defragger shows data at the middle of the partition. Once it is resized to the maximum extent allowed by MS tool, the data appear at the end of the shrinked partition.

What defragmenting program offers such an option?
I'd like to give it a try. But neither MS, nor Auslogic's defragger seems to offer such an option.

BTW: I removed Media Direct's partition to create an extended partition.
I'll have to fix the Media direct button thinghy to make it boot Linux.

 

http://www.kessels.com/JkDefrag/

Highly configurable; and free.

 

sorry if I am getting on your nerves, but could you please tell me whats the best way to delete recovery?

1. Is there any way to save it, for example with acronis?
2. i could delete it with gparted
and then I would have to move the partitions around somehow...

 

You can copy the data over to a DVD if you think it will be useful at some point.

You can then delete the partition in Vista, from the same utility you used to see the partition map.

Or if you can use a 10GB partition, just delete the files and put other files in the recovery partition.

Moving the left side of the OS partition, to use the space left by the recovery partition or to expand the recovery partition, is not so easy. I couldn't get gparted to do it. I managed it using a convoluted method that I will not describe here. Maybe Acronis can do it, I don't know.

Shifting the right side of any partition ("resizing") is trivial, Vista will do it, but shifting the left side of the OS partition ("moving" the OS partition) is not trivial.

 

na, I can't really use a 10GB Partition. Well I could for linux, but I need one big extended partition so I can have some more logical partitions.
If I just copy the files from recovery to a DVD I wont be able to boot from it or something, right? I don't know how that usually works with the recovery partition but I would think Vista would give me the option to do it from that partition and that wouldn't work with the dvd, would it?

I will have a look at gparted tomorrow and see if I am able to figure out if it can move partitions to the left.

 

hi there!

I had a new idea today which I hadn't really thought of. What if I format the OS partition and create an extended Partition out of it?
Would I get problems with the bootsektor or anything when I reinstall Windows Vista in the extended partition?

 

You can create only one extended partition per disk and I believe mediadirect already uses an extended partition.... So you are out of luck there....

And dont confuse the Recovery partition with the Recovery DVD although they serve a similar purpose.... The Recovery partition contains a complete image of your hard disk which can be restored by pressing F8 while starting Win Vista.... This image is the stock image which was present when your laptop was delivered..... If you ask me this is just junk....

A clean install is always the way to reinstall your Vista and on the config of these laptops it hardly takes 15 mins or so max.... For that you use the Recover DVD with the OS which is nothing but a disguised OEM Vista DVD (probably slightly modded by DELL but not sure).... So you can ditch that stupid Recovery partition first....

 

Hi I have the same computer and a similar problem. I wanted both xp and vista so I ended up formatting the 2.5gb media direct partition and installed xp there and it works fine. The only problem is its 2.5gb. I shrunk my other partition so there is almost 10gb unallocated that i want the xp partition to use. Is there a way to do this? or do i need a program and if so what one? Thanks!

 

yeah u are right. gparted tells me it's an extended partition. so I am completely screwed...if I can't make an extended partition There is now way I can create one for data and one for linux, expect deleting dell media direct, what I do not want. Is that correct? I heard most people just delete the recovery partition, so they just got one partition with 10GB and that's it?

edit: @zipperdeaf: What happens when you push the Media Direct Button? Does it scew up anything? And MD obviously doesn't work anymore?

 

Wimme try converting the mediadirect partition into a primary partition - does gparted allow that ?

 

i do not know. but gparted lists 2 partitions in the extended partition. One is 1MB and the other one the 2.5GB.

very strange, what's the purpose of the 1MB here?

 

Some partitioning tools cannot fully partition the hard disk and leave 8 MB or so at the end as unused.... It might be something like that....

Is that 1 MB at the end or before mediadirect ?

 

Alignment to the beginning of a cylinder. It's normal, I think.

 

I pushed it and it brought up the start up wizard for MD, so im guessing its working. I would have no need for it though. Any thoughts on how I can grab those extra 10 gigs for my new partition? Thx

 

@zipperdeaf: yeah, I think gparted should be able to do it. delete the recovery partitions, if you dont need it, then you can move the os partition to the left and grab that space.

@everybody: I did the following with gparted:
1. I stole OS another 20GIG, so its 60GB now.
2. I moved the whole space 76Gig in the extended partition. I could now create partitions

My problems now:
- Dell Media Direct doesn't work anymore when notebook turned off. It gives me the error message: "Can't access hard drive". When notebook is on, it seems to work normal
- the media direct button and the on/off button switch functions. Very weird, you can't really tell what will happen pushing on of them (either media direct starts, or windows)
- gparted shows now, that all space is unallocated. obviously thats wrong..

when i get gparted to show me the structure again, i might try and move the 2.5gig back to exactly where it was before.

edit: gparted shows the correct partition table now. and the 2.5gig are at exactly the same position as before (the correct sectors). what other forms of identification are possible?

 

this problem has popped up a lo for people that repartitioned their dell and hit the MD button.

for some reason the MD button MBR erases the partition table when it can't find MD.

 

well the partition table is back. but still MD cant access the hard drive. I moved the MD partition around a bit to check and now I can't move it back (at the exact sectors) and MD gives me the error: "MD Partition missin"

 

With all the difficulty you're having, I would seriously consider shelling out for Acronis Disk Director or Norton's Partition Magic (which I have).

The GUI interface is quite easy to use and you can visually see by the extended graph how large your partitions are, what kind of partition they are, where they're located, what drive letter they have been assigned to, where you can move them, how you want them resized, etc...

It'll save yourself a lot of time and hassle.

 

this is off-topic, but i greatly admire your avatar lambchops.

 

it seems that my partition table is so messed up that I can't bring MD back to recognise its own partition. And I don't believe partition magic would help me there. But: Do you know if partition magic is able to move partitions to an exact sector?
I almost believe I have to format everything and start all over again. What would be the best way to format my whole hard drive and try a second time?

 

Don't know about an exact sector. Why? I've never had a need to do that.

At this point in time, it's probably a good idea to start all over. Back up any important documents you have, (I'd just transfer the files to a flash drive, temporarily) and reformat the whole drive all over again using your recovery disks and restore everything to the way it was before.

Then buy a good partitioning software like Acronis or Norton and visually/manually partition the HD according to your needs before you even attempt to install any distro. Both are good and I've found them much easier to use and manipulate than Gparted. I know Partition Magic 8.0 (yeah, it's an old version) even has an option to let you install another operating system and I believe Acronis has the same. I've been using it on and off for the last couple of years now and I've no regrets spending the $50.00 it cost me.

Just follow the suggestions others have given you in this thread as far as what you can (or can't) delete and how big the sizes should be. Then you'll know exactly where you'll target the distro install when the time comes.

Now me personally, I'd blow Vista off the machine altogether and turn it into a Linux box. Maybe you can't do that, I don't know, but that's up to you.

The only way I'd dual-boot is with another Linux distro or with XP, myself.

 

Nice program, nice license.
It is now my default defragger.

It does not move all the files, though. There are some "MTF" files that still resist at the end of the partition even though I specified the correct -a option (I guess it was #5) to move them all at the beginning of the disk.
I discovered that the big chunk of data in the middle of the hard disk was the System Volume Information data. I disabled system restore and got rid of it.
If it weren't for those few MB at the end of the disk, I could shrink the volume to 20 GB only...

They are probably files in use by Winduh and so can't be moved.
I'd really like to meet the developer who chose to place those unmovable files at the end of the partition. I'd really like to shove his keyboard up... well, you know.. there.

 

as i said somewhere before gparted offered me to shrink C to 28GB I think. So thats not bad.
As to me, I think I really have to start all over again, unless I find out how to tell MD where to boot from and how to access the hard drive.

But even if I set everything up again, I am not really sure how to do this.
With the MD DVD I could create the Diagnose Utility Partition and MD partition. Then it would let create me C: and a data partition D:

So I got 4 now, the MD partition very likely being an extended. So one (for linux, which I want to install later on, but would like the partition for it now!) is still missing.
And here I would be stuck again. Unless I manage to move some space in the extended and will be able to create a new partition there without confusing MD. For this, I believe, I absolutely can't touch the MD partition and probably even the OS which might work.
I still need to know how MD identifies its partition and what happened, when my MD said it could not access the hard drive.

 

Hmm the MD partition is quite tricky if you ask me.... I do not know why DELL went with such a stupid constraint for the MD partition to remain as the only logical partition in the extended partition....

I can suggest you try this perhaps :

Try to get some free space right before the last partition (i.e the extended partition).... Then try to merge that space along with the extended partition and create logical drives in that space which you make use of for your linux partitions.... I do not know if gparted allows for such an operatipn but I bet Acronis or partition magic will be able to do that....

 

If I understand you correctly you are saying that should get some space before the last partition and allocate that space in the extended partition (as I said above).
I could then create logical partitions.
Yep, thats right, but thats what I did before. And I am not sure why it confused MD and what to do against it. I believe MD and OS can't be moved, the first sector has to be the same.

if you believe this then everything above would be worthless, wouldnt it?

 

Ok wimme I found one info from this thread :

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=559378

Type this command after booting from the MD3 CD :

setupmd /diskno=xx /logno=yy /type=87

where xx is disk no (first disk 0), yy is the logical partition where mediadirect is installed (first logical partition is 1)

 

I had already used gparted to create he ext3 partitions. But I am somewhat reluctant in letting it touch existing NTFS partition. I am afraid that Bill might have placed some poisoned fish to lure the penguin .

I wil try that as the last option, should I not find a way to move those files at the end of the partition.

You should keep in mind that:
1) Mediadirect requires a primary partition
2) Linux and data do not require a primary partition and can thus be placed into the extended partition

So, here what you need:

1. DELL diag partion, (disk0,partition1, primary)
2. VISTA partition, (disk0, partition2, primary)
3. DELL MediaDirect partition (disk0, partition3, primary)
4. EXTENDED partition
   • Linux ext3
   • Linux swap
   • FAT32 for data exchange
   • One or more NTFS data partitions
   • One or more EXT3 data partitions

You can do it, if you don't keep the recovery partition.
Just delete every partition but the first diagnostic one, and then rebuild them from scratch. Once you have the partitions all set, install Vista, then install media direct and fix the MBR (still doubts on how to do it), then install Linux and tell it to place grub into its own partition (and NOT in the mbr). Last thing you need to do is to use EasyBCD to add an entry for Linux to Vista's bootloader.
In this way you will have the diagnostics of DELL, Mediadirect booting from the button, a standard boot that will give you Vista's bootloader that, in turn, will let you choose between Vista and Linux.

It can be done, man.

 

@Sredni Vashtar - one thing about MediaDirect is it does not give you an option to install itself in any primary partition we would like it to (if it had been like that it would have been really nice)....

So what we can try to do is find out what really happens at the background of the 1st stage installation of MediaDirect and probably alter that process to get the MediaDirect button working....

 

Oh. I got it all wrong then. Fact is that I have no interest in multimedia and so I've read a bit superficially the instructions on how to reinstall it. In fact it seems one has to install MediaDirect after Vista (I think this is because the installation procedure will also add the in-Vista program).

But then, what does

setupmd /diskno=xx /logno=yy /type=87
where xx is disk no (first disk 0), yy is the logical partition where mediadirect is installed (first logical partition is 1)​

do?

There is also a command rmbr that can specifiy the disk and partition where MediaDirect was installed. It seemed to me that Mediadirect can be installed into any (primary) partition the user sees fit.

Hmmm, installing media direct with setupmd and then fixing the MBR with rmbr won't work?

 

Hmm I dunno what rmbr does either just as what setupmd does as I do not have the laptop with me as of now to test all of these.... I can find it all out probably after a week from now and get you updated....

 

hi!

that command you quoted from the ubuntu forum, I don't even know where to enter it If I boot from the MD3 CD there is now command window, is there?
And I don't really know what this command would do. Do you really think MD would boot then?

but it sounds interesting...
also geexbox (link in ubuntuforum) seems to be interesting, even though I don't know how to link it with MD button..

 

Linking Geexbox with the mediadirect button is a tougher task and let's probably keep that as our next adventure may be....

I think when you boot using MD3 cd you get any option in the starting to exit or something like that ?

 

yeah yeah, i know now. you have to press "q" first, then you are able to give md3 commands.
I chatted with this guy called "SilverDarkness" now a couple of times, and 2 days ago it destroyed my MBR etc
Well, at least the commands he knows are changing something. I think, with a lot, lot work and background knowledge one would be able to figure out a lot of stuff.
For example:
Put in the md3 cd while in Windows. Go to the cd in "dos", then in folder "dellkit". Enter: "md3utils /mapmd3" and you will be able to see your MD partition in the explorer. And then: Find out some cool stuff and let us know!

 

hey wimme. were you able to fix your issue. please share how! i have the same problem