So has Dell just abandonded the mid/high end?

So the Studio 17's been updated...and...?

Supposedly some 16" model's coming this month? But...where is it? And if it really comes, will the hardware be anything special, or just more low end GPUs?

*sigh* I'm sort of considering a Sony (if I could figure out which model AW actually has an LED backlight) and Macbook at this point :-/

 

Ehm...what about precisions? High-end?

 

Sort of, I guess. Okay so I was talking consumer stuff

The Precisions don't work for me as the high end one (at least when I try to configure it) doesn't offer an LED backlight or Blu Ray. I guess the GPU is really an 8800GTX variant though, and would function like that if you just install normal Geforce drivers (?)

 

I think you haven't looked at Dell's website closely enough; most of the major laptop manufacturers offer high-end machines, while *all* of them offer mid-level machines. Seeing as Dell is the 2nd biggest laptop maker, I think you should look again.

 

Check the m6400 Covet...RGB LED screen and all you could ever want really...it just costs a shedload of money but is as high-end as it'll get
What GPU do you mean btw...the FX 770M is based on the 9600GT

 

No wolfpup I hear you. The good GPUs don't seem to be availible on the inspiron or studio models at the moment. A 256Mb 3450? 128Mb 8400GS? C'mon Dell the integrated graphics can almost spank those cards now. Where is the value added?

Would be nice to see at least mid range GPUs show up for these models. Where did the penryn go for the inspiron 1420 also? What gives?

 

Believe me, I know exactly what Dell offers. The only consumer system left that could be considered high end is the 1730, and it still hasn't been updated, and still doesn't offer an LED backlit screen I really just want that, with the new chipset, a single Geforce 9800GTX, and an LED backlit screen. Is that too much to ask?

They CLAIM they offer an LED backlight, but the configuration pages I've seen don't actually let you select it. Plus no Blu Ray, plus I'd need to be 100% convinced that the Quadro that's the equivalent of the 8800GTX would really work and perform just like a normal 8800GTX if you install normal drivers.

Yeah...I mean a Radeon 3650? A Geforce 8600GT? Heck, if you want 15", the Studio 15 maxes out with a 3450! You've got to bump up to the 1730 to get a decent GPU.

 

It is really sad that the hghest GPU in a consumer DELL laptop is the 8600M GT which is outdated. The XPS 1730 is too expensive and everybody don't have fat pockets to afford it.

 

I hate to say this but I agree, they're obviously getting rid of high end. M1730 is slowly meeting its demise and the new alienware 17 inch has kinda confirmed it for me

 

They are pushing the high end toward Alienware, they just launched a new model for AW, but it is still meh. The new models should show up next week as far as we have heard.

 

I hate alienware's stuff. I mean from what I've heard, they have terrible support, poor designs, iffy reliability, and bad build quality...all at higher prices! Wow, what a deal!

And that new notebook they have still doesn't have an LED backlight. Plus the 1730 looks about 1200 times better (not that that's a big deal to me, but still...that giant alienhead is so 1996...)

 

i have to agree... AW stuff looks like you just walked out of a toy store...

 

Yeah, though honestly I'd look at that new model *IF* it had an LED backlight

 

Dell has abandoned me.

 

Well...I guess in another week or two we'll know for sure? I'm not holding my breath though

This is weird, Dell's ALWAYS been on the cutting edge, both in technology and release dates...until this year (or arguably last year).

 

Don't know about the led - but I think its pretty clear what direction they are going. If the economy was strong and they could sell 4 to 5 K 1730's with QuadCore's I'm sure they would. The only problem even with this scenario is they would be competing against themselves. In my opinion AW from an M&A standpoint is a complete failure.

 

Something's definitely up with Dell. Now's not the time to relax.

 

What's M&A? I guess they are dumping people over to Alienware...but the problem is a lot of us want a Dell, not an Alienware

You mean something good? Like they have something coming?

 

M&A: Mergers and Acquisitions. Alienware was acquired by Dell in 2006. I agree Dell's overall global presence is much more pronounced than Alienware which has online stores in maybe 8-10 countries.

 

Yeah, I don't quite understand why they did that, and I wonder if that's actually working for them. I'd still buy an XPS 1730 over anything Alienware has.

There's this weird thing that these companies seem to think people who play games or otherwise want high-end hardware want these gaudy designs or don't care about anything except flashy lights or something

*Sigh* Well, I guess if Dell doesn't do something soon, I'm stuck either getting a Macbook Pro, or a Sony VGN-AW160 or 170 with LED backlighting. I'll even have to buy my own copy of Windows with either of those :-/

 

According to the press, WSJ (Wall Street Journal) included the acquisition was in the "NOISE"- IE Dell did it because at the time there was similar consilidation in the PC sector - see Falcon NW etc... For the price of the acquisition it was somewhat of a no-brainer to eat your competition ( in this case competition only in a very small niche - high end laptop/desktop) -- but they should do what other large industry leaders do -- that is KILL the AW brand and FOLD the R&D/Technology/Staff into Dell's already solid XPS division.

Instead of trying to INTEGRATE they have done the opposite from what I can tell. Perhaps with the economic downturn Michael Dell will take another look or his board will force him to - either way from someone on the outside looking in it seems pretty obvious that Dell needs to build on the XPS brand - not Abandon it!

 

Falcon Northwest wasn't bought by anyone, were they?

At any rate, yeah, I'd rather they just use that brand on Dell systems...though having Dell on my system means a lot more to me than having a big alien head...

Dell's always been competitive at the high end for desktops and laptops. I'm used to it now, but I didn't even like the XPS stuff when they made that a separate brand as it just let them raise prices...but I still will take it any day over "Alienware"

Geez...just give me an LED backlight, an updated chipset, optionally a quad core CPU, and a single Geforce 9800GTX on either the 1730, or something built and designed as well as the 1730!

 

Such a pitty they are getting rid of the high end xps, and substituting with Alienware - The current Alienware's look so dull, ugly and down right awfull that honestly you'd be embarrassed to be seen with one.

You'd think given the 3-5000 price tag, they'd put more effort into having a stylish appearance, not like the current square box trend that they have going on.

 

Meant to say Voodoo - not FNW.

 

Yeah, I guess Voodoo is gone? I just went to their website the other day, and they only list two systems. One of which is this ultra over-priced low-end 13" notebook. I don't know who the market is for that. You can get something better for half the price.

Also that Voodoo design stuff they do is creepy I think. I wouldn't want one just based on that.

 

While I was thinking that my next computer is going to be another custom built rig (SOO much more performance per dollar) I can say that if I do go laptop again, is sure as hell won't be an alienware!

Sorry to any fans, but I have always hated the basic look of the things. They seem cheap and gimmicky. High performance or comparable hardware is everywhere these days for the most part, so it is going to take a lot more than a weird case to pry me away from thousands of dollars. Add alienware and Dells legendary "customer service" - if you want to call it that - I will pass on that.

I wonder how that sager company is doing these days. HP is looking better by the minute, for lack of a better alternative. I wish that ASUS and MSI were more readily available in my area.

 

I'm going to put my thoughts on the issue, and structure of power.

inspiron-netbooks
studio-low-end (8400m gs, 1440x900, poorly built, the value competitor)
(NEW)Studio XPS (9600m, 1680x1080, better built, the mac competitor)
alienware (the gaming segment, mac's pro section competitor)

I personally think that AW is going to be dropping a 14.1" notebook as well as another 15.4". They're probably going to have the X series (m15x) for the ultra high-end, and the normal M series for the normal high-end. I'm also predicting the AW head soon becoming an option.

Remember that XPS was originally the "gaming/sort of professional" segment of dell, and AW is the new XPS. Gamers usually want something with large amounts of lights and a flashy case. graphic artists always knew to buy the professional laptops from dell, and that XPs was the consumer brand. Dell looks like it's trying to blur the line between prosumer and consumer with new designs for their business laptops, trying to get people to use all of their sub-brands.


You may think that dell is leaving out a certain niche of the market. a multi-million/billion dollar corporation will always attempt to get as many laptops sold, and they'll be ****ed if they forget someone. Keep faith, they spend a lot of money finding out what the people want.

 

If gamers/high end users want flashy, lots of lights "look at me!!!" type laptops then why has Alienware been pulling the skullcap and trying to push Ripley in their recent designs. Reason: Not all customers want to look like a pubesecent teenage computer nerds.

Its just embarrasing. There's no way you could pull out any of their laptops in a meeting with clients. You'd look very unprofessional. Why can't they come up with stylish impressive designs?

As regards "Finding out what customers want" I think you will find few of dell's previous high end customers will make the switch to Alienware, Unless they become much more competitive with regard to pricing.

 

Ha - back in the day I was at many meetings where folks pulled out M51,s ... the rule was to wait for the clients to pull theirs out before I'd pull out my Green M51. But today I know what you mean as I would probably not even pull out my 1730 at a meeting. I usually travel with a super light laptop that is used for meetings and leave the big laptop in the hotel room.

 

I just think when you're paying a lot of money for an impressive laptop, that it should look impressive too, not gaudy and plasticy like the idea came from a comic book.

Even if they gave a second choice of case (same internals and screen with a different wrap around outside) that was more refined looking, I'd be a lot happier.

 

they do, it's there professional line. They have decent graphics cards in some of them.

Most of the gamers in the world DO want something extremely gaudy. I'm not talking about "oh, every once and a while I like to play games to relax", I'm talking about 8 hours a day, ultra high settings gamers. I bet that you don't demand the best settings, so alienware isn't really targeted towards you. You probably would be happy with the graphics design laptop dell makes for professionals.

Alienware produced ripley on one laptop, and it was for the reason I said; do the consumers like the skullcap design, or do they want something else?

The Alienware laptops really do look impressive to some. Gamers spend a lot of money on those laptops, they want it to get more looks than anyone. That's the reason why when everyone makes a computer, they don't just buy a standard dell tower case. They buy some cool looking one. Most business professionals want something understated, and that includes you. But that's the reason macs (In my opinion) started selling so well to teenagers, It was the one that got a look from everybody in class.

 

You've slightly mis-understood me, I don't mean to imply that nobody wants a fancy "wings attached and the bathroom sink too.." type laptop, obviously not. Nor do I wish to imply that I want an understated boring looking laptop - far from it.

I'd like to have the option of buying an impressive looking laptop, one that I'd get comments like "Wow his laptop is sweet looking" as opposed to being singled out with people going "What a sap - Computer Nerd!"

Which I assure you would happen if I pulled out such a laptop during a lecture - despite the fact my course is filled with the most nerdy, computer literate people in society.

I'm not advocating the dumming down of appearances, I think more effort should be put into elevating the laptops appearance -Take Alienware's last four releases (in particular the m17) they all have the appearance of a square box, totatally un-imaginative and to cap it off, they stick the same scullcap and alien head design on top as they've been using for way too long now.

BTY sorry for the really long post

 

I see what you mean, so understated yet overstated like the MBP?

I agree, the AW designs are exactly the same. That's what I meant, you want something that is eye catching without looking extremely gaudy.

 

Exactly.

(Not sure what MBP is?)

 

I love games, and I don't like gaudy I don't mind it-I mean looks are REALLY low on the totem pole for me, pretty much dead last, but all things being equal (which they never are...)

*sigh* Where are the new laptops Dell? I literally have $4500 sitting in my checking account, saved up for ages to have enough for any possible laptop, and no one will release one that really meets my needs

 

I know the feeling! I've been waiting for whatever dell will release since summer. Hopefully it will be worth the wait...

 

Used to get all kinds of Questions going through security with this One... Recall it being in the 4.2K range... actually have a blue one with identical specs... I'm all for laptop's that get noticed and for ones that get lost in the business mix. Dell used to offer both - but if they get rid of the 1730's they have no bling at all.

 

macbook pro.

 

I think the 1730 looks nice, always have. I mean I *LIKE* that it's fairly big, as from what I've heard it's actually designed so that it can be pushed hard. Besides gaming, I *WILL* run Folding at home on every available CPU or GPU in a system, and I think systems like the 1730 are actually designed for that.

But it looks nice-I mean you notice it, but it's not ridiculous with huge flames or alien heads or whatever

Plus I honestly think it's better designed and built than an Alienware ever has been, though I could be wrong. But I've never heard of any widespread issues with them, and they get bought by people who really push their hardware.

I just want an update to it!

 

Its always more about the hardware than the aesthetic with me. Everything that I have to touch and look at everyday should feel solid and quality however. But I honestly do not intend on absing the computer any more than occasionally lugging it to different destinations in a padded bag. So I say, cut back on the gimmicks and give me some hardware that rules!

Oh yes, and I hate to say it, but I seriously see computers in the lofty 3-5 thousand dollar range as often having a really crappy price to performance ratio. There is just a point always where the maximum capability of hardware and the demands / capabilities of software come to a head. That's why I would rather see machines that are more easily upgradable, as opposed to costing more at the point of purchase.

 

Yeah, I mean for notebooks sometimes you just have no choice though.

If Dell doesn't come through here, I'm seriously considering Sony's VAIO AW190 "Premium". I'm not 100% sure it actually has an LED backlight though, and I have no idea if their warranty is any good.

This is just ridiculous though. I was hoping at least Dell would put a better GPU in the updated Studio 17, but no such luck.

 

Have you considered the precision M6400 Covet? Its built like a tank and you can get an X9100 proc, RGB LED LCD, 4gb of DDR3 and a 1gb 3700M graphics card for about $4500.

 

Wolf - have you ever experienced Sony support? I will never buy a Sony again after a terrible business experience back in the 'day'. They have possibly gotten better but Dell is TOP for me due to warranty and support. If Dell did not have the complete care warranty I'd be much less a fan of Dell.

 

Thanks for the suggestion! I'd seen that, but couldn't figure out how to configure it with the LED backlit screen...but I guess that's the "Covet" model that always has that.

That looks very tempting. My ONLY two issues are:

-Can you force install Geforce drivers on there and have that Quadro 3700 behave just like a Geforce 8800GTX? ie it'll run the Geforce drivers and think it's a Geforce, and games will run like normal on it?

-Blu Ray...no Blu Ray I *guess* using a $130 external Blu Ray drive solves that? I'm unclear on whether at some point USB is going to be considered "unsecure" and not allow full resolution...that whole situation is unclear.

-Okay, actually I should ask about support. Would I have an issue getting support since I"d have to buy this through Small Business instead of the Educational department?

(I should maybe start a new thread asking all this.) Hmm...that sucker is potentially REALLY tempting. It's close to what I've wanted them to do with the XPS 1730! Hopefully it can stand up to being pushed hard-ie running Folding @ Home whenever it's on...maybe on all four CPUs AND the GPU!

And...this is nuts of me, but if I got one, I think I'd get it with the Quad Core CPU, even though that's an extra nearly $800

No, I've never dealt with Sony's support. I've heard lots of bad things about Dell's lately, but at least I know and love their support forums and can probably get an issue resolved if I really needed to.

I guess that means if I do get that Sony, I just skip the $500 4-year warranty and hope for the best (?)

 

I am not sure about laptops, but generally speaking, you DON'T buy quadros for gaming. I believe it is primarily a driver issue, however it is also designed to do a different job.

No Blu-Ray . . . . meh. I am going to hold out for more speed and . . . BURNING! At an affordable price that is. Get a PS3 instead!

One thing is for sure. DEFINITELY get a quad core if you get the precision. That would make you super cool in my book.

Unless we can verify that quadros can game, I would stay away from it however.

 

They can and pretty well too (quadro fx3700m has more stream processors clocked at higher speeds than a 9800gtx) generally its just a case of changing settings. Quadro's are set for quality above performance. So you'd have to find some tweaked drivers too.

 

Does anyone know if you can just force-install the reference Geforce drivers and have the GPU show up and behave like a Geforce 8800GTX or something along those lines?

I'm very unclear on that, and also unclear if there's actually any hardware differences that would make it worse for my purposes, or if the "bad" stuff is all just the Quadro drivers, and Geforce drivers would solve everything.

Hee hee. I just...don't two CPU systems feel anemic for the last year? I mean sure they usually get the job done, but...geez, the more CPUs the better

And I have a Playstation 3 (and...uh...every other gaming system ) but I want to be able to watch Blu Ray discs I rent or buy everywhere, not just at home.

 

excuse me, but educate me... why do you want a bluray on a laptop?

basically, double your laptop to be your bluray player when you hook it up to a TV?

 

No, I want to be able to watch movies/shows I rent/buy anywhere, not just at home.

 

ok... i've been to bestbuys and BlueRay on display on one of thems 50" TV's really stopped me in my tracks...

but is BlueRay on a 15.4 or 17" screen really that much more noticable?

Edit:
btw bro, i'm not being an arse about your blueray need... i just want to learn...