Studio 1737 can upgrade to Q9000?

kind of curious,

can the P8600 processor in my 1737 be upgraded to a quad core? I do some video encoding and it is still a bit slow.

 

It's possible, but maybe less than probable. Assuming you have the newer Studio 17 revision with a 45-Series chipset (and I think you do, since it's a 1737?), your chipset officially supports all Socket P processors (including the Q9000), but your BIOS may not support it and your power circuitry may not be beefy enough to handle the extra TDP.

It's really unscientific, but the best way to test compatibility in these situations is to try it for yourself, or search for others who have done the same upgrade (was unable to find anything on Google). In general, I'd say no, but there's a guy running Core 2 Extremes in an Inspiron 1720, and those have the same TDP as the quads.

 

Words of wisdom from the good Commander.

Just buy one from someplace that has a good return policy, and try it for yourself. Make sure you update to the latest BIOS revision before you try.

 

Yeah, that's a good call. If you're in California, you can try Fry's as well. As bad as it is, I've bought a few things from them just to try out and return. They'll usually take stuff back with little or no hassle (just watch out for doodads that fall outside the usual return policy). Dunno if you can actually buy a Q9000 there, though...

 

For the record, I've never seen any mobile processors in an actual store. Out here in Ohio we only have Micro Center, but from what I hear it's very similar to your Fry's. They've got desktop dual-cores and quad-cores out the wazoo, but they have a sadly limited range of notebook parts.

 

thanks for the advice.

the 45W and 25W does seems to be a big difference.

I am wondering if anyone has done it before. To confirm if it is possible

 

I know for a fact that it can handle at least 35W, since the Txxxx processors draw that much.

 

if dell had supported a new BIOS that identify quad CPUs it is possible.
also if your system has not two separate cooling system it's not recommended. however if your system runs cool (about 40 or 50 C ) u can do that upgrade.
also notice about that your cpu heat sink has harmony with quad core or not, as quad core CPUs needs two smooth contact with heat sink

 

These heatsinks have plenty of surface area for dual-die processors (quad cores).

I can confirm that the Studio's power circuitry can handle 45W; someone got theirs working with an X9000 Core 2 Extreme. It's only dual core, but draws 45W just like a Core 2 Quad. So, the only possibly limiting factor here is the BIOS support. And unfortunately, there's really no way to determine that other than actually putting in a quad-core and seeing if it runs.

 

we are 50% there solving this, we know the hardware is compatible physicaly and power TDP wise. The easiest thing to do know is find out which BIOS version you have name and version. And see if that BIOS is compatible with the Q9000, and thats it. Because remember there must be BIOS support for it to work too.

All you need then is some high quality Artic Silver and a Q9000, now that Core i7 is out you can find one new for about $200 to $250.

4 Cores at 2Ghz each that should be nice

unlike the Core i7 that needs to shut down 2 core to then boost the other 2 Cores to 2.8Ghz, So you only have 2 Cores

Not loving the Core i7 now I am waiting for Arrandale and Sandy Bridge

 

yes it runs with 45w TDP but at which condition? cool or like MSI GT628 at 90 degree centigrade?!
yes , i excited about nehalem too but it has something to find about,and i agree to wait for arrandale and sandy bridge,they must be better and coming soon too

 

But isn't arrandale only going to offer 2 cores (4 threads) link? Still, will be plenty for a lot of people - seeing that the vast majority don't go for quad cores in the consumer market anyway.

 

Arrandale will offer 2 cores at 32nm and a 4 Core 32nm version, both should be way faster than any Core 2 Duo, heck the slowest 2 Core Arrandale 32nm I bet would smoke a Core 2 Quad 45nm

for a few reasons, Speed, L3 cache, Turbo Boost, Hyperthreading, TDP low power effciency. So even a 2 Core 32nm Arrandale is seen as 4 Cores because of the Hyperthreading.

the current 45nm Core i7's will have a very short cycle,
the 32nm Versions will have a very long life cycle Intel even said probably longer than Core 2 Duo, and they may need to delay 22nm Sandy Bridge mainly to give 32nm Core i7 lots of time for success, more than Core 2 Duo.

which sucks because 22nm Sandy Bridge should finally really give us all, that 6 hour battery life minimums along with 32nm GPU's or 22nm GPU's DDR3, USB 3.0.


Look how long Core 2 Duo has been at 45nm die lithography, where as Core i7, mobile will spend just 1 cycle at 45nm, and quickly change to 32nm. even for desktops.

 

Where did you get this information, as I was only aware that Arrandale would be 2 core / 4 thread.

Depends what you are doing. Single core performance then yes most likely, but if you are using something that can use all four cores of the C2Q then I think it would be a close fight. Hyperthreading 4 threads onto 2 cores is nowhere near as fast as running 4 threads one on each core; but then there is an expected 22% speed increase due to the 32nm process over the 45nm process. I think your comment though is far to generalised. Not sure how turbo boost would work on a two core machine; it still has a thermal envelope the CPU needs to stay within, so if you were running at max capacity in terms of core / thread usage then I doubt turbo boost would kick in.

In reality the real bonus of moving to 32nm Arrandale will be in terms of power savings. Ultra lights are going to love the new chip, whilst I suspect gamers and professional users might either opt to stick with the 45nm Clarksfield until Sandy Bridge happens - and who knows when that will take place or possibly the top of the range 620M Arrandale. Eventually Clarksfield may make the transition to 32nm though.

 

I am pretty sure Arrandale will be Quad Core 32nm and kick major but.

By this time next year, the Studio 17 will have 32nm Arrandale's Quad Core,

sure theres a 2 Core Arrandale somewhere 32nm die but probably for ultra slims pr portables.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10317959-64.html?tag=untagged

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/guide-to-intel-chips/


32nm Arrandales will be the long life cycle as the Penryns that went through many cycles, Santa Rosa, Monteviniea etc.

 

So far that last link you gave is the only one I've seen that suggests Arrandale will be available in quad core flavour - and I think that link is incorrect. As I said, we may eventually see clarksfield move to 32nm; whether they will give it a new name or not, I don't know.

Arrandale has other advantages, such as more instructions being added to the CPU, on chip graphics controller and of course smaller die size which should result in lower price.

 

It Works! I used this forum to base my decision to buy the Q9000 or not for my Studio 1737. So since I went on a limb and bought it, I thought I would join this forum to let everyone know that It does work. The Bios supports it, the heak-sink dye is more that adiquate, and the motherboard does provide enough power. As first, when I had just installed it, I decided to test it out by playing L4D2. about 10min in I got a BSOD Bc code: 1e. I looked at the temperatures and they were 75C+. Too hot. So I reseated the heatsink a couple of times, now it plays L4D2 without getting over 60C or so. I also Have not gotten a BSOD since then. Any questions welcome.

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

We Demand PICS!!!

because my 1737 I have been considering beefing up my T9400 2.53Ghz 6MB cache 1066FSB Core 2 Duo, which thanks to IDA runs at 2.66Ghz. And its 35 Watt TDP

to a T9900 at 3.06Ghz also 35 Watts TDP or a

P9700 which is like the only P version using 28 Watts TDP much better than 35 Watts, and stll retains the 6MB cache of the T series and it runs at 2.8Ghz. Which is great seeing which I can find cheaper.

But I had no idea we could run a 45 Watt Q9000 in a Studio 1737 Thats impressive.

Quick someone try this one

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37033

Oh and Atomic please give a briefe step by step on what you did becaise I want to do this also.

 

Yeah, one person with one post claiming it works when all indications point to it not working, so we need more proof.

What would you use a Quad Core for Ice Cold? Even a lowly Core 2 would quickly bottleneck with the craptastic 3650 GPU in the 1737's.

 

Ok, will you guys be appeased with a CPUID screenshot or will i have to open her up? Ya, I just popped the old one out and put in the q9000, I am having a slight problem though. I have the temperatures under control, but when I play something like Supreme commander or L4D2 for like 30 min or so, i get a BSOD each has a different stop code (latest 7f) Since the temps dont ever get over 65C even at 85% usage, is it a voltage problem? also there sometimes is a 10C temp difference between the cores. Could this be causing my BSOD? thanks guys.

 

Temp differences can be attributed to either only a few cores being taxed or the heatsink not properly making full contact on one of the die.

The crash can be a power issue, since the Dual cores are 35w chips and the Q9000 is a 45w monster. You can upgrade your adapter very cheaply on eBay, since you most likely have a 90w PSU now. A 130w PSU is ~$25.00 and will rule out power issues.

The worse case scenario is the draw from the socket itself may be slightly undervolted or engineered for the 35w chips and is going out of spec to fuel your Q9000.

If you are keeping a running log of your temps and at the time of the crash they aren't approaching anything over 85c, then you can most likely rule out heat and I'd focus on getting a stronger PSU.

If the 130W PSU doesn't fix the problem then it may be an engineering issue with the rated draw of the socket itself or BIOS defined power draw and then you're effectively screwed.

Are you saying with the former dual core chip that you didn't experience crashes after 30 min? After 10-20 min of game play, is your PSU very hot to the touch?

 

Alright Well I take back my last statement about it not reaching over 65C, I got CPUgenie and did some tests. These tests determine if the cpu will run for 3min constantly at 100% usage with the particular voltage, clock speed, multi you set it on. First off I found that when running a test at 7.5x multi, 2000mhz @ 1.175V (which is the max VID voltage range on intels site) it failed. CPUgenie stated this is most likely due to undervoltage. So, I increased the voltage to 1.187V and ran the same test, it passed. During the tests I saw no hints of system instability or BSOD. The temps got to about 75C or so (according to realtemp, and HWmonitor) and 79 with CPUgenie (I think its wrong) And then the fans became audible, you know what im talking about if you have ever flashed your 1737's bios. The system, nomatter what im doing, runs the cores at 1.112V normally. I figure this is the cause of my BSOD's. I am very new to this, so any input is greatly apprieciated.

 

BAh so be it, my thinking exactly hardly anything is coded for Quad Cores and going from 2.53Ghz down to 2.0Ghz would only be a downgrade and loss of performance and battery life.

If anything, I will consider a T9900 or a P9700 for the heck of it. A Q9000 would only end up being slower than a T9400 for daily use.

Let alone the heat generated would mean the fan is always on. (rarely on now)

Craptastic, ATI 3650 pretty much yeah. But it Plays Command & Conquer General perfectly, and Star Craft 2 BETA on max perfectly at 30fps.

And those are the only 2 Games I care about on the PC or from a Laptop Perspective.

Batman Arkham Asylum and Mass Effect 2, those I play 100% on my Desktop with SLI Nvidia and full PhysX support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vINH6Z9kqgI NVIDIA wih Physx does alot more than add more papers flying about My favorites is the Steam and Smoke that moves as you walk by and the Tearable cloth.

 

Ah, I didnt see your post til I had already written that. No, I never got BSOD with my t6500, and the PSU has always gotten quite hot. I noticed something else as well, CPUgenie lets you view the tables of your ACPI Power State in the Bios, it says that the thermal design is 35W?? Thats not right. Is their a way to reset, or update that? Or is that much earlier post in this thread about 45W being supported completely a lie?

 

Yeah, the 1737's are designed for 35w chips. Honestly, I think your Q9000 booting up is more an issue of Dell never excluding it (white list) from the list of acceptable CPUs like the did with the Extremes. I tried a QX9300 (45W) in the 1737 and it didn't post at all. The X9100 (44W) and T9900 (35W) both post and work.

I do think it is more an issue of the system having to go out of spec and the undervolting issue you encountered. If the ACPI tables are BIOS limited to 35w, you will encounter situations where your chip may dip and become unstable.

If you really want to check for stability, give it a Prime95 max heat 4 core run, make sure to log your temps and voltages and see if your system can handle that for 10-15 minutes. It will root out any calculation errors, power consumption and heating problems. Also run CPUZ or similar and check to make sure your chip isn't throttling which would really defeat the purpose of putting a Q9000 in there.

 

T9900 works great in the 1737. My friend still has one in his. P9700 would be decent if you want a little better heating and power consumption. at the cost of ~200mhz of speed (!).

Yeah, the 3650, wow.....World of Warcraft really chokes on native 1920x1200 on his RGBLED. He has to drop it down to 1440x900 to get playable frame rates or really scale back the eye candy at native and even then for raiding he has to drop down to 1440x900 AND scale back details.

 

So no one knows of a way to override the ACPI tables? it looks like the tables are still for my old cpu, because the voltages go up after 2.1ghz, but seeing as the quad doesnt, its never getting the required juice. CPU genie has a setting and tries but i see it keeps fluctuating between the custom voltage and the default. Reinstall windows? flash the bios maybe?

 

Yeah I had teh same issues, the secret to get the most out of the 3650 is to disable in Catalyst and or in Game ANY and ALL AA Antiailising.

Then you get some good performance out of the 3650. With pretty high settings. But as soon as any AA is turned on that kills the 3650. More than Ultra settings more than anything. Easily a 10+ frame bump by turning off AA.

 

Its ridiculous. My old processor had a higher voltage requirement that the quad does, my motherboard is more than capable of running it. The acpi tables dont give it the req voltage until it reaches 2.2+ghz. (its 2.0ghx) I know their is a way to mod those tables, it can be done from linux. But God help me, i cant understand what they're talking about.

 

I cant find a 130W adapter for that little money, do you have any links where I can find one that is sure to be compatible with the 1737?

 

http://ark.intel.com/chipset.aspx?familyID=35509

This link will take you to the page that lists all the processors compatible with the Studio 1737, or any computer with the GM/PM45 chipset family. Among those is the qx9100 quad core 2.53ghz O_O

 

So whats the difference between the 2 different flavors of T9900?? they have 2.

And yes that Website says Intel GM45 Chipset is compatible with a Quad Core QX 9300 12MB cache. But thats far away from saying Yes my DELL made Studio 1737 with an Intel GM 45 chipset will accept and QX 9300

going from a TDP wattage change from 49.5 to 59.5 Its unlikely to be a swap in swap out.

 

True, the real issue, I think, would be the heat. But this is a link from a Dell technician. I have actually resolved my Q9000 problems. It will not blue screen anymore. It wasnt a lack of voltage, it was voltage fluctuation. Friggin turbo mode was making the voltage fluctuate rapidly while under load. I simply turned off turbo mode, and played 2 hours of L4D2 on all max settings, multicore rendering, battery only (not AA, the 3650 hates AA). No crashes at 30fps or so cpu never got over 68C. Oh BTW if the northbridge gets over 75C you will get a BSOD. Cheers

 

Oh and im not sure what processor you have Cold, but mine had a T6500 which isnt listed as compatible according to that site..

 

I have a T9400, and I guess when you turn off Turbo Mode that just means it won't go faster than spec clock. But will that affect your Dynamic acceleration? meaning will it run at lower clock speeds when not stressed?

For example on Winowd 7 64-bit on Balanced mode my T9400 2.53Ghz 6MB cache runs at 800mhz slowest. And when stressed goes to 1.5Ghz then something else then 2.53Ghz.
When I switch to High Performance I guess Turbo Mode also know as Dynamic Acceleration runs the T9400 at 2.66Ghz

So maybe some day I will jump on a QX 9300 12MB cache 2.53Ghz CPU But where can I buy one??

 

The chipset is compliant at its core, but you need:

A properly wired socket to recognize a Quad Core
The CPU to not be blacklisted
Proper BIOS Vcore (and supporting hardware).

Just because the Series 4 chipset supports the Quad Cores doesn't mean your system is fully able to support it.

You disabled a chip function to get your chip to work, so that's kind of sort of a fix but still nice.

I can 100% guarantee you the Extreme QX9300 will NOT work in the 1737's. Tried and it was a no go. It wouldn't even post. That's why I switched him to a T9900 (especially for WoW it made sense, since WoW is primarly single core optimized and mildly dual core at best). More a case of being excluded from the BIOS for recognition and support than anything. Never did get a chance to try the Q9000/Q9100 though, but with your tests the Q9000 apparently can work with turbo turned off.

As for AC Adapters:

130W: http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-PA-13-AC-A...ZLaptop_Adapters_Chargers?hash=item335b03f020

130W Slim model: http://cgi.ebay.com/Slim-Dell-PA-4E...ZLaptop_Adapters_Chargers?hash=item3a512effb8

150W: http://cgi.ebay.com/150W-NEW-AC-Ada...ZLaptop_Adapters_Chargers?hash=item3efb7cd6e8

 

Thanks for the links. You tried the Qx9300? That junk is expensive. Yes turbo mode enables the power state that requires a clock speed higher than what I have (2.3ghz 8.5x @ 1.212v). So when it was suddenly put under stress it would jump up to 2.1ghz all of a sudden, then because its really not supposed to do that would go back down to the highest possible miltiplier. It would do this while I was gaming, or whatever, constantly. It fluctuated about 3 times a second between 1.112 and 1.212 volts. I tried that before, when I first got the processor, and at that time hadnt accounted for the northbridge temperature, or even gave the temperature a glance at all. While running intel burn test, my processor temp never got close to dangerous levels, but when the northbridge hit 75C or more, insta BSOD. So, disabling turbo, and keeping northbridge cool = success. I think if it wasnt $350 or more, I woulda gotten the Q9100, bout the same temps, about the same power consumption, but it would be able to utilize the turbo-mode p-state.

Heres a link to buy the Qx9300, Cold:
http://cgi.ebay.com/INTEL-CORE-2-EX...emQQptZCPUs?hash=item19bada3a6b#ht_500wt_1182

And for the Q9100 (probably a more feasible option)
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=q9...=qx9300&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

If u buy one, make sure the Spec number isnt QGMU or a QAVK, as those do not have temperature sensors. For the Q9100 the SLB5G is the fully equipped one.

They fail to mention that on some listings, it was a good thing I researched the different Spec numbers, I found a couple of cheap ones I was gonna buy til I discovered that.

 

Would their be any advantage to the 150W adapter? I am also guessing that all that extra juice wouldn't over-volt, or fry anything right?

 

Nah, the Studio series like most Dells auto sense the adapter being used (it usually shows up in the BIOS to even let you know which is attached). 130w to be safe under load and 150w is the overkill absolutely sure option.

 

I got a random semi-related question. My FSB with my old processor was 800mhz, with my new quad its 1060-64(fluctuation). Is this a false reading or did the quad raise my FSB. Like OCing. My northbridge does get hotter.

 

Your system uses the PM45 chipset, so it supports both older (Santa Rosa) and newer (Montevina) Core 2 chips. Your older chip was most likely an 800fsb Santa Rosa based chip, while the Q9000 is a newer 1066 Montevina chip. And yeah, your NB will get toasty.

 

Why don't Dell just sendd out 130w adapters instead of 90... surely its costing them more to sendd people 90w then 130w!

 

Oh man, thats sweet. Insta-FSB upgrade. Awesome.

Ya, im on the fence about getting a 130w they are cheap, but my 90w only gets hot when im using the computer, and charging the battery together. if its not both, it just get a lil warm. It does click tho, which i read is it arking inside. not good.

Also I cant get rid of these event log errors. Every 2min or so, I get an ACPI event log 13. The EC did not respond..blah blah. I only get them when the battery is connected. If I run on AC alone not one error. I have made sure al drivers and bios are up to date.

 

You need not buy the 130w? I read in other threads in this forum that if you call up Dell and complain about throttling or something they'll send out a 130w PSU for free...

 

I read that as well, I believe that only applies if you have a 1747, because they come with the power hungry i7.

 

None of this 130W power adapter talk affects the 1737 why is it being discussed here? Unless someone is arguing the 1737 is also throttled and having power problems?

My question to electrosoft and AtomicKitten, when you guys tried the Q9100 and Q9300 and Q9000 on your own 1737 (which comes with a 90 Watt Poer supply) did you guys use the standard 90 watt power supplu or adapter or did you get your hands on a 130 Watt or a 150 Watt power adapter??

 

I have always used the 90w power supply.

 

Could you guys help me with another annoying problem I have been having? Or point me toward the appropriate thread? My windows 7 Ultimate boot time is about 1:30, it used to be 2:30 but I did bootlog, and fixed all of the driver load problems, so they all load. I cant tell, even though they're loading, if they are hanging at some point. I would say after the bios loads, it takes 45sec appx just for the splash screen, then another 20 or so of just black screen until I can even see the login screen background, then about 20sec more till i get to login. After login its runs very very smoothly. I am running a constant clean boot, nothing in startup. I have Blackviper tweaked my services, and got Autoruns to see exactly whats going on. everything checks out. My friend's (almost identical) 1737 starts from bios to login in under 30sec. What is the problem?! I have no noticeable warnings in event log, save the CONSTANT ACPI error 13. Help anyone?

Cheers guys.

 

for the Last year, I have only shut down my 1737 via Hibernate. Hibernate uses no power. When I want to use my PC again, I hit power and she boots in about 30 seconds or less back to my desktop or to where I left off. If I can help it I will avoid complete shutdowns and reboots always.

and 95% of my its the 1737 is coonected via HDMI to my Samsung LED XL2370 23" LCD so its better for me plus I rarely use the 1737 Keyboard because via USB I am coonected to a Logitech Illuminated kyboard.

If I could I would suggest shuttingdown via Hibernate.