What Dell Could Do To Compensate For Defective GFX Cards

I've never had any problems and have been able to max out Assasins Creed without any problems, but for those were were affected, or are more irked... lets come up with some ideas Dell could do to compensate and talk about them. Some ideas I have in mind:

1) Massive recall of all affected units.

Probably not really realistic due to the volume, but Dell could press all these charges on Nvidia so its not really taking a hit.

2) 25% Discount code for a Montevina based XPS laptop when it comes out.

It would allow users to keep their M1530 while the millions of dollars Nvidia has to pay would go towards a major discount for a Montevina laptop.

3) Leave it as it is now.

Might anger many.

4) Receive 500 million from Nvidia, then divide it amongst all the affected customers with a gift card compensation for those under any type of warranty.

 

#4 looks good to me!!!!!

 

I really don't think there's any point to this thread....
The only thing I could say is, I think it's reasonable for Dell to fix any affected laptop that has problems. I think that's all they are obligated to do.
I think people are just always looking for ways to get "compensated". It's not Dell's fault for the Nvidia screw up, and Nvidia have set aside quite a bit of money to replace affected units. Dell is only obligated to replace units affected.Dell only supplied the cards, they didn't manufacture the chips.
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Yeah I see where you're coming from but they should stop putting them in their system if they know there is a good chance its defective......a lot of ppl dont know enough about computers/laptops to know any better.....

 

Well, I'm just speculating here, but perhaps there's two things at play if they are indeed continuing to ship laptops with faulty cards ( I really don't know ).
First, is perhaps a supply problem. Until the supply with good chips can ramp up, that would pretty much kill any laptop shipments as I see it (there's by far and away more laptops shipping with nvidia chips than any other).
Which brings me to my next point, that perhaps there's a low percentage of actual units that fail, and so perhaps Dell and others see fit to continue shipping laptops with affected units until replacements can arrive. Basically, seeing a greater return on the investment. Just for example, what if only 30% units arrive back for replacement, that's just 30% that need new video cards, but think of the return on the 70% of LAPTOPS that don't need fixing.
It can still be profitable, and the only way Dell can continue shipping laptops without their shipments grinding to a halt.
Just my opinion though.

 

yeah I agree with you if they gave everyone some kind of compensation they would take an astronomical hit on their profits......i guess just doing the logical business thing.....hopefully they come out with some kind of real public statement about procedures for the people who are seeing the effects of the bad units

 

How about if they upgraded all of the defective burned out cards with something from the 9600m or 9700m series free of charge if your computer is still under warranty.

 

Now that would be ideal.....but it will never happen

 

None of those are going to happen. nVidia is the sole party responsible and they are only handling them on a case by case basis.

 

Actually, since you bought from Dell rather than nVidia, Dell is the sole party responsible as far as you are concerned -- how they wrangle with nVidia to decide who needs to pony up the cost of repair is their business, not yours.

If you go to a restaurant and found a veggie worm in your salad, are you going to blame the farmer who grew the veggie and give the restaurant owner a pat on the back and say it's ok, or are you going to ask the restaurant for a new plate of salad or a refund?

 

nVidia has already set aside $200 million for warranty repairs, it's there problem at this point. For example I make tires and sell them to a car company. Well these tires really suck and they fail and people wreck their cars people these tires break up. Who do you think is going to be getting sued?

 

Both you and the car company -- car company got sued by the consumer, you got sued by the car company, but not the consumer directly. This example actually happened, if you don't know, just google Ford Explorer and Firestone/Bridgestone tires, see who got sued by whom.

 

dont think dell would go thru all that trouble to redesign a motherboard for the current m1530 with the new card.... think they'll just make a newer (and better cooling system) model

 

Watch them get a revelation all of a sudden. Hey! Lets release a M1530 refresh! Then wait till October to release the actual Montevina model we were planning on releasing!

 

I'd just like them to fix a laptop even if it's outside the warranty period if the problem is found to be the video card. Makes me wish I got the integrated video even more now.

 

lol, thats why I always go for cooked, hot n steamy dishes (just to be safe than sorry!).

But seriously though, there are so many forums out there discussing this issue, and the funny part is, neither Dell nor nVidia have come out with a really 'reasonable' solution / answer to the customers, or at least none that I know of. I, personally, would prefer a replacement of the faulty cards with a known, good version of the same or the immediate higher version for no cost. Well, dell 'just supplied' the card in their laptops, accepted. But then when Dell looks to nVidia for good cards, I think its reasonably part of Dell' responsibility to get us trouble free components, no? And replace them if there is any known issue, particularly issues of this mass scale!!! I hope Dell replaces all the cards on the systems within warranty (billing the cost to nVidia). Else I am sure this is going to turn out to be a big mass action suit sometime soon, from some business or industry!!! Hmmmm... Life' never easy, is it? Cheers.

 

That comparison is way off.

 

Your anaolgies are off the mark. Dell soldered the chips onto their motherboards, put the motherboards into their computers and sold them to consumers. Dell is responsible to the consumer, and NVidia is responsible to Dell for its losses.

A desktop might be different, IF they shipped it with a PCI card and included a separate NVidia warranty statement with the system documentation.

Also, why do people keep suggesting that Dell replace the cards/boards on systems under warranty??? People, THEY HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAY! The trick is how they will approach the problem as pertaining to customers with machines OUT of warranty. I am one of these customers, with a Vostro 1500 whose warranty expired late last week (same day as Dell announced the problem, actually).

I am also pretty upset that Dell hasn't even given Vostro 1500 owners the lousy bios upgrade. My guess is that they're figuring that since those units came with a standard 1 year warranty and were superceded by another model several months ago, the majority of the effected units are out of warranty, i.e., they will leave the consumer up the proverbial creek and without the proverbial paddle. I do hope this is not the case. If this card fails in less than 3 years, I will fully expect Dell to correct the problem at no charge to me.

 

A good solution would be to upgrade everyone to 4 year Complete Care warranties, with a refund for those who already purchased it.

Benefits for Dell

1) It doesn't actually cost them anything out of pocket for a warranty upgrade. They're not shipping anything to you, and not paying for any replacements (yet).

2) Instead of replacing every motherboard on the market, only the truly defective ones are replaced. Many laptops are not defective, but there's no way to tell. This method would save a lot of money.

3) Shows customers that Dell stands by its product. Might even convince people to buy extended warranties on their next purchase.

Benefits for the Customer

1) Peace of mind. If the notebook turns out to be defective, it will be replaced.

2) Convenience. If your notebook is not having problems right now, there's no need to ship it back for a replacement. You don't lose time and productivity.

 

i'd rather have a lifetime warranty <--- and that wont be possible

also, how about the inconvenience caused?

 

When we find out exactly which chips are affected. I would hope Dell services any issues found to be related to the GPU even if the computer is out of warranty. This would be the easiest thing they could do. From the description of the issue it seems like issues could arise further down the lifetime of the laptop since it is related to heating up and then cooling down. Some people with affected laptops might not even see any problems, if they don't put their laptop under great stress.

Idk until nVidia releases some more stats related to % of failure and affected a good response can't really be formulated. I think what Dell is doing right now is the best that can be done. Something more can be done once all the info regarding failure and what not has been released.

 

I think the reason Nvidia has not released the chips affected is because it is ALL of them, every single one of them. They can't possibly admit to that as current shipments from Dell and others are on the line, Dell doesnt want them to admit that either, it would kill their sales for months! And yes Nvidia has set aside $200 million, which is not even close to what it will cost them!! I would suggest nobody order a system with these cards until the whole truth comes out otherwise you are taking a huge gamble. Both Nvidia and Dell want to push the issue off onto the consumer for as long as possible, especially those outside of warranty. For those of you saying they are doing what they can based on current information are missing the boat! Deny Deny Deny! Act as if nothing is wrong, release a 'patch' that does nothing more than decrease battery life and push the problem out a few years giving both Dell and Nvidia time and reason to deny out of warranty service. Until either of them come clean with real solutions, stay away! Those of you with 1 year warranties, start building your case..those of you with longer warranties avoid the bios patch, why delay the inevitable! This is going to get very very messy. I hope I am wrong as I do have an affected machine but the current information leads me to the above conclusion,

also read this from the inquirer saying ALL chips are defective!!

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/27/dell-models-defective-nvidia

 

Ofcourse it's all chips. Obviously.

The recent bios update magically covered all the Dell laptops with G84M and G86M gpu's... Even the Quadro's... So it's definately a GPU thing. nVidia has set aside 200 million, which is about 200 thousand (thousand dollar) laptops... Those arent figures for "small percentage failures"... We're probably all ****ed. I'm going ati next time around.

 

The option1 is the most likely if it ever happens. But i don't think so- unless:
- either it becomes a big story in the IT media
- and/or, a significant no of end users start sending their units. In other words, the overall cost* for dell has be largher than replacing the units (here in overall cost, add the cost of the 1st unit itself)

Reason for my pessimism (another speculation): You can bet that Dell and some other firms will be getting some special discounts from nVidia. In other words, they'll scratch eash other's back in order to avoid massive screw ups.

The upcoming consumer protection law from EU directive will give more power to the consumers => as a consumer if your product doesn't do what it's supposed to do then you'll only have to go to the firm from where you bought it....if the firm denies it or tells you to go to the manufacturer, then they'll be in deep trouble simply put they'll be breaking the law. Heh, considering the world economy you can bet that the last thing they'll want is a bad reputations (assuming problematic world economy for the next 3-4 years)

 

They could initiate a recall and over to replace any motherboard that was ordered before a certain date to have their GPU/Motherboard replaced.

 

There is only really one thing that you can do in situations like this:
Either 1. put out a fix now (recall),
2. extend the warranty on effected systems to provide for a swap when the time comes, or
3. Take responsibility for your company and actually admit that a mistake was made, and then do the first two like an honorable person would. Even set up a special phone line / web page to address the specific issue. Nothing is ever more expensive then losing customers. And I am not a fan of companies or people demanding 'concessions' like gift coupons, red wine, or free upgrades, just because something went wrong. The only obligation that one should hols anyone two is whatever the original one was . . . I wanted an 8600gt to play Crysis, and I wanted one that worked 100% of the time. If its broken, fix it. If its defective, fix the defect and then fix me please. When you hit your sibling growing up, you apologized, and then you hugged them right? Did mom and dad make you do their homework for a week too (hope not)?
But I wouldn't expect any one to step up like that in this world, since the only people taught to say sorry are children. Extending warranties and taking a chance on MOST systems never coming back is a lot cheaper than just taking a known defective part out of circulation. So, good for company. Bad for consumer. Why? Because they will put the same damn part in your laptop that just fried. Maybe you get another 6 months, maybe you get 6 years.

My point is, remember how they handled it next time you go shopping for a computer. That is, if you plan to just let the two companies decide whats best for YOU, instead of demanding it yourself.

 

Extending all warranties would be the most noble thing to do. After all, they have to handle it on a case by case basis anyways. They could specify that the extension applies only to failures due to graphics card, and not anything else (hard drive, etc.)

 

I agree. While I really wish nVidia would provide some actual information instead of half-assed allusions, and they are def. more to blame than Dell, Dell is the company that sold me the machine and Dell is the company that took my money. So I expect them to recompense me in some way should my machine go south and take it up with nVidia as they wish. I've never dealt directly with nVidia and I am not chasing them down now.

Personally, I believe extended coverage of GPU/motherboard failures is a must. But extending the general warranty would be a really nice gesture and would probably do much to earn customer goodwill.

 

While I agree with you (because I think you agree with me), I would stick to extended warranty's . . . period. The reason being that, even though the GPU is the culprit, the extra heat or resultant voltage dip or spike when it quits might take your motherboard or CPU with it too.

 

What Dell could do? They could follow HP's lead!
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...77&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=1842189&lang=en

Sorry, Dell, you are still wondering why you lost market share against HP?

 

Well, HP's solution isn't exactly stellar, but at least it's SOMETHING positive, and at least you're covered for two years, regardless of warranty status. Dell, will you do ANYTHING at all????

 

How dell can keep selling laptops knowing they have defective parts in them is amazing. You know whats even more amazing? That people are still buying these laptops knowing there are defective gpu's in them! Wow!

 

I'm not sure it is such an amazing thing, if you're getting a long-term warranty with it. Knowing what we know and buying less than a three-year warranty is probably questionable in case Dell does nothing for people OOW, but if you're covered and take precautions like backing up your data regularly, you can take the risk. I'm not saying it's worth the hassle, exactly, but if you're in love with the model otherwise it's not the height of stupidity to buy it anyway.

 

Please try to keep in mind that the "official" announcement came out only recently. Like many companies, Dell began working on a solution back when they found out about the problem, obviously I'm pissed they didn't just come out and tell everyone, but I can understand why they might prefer to be able to say that they have already developed and released a solution. Even if it only amounts to a fan speed adjustment.

Neither Dell nor Nvidia can be held 100% responsible for the issue that thousands now have to deal with. Unless Nvidia made its own 'packing material', there is still a third party here that screwed up.

That is the interesting point about the speed of manufacturing and sale these days . . . if you have an issue, you've already given it to hundreds or thousands of people. You cannot catch everything in testing because it just does not mirror reality (nor would I ever expect it to), period.

The Bottom line of this, is that they think about the bottom line. If it costs more to dump the chips and buy ATI than it does to develop a patch, lose a few thousand low-rollers and carry on then guess which decision wins? In a perfect world, we would all have new hardware coming our way, but the supply chain will always be introducing the possibility of a swarm of defective crap getting put out there.

I stand by my original point . . . just give us an extended warranty. I'll be buying a new computer in 3 years anyway, guarantee me to run until then, and the odds probably favor Dell that only a small percentage of laptops will fail. Low cost for them, warm-fuzzy protected feeling for me. If a new revision is released that represents a permanent fix, then stick it in there when I send the thing back. Capesh?

 

mgh,

I would accept what you've proposed for a solution, but as someone whose 1 year warranty has already expired, I'm rather upset and anxious over Dell's refusal to commit to provide any relief to customers outside the limits of their warranties.

 

That should be done as a matter of course. Otherwise I'm guessing either Dell or nVidia are gonna be flirting with a lawsuit.

I think the ford/firestone analogy given earlier in the thread was a good one. Since Ford was a party to that lawsuit, Dell could be sued in this case too.

 

I totally understand. I had to fight with Dell already over a refund vs. new system defect that I was having an issue with. They obviously preferred to delay / prevent a refund by keeping me 'in the system'. The 20-day refund thing they do is crap anyway . . . I swear they are just allowing for shipping time to suck up what should be a 30 day GUARANTEE. I believe it is law that any vendor grant a refund for virtually any reason within that period. For Dell to ever try to prevent that when dealing with a dissatisfied consumer offends me on a deep level. I feel that this should doubly apply to an online outfit, because the consumer really has no way of familiarizing themselves with the end-product unless someone they know owns the exact same one.

As for the door 'slamming shut' when a warranty expires, that is definitely a slap and definitely something I would be RAVING about on the phone. This is a known issue now, and I imagine if you contacted them NOW while you are still in warranty, provided the articles pointing to the problem, you might be able to negotiate something. If they leave you out and screw you over only two things come to mind:

1. Take note of the fact that you apparently have gone the whole first year without an issue. If you are moderate / heavily using the card, then I bet you will be fine.
2. You can always let them know (and hopefully to someone in management), that because of their unsatisfactory response to you, you, even as a customer who adores their products and just came in to an inheritance (lets not lose our sense of humor), will never recommend them to anyone again, and will never spend another cent on anything associated with them.

Jeez, I only bought a 1 year warantee also (wanted better hardware, on my living wage), weird since I know the WD HDD I have in there has a 3 year (yet I pay more to be covered by Dell)? In case anyone is wondering, yes, I am that stubborn, cheap, and cold. Life is too short and money is too rare for me to screw around paying big money to companies that give me lip service and crappy products. So long as you have choice you have a way out. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, and I will spread my hate of you over as many people as I can get to listen.

 

Microsoft had a huge problem w/ the 360 (Red Ring of Death) and manned up by:

1) extending warranty to 3years for that particular defect
2) free replacement machine

The defect was affecting ~30% of the units which is incredibly high. I think MS did the right thing (although they were a bit slow in admitting it as well). Let's hope Nvidia/Dell/other laptop makes will get w/ the program and provide a legit solution to their consumers.

 

You are assuming nVidia did not specify and okay the supplier to use this packaging material because their engineering believe this is good enough...

The funny thing is, so far, only nVidia filed for disclosure for the unexpected cost -- not Dell, HP, or any laptop ODM/OEM and not TSMC or any other actual chip makers...

 

well the 25% off montevina coupon would do jack nothing for me as I have literally just bought my XPS...

 

. . . and you are assuming that the samples that Nvidia reviewed were inadequate or defective, and engineers knowingly ok'ed it. Obviously, if what you are saying was true, this problem would have to be elevated from mistake to conspiracy. Or maybe you just think the engineers are stupid.

To your second point, I'm not surprised. No one knows what the costs are until the issue is over. Depending on the decisions made, that could take a quarter, or it could take years.

 

Actually, I wasn't assuming anything, I was pointing out the assumptions of your assertion that clears nVidia and Dell of wrong-doing and you have just added more assumptions that you have assumed to be fact that allow you to draw that conclusion...

If you have proof to show those assumptions to be a fact, I am all ears, but before that I am not going to let nVidia and Dell off the hook that easily...

And yeah, engineers are stupid, being one of them myself so I know this very clearly, we are especially stupid when managed by dumb managers in Corporate America environment...