Why Dell is still selling notebooks with Nvidia 8000 M Series

Why is Dell still selling notebooks with Nvidia GeForce 8000M Series such as the XPS M1730? They know the GPU is defective and will fail far sooner than it is intended to. They are selling a ticking time bomb.

I know that they release a BIOS update but that will only delay the eventual break down a bit later after the standard warranty expires.

 

They have an inventory of unused parts, and they likely need to get rid of them. Also, it isn't a universal problem, merely a relatively widespread one.

 

Can anyone explain exactly what the problem is with the 8xxxM series of GPU? I have one... haven't had any issues with it, but I'm concerned with all these topics cropping up.

 

Here's an example with pictures http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=315995

 

Actually they dont keep an inventory of more than 1 day on parts.

It is because it takes time to re-engineer a new product. Its not as easy as just slapping in an upgraded card into a new desktop. They pretty much have to redesign the entire system.

 

maybe dell's still under a contract with nvidia regarding these cards?

 

They don't really hold any inventory at all - their suppliers do, in facilities onsite. Dell only orders what they need for the next HOUR and the order goes out to the onsite suppliers and only once it crosses the line into the assembly facility does it actually become Dells property.

Obviously it's not just a game of chance and the suppliers stock what they need and in quantities that Dell requires them to have but Dell doesn't take ownership of it until it crosses that line.

 

they already have

 

What I don't understand is why they're still selling the 8700 and the 8800 M1730 at that price? For the same price, you can get AW's M17 at the same price with dual 3870s.

It must be a company thing, because AW still has the m9750 starting more then the M17.

 

Because all they care about is the almighty dollar.

They're having serious financial trouble. Their stock is trading at $9.50, an 11 1/2 year low.

Customer Service and Technical Support is non-existant.
They know those 8600s are gonna explode and they don't care.

 

Regardless of what Dell (and other manufacturers) are selling, it's up to you what you buy isn't it? It's not like you don't have an option to choose a model with a different GPU.

 

Also, the newer 9xxx series do not significantly outperform the 8 series on all levels.

Though I share in your confusion. I enjoy my dell, but it is going to take a lot to make me ever buy one again. Customer service is poor, resolutions are slow unless you pay hundreds for a warranty that should be standard (most manufacturers give three years - why a laptop is covered for 1 I do not understand). That and the lack of response to the Nvidia failure has killed my enthusiasm. Also, the model I have has been out for years, and they still haven't fixed the audio crackling, still haven't fixed the HDD's that blow up blah blah blah.

This is a high tech world where people pay as much for a phone or an iPod as they do for a computer sometimes. There are dozens of companies that want your big money, and if you can't deliver, you can't stay in business. Dell may be excellent for some, but the alternatives are looking better every day. They keep up with the fastest parts and keep the prices low.

 

Your correct LPTR-LVR; that's why I quickly returned my M1530 yesterday.

For me a company loses Credibility when they knowingly sell a product with a defective part.

NVidia quietly set up a $196 Million reserve because of a defective GPU they didn't want to identify. Then Dell quietly rewrote a BIOS so the fan would run longer and extended the GPU warranty for 1 year. Dell now hopes your warranty runs out before the chip BURNS up.

Do you think Nvidia set up a 196 million $ reserve because only a few GPU's failed? It's a major problem; you can see from the forum members that the chips are blowing left and right.

NVidia and Dell know they're dealing with a timebomb and they're working overtime to sweep it under the rug at our expense.

We are all free to buy good notebooks or potentially defective units.

 

it isnt just dell though, lots of manufactures are still selling surplus posible defective gpu's in there laptops

 

I agree mgh_a1,

I love some of their designs but HATE Customer Care and Technical Support. And their hour long phone wait is Horrendous; I've been told by Technical Support that the one hour wait is designed by corporate policy so they can sell a quicker support product for an additional $189/yr.

My enthusiasm for Dell is at an all-time Low. And so is it for many other customers and investors. Dell stock has dropped from $25.60/share to $9.50/share in 6 months (that's 63%).

OBVIOUSLY DELL IS NOT DOING MUCH RIGHT and burning their long-time best customers is not a great strategy.

 

Cuz youre still buying em.

 

oh hell no, i still have 3 years of warranty left, i will never buy dell again...

trying to escalate an issue for a month, still no actual contact at all. i had to email Michel Dell, hope i can gain some traction that way. the support sucks balls, the machines suck balls now, 2 years ago they where great but now they are just junk... my new (got it as a replacement, i didn't buy) 1730 just sucks, i hate everything about it. my 1330 is ok, but i see the difference in quality from 2 years ago...

 

Thats not saying much because dell had huge issues with wxga+ screens a few years back on their 1420's. I bought a 1420 in 07 and it had a cracked lid and a dark/poor viewing angle sec screen. The replacement had the worst/grainy vasoline (AUO) covered looking screen I have ever seen. The speakers on it were so bad that I essentially took the time to continuously hook up external speakers. The BT would lose connection all the time as well. Then I got my HP with LG screen with altec lansing speakers and what a difference. The BT also works perfectly. But it has the 8400 gpu so I am worried about that for sure. It never goes over 55C so I have my fingers crossed. The m1330's temps got into the 70C range and they were frying right and left. Also a few years back there was the widespread headphone jack static on the Dell 1520's. I basically thought they were junk a few years ago. HP is a better option if you want to buy cheap. At least they are engineered a little better. Dell seems to allow flaws in hardware design to slip into their final assembly builds. They definitely are more rushed and put less thought into their new designs IMO.

But I used to think their telephone support was generally good. The problem being good support can't fix bad hardware. So if their support is also slipping these days then Dell is doomed. I mean if you have both crappy hardware and support it will not be good. And if they are trying to cut corners because of financial woes then it will just get worse. I remember back in O7 Dell shipped more in North America then HP.. HP however was bigger globally. Now HP is kicking butt on Dell in all regions. If there is one company that is killing Dell its HP. HP is doing a better job in releasing new models that consumers want that are working better in the field.

From these forums it appears that when I read issues with HP systems, its more of a isolated incident involving some hardware failure or build quality defect. On the Dell forum it appears there are more (systemic) problems that are NOT isolated and affect a much larger population of systems, and at times the entire population of a model. If this is indeed the case then I can fully understand why Dells support would be overloaded with calls.
Its like a good restaurant that serves good food suddenly dropping the ball and puts out crap. It only takes one bad experience at a restaurant for a customer to disappear forever. Even if that customer frequented that establishment for years. Its the same with dell, their losing their loyal base.

 

Normally on consumer notebooks one year is the norm.. at least that's what I have seen. Now on business lines you will see three years.. but those systems are generally much more expensive. Now if Dell is only offering 1 year on their business systems then that would not be good.

 

Wow, people still think the 8xxx series is defective?

THEY'VE FIXED THE ISSUE AS OF LAST AUGUST. EVERYTHING IS FINE.

 

. . . . provided you purchased one after that date. The problem impacted systems across a range of vendors, such as HP, and of course Dell. Basically anyone that used a 8xxx part. How many hundreds or thousands of people does that include? Sorry, but if I ran the company I would switch vendors asap if I were aware of even a potentially disastrous warranty issue. Ati makes competitive alternative cards, and even Nvidia already had the 9xxx series out and running (not that I ever heard those parts were not impacted by the issue).

A final point is just that Dell, like other companies doesn't just burn its existing inventory or switch suppliers when it has an issue like this. My old company is STILL tossing or fixing optiplex's that are burning out capacitors on the motherboard. That issue is years old, and YES, it effects even the NEW systems that they receive. I know this because I have dealt with the company as a personal and as a business consumer. True, it is the Chinese companies fault ultimately for the defect, but I am telling you this because you cannot know how long or how widespread a problem can possibly be. You also cannot assume that more undefective parts exist out there in the wild than defective parts. It would probably cost more to weed those out than it would to just sit and wait for a complaint to come in. 80% of people would probably not even attempt a fix anyway.

The next time your computer burns up or your transmission drops out of your car and you get the shaft, please do come back and tell us how you feel.

 

Wow, I see that Dell and Nvidia have done a great job of fooling you; their strategy has worked perfectly.

Are you aware that the Nvidia 8400 and 8600 GPU's are DEFECTIVE?

Are you aware that Dell only made a Band-aid fix by rewriting the BIOS so the fan runs longer?

Your Dell still has a defective GPU but you might get LUCKY or you might get really UNLUCKLY when it burns up and your Out of Warranty. (It's what they call "a ticking time bomb").

WELL DONE NVIDIA AND DELL, you really did fool some!!

 

Don't believe everything you read. There might be a higher defect rate in some of the 8 series but most laptops are fine.

 

Basically what kills them is extreme temperature variations which make the soder brittle/crack and break. A fine example of this were the m1330 dells which had extreme temps up to 70C and more. Many of these systems burned up quickly. My concern is how the soder will hold up long term on systems whose temps are around 55C like mine. Its a scary problem being that if it happens after warranty it most likely will make scrap out of a notebook being the repair costs will be too high. Its anybodies guess how many systems are affected or if affected gpu's are still being used on new systems. This thanks to nvidia trying to minimize the severity of the problem. I have not read any conclusive documents that sorts out the 8xx mess. Its all pretty sketchy if you ask me.

 

is my understanding that nvidia changed the frabrication process in the solder... if u look around u will findmore infor about the high lead wich is faulty and the new solder. they first saidtht this was fixed in august then in october, anyway since its not all nvidias fault, but the poorly designed heatsink in the m1530. like many has said most of the notebooks are fine, and u cant find many people claiming, that they notebok works perfect at good temps! most of the people that come to forums come looking for help and answers to their problems, its weird to find a post in a forum saying: i got the m1530 and everything is so perfect i dont have any problem with it see u guys! first they would delete the post... cause its not an actual thread... so all u read in forms like this is complaining about this kind of stuff... but still doesnt mean that everyone's graphics card is failing... i think we should start a thread and ask people who got a defective gpu but only people who got, or fixed their computer since october.... but actually failed, cause i had overheating problems and my gpu ran at 100 c for two months.... and never failed on me, downclocked and everything but never got to fail and it was a dell s heatsink problem, fan wasnt running at proper speed and gpu didnt have any thermal pad or grease on it, still they replaced motherboard and heatsink... now i dont get past 80 overclocked and cpu wont go past 60.
Still they cannot solder another chip to this motherboard... its soldered to the motherboard they cant just switch chips like it is a memory card or pci card.
Im not telling u im sure this thing is fixed... but i like to belive it is... and i think the more u worry about ur system failing... it will evetually fail... such a company who made thousands of graphics chips, makes PlayStation3 and many other gpus, this guys know what they are doing, like i said... probably sounds widespread cause it all u read in this and other forums, but if u count the people with this issue, and compare it to the total number of m1530 sold so far... u will see that is not that bad... best regards! enjoy ur m1530, great machine!

JaV!

 

Well, in the UK at least if you can prove that the part was faulty from purchase (as in it was inevitable it was going to fail like in the case of some of the 8000 series GPU's) you can demand a replacement outside of warranty at no cost under the Sale Of Goods Act. The difficult part is getting the proof, and if the retailer will not do anything about it even with proof, theres always the legal action route.

 

I really doubt that they have a solution to the problem. First of all, it sounds too simple. Just change some materials and it is instantly fixed? I believe that they are saying that because they are desperate to get their stocks back up. If you haven't noticed, Nvidia's stocks dropped about 60% since 2007. If they have the solution, why don't they announce all the GPUs that are faulty? So far, they've only admitted to some of the 8xxx series being faulty but there is overwhelming proof that the 6xxx series is faulty too.

 

CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST DELL....
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...0204/dell_lawsuit_090204/20090204?hub=SciTech

I feel bad for those that have faulty laptop units that are out of warranty. Here's one where they won't even honour an existing warranty on an XPS M1330:

Dell will not honour warranty on a warranty transfer.
Sequence of events -
purchased an XPS m1330 from a friend of a friend.
prior to purchasing, I checked the laptop and service tag #s and copied the warranty info [good till 2011].
seller transferred ownership to us and 4 days later we received an email confirmation from Dell confirming a successful ownership transfer.
Laptop video display starts to glitch [as noted on many forums discussing this known problem].
Checked the service tag #s online to follow the procedure to contact Dell on this issue.
Now, after the ownership transfer the warranty info on the service tag # doesnt exist. Nowhere to be found on the search.
Called Dell on more than a dozen occasions and just kept getting the runaround from Dell reps in Canada, USA and India. Managers wouldnt even assist us. This was ongoing since middle of December 2008 to this date.

Finally got someone live last week at a higher level at Dell Canada. Forwarded them our email copy of the successful ownership transfer.
In summary here’s what they said - “sorry, we can’t help you.”

Dell sends us a confirmed email notifying us of a successful ownership transfer on the service tag # given, and we have all the warranty documents for that service tag #. The computer video display glitches [no longer working] and you tell us:
(1) we are not the owners - yet we have your email from your Dell Registration confirming ownership transfer,
(2) we can’t help....

Despite all the correct warranty documentation we have from Dell, this is all they have to say.

A lawsuit is pending against Dell at this time.

I posted this same info on the Derict2Dell Community Blog
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/...ate-limited-warranty-enhancement-details.aspx
and less than a day later they removed it.

It's obvious that they want to sweep this problem under the carpet.
Sorry to say...but it's not going to go away.

 

So do you guys think that I should stay away from buying the m1530?

I am planning to buy a laptop for about $1000 and I liked the m1530 much.

The best thing I love about it is the performance of the video card as I will be playing games much on this card.

But this issue is bothering me.

I am buying this laptop from US and I am leaving outside US so I will not be enjoying the warranty.

I want my laptop to stay for atleast 3 yrs.... dont want it to fail within one year

So is this really an issue now?

Do you guys suggest me to stay away from this lappy and find me a lappy from another company?

Thanks for anyone who will reply to me

 

Its not that the laptop is the problem. Its the video card. So switching to another laptop with the Nvidia cards will still have to problem (as seen on HP, Apple, and Sony laptops).

 

Try Sager, those make some nice gaming notebooks, but im more than happy with my m1530

 

Ya I have been looking at the sager np2096 (compal JHL90)

I loved everything in that laptop except its look

How do you compare it with the m1530 in terms of performance and reliability

 

I guess I would say to buy whatever you want. As for me, at this time and until further notice, my next GPU is going to be from ATI. My brother just picked up a 4670 for his comp, and it is awesome considering that it is not really more of a midline product (doesn't even require seperate power). With an old AMD X2 2.8, we're playing crysis on medium / high. Not a dream framerate, but very playable. Not what I call choppy at all. And that computer btw is a 300 dollar crappy Compaq. a 370 dollar gaming computer? I didn't think it was possible!

 

i would say it stands equal, since the 9600 ddr2 is the same as the 8600 ddr3 ( or even slower )

but since you can fit a very powerful processor, it could beat the m1530, but performance wise i would choose the np8660

 

I've owned my Dell XPS M1730 since early last year, and really like it. My dealings with Dell have been excellent. The first XPS M1730 I bought, I returned as I wasn't happy with the performance of the 8700's. Purchased the the 1730 with the 8800gtx SLi, got a 10% defence discount and a 2 year accidental warranty.

The only issue I ever had was the web cam stopped working, called Dell up that afternoon, they had a tech out to my house the next day at lunchtime, problem solved. This is the first I've ever heard about the Nvidia GPU problem though. Its unfortunate, but I'd be pinning the blame more on Nvidia than Dell.