B560 vs Z590 for i7-11700K

Good day,

I am going to set up a new custom desktop for MATLAB programming. Since I plan to use it more for MATLAB and less for gaming, I plan to just use the underutilised GT1030 that I have for the GPU (I will only upgrade the GPU in the future once the GPU price has become reasonable again and I have the requirement for gaming on the desktop in the future). For the CPU, my original plan is to go for the non-overclockable i9-11900 (can be downgraded to the non-overclockable i7-11700 if the performance versus price difference between the i9-11900 versus i7-11700). The last time I did overclocking was while using AMD Athlon XP 2000+ more than 20 years ago, so I think it is better for a person like me to use the non-overclockable desktop.

The motherboard that I initially wanted to use for the i9-11900 or i7-11700 was the Asrock B560 (or B560M)
Steel Legend, but then I changed my mind after watching review videos from Hardware Unboxed - I decided to go for the Aorus B560 (or B560M) Pro AX or MSI B560 Tomahawk because it is the top 2 best B560 (or B560M) motherbaord based on the review videos. The videos are listed below:




Now I have another problem. Co-incidentally, my younger brother who works at Intel bought the overclockable i7-11700K at a staff price for his own rig and would like to sell it to me at a cheap price (because he bought it at a staff price) because he would like to upgrade his rig to i9-11900K.

In terms of value for money, I should definitely go for my brother's i7-11700K. But now I would like to ask your opinion whether I should stick with the cheaper but high-end B560 (or B560M) motherboard or go for the more expensive but entry-level or mid-range Z590 motherboard even though I don't do overclocking nowadays. Just in case if the performance increase versus price increase when I use the entry-level or mid-range Z590 versus the high-end B560 (or B560M), I will stick with the high-end B560 (or B560M). But if I will lose significant performance while using the i7-11700K on the high-end B560 (or B560M) over the entry-level or mid-range Z590 motherboard, then I will go for the Z590.

I found 2 more review videos by Hardware unboxed making comparison between the entry-level or mid-range Z590 motherboards (listed below), but I might need some time to digest the content and making price and performance comparisons with the high-end B560 (or B560M).



That is all I would like to ask. Thank you.

 

It's up to you but, the Z offers all of the options for the technology that's currently being released for the 11 series chips vs some hobbling of technologies on the B boards.

In addition to these there's also some boards that have USB4 (40gbps) / USB 3.2x2 (20gbps) or get a card like this.

It depends on how you'll want to manage things and/or if you want to expand into dual GPU's for gaming down the road. Having more PCIE / DMI bandwidth will help for data intensive use to speed things up significantly. If your drives get bottlenecked with the DMI using an expansion card to bypass the DMI through the extra PCIE lanes fixes the issue cheaply.

 

For my 11th gen adventures, I went as cheap as possible while wanting a Z590 for overclocking and picked up an MSI Z590-A Pro for less than $200 brand new. It has handled every overclock I've thrown at it but if I really wanted to extract a maximum overclock, a high end Asus or EVGA board would net me better fine tuning. The 11700k can be very power hungry once you turn off all restraints even at stock depending on what you're doing.

If you want to let your 11700k truly perform and get a bit of extra performance out of it, you will need to go Z590.

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

I need some time to digest the table that you put above. At this moment I have concluded that the best entry-level Z590 motherboard based on the Hardware Unboxed video is the ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus Wi-Fi. I might need some time to study the other video from Hardware Unboxed regarding the best mid-range Z590 motherboards, but I think I might end up choosing either the ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus Wi-Fi or the Aorus B560 (or B560M) Pro AX due to budget constraint.

 

Thank you for your reply.

Does this mean it is enough if I just go for the cheap Gigabyte Z590 UD? Gigabyte Z590 UD in one of the entry-level Z590 motherboards listed by Hardware Unboxed. I think its performance is good and its price is cheaper than the Aorus B560 (and B560M) Pro AX. If this is already enough, I will just forget about the more expensive ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus Wi-Fi (the best but more expensive entry-level Z590 listed by Hardware Unboxed).

 

The biggest constraint when dealing with DATA is the LANES.

DMI will bottleneck things unless you use an expansion card to bypass the native ports. It all depends on the types of drives and how many devices are being connected to the DMI as well. If they're competing for access things slow down.



Basically everything in the bottom 1/2 gets funneled through the DMI bus from drives / wifi / ethernet / etc. ( RED squares)

Top 1/2 is unrestricted PCI / Video / RAM ( GREEN squares)

Figuring out which boards run through which bus makes a difference such as NVME drives. If they're running on a SATA port bus they'll likely not perform at their best speeds. Some boards have dual NVME ports in which the primary gets the fastest speed and the secondary even though it handles NVME/SATA based M.2 drives will be on a different bus and usually indicated in the manual as disabling a sata port or two when in use.

 

Thank you very much for this information. I will spend some time to study the info that you give above.

 

Here is the chart from their Z590 affordable video that shows you which one has the best VRMs:




You could literally just pick one of the top 5 listed and be good to go, so then you move into price and any extra features you seek. If you already have memory on hand, double check against their QVL to make sure your memory will work (it most likely would anyhow).

NOTE: When you see an MSI board running LLC2, that is actually the same as LLC 7 on Asus (they are inverse) and Gigabyte Turbo LLC is basically the same thing. All three provide a bit more voltage than specified in the BIOS (1.350v).

 

I take a different approach and sift through reviews looking for complaints. Comparing all the data is kind of pointless if there's production issues that cause things to fail.

For my 8700K build I've been through 3 different boards / cases due to changing HW attached to them. They all performed well and didn't have any issues. 2 x Asrock / 1 x MSI

Don't sink money into a board w/o a good reason such as # of ports you connect things to or slots for cards. i.e. if you're going to setup RAID then you need at least 4 SATA ports, if you're planning on boosting your network speeds allocate a slot for a better card whether 2.5G / 5G / 10G.

If you need more slots then Z590m isn't the best option as the Z590 ATX format may provide up to 6 slots for cards. When I fully loaded some boards with 2 x GPU + other cards it came in handy to have the right spacing on the board since they usually slip a 1x slot between the 16x slots. The right case w/ 7 cutouts in the back allows moving things around for optimal placement / slot use.

 

Based on the screenshot that you gave above, I think the MSI Z590-A Pro might have the best value for money without sacrificing much on the VRM temperature. I think I will go for the MSI Z590-A Pro like you, but I will consider the MSI Z590 Torpedo or ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus Wi-Fi if I have a good reason why I should go for any one of these 2 more expensive motherboards.

I am still new with this LLC2 thing. It might take some time to study about this

 

Agree with this thing to a certain extent, because I watched a video by Linus Tech Tips a few days ago about an m.2 SSD of the same brand but manufactured at 6 different dates perform differently because all of them had different components (this might happen due to design revisions when the same products are manufactured at a different time ad factories). There might be a possibility that the motherboard that I buy in my

I am still a beginner in this kind of thing. I do can spend some time to study about the number of ports, slots, etc, but I need more time to do that because I am still new to it. Plus at the moment the computer will be used mostly for MATLAB programming, so I have no idea if I need the extra features at the moment. All this time I use only one GPU and most of the GPU that I've own so far are mid-range or low-end GPU, so I don't think I need the dual GPU capability (at least for not).

Btw, do you have any problem with ASRock motherboards all this time? I start to be afraid of that brand after watching its negative reviews by Hardware Unboxed

 

I've been running AsRock for a couple of years now and no problems at all. I didn't have any issues with the MSI either.

I didn't find the need to spend 2X the money on something that does the same function. It's all the same PCB / Solder in the end. Slots / Lanes are more important for moving data around.

Depending on what "project" I was working on or reverse engineering made a difference on which MOBO / case I would choose.

Deciding on a case might be a good place to start to limit your options a bit. Going mATX / 590m would limit the peripherals to 3-4 slots in which you could use for different cards. This will reduce your options on boards as well since there's fewer matx boards typically. Since the one photo I posted mentioned 3-4 PCI options it would be perfect for maxing it out w/o worrying about which bus mux is being used to funnel data back to the CPU / RAM. mATX if you do it right will have a small footprint for wherever you place it as well. I've got a Node 804 and it's basically a cube that takes up about a square foot of space. It has plenty of room for 10 fans / 8xHDD + 4 x 2.5" drives as well. My aim was to have plenty of room for drives, adequate card slots, and great ventilation. Maxing it out with 10 fans in the case allows for segregation airflow on each side of the MOBO plate allowing dedicated fans on the HDD side that's compartmentalized from the CPU side of the case. On the CPU side I have 7 fans pushing air front to back + 3 fans on the CPU air cooler. Though the MOBO only has 4 fans headers I found besides using splitters that Artic P12 PWM fans can be daisy chained together using a single header for 3-5 fans w/o exceeding the voltage / blowing a "fuse". It works well for cable management as well not having to run them all back across the path cluttering things up. They're idle speeds allows them to be pretty quiet as well. They ramp up when the system is under load and since there's several pushing air at the same time off the same sensor it doesn't last long to bring the temps down and ramp down again. They run about $40 for 5 of them to a pack.

 

At this moment I have 2 unused ATX case and 1 unused micro ATX case. All this time I only use 1 GPU, 1 SSD (either SATA or M.2), 1 HDD, and 1 WiFi Card, so I think people like me don't need the larger PCI bandwidth, more m.2 slots, too many PCIe slots, crossfire/SLI GPU configuration, etc. The most heavy workload that I do all this time is just the MATLAB programming, so I think even the fast new gen USB is not necessary for people like me. Plus I think the micro ATX might already be enough for me because I don't use many expansion cards, SSDs, HDDs etc (but I am ok with the standard ATX anyway if the price is reasonable).

Btw, I am doing PhD in mechatronics engineering. I use the MATLAB software for my PhD. All this time I use MATLAB on my 2 following old computers:
1) Dell Optiplex 7010 Small Form Factor desktop with Intel Core i7-3770 (might be made in 2013).
2) Dell Precision Tower 5810 media workstation with Intel Xeon E5-1620 (might be made in 2014).

I bought an MSI GP65 Leopard laptop with i7-10750H last year and I notice that the MSI laptop is around 3 times faster that the 2 old Dell desktop and workstation. I took around 2 solid weeks to get a result for my PhD using the MATLAB program in January 2021, that means I might have taken around 1.5 month to get the same result using my old Dell desktop and workstation.

I can keep on using the MSI GP65 Leopard for my future PhD work, but I have 1 problem - that laptop produce too much heat and fan noise under heavy workload (including my long-duration MATLAB program). I have no problem if I work in the hot and noisy room for a few hours, but working in that kind of environment for weeks or months will make us become unfomfortable and stressful

The reason why I am searching for a new desktop right now is to get a fast PC for running my long-duration MATLAB code, but still doesn't make my working environment hot and noisy beyond a comfortable level for a long duration. In my situation right now, the important thing is fast speed (but still affordable) and low noise + low heat emmision. The expandability features of the motherboard is less important in my current situation.

Last one, I do know that gaming laptop produce more noise than the desktop counterpart (due to the small heat sink size and small air flow rate inside the laptop), that is the reason why this time I would like to go for the desktop if necessary.

 

Desktop for long term operations running @ 100% CPU will make it easier to cope with for sure.

Here's what I would do then. Pick a board / CPU and stuff it into one of your cases as both mATX / ATX will fit into an ATX case w/o any issues.

Get a good cooler w/ at least 2 fans if not 3 on the cooler like the Scythe. Since you're going to peg the CPU when running MATLAB consider a 3rd fan on the cooler using a 3 way PWM splitter. Instead of paste on mine I run a Graphite "pad" between the CPU / Cooler and it works great w/o the mess or worries that it will dry out over the long term.

Grab a couple of boxes of the Artic P12 or P14 PWM fans to max out the airflow to keep things cool. The reason for these particular fans is they chain together with each other w/o using additional fan headers on the MOBO. 2 packs of them should only run ~$100 shipped. I was monkeying around with one of them and one of the fins cracked causing it to be off balance, e-mailed the company and they sent a replacement w/o any issue / documentation. They stand by their products and there's no fuss if you need a replacement. They're fairly quiet under normal circumstances and they're not overly loud when they ramp up but, you will hear them which is a good thing if you're pegging the CPU you want some reassurance that things are being cooled.

For the drive I would go with the PNY CS3030 1TB ($130)as it's pretty quick w/o the sticker shock of the Samsung's.

RAM - I'm not sure how intensive the program is for using RAM but at least 16GB should get you going and 32GB might be preferred 'Team" is the least expensive stuff on the market and I run it in my "server" w/o issue for the past ~3 years. 32GB would run ~$150 for a 2x16GB / ~$75 for a 2x8GB

 

I hope the desktop also solves my hot room problem, not just the noisy fan problem. I have 1 bad news. My brother might change his mind and keep his i7-11700K, so I have to buy CPU on my own. Just in case if the overclockable i7-11700K has the potential to generate too much heat and make my room hot, I will consider to downgrade to the non-overclockable i7-11700 (or i9-11900).

Done. I'll go for the MSI Z590 A-Pro if I want something cheap or ASUS ROG STRIX Z590 A Gaming WiFi if I want to have something more high end.

I plan to use my unused Coolermaster MasterAir MA410M (as shown in the link below, I hope it is enough:
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/cpu-air-coolers/masterair-ma410m/

Will consider this if necessary.

All this time I've been using the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, so I think I will stick with it.

Understood. Will also consider this.

I also plan to use my unused Intel 1TB SATA SSD at the moment to cut cost. It is not as fast as the m.2 NVME SSD, but at least I can reduce the budget for my rig. Will only buy the m.2 NVME once I have extra budget in the future.

I will also buy an HDD for this desktop as a secondary drive. My 1st choice is the 2TB 7200RPM Seagate Baracuda. However, I notice that the price of the 2TB 7200RPM Seagate Skyhawk at my area surrently does not differ much from the Baracuda counterpart. I might even try the Skyhawk if i'm crazy enough even though that Skyhawk is for surveilance sistem.

My MSI GP65 Leopard comes with 16GB DDR4 2666MHz (even though the 10th gen Intel Core CPUs can support up until DDR4 2933MHz, maybe MSI purposely gave the 2666MHz memory to cut cost or to clear their unused/extra 2666MHz memory). So far I am happy with the 16GB DDR4 2666MHz on my MSI laptop.

For the new desktop, I plan to buy the Hyper X Fury, 1 x 16GB DDR4 3200MHz (because 2 x 8GB DDR4 3200MHz is slightly more expensive). I'm not sure whether the performance difference while running in dual channel vs single channel is significant or not. Just in case if not significant, I will just use a single stick at the moment until I have the budget to buy another stick in the future.

One more thing. I have no idea whether this Hyper X Fury runs at 3200MHz without XMP enable or not.

That is all that I would like to update. Thank you.

 

Heat - it's unavoidable though the bigger the case the more dissipation before exhaust. You'll still get heat but, it shouldn't come out of the case as hot if the fans are all pushing / pulling in the ight configuration. Also, get longer power / video cables to get the case away from you if it's an issue.

Board - the WIFI usually isn't the best as the Intel AX210 is the best card on the market right now. AX201 has some minor issues I ran into with using it but, there's a $5 difference between them and you can get the AX210 for ~$25 and replace what they include.

Cooler - if you get all the RGB and don't have a side window it's kind of pointless. https://www.amazon.com/Original-Design-Towers-Cooler-SCFM-2000/dp/B07QMK5R45

Case - since you're going to need airflow I would go for something like this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FFJ0H3Q/ I would have used this but, for RAID it doesn't have enough bays for drives w/o modification.

SSD / NVME - if you want to complete LAB's faster NVME @ $100 or less would be the option to go for but, reusing an SSD should be fine @ 550MB/s vs 2000-3000MB/s of the NVME
2nd drive - skip the spinner option and just go SSD on that as well. -
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003J5JB12/ @ $209 550MB/s
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GCLLKDC/ @ $239 1800MB/s

NVME 2TB
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TY2TN64/ @ $250 3500MB/s
https://www.amazon.com/PNY-CS3030-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B07QM2HD7B @ $245 3500MB/s ( I use the 1TB version and it performs well , even under load)

RAM - always go with a set of 2 or 4 so you can use the dual channel functionality of the board to speed things up. Depending on the CPU you end up with make sure you hit the minimum speed required just to rule out any issues with it booting / posting as I'm running DDR4 3000 but when configuring a new system with 10th/11th CPU it complains about speed not compatible, So, pcpartpicker.com is a good resource to doublecheck things.

as for RAM branding? it doesn't really make a difference as they all come from the same factories with different labels on it for the MFG. No need to pay a markup for Hyper X if someone else sells the same speed / timing for cheaper.

 

Understood. I will upgrade to a better case if my old case is not suitable for the heat management.

Understood. I will also consider about this.

At the moment, the most cost effective way in my situation is to use the underutilised RGB cooler that I have even my old case has no transparent side window. Will go for the non RGB cooler whenever I have the budget in the future.

Understood. I will also consider about this.

Also the same situation - I think I will go for my underutilised 1TB 2.5" SATA for cost efficiency. Will upgrade to the m.2 NVME whenever I have extra budget in the future.

Understood. Thank you very much for your advice,

 

Guys, sorry for my late reply. I haven't opened this page for a long time because I was very busy lately. By the way, I have finalised almost all the components that I would like to buy for my desktop based on your inputs. Thank you very much.

However, there is one last component that I still haven't finalised, which is the HDD as the secondary drive. I have no idea whether I should just go for the 2TB Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM or the 2TB Seagate Skyhawk which the shopkeeper told me also 7200RPM (but I could not verify about this from the product datasheet). I have created a new thread just to ask this question, which is available in the link below:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/seagate-barracuda-versus-seagate-skyhawk.836479/

Feel free to give feedback on the question whenever you are free. Thank you very much and have a nice day.

 

7200's are a bit overrated in my book. They generate more heat for a slight gain. pairing up a couple of 5400's gets you 400MB/s between the controllers. No need to pay the premium if you don't need to.
I say 400MB/s with my Raid 10 setup using 4X8TB WD Red's. I ran internal disk speed test prior to venturing into a 5gbps network upgrade to confirm not needing 10gbps. I can't recall though the single drive controller speed off the top of my head though but, it seems to be higher than the quote below as R10 = 2 pairs / 1 striped / 1 mirror.... if the striped of 2 drives gets 400MB/s it should be ~200MB/s drive or a bit less.

Depends on how deep into a Raid adventure you want to go though and there's other ways to squeeze MB/s out of a storage system like SSD / NVME Caching.


Although 7200 RPM hard drives are without a doubt faster than 5400 RPM drives, 5400 RPM drives offer an average of 100 MB/s read and writes speeds while 7200 RPM drives deliver an average of 120 MB/s read and writes speeds. If you are trying to decide, consider that both drives are virtually identical with the difference that a 7200 RPM drive is around 20 percent faster than a 5400 RPM drive.


If you want performance, then you should consider the 7200 RPM hard drives. However, if the goal is to store files (for example, on a NAS or low-power server), then you should consider the 5400 RPM drives.
https://pureinfotech.com/difference-5400-7200-rpm-hard-drives/