*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Looking forward to more of your bench results. That will push me to do some myself. My new RAM won't be here until next week. Took advantage of Newegg's discount.

 

Should be around 23500 with nice fast ram. More works and it will be fine
This is [email protected] and 2666MHz ram

 

Well now the Redmond Retards as @Mr. Fox would call them (among other things) won't let me install Chrome browser. It downloads but when just short of completing the installation I get a BSOD. Happens no matter what version of 10 I use. Bastards.

 

Tested install an another browser?

 

You made sure to re enable the normal services for the install?

 

Hey guys, just quick question does unlocking a BIOS say via the Svet BIOS "unlock" the processor? Or will I still be restricted to what/how much I can OC by?

I was considering OCing the CPU, but wasn't sure if unlocking BIOS is equivalent to having an unlocked CPU (eg. i7XXXX+K)?

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

It's nice to finally be getting to the projects. As for the physics score, just a tad... This 8700K went from new in box straight to the mobo... No delid, no LM etc... Just stock so it's as expected. The Ram isn't even tuned yet either.

Thanks brother you too.

"This 8700K went from new in box straight to the mobo... No delid, no LM etc... Just stock so it's as expected. The Ram isn't even tuned yet either. The focus was to show it having post(ed) at 4600. "

Try upping the voltage?

I'd recommend Brave browser. It's built off of Chrome and way leaner with built in ad blockers.

Hey there. Which system / motherboard do you have? Laptop? Unlocking the bios can give you more options and control to tune... You'd still have to manually overclock your cpu in the bios or using software, but with the software it works hand in hand in respect to what the bios is limited to.

When motherboards are locked down in often prevents you from the very features that you need to properly overclock, such as voltage control, power limits etc...

 

I installed Brave on my laptop now I hope it will install on my desktop.

 

Yes I did.

 

MSI GS65-8SE.

I wanted to increase frequency by setting it higher than 41x.

The other way would be by increasing BCLK which I am told is unlocked with the BIOS tweak.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

No I haven't but I'm going to try Brave browser on my desktop as brother @iunlock suggested

 

Sounds good. It should be good. After installing, go into settings and turn off the auto save stuff etc... I also use Duckduckgo search engine (doesn't track or mine your searches / data) over google and it is fantastic...

Nice. Let us know how it goes. Happy OC'ing!

I'd also recommend using Firefox ESR instaed of regular (consumer) Firefox. It's much leaner without a lot of the bloat. FF-ESR is kind of like LTS for operating systems etc...

FF-ESR is my main browser for almost everything, but since I've locked it down so much sometimes the commie sites that wants premission to everything forces me to use Chrome (in this case Brave which I like) in order to check out etc...

If Firefox isn't locked down it handles everything very well.

If you want to "overclock/tweak," your Firefox:
The extensions/plug-ins that I use are:
ublock origin -> no script -> decentraleyes -> https everywhere -> privacy badger -> webRTC -> user agent switcher... in that order to the screen shot below.


* No-Script is very powerful. If you need help or a quick run down on how to use it I'd be happy to help.

If interested in locking down FF, let me know.

 

If your RAM is overclocked, set it to default in the BIOS and see if Chrome will install normally without a BSOD. If it does, go into Chrome advanced settings and disable the hardware acceleration and allow crap to run in the background options, then set your RAM overclock again.



If you want to keep it that way forever, use Autoruns and disable (uncheck) all instances of Google Updates to block Google from making any changes to Chrome.

 

Happy Fathers Day to all the Fathers out there. @Mr. Fox @JoeT44 and I'm sure there's more.

Bless you guys and Happy OC'ing!

 

Thanks, bro. Happy Father's Day to you as well.

 

And to you also Bro and thanks for all the good info!

 

I worked out that if Firestrike Physics score scales properly with frequency and increased cores then 8700K at 5.2Ghz should be getting about 24500 points for Physics score if I extrapolate from my own result of my 6700K at 4.65Ghz, which is why I asked if Firestrike Physics can't quite fully utilise 12 threads, so it sounds like Firestrike Physics can't quite fully utilise all 12 threads with great efficiency?

This is how I extrapolated it from my 4 core 4.65Ghz 6700K: 14600*5.2/4.65*1.5 = 24490 physics points. Looks like there is probably some diminishing returns over 8 threads in that Physics benchmark then if you guys aren't getting around 24,500 points, especially considering that 8700K is Coffee Lake with slight ipc improvement over my Skylake CPU as well as less performance impact from Spectre/Meltdown mitigations on Coffee Lake (which I have activated).

 

With really good cooling possibly, but 24500 is really high for 52x. Maybe in a near perfect scenario, but even then it's a huge stretch. The math works out (theoretically / not real world though as I haven't seen any capable at those clocks to reach those figures), but there is a lot of loss to scaling, which is dependent on the balance of how well it's tuned + SL. If you can find an 8700K that can do 24500 on ambient temp let me know lol... I'll buy.

 

The math works, but it does not apply. We can blame it on Fire Strike because it's a GPU benchmark and doesn't give much credit for a healthy CPU. I think it's safe to say that it doesn't scale properly.

Here's one of my old Fire Strike runs 5.4GHz with 8700K.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/15903063


Edit: Here's a better one I found in my benchmark archive...
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/15284348

 

Yeah, so it's not scaling on the Physics test very well with those extra cores (not 1:1 linear scaling) - good to know what you can expect though for 8700K, gives some reference points to aim at for iunlock and anyone else with an 8700K.

 

Whatever math you do it won't be 100% correct. What ram speed, high scores vs. clocks etc. Even what OS version you use will impact. If I did your math and could use a lot faster ram with same 4.6GHz the points would be near 25.500 for [email protected].


But you won't get 100% scaling going from 4 up to 6 cores. Same also from 6 and up to 8.

 

Yep, I agree. (You don't have Spectre/Meltdown initiated for that 6700K score, whereas I do on my calculations, and that might be Win7 and not Win10, but yeah).

 

@iunlock - here is the info you are looking for, bro. Resistor part number in the quote above.

 

Windows 10 but no Spectre/Meltdown patches. This wasn't topic back in 2017

 

Thanks brother for the confirmation. 10 ohms it is.

 

Hey, we got a new Intel overclocking software for the latest 9xxx series CPUs - apparently it auto overclocks individual cores. I don't really know exactly what that means, if they're referring to overclocking every individual physical CPU core to a different max overclock depending on how stable that core is, or are they perhaps talking about 1 core/2 core/3core/all core loads having different max overclocks (which is what we have been able to do in the past anyway).

Here's the guru3d article: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/i...ftware-and-is-to-release-new-core-x-cpus.html

Here's the link to the intel overclocking software: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/processors/core/performance-maximizer.html

I'm looking forward to you guys testing this, seeing what it's all about, and if it's any good?

EDIT: found out there's a whole lot of caveats and requirements to using this software, listed in the release notes ( https://downloadmirror.intel.com/28772/eng/Intel(R)_Performance_Maximizer_1.0.1_Release_Notes.pdf). It creates a seperate 16GB partition on one of your drives for a start, and that's naming just one curiosity - I think all these caveats are gonna be a bit of a turn off for most enthusiasts here!

 

Also, anyone out there with a high end NVMe drive, like 970 Evo or 970 Pro. I recently bought a budget NVMe drive called Sabrent Rocket 1TB that has high end specs (I think I mentioned it maybe a week ago here), but someone in the SSD thread asked if I could test CrystalDiskMark at different Test Sizes - 16GiB, and 32GiB. The test normally defaults to just 1GiB. Anyway, I saw write slow downs on some of the variables in the 16GiB and 32GiB tests, I'll attach my results at the end of this post. Could someone with high end 970 Evo or 970 Pro drives (or similar) run CrystalDiskMark at those increased Test Sizes and post up your results? (I can't find any 16GiB or 32GiB tests on NVMe drives using Google).

Here are my results:

 

I don't think the majority of members that frequent this thread will use software to automate their CPU overclocking. It will behoove Intel not to release any OC application that would push their chips to the brink of failure and as such will be useless to me personally. I already know my best and safe everyday OC for my chips. The funny thing (and as mentioned by some commentators from that guru3d article), it wasn't long ago when Intel was telling people not to OC their chips. Such change of heart.

 

Yeah, I see your points you make. I think the one interesting thing about this software is that in the guru3d article it intimates that the overclocking software will apply a different overclock to each of your cores depending on how stable each one is - so customised overclock for each physical core. I'm not sure if I've read into it wrong, but that seemed very different to a conventional overclock, and I was curious to see if it was true & also to see what kind of a difference it made.

EDIT: There's a guy over in the comment section of that Guru3d article that's testing it now, I talked to him about the overclocking individual cores thing, and I think he knows what I mean...and he's gonna test it once it's finished running the auto tune - to see if it's true.

 

Have posted my thoughts about this new tool here http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-owners-lounge.826831/page-1302#post-10924479

Conclusion.
Yeah, A lot of downsides and almost no benefits with this new Intel OC tool. I will continue use ThrottleStop with the superior Prema firmware. Won't spend time on this. Will it be a success? Not for the enthusiasts who like fiddle with own hardware. And I'm not even sure this new tool will be a success to hook up the less interested aka the Average Joe.

 

Interesting, but yea as some of the fellas have said, enthusiasts would prefer flying manually with full control over their OC. The tool may be interesting for gaming and such if it can indeed scale each core to its most efficent frequency, but other than that definitely not for benching. One of the great pleasures of OC'ing and being an enthusiast is having the ability to tune your hardware. I along with many of us here get a thrill of seeing where a silicon stands and how far it can be pushed.

Take for example this fresh new out of the box 8700K that I've just delidded... stock it would do no more than 52x on all cores... now I'm in the process of tuning it to see how efficient I can get it at 53x and hopefully 54x. For a new SKU I'm thrilled to see this chip hitting those numbers.

When I have some free time I might give it a whril to test it out for giggles, but we'll see... the app may be a lot better than a stock auto tune switch in the bios though, since it seems like it won't be overloading the CPU with crazy voltages lol...

Oh neat. Thanks for posting those... I have the 2TB 970 Evo Plus in my daily and 1TB 970 Pro as will. The 960 Pro is in the gaming rig at the moment. I've seen the sabrent drives go on sale often, in fact just today I saw that it's on sale again on amazon lol. It's basically the same relabeled drive as the Inland, corsair, mydigitalssd ssd etc... with this using the Phison E12 controller and sharing the same toshiba 64 layer TLC NAND. The phison E12 runs pretty warm, but it gets the job done. As for the toshiba chips...above average, but definitely not for professional work loads as it degrades at a pretty fast rate with heavy writes.

It's a decent drive for sure, but it does have its limitations as you've experienced with the SLC cache getting exhausted with larger file transfers. For the price though and for the average user it's one heck of a bargain... 2TB for $239, 1TB for $109 etc.. on sale.

I've been tempted to just get one for giggles to throw in the Ryzen build or heck in the external nvme enclosure... hhhmmm....

 

You couldn't run the same tests I did at the increased test sizes could you? I'm trying to compare my drive to the known 'best' performance standards (ie 970 Evo/Evo Plus & 970 Pro), but can't find any 16 and 32GiB CrystalDiskMark tests on the web. I'm curious if those drives have the same write holes that my drive does.

 

you can basically go by the official specs, Samsung is pretty transparent in this regard and lists the TLC speed after the SLC cache has been used up:

970 Evo 2TB
Seq. Read - 3500 MB/S
Seq. Write - 2500 MB/s (SLC Cache) / 1250 MB/s (TLC)

970 Evo Plus 2TB
Seq. Read - 3500 MB/s
Seq. Write - 3300 MB/s (SLC Cache) / 1750 MB/s (TLC)

The 970 Pro are MLC drives, thus they don't require an SLC Cache and provide the full seq. write performance over the whole drive capacity (as long as thermals are in check, of course).

Also note that depending on drive capacity, ssd model and available/free capacity, the SLC Cache can take on various sizes. So you need to take those points into consideration when trying to test the actual TLC NAND performance.

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Can I you mean? Absolutely. I've been busy with this Ryzen build the last few days, but surely I'll do some runs and post them. Now remember, that there are a lot of aspects to SSD's than just peak speeds. The integrity of the memory chips, controller, DRAM. SLC cache size and quality etc... and how all of that works together are major factors to what makes an SSD a good SSD. I've written a piece on explaining what a lot of these competitors are doing in trying to take a piece of the market share by turning up the "water pressure," on their controllers just to reach the numbers in order to compete against Samsung. Most have gone as far as even offering the same length of warranty, which is a bold move, but hey more power to them, although the quality and integrity of their SSD does not match up against Samsung, SKHynix and Intel.

For the the average user / gamer etc... any SSD will suit them pretty well. For professionals... I'll just say this... I don't know one professional in the industries that I'm affiliated with that uses anything but Samsung SSD's. Period. The avg. Joe would never know this type of info., but it's true.. Professional photographers to real professional editors don't mess with anything, but the best. I'm not talking about amateures lol. - But to be clear, any SSD really will suit an average person just fine, so a grab a good deal when you can.

With all that being said, I've just ordered the 2TB Sabrent SSD to use in my external NVMe enclosure to use as a scratch drive lol... It's one heck of a deal. My daily drives that I use in an external enclosure are a 2TB Samsung 860 EVO and 2TB Crucial MX500.

Very well said. The Samsung EVO Plus drives are a Beast... I was using my Samsung 1TB 960 Pro as my game drive, but due to recording my games in high resolution, I've switched to the 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus and I'm very happy with it. I trust their TLC just as much I trust the MLC and in the real world you can't even tell the difference.

 

https://twitter.com/PremaMod/status/1141523351912865793?s=19

If anyone wants to come and bench with us and join the team, please don't hesitate to contact one of our captains @Johnksss @Mr. Fox for an invite.

 

I've been meaning to reply back to your email brother..sorry been so busy with systems... I'll be in touch. Hope all is well.

 

Agreed. I might be a bit "old school" with this, but I would never trust a TLC drive as my main/OS drive. So MLC all the way, and likely gonna stick to the 970 Pro for a looong time, since it will likely be the very last high-performance SSD we see equipped with MLC NAND. As for my media (games, videos, pictures) I'm willing to go the TLC route, but only Samsung. That's why I treated myself to two 4TB 860 Evo's, gonna pick up the second one today, woooo I admit I was thinking about the QVO for a while, but to be honest it's still too new, unproven and also SLOW for my taste Plus, I got one HECK of a deal for both the 4TB 860 Evos on Ebay, that I couldn't pass that up 970 USD total for BOTH, unopened/brand new, shipping/import/tax included Nuff' said!

 

That's awesome bro and congrats. I respect your school view on this subject matter, because I've been following the SSD/storage memory for over a decade+ from before I shot photography and have seen the progression of the manipulation enter the market by low-mid tier companies.

The Samsung 970 Pro is awesome and I use that as my main OS drive as well...the thing is a beast. Before the 970 Pro I was using the 960 Pro as my main OS drive and now it's serving as my main game drive in the desktop rig. Gosh that thing has so much miles on it lol, but I don't think twice about it and it has been running like the day I had first installed it.

When it comes to MLC, TLC, and now the new QLC, I still trust Samsung's TLC over other brands MLC without hesitation. (Ex. I'd trust the proven bullet proof Samsung EVO line over other knock off MLC based memory any day.) Heck, and I mean this when I say this, I would trust Samsung QLC over other brands TLC hands down... this is something I'd be willing to bet on at the NAND craps table lol.

The thing is, I own several brands and have a lot of flight time with them to know how it really does, which is why I'm passionate when it comes to this sector of tech, because unless one follows it closely, they'll often just get tricked by the marketing hype behind inflated numbers through using gamble tactics like over working their controllers and such... it's the nature of the tech industry and everyone wants a piece of the pie.

Going back to your monster storage set up, it's crazy how fast even 8TB of ssd storage can fill up eh? This is why I'm swapping out my 1TB Samsung 960 Pro for the 2TB EVO Plus, because of the game recording files that are huge. As for the future of MLC... I hope that Samsung still comes around to keep producing MLC drives for the consumer market in the future. Even if they stop and only produce MLC for the enterprise realm, do keep in mind that many high end servers use Samsung PM963 Enterprise TLC SSD's in major data centers so again... I'll still take Samsung TLC over other brands MLC any day... tested and proven...

If you get around to picking up a 970 EVO Plus I think you'd be very surprised since you're familiar with the Pro line... it's that good.

 

Cool, I'll be interested to see those 16GiB and 32GiB tests that you're gonna post for your 970 Evo Plus and 970 Pro. I really haven't been able to find any testing on the internet, and I just want to see how far off my drives are from the trusted benchmark that is Samsung SSD.

 

haha im reaaally hoping that those 8TB will last me a while, upgraded from an 5TB external drive and now for the first time completely free of spinning rust with a total of 9.5 TB ssd space wooooo

also used the chance to try out RAID 0 for the first time ever on these two 860 Evos. if anyone is interested i can do a summary/overview of the benches showing in what areas the RAID 0 setup would benefit over using single drives.

Personally, I won't be going the RAID route though, if anything happens to my machine i want to be able to just pull out the drives and read the data off of them in a different system

on another note: really hope those rumors regarding a possible 2TB 970 Pro will come true!

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

I'm currently (very slowly) tuning my memory. I'm going for a 4000 to 4200mhz OC with 1.45 at 15,15,15, 38. Going to be a long and tedious process, but I want to make absolutely sure it is stable.

 

So this happen today...

 

Wow. That truly sucks. Was your rig running when it started leaking? I hope everything survives.

 

Yep, it was running, but I wasn't really doing anything as I was getting read to start uploading scores. I looked over at it a few times and noticed it said overheating. Kind of shook it off then I look a bit closer and seen a puddle dripping from the top of the block down to the MB. I pulled the plug. Board and PSU are fine. I haven't fully put the card back together for rma yet. Working on that now.

 

Small update.
Card seems fine but EVGA still wants me to send everything in, so I'll be shipping it all off on Monday.

 

Very nice. RAM tuning...phew...It can get tedious indeed... looking forward to where you can land it...

Wow...Eject eject...good thing you caught it in time. Also, glad that you're getting it taken care of by evga.

 

Interesting story. If true, people wanting to pick up a new Intel CPU for desktop (and maybe HEDT) may want to wait to see when this happens.
https://segmentnext.com/2019/06/21/intel-cpu-prices-drop-counter-ryzen/

As Stepongzi said of the upcoming Ryzen 3000 chips, it seems a bit like broadwell on the clock speeds (my take on that is Broadwell-e where IPC is higher, lower clocks, winds up hitting about the same as prior gen on performance when overclocked, so not really a fun bench).

Either way, if the price cuts are true, depending on where prices wind up, may mean a person looking at getting a new chip ( @jaybee83 - if you haven't picked one up yet, I know you were looking awhile back), this could be good news!

 

Tis is true.

Same here.

Card was wet, but Vaso save it from a certain death. Same with shop towels. They soaked up a lot of it when it started falling. Along with Vaso in the pcie slot. Without the prep work, I think I would have lost the board, psu, card and block....

 

Great news... That'd be good for us consumers.

As for the new Ryzen, I'm still intrigued for the sake of the price point and for regular usage with gaming etc... It's a lot of engine for the buck and I plan to still do a build with it, however, for enthusiast stuff it still sits where the past Gen did with scaling for the most part. There were some ln2 action going on at the recent shows with the new Ryzen, but the results were as expected.

Nevertheless, AMDs new line will allow them to shine for the time being, while Intel plays defense until the 10nm's get into action.

Glad that the air bags and seat belt saved the board.

 

Oh, I'm not suggesting don't buy AMD's new CPUs. I'm suggesting buy what is right for the person.

Take jaybee for example. He wants a newer chip that slaps down in his old socket with a modified BIOS. It is cheaper than buying a whole new platform. Same with people with Z370 boards and an 8700K. If the price cut is true, that is a 9900K at about $425. That is $25 more than the 3800X and about $95 more than a 3700X. At that point, getting a newer chip to put in the socket makes sense, unless worried about security. Most would opt for the new chip over new platform.

Meanwhile, AMD has said they think the 3700X will be their main seller as it overclocks about to where the 3800X does. That means it still offers value for people building new systems.

Moreover, some people just don't like to see a lower frequency. And if performance is a push, no reason to get a new chip this year (meaning anyone with a 7960X/7980XE/9960X/9980XE or 9900K/F/C for 16-core and 8-core, respectively). But, if you are looking to upgrade the CPU, same platform, no new MB cost, etc., makes sense.

Either way, I've got to wait for the new TR for my platform, which is like 4-7 months. Should at least have the heat better spread out than mainstream, higher binned chips, so should have a good performance boost for me with gen 1 TR.

Also, from what is known, no roadmap for 10nm on desktop (yes for mobile and server). I'd be surprised if we don't have to wait for 7nm Intel for them to truly hit back on desktop (which should pack a wallop when they do). Two years of lagging on desktop isn't a horrible thing (meaning sales, not performance, which even then, AMD only has 18% on desktop and is projected for an additional 6%, meaning Intel will still hold 76% of that market; whereas the DIY community, a subset of the entire desktop market, has flipped to buying AMD 2 to 1). So in full context, analysts see this as not fully changing the equation. Cutting prices for competitiveness makes sense. And, overall, consumer wins, regardless of what you buy.

Edit: Although it also means resell values on Intel chips may drop moving forward and Intel may not retain as much as it used to in the past.