*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

Guys, my point is simple. Everyone was screaming Meh Performance, saying it was 60+%, sometimes double, the performance of a 2080 and like 50+% faster than the 2080 Ti. The truth was far from that, looking to be 25-35% over the 2080 Ti and 35-45% over the 2080 Super. That is barely hitting the generational 40% increase threshold most are looking for. That also means that 3070 is less. And rumors increasingly suggest that one doesn't hit the 40% generational jump.

Now, of course, if you are on Maxwell or Pascal, hit it up. It's a good value, with the 3080 still being worth it for many and likely the best value until a 3080 Ti. But, ANYONE with a 2080 or 2080 Ti, really, it is hard for me to argue to chase that underwhelming fireball (the thicc boy 3090).

This is saying it is relatively underwhelming versus what people expected.

None of this is saying the card is good or bad in and of itself. It is all about the value. Trying to compare it to a crap overpriced card (performance was good, not worth the price) is absurd. It shows the value wasn't there versus what you got for your money.

That doesn't make the card good or bad. But, you are right Talon that people will eat it up and buy Nvidia because they dropped first. But let's ignore that NUMBERS ARE LOW BECAUSE OF BAD YIELDS. They are even trying to cover up that shortage by trying to pretend a crypto craze is about to start, even though the images were proven to be something other than what was captioned.

 

I expect 3080 is still the way to go for those who absolutely have to play in 4K. The EOL 2080 Ti will probably with time struggle to keep up 60 fps at 4K on the highest settings. Could be they should wait until 3080 Ti. But this card will come with a higher pricepoint (depends on AMD).

If you're luck and get +$600 for your 2080 Ti maybe the time is now to sell what you have. The price will only go one way... Downwards.

 

Hell I might grab another 2080Ti. I’ll take a used Kingpin with the 240mm already attached to it. That’ll run with a stock 3080. Plus, 3080’s are gonna cost $1,000 damn dollars anyways.

The 3080 may not be hugely faster than a overclocked 2080Ti. But, everyone will probably be breaking 21K timespy graphics with these things on just air cooling easily with a good overclock.

That is good performance for $700 dollars. For the lucky few who get one.

 

I dropped my 2080 Ti for just shy of $1000 cash over a month ago. After I step up my 2060 Super to a 3070 and dump it for near retail and grab a 3080 AIB at $800 I won't be out much cash at all and will get a nice bump in perf. Only thing that annoys me is I know they will still be bringing the 3080 Ti with 20gb to market in 5-6 months at $799-$999 unless AMD is super competitive. Then maybe they go to $699 and drop 3080 to $599 like they did with Pascal Ti launch. Either way the 3090 just looks to be poor value at it's price point.Hopefully inital stock on both cards is decent. @ajc9988 I had not heard that, source?

 

The mass inflation has begun! Purchase your 3080 for $1,200 lol. All pre-orders are sold out. I want to vomit. The graphics card market is so ridiculous.

 

I dropped my KPE for 1350.00 a few weeks ago.

I have my eye on that 3090 though, might grab a 3080 to play with when they are actually for sale at a normal price from normal venders.

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7491...rds-tight-supply-until-end-of-year/index.html

If you watch many youtubers, quite a few have mentioned low early supply. Red Gaming Tech is one channel that has mentioned that.

As to crypto:

 

Which means you still have some time to sell your 2080 Ti without going into a huge loss Maybe worth a few weeks with no gaming, LOOL

 

Exactly. Once people realize low supply, price goes back up.

 

The graphics card market, like most markets, is a reflection of the imbeciles driving it. The kiddos need to be one of the first in their clique to have the new GPU in order to feel good about themselves. Hard to place a price tag on self-esteem when it's based on being accepted by a group that thrives on idiocy. Just let them burn out and wait to buy a new GPU after the prices fall. Games will continue to play fine with older GPUs for a long, long time. Nobody actually needs the ability to play at 4K or 8K with maxed-out settings. If anyone tells you they do, they're in that idiot bucket of people that can't wait to hurry up and spend $1500 on $750 GPU... but, can't really give you a legitimate reason why they need to. It's because that's what their friends on Facepoot and Twatter talk about and if all of them believe that's important it has to be true.

TL;DR - Can't fix stupid.

 

I have already sold both of the 2080Ti’s that I had. And I and running a 1660Ti now “Cries”

I had the Aorus eGPU game box 2080Ti, and a MSI Ventus GP OC 2080Ti.

I pulled $1,250 for the game box, and $1,350 for the MSI Ventus “A” bin, which was unopened and new. I sold both at peak market, when you couldn’t purchase a brand new 2080Ti anywhere.

 

Yeah, if you sold about a week before the reveal, complete gold.

Now, you wait for the new cards. But you at least got a lot of your money out of your cards.

 

As well stay away from the ++$1000 purchase

 

I’m gonna be patient this generation. I’d really like to buy a Galax RTX 3080 HOF WC edition if they make one?

 

They will only be available to world-famous overclockers in limited quantities as a publicity stunt like everything else worth buying. The good stuff (including cancer-free magic firmware) is never available to the rest of us at any price. We might actually match or beat the celebrities and they can't allow that to happen. It just wouldn't be fair to the celebrities that get everything for free. The rest of us get soldering irons and SPI programmers and voided warranties if we want our consumer-grade broken digital dung to function in a manner that somewhat aligns with our expectations.

 

Soldering a standard 3080 is an option too haha. Maybe we won’t have to this time around.

The whole NON-A 2080Ti thing was such a gimmick.

I just got this message today from the guy who bought my 2080Ti eGPU which was a non-A that I stacked the resistors on to. He purchased another 2080Ti eGPU, which is locked at the default 250 watt. He uses them both to crypto mine with. Here is his current situation.

obviously the eGPU I sold him is full tilt! And sucks every drop of the internal 450 watt PSU that is inside of the enclosure haha



image uploader

 

I use this to tie me over until we finally get good AIB RTX3000 series cards are normal prices!

 

It rarely makes sense to upgrade generation to generation unless top dog performance is your objective and chasing the 3090 suddenly makes perfect sense.

As for everyone initially saying performance was insane, that was a product of controlled benchmarks and Nvidia's rainbows and unicorns presentation.

And as I said in my first response:

Everyone dumped all over Nvidia when the 2000 series launched and the pricing was absurd (by my standards) and performance gains were modest and the decreased value was harped upon. I gladly skipped it and went with a 5700xt because the cards were ridiculously priced by my own personal standards but clearly there were buyers out there and to each their own and their own personal criteria.

Now, we have Nvidia reversing trend and prices are lowered by a significant amount AND you are getting ~25% more performance than the previous generation 2080ti (top dog). To not recognize the massive increase in value doesn't make sense. I won't crap all over Nvidia on this one in terms of value like I did the previous generation. $699 for a 3080 is right where it should be.

Call it a price correction if that works better for you.

I'm cautiously keeping an eye out on the 3080 and even 3090 and can't wait to see what the 6000 series has to bring to the table.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/4547575_

https://hwbot.org/submission/4547567_

https://hwbot.org/submission/4547524_

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/50285061#

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/23467581

 

I like your way of thinking, expanding an AIO-based loop! The results speak for themselves. I think I'd add some inhibitors now that the original mix has been diluted though. Also, while I'm not sure about your specific AIO, most of them are mixed metal loops, with a copper waterblock and an aluminium radiator. Galvanic corrosion tends not to be an issue due to anti-corrosive additives in the AIO coolant. Perhaps you've thought about that already, but I figured I'd point it out just in case.

 

First, this is a billion dollar company. YOU SHOULD NOT BE DEFENDING ANY CORPORATION. Brand loyalty is for chumps and you are an adversary to the company! The company always wants to take more of your money and you always want to pay less. That is competition between you and your vendor. ANYONE that distorts that relationship is a FOOL.

Second, you just admitted that the company LIED TO YOU ABOUT PERFORMANCE, then defend them saying they had a a good reason to lie to you. Let's apply that to you significant other cheating on you then lying about it. Are you so forgiving? How about a politician lying to you? Do you still support them? How about your kids if you have any?

My point is clear, IF A COMPANY IS LYING AND MISLEADING CONSUMERS TO GAIN MORE SALES AND BUILD HYPE, maybe we need more enforcing of false advertisement laws. Unfortunately, unless fraud, many times it is only the companies THAT THEY COMPETE WITH that can bring those suits, meaning nothing gets done so that they all can fudge the numbers for sales, even though truth in advertising is an EXCEPTION to free speech under the First Amendment.

Third, Nvidia IS NOT REVERSING ANYTHING. This is how scared they are of AMD's releases. They pre-emptively kept prices THE SAME AS LAST TIME!!! THAT IS NOT BRINGING PRICES DOWN! In fact, the only card who had a price change was the 3090, and that went UP by $500. See, Nvidia started binning chips. Everyone bought the binned variant because it overclocked better. So everyone thinks of the INFLATED price of that variant. But the BASE PRICE was $500 and $700. In fact, after a little while, it was COMMON to find even the binned variant at those prices. The same is not true of the 2080 Ti, which practically had the $1200 as the floor even though the price of the non-binned variant was supposed to be $1000. So that went up 25-50%, depending where you started from. Yet you are trying to tell me Nvidia is the good guy here "dropping prices." *rolls eyes*.

Instead, as I said, they are pretty sure AMD can compete on raw performance, just not on FEATURE PERFORMANCE, which is Raytracing and DLSS. Sure, AMD has their variant of upsampling that is decent. How it stacks against DLSS 2.1? We don't know and that very well could lean Nvidia's way. Raytracing? Nvidia wins. How much these matter yet? Not much, but people hope it is growing. Cyberpunk is an example of why people are hopeful.

But that shows NONE OF WHAT YOU SAID was out of the kindness of Jensen's heart! It was completely unrelated. Then your crap on it being a "price correction" is similarly absurd.

And that doesn't even account for Nvidia calling the 3080 the "flagship," then introducing a card above it. People are calling the 3090 a Titan replacement. I CALL BULLCRAP! I was one of them that got caught in thinking they were doing that with the 2080 Ti last time. I'm not getting caught with my pants down again. Nvidia is lying to hope that AMD releases at a certain level of performance and certain pricing to jump in with more cards. That is called strategy. If you jump now, you won't see that later.

But trying to act like this is some great value proposition, let me hold the value in one hand and poo in my other hand. My point is, even after I said MULTIPLE TIMES that the 3080 is the only card to BARELY hit the generational performance without a price increase to make it worth consideration, you are not winning just because of generational performance.

I tried telling Turing purchasers a simple truth: IF YOU PAY A PRICE INCREASE, YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE PERFORMANCE, which means you are NOT getting the generational benefit of the bargain. Here applied, even if the 3090 gets 50% more performance than the 2080 Ti, you have to subtract 25% at minimum because YOU ARE PAYING 25% MORE. That means the only performance uplift not paid for is 25%, thereby NOT MEETING THE 40% THRESHOLD. This is basic math and principles. Do you get them yet?

Edit: https://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/nvidia-s-ultimate-play


As more rumors discussing pricing of the cards.

Edit 2: More showing on pricing of the Turing series-


Notice the $500 price point on the 2070 and 2070 Super. Guess what you will find with the 2080 and 2080 Super?

Edit 3: Here's a quote from Futurama EVERYONE should remember when thinking about large corporations:

"Steve Castle: Fry, I'm an 80s guy. Friendship to me means that for 2 bucks I'd beat you with a pool cue until you got detached retinas."

 

Happy Saturday.

 

Yeah.....I have better things to do than even attempt to unbox that. Decades of forum experience has taught me when to quietly move along.

Have a nice day.

 

One thing I do see is how competitive the 5700 XT has become on average with driver maturation.

I've used and enjoyed my 5700xt 50th AE for over a year now and it is basically a 2070 Super performance wise at this point.

Any and all future 3000 or 6000 series purchases will be contingent on me moving from 1600p -> 4k and comparative performance.

 

Ranting is healthy. I am pretty sure the release has prevented me from acting on the urge to do and say some pretty horrible or hurtful things.

 

My overall points are: 1) don't defend companies, they are not your friend, 2) pricing never dropped (and with artificial type scarcity, other sellers will cost way more than MSRP), and 3) the performance is not some amazing jump.

Now, your post on the 5700 XT performance I like.

But anyone coming from the Polaris, Vega, Maxwell, and Pascal generations or earlier even to the Ampere or Radeon lines will have a good time. The products from both companies should be good. Pricing and relative performance is where it gets dicey, especially when comparing it to last gens cards.

I'm just waiting for AMD and any additional Nvidia cards to be announced, then picking the best around a price point.

I just don't understand consumers trying to defend a company and their pricing. If you had actually corrected me on points instead of trying to spin things (and misstating last gen was more expensive), then this never would have come this far.

 

I reused the fluid that was inside of the AIO, and added it to the distilled water. It had the consistency of straight antifreeze. So I figured it could be diluted down. We shall see how long this setup will last.

 

Truer words were never spoken. I 100% agree with that and this...

They're in it to make money by hook or by crook and, with extremely rare exceptions, most large corporations have no ethical or moral standards. They primarily exist to enrich the lives of their executive staff and shareholders/stockholders. They have no problem finding creative ways of distorting the truth and using deception to lure the stupid into their cash extraction web. They may have started on a road paved with good intentions once upon a time. That's a two-way road, so I'm in it for me. I only give a damn about what I want and the notion of brand loyalty is a concept lacking intelligence.

 

This just showed up. Looks like one of the debug led’s fell off though. I’m still gonna use it!

 

Tearing down my whole system all over again!! I’m ready to move to a test bench. I even use my PC for school everyday. I’m just so sick of a case. I’m always altering my computer a case doesn’t make sense.

 

Definitely the way to go. You'll never want to go back to a case again.

 

Lapping water block plates on a surface plate. Currently at single micron levels. Debating using sub-micron paste/ slurry or just using red jewelers Rouge and blue to finish it off by hand (gives the mirror finish and makes any scratches from the polishing paper less noticeable if visible at all after). Only using the aluminum foil on the block to protect against water soak through and from any dislodged grit from getting between the block and the paper. I know it sacrifices a little on accuracy of flatness, but likely not enough to matter here.

 

I had to cut a hole in my case in order to fit this X299 Dark’s wise ass in lol.

it was touching against the case before. And then I realized I wouldn’t be able to plug anything in, unless I remove material.

Saw zaw to the rescue!!

 

If you turn ON your 7980XE you get.

7980XE+ON= XEON

 

I've thought about going open bench before, but then I love the look of cases too. It does make it hard to get in there when you're making constant adjustments though.

 

Never have I ever thought a corporation is my friend. I go where the tech is. It hasn't been AMD in quite some time in terms of top dog performance, but they tend to keep Nvidia and Intel somewhat honest. As a consumer in regards to your relationship with any corporation, you should always be in it for you and your best interests. Then again, I'm very frugal overall and routinely balk at the cost of new tech. I think I've mentioned it before elsewhere I love watching people snap up brand new tech knowing it will be in the used market sooner than later.

As always, vote with your purchasing power.

 

Just to be clear, I never thought you did. My agreement with the statements by Brother @ajc9988 were (hopefully) not taken to mean that I thought you did.

I tend to be frugal as well. Probably not as much as I should be relating to performance PC tech if I were more sensical, but the price of the desirable parts has become nonsensical and absurd to the point that I would almost have to be insane to view it as acceptable or representative of something being a good value. Nothing is worth the prices that are being charged for it, and that applies across to board to every brand and model of products that are desirable. The only stuff that isn't priced for idiots that like to waste money is the garbage I have no interest in buying.

 

@Johnksss or @Mr. Fox

What is a safe uncore voltage for a 7980XE? Or what may be considered to high?

I am all setup and running on the new EVGA X299 Dark motherboard, and with my CPU at 4.6Ghz and memory at XMP 3733 CL17, and mesh at x32

^ I see my uncore voltage is set to Auto and running at 1.343V. I will not let me run a manual voltage, or a negative offset, only a positive offset to add more voltage.

The uncore voltage directly correlates with the CPU’s IMC and how fast your DDR4 is running correct? So if I ran my DDR4 at 2133Mhz it would run a lower Uncore voltage, and if I ran my DDR4 at say 4,000Mhz it would automatically run a much higher uncore voltage to compensate for the faster memory frequency?


So since I cannot lower the uncore voltage, is 1.343V safe?

 

Change it from Auto to Manual (called "Override" in the BIOS). You can do that. The option is there. I ran it at 32x using 1.300V manual voltage as my 24/7 daily driver setting. You can also choose Adaptive and set the target voltage for the same value you would use for Manual.

Yes, 1.343V is safe. I used 1.400V for benching with cache at 34x.

Not to the best of my knowledge. Maybe if you leave everything on auto settings.

For the best stability use at least 1.450V for the RAM running at 4000 CL18 or at least 1.500V for 4000 CL16. My 7960X settings worked the same for the 7980XE for the most part. Hardly any difference.

Edit: watch these videos from my YouTube channel. The first is a "normal" BIOS and the second video is with the XOC BIOS.



If your Viper RAM is B-die like mine, the Corsair LPX memory overclocked identically to the Viper sticks. All of the memory overclocks were the same regardless of which sticks I had installed. I only bought the Viper sticks because they were black and I was sick of looking at red after a couple of years. (I actually never wanted red in the beginning, but black were never available in 4000 MHz at the time. Red was the only option.)

 

I bought a tube of TFX for testing. I've got nothing to compare against as far as ordinary thermal paste is concerned because I generally only use liquid metal, but I can tell you my CPU load temps are 15°C hotter and I get thermal throttling at 97°C on my TongFang turdbook compared to about 82°C handling the same workload and same BIOS settings with liquid metal. So, there is no legitimate reason for me to continue using the TFX rather than immediately going back to using liquid metal. GPU load temps are at least 10°C hotter with TFX than liquid metal as well. It's not an acceptable alternative to liquid metal for me. Using an ordinary thermal paste simply requires too much compromise and liquid metal is far and away vastly superior.

Now, that being said, I absolutely LOVE how thick it is. That part is excellent. If you have a laptop with sloppy crap-fitting heat sinks and can't use liquid metal on account of the hideous quality control (or the obvious lack thereof) that went into the engineering of a pile of trash (common enough to be considered normal today) then TFX might be the best product to use, followed by Phobya NanoGrease Extreme. That has also historically been the best scenario for using IC Diamond. On poorly engineered garbage like that you need something as thick as TFX, NanoGrease Extreme or IC Diamond to plug the gaps, and products like Gelid and Kryosnaut will fail miserably with a sloppy fit because they are not thick and dense enough to work well. They might work OK for a short period of time, but they will fail after a matter of days if the fit is sloppy.

@Donald@zTecpc - thought you might want to know the outcome on this.

 

Excellent thanks! Some good news, I do not get “power shut downs” anymore with this x299 Dark motherboard. I even thought maybe my PSU could have been defective. With my last TUF board it would shut the entire system down running realbench, or ITB, CB Extreme.

 

I’m certain TFX cannot compete with LM. My CPU IHS and AIO cold plate are so uneven, I’d have to soak LM in real good on both and leave a good LM puddle most likely for effective results. Otherwise I’d have to lap them both.

 

That's great news! Yeah, the TUF and Strix products are for gamers, not overclockers. You were probably overloading the VRMs. If you get a chiller to keep the CPU cold enough to keep pushing the CPU overclocking higher that problem will surface again with the X299 Dark, but you'll see it when you start pulling between 1150 and 1200W from the CPU instead of 500W like the kiddie mobo.

 

Using @Mr. Fox excellent video demonstration will yield you some excellent results. So I say, follow that and you can't go wrong.

Also you can use Throttlestop to change and separate voltages as well. Once you find what works, then reboot to bios and set the new values there.

 

Nothing special here, but was able to bench at 5.7ghz.
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/23477615

 

Yeah I think the Praxis test bench AX basic is what I really want.

My case is so stuffed right now.

Wire management is great, but tubing management is not.

 

Btw, I forgot to show how bad one of the water cooling plates was on flatness BEFORE lapping. You can visually see that it isn't flat (while sitting on a surface plate). I'll update more later.

I couldn't find my Rouge and polishing compound, so have me the opportunity to upgrade to some Merard Luxor compound. I picked up some 1 micron, 0.5 micron, 0.3 micron, and 0.1 micron compounds (blue, yellow, white, and orange, respectively, using alumina oxide) along with some medicool chamois buffs for my dremel (they have like 9 layers, give or take, so one of the best prices for something like this).

So, I'm at 1 micron 3M polishing paper non- pressure sensitive adhesive at the moment (the numbers I write are passes, which are 4 figure 8s followed by a 45 degree turn done 30 times). I've got 8 passes per cold plate so far. Going to shoot for 20 then reassemble, then just buff them when the stuff comes in.

I'll post shots of the mirrors when done. Many extreme OCers recommend leaving it scratched for paste contact. I prefer to, after finishing the mirror, hand buffing a little with my thermal paste of choice to work it into nooks and crannies. But, if using a liquid metal, it is definitely recommended for easier spread.

Edit: the other plate was visual not flat, so no pictures. This was the flatter of the two before starting.

 

Your cooling setup is so awesome! What is it like running a 1/2 HP chiller? Does it just sound like a small A/C window unit? Or is it louder than that?

Also, unfortunately my DDR4 is mixed B die and Hynix. Even though the ram sticks are all identical part numbers, Patriot swapped the memory from Samsung to Hynix later in production.