*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

I think you keep getting me mixed up with everyone else. Why that is i'm not really sure. Maybe our avatars all look alike or something.

I have not once told anyone to go spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on anything. I do not sit and argue with customers over performance. I do not have that kind of time to argue people's public opinion. I think you are mistaking my hobby of over clocking and assuming that I force that opinion on others looking to purchase systems? If so you are barking up the wrong tree yet again. You guys are the ones in here arguing about cooling this and that all day, not me. I don't really care to be honest about it. I hear it so much that I do not pay attention it about 95% of the time. It was cool to hear the first few times in a thread, but not every day 50 times a day over 6 months. (That's just me) If someone wants a BGA laptop I do not call them names or try to upsale. That is what I sale them unless asked of "other" options in their price range. That goes for anything.

As to numbers and percentages? That's all you. I do not do that. I do not sit here and debate heatsinks all day. If I did that, I would never get anything done.
As to bragging, them days stopped after the Gateway FX 6820 and we all know how long ago that was.


Side note:
@hmscott
After looking over your last post.
In that scenario. I'm not going to be doing no water cooling anything. All factory spec'd Servers and Company built laptops, (Business Class) unless otherwise asked about something different.

And right now...That is the least of their problems! Ransomware is #1

 

That is exactly what you should do. Any time someone tries to tell me I want something different than what I have asked for and just don't know what I really want, I am done talking to them and I go spend my money somewhere else. If I were seeking their counsel they would know it because I would come right out and ask for it. If they give me their unsolicited two cents and try to change my mind instead of listening to me, then I write them off as an arrogant prick and find someone else that wants my money.

That is different than the customer that says, "I need help making a decision. What do you recommend?" And, then is when sharing an opinion and trying to influence them is OK.

Where things get all jacked up is when a noob looking for advice comes to a place like this and asks for help and leaves confused because the range of opinions is too broad for all of the talking heads to be right. The silly bickering goes on for days after they have left and gone looking somewhere else for help. They can't know who is full of crap because they don't know. Had they known the answer they never would have asked for advice in the first place.

 

Spoiler: H-20

 

Does anyone else have issues submitting PCMark7 results on HWBot.org?
I have two scores that I want up there:
https://www.3dmark.com/pcm7/1130485
https://www.3dmark.com/pcm7/1084435

 

What happens? Do you get some kind of error trying to submit?

Maybe I will run it and see if it gives me the same experience.

 

I get a URL error on submitting it for the URL verification. Don't get it on ANY other Futuremark benchmark.

 

Spoiler: PCMark10 Express

Spoiler: PCMark10

Spoiler: PCMark10 Extended

Spoiler: PCMark7

View attachment 151800

Spoiler: Catzilla 1440p

 

I just tried it and got the same thing.

https://www.3dmark.com/pcm7/1130624

 

At least it isn't just me. I saw one person submit one with the 1950x, but his also was like 1000 points less than mine on the 1950X (and my quad core even stomped that one). Meanwhile, my Skylake got 8772. So I'm wondering if they just locked it for the top scores on that bench or what....

 

Ah, looking for that free gold cup are you?

You should be able to get away with a screenshot showing the proper information.

 

Maybe not the proper place put it... But
Intel Halts Certain UEFI BIOS Class Level 2 Compatibility Modes In 2020

"According to Brian the compatibility mode is still here as people want to bypass say the secure boot method, or have multi-OS boot settings. An advantage to discontinue the CSM support is that it will make room in the firmware for other stuff, initially, the BIOS would get significantly smaller in file-size. Also security-wise,"

"Starting 2020 Uefo Class 3 will be the new standard at Intel, with secure boot enabled."

 

The problem is my scores are Hall of Fame scores, so it requires one, even if I don't ask for points (tried it). The exact message is "Validation error: A valid futuremark compare url is required if want to reach the PCMark 7 Hall Of fame. As only 6 benchmark scores are better than you, you need to provide additional verification."

But, yeah, trying to get free cups! LOL.... Also adds to my Hardware points for the Hardware Masters ranking. About the only reason to do some of the older benches.

 

I have been saying this since 2011. Micro$loth Nazis are the arm twisters on this UEFI security filth. I hope the bastards at Micro$haft go out of business before 2020 and leave us alone with this retarded security bull hockey. The greatest threat to security is the imbeciles in Redmond. They do not want us to have the option of using any OS on any hardware that they don't make money from. They can kiss my butt, right on the orifice, while I am still taking a dump.

 

So forcing on people things that are just asinine. That SUCKS!!!!

 

Speaking of trash... here's my best Windoze OS X trash OS score. 21 Cinebench points less than W7, and that is with all non-Micro$haft services disabled in the bloated new OS.

 

Give it time. As I mentioned, because it is cheaper to produce, kids toys teaching programming are primarily focused on open source OSes. That means, as they grow up, we will start seeing a shift to Linux (Linus's revenge)!

 

They still deserve to go out of business for being stupid losers. Those of us that want to use Windows 7 can use activation hacks after the Redmond Mafia is stacked to the ceiling in moth balls. I'm serious. The company deserves to die for their crimes against us all. I have no respect or mercy for these criminals.

 

Well, that is what you get when you monetize information and enter late-stage capitalism. This is all about information (including allowing access to intelligence agencies). This isn't to say capitalism is bad, whole-hog, but rather to say we need consumer protections from the abuses that are being thrust upon us. The alternative is to not buy the product. But that gives little solace when the ecosystem of software is primarily designed for only Windows or OS X. So, the rebuttal to the abuses of capitalism will come, but not before we enter a much darker time.

 

After they go out of business the executives forced into an early retirement can use their free time to to pick up where they left off in their inappropriate physical relationships with their abusive mommies as emotionally disturbed teenagers.

 

Nonetheless, we will continue to feel the brunt of the assault until the Linux user-base grows, which develops the ecosystem, and until M$ switches over to a service-based model of purchasing time-sensitive licenses for the OS. If you look at the 2020 timeline, we are talking about the cutoff of support for Win 7 and 8 (I think 8 extended goes to 2022, but you get the point being made). If you can limit compatibility through firmware for the older OSes, you can then force adoption, to which other players in the industry are complacent. At this point, you can start further predatory acts. But, as prices go up, but wages remain stagnant or falling (looking solely at the true COLA, not inflation of the entire economy, you can see that more income is going toward the basics, specifically rents, utilities, insurance, student loans, food, etc., all of which are multiples of what they once were, not growing at the lower inflation rate of the general economy, which gets to purchasing power of consumers (the true cause for the contraction of purchases in the computer and electronics industries)), it will cause more to transition away from crappy, over-priced ******** like Windows (typed from a Windows based computer).

 

Ok. I just tested it and I see what you mean. I was only able to submit up into the 8500 range then it starts asking for the url that was already imputed on a lower score then edited up to the right score.

 

Please post here: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=500292#post500292

The error it is throwing needs to be fixed. I am providing everything required and the submission form does not recognize the 3DMark URL.

 

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=173062

 

It does not work. I tried without it and the error is the same.

 

That was just to say there is already a thread about it.

Side note. Url works, just not when you push your score into the top 15 or so.

 

Thank you. I asked to have my new thread merged with the old one.

 

Several times I wanted to jump aboard the Desktop wagon ^^.

But When I saw pascal cards. I begun to realize that within few years we'll have notebook GPU on par with desktop GPU . I just hope next year the laptops will be better compared to 2016/2017 where Skylake CPU overheated a lot.

 

It's true that laptop GTX 1070 / GTX 1080 are not that far away from their desktop counterparts, but there's still the GTX 1080ti in the desktop arena that is not duplicated as a laptop card - plus desktop cards will always be that bit faster due to better cooling systems which enable more voltage & Hz to be pushed through the card, so they'll never be complete equality.

 

5.3GHz Validation: https://valid.x86.fr/fq4umn | http://hwbot.org/user/mr._fox/

 

Managed to overclock my RAM a little more by tightening the timings from CL15 down to CL14 - still on 3200Mhz, but managed to achieve CL14 by increasing voltage to 1.4V and allowing for all timings to be set on Auto by motherboard except for the timings I specified: 14-15-15 (all others set to Auto). Setting to Auto relaxed some of the other less important timings, but I believe it also helped me tighten CAS latency. Performance is equal or better to my previous 15-15-15-32-240-1T, I'm now on 14-15-15-36-416-1T. Tested performance using Cinebench15, 3DMark, Dirt Rally benchmark - benefits are perhaps one extra frame of performance (average of 3 runs) on Dirt Rally benchmark, 3DMark & Cinebench are the same performance but Cinebench is more consistently producing the highest score I've seen (less fluctuation in result). I'll leave it at CL14 for now...ha, at least it's one number better than CL15!

Stability tested with Memtest86+, and a 400% pass on HCI Memtest. HCI Memtest is more stringent than Memtest86+, but the benefit of the latter is that it is run in a non-Windows boot environment, so that safe stability can be tested before exposing the operating system to potential RAM errors & the OS corruption that can bring.

For a quick & dirty estimate of comparing RAM performance when it comes to speed vs latency: RAM frequency divided by Cas Latency. So, in my case with CL14 RAM at 3200Mhz: 3200/14 = 229. Compared against 4200Mhz CL19 RAM: 4200/19 = 221. So using this metric my overclocked 3200Mhz at CL14 is performing slightly faster than 4200Mhz CL19 RAM. For some reason my RAM will tighten timings more efficiently than increasing the clock frequency. I've also read that gaming likes tighter timings rather than increased frequency, whereas stuff like video editing likes higher frequency (all other things considered equal).

 

3DMark Time Spy Extreme: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/2760381 | http://hwbot.org/submission/3712709_

3DMark Time Spy: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/2760357 | http://hwbot.org/submission/3712705_

3DMark Fire Strike Ultra: https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14181228 | http://hwbot.org/submission/3712697_

3DMark Fire Strike Extreme: https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14181164 | http://hwbot.org/submission/3712698_

3DMark Fire Strike: https://www.3dmark.com/fs/14181112 | http://hwbot.org/submission/3712688_

 

So, I made a few more changes today.

I have the Vardar Furious fans on the Thermaltake Floe Riing 360mm radiator now. I moved the GPU radiator to the front panel and changed it to push/pull. I added 3 exhaust fans. I flipped the fans over on the radiators so they are breathing fresh cooler air from outside of the case (top and front panels for intake) and the exhaust fans are on the bottom and rear panels. The Thermaltake RGB Riing fans are now on the front panel.

I installed the Phanteks RGB light rings to the Vardar and GPU fans.

I am thinking about cutting a "capsule-shaped" opening in the front panel to eliminate the obstruction of air with the front fans. The front panel's side and bottom vents for air intake are not good enough and I can tell the difference in how much less air the front fans are pulling in as soon as the front panel is put on.

 

Does it make much differences to the temperatures with new configuration? The 2 bottom fans as exhaust fans, I'm unsure how effective they would be in their position (I don't know if you've tested with & without bottom fans as exhaust) - I can imagine the cool air that is being drawn into the case by the two front intake fans would just make a beeline to those bottom exhaust fans, thereby negating their effect, and just exhausting the cool air that's just come into the case, and thereby just adding noise rather than cooling performance. Rear Exhaust fan looks sensible to me, not sure about the bottom fans as exhausts, but you're running out of space in your case to configure for exhaust when you have CPU & GPU radiators as intakes.

 

I am really interested in your results of the bottom fans as exhaust. I haven't used the bottom as exhaust in years but that doesn't mean I am right or wrong.

 

Replying to my own post because I have additional ideas. @Mr. Fox , I think it could be a good idea to put your GPU fan intake radiator at the bottom where currently the 2 exhaust fans are. Then use the front panel for pure air intake with dedicated fans - x2 or x3 fans there in the front panel for intake. Leave the GPU radiator in top panel as intake, and leave rear panel exhaust panel exhaust fan as it is currently. I can imagine this being a lot better airflow through the case as a whole, and I don't think your bottom panel mounted GPU radiator intake fan will be starved for air, certainly not if you elevate the case if the feet aren't deep enough. To me I reckon this could be really nice air flow through the case.

EDIT: thinking about it, this only leaves the rear panel exhaust fan as the only exhaust fan. Maybe this will be enough if you cut out the grills to increase exhaust efficiency, and from memory your case is quite ventilated in terms of a lot of mesh holes everywhere, so a positive air pressure environment could work quite well if there's plenty of holes/passive ventilation in the case to let it all escape. In this new configuration I talked about I'd probaby only have one or max 2 intake fans in the front panel, you just wouldn't need more if you have only one exhaust fan.

 

Seems to be working great. The 3 Vardar Furious fans are pushing air violently toward the bottom. Since I am using the top and front as intakes, there is no opportunity for the hot air to rise. I can feel air coming out the bottom as well. If I lay my hand in the bottom of the case where I added the fans I can feel the air from the Vardar fans blowing air on my hand 20 inches away, LOL.

Those benchmarks I posted maxed out about 3C cooler than before. How much of that is the top intake and Vardar fans and push/pull on the GPU radiator versus bottom exhaust is anyone's guess, but the current setup is working well. I am thinking I can gain another 3 to 5C by cutting open the front panel to allow unrestricted air flow to the front fans. It is noticably louder with the front panel off and nothing to muffle the 4 fans up front, but I don't care about that.

It is insane how much air the Vardar fans are sucking through the radiator in the top panel. I am almost positive the air inside of the case is no warmer than the air outside the case. Maybe I can get a cheap thermometer to put in the case for testing.

 

I don't know what you think about my ideas in my previous post as a slight amendment to your current configuration, but thinking about your entire setup I have to admit I do prefer the general idea of having the radiators of CPU & GPU as exhausts - to expel all that heat right out of the case before it even has a chance to get in there - perhaps then you just have to make sure you have enough intake routed in the correct manner. I'm not talking from experience with radiators, because I've never built with them, but imagining how the heat would flow I think this would be quite a good setup - certainly keep air case temperatures lower (& motherboard temps).

Part of my goal when I built my desktop was for it to be silent & yet cool & high clocked - I managed to achieve that with some incremental tweaking on all manner of elements contained, but a large part of that was 'scientific reproducible testing' of different case fan configurations & case fan RPMs. I enjoyed it, but it is time consuming, end result is fantastic though. I just think if you bother to go desktop - one of the perks is you can have the best of both worlds: silence AND performance.

 

EVGA says the GPU radiator should remain level with or above the GPU with the ports on the bottom, not below the GPU or with the ports on top.

 

I think pulling colder air from the outside through the radiators is the better approach versus pulling air out of the case. Increasing air pressure inside the case is good as well. You do not want a vacuum in the case. I have 7 intake fans and 3 exhaust fans. The exhaust fans are slow and weak compared to the 7 powerful intake fans.

That is my theory and it seems to be consistent with the results. I can feel a good volume of cool air coming out of the exhaust fans and nothing feels warm in terms of the air flow, even under severe load.

 

I'm with you now! So you couldn't do what I suggested. How about switching the CPU radiator to front intake. Switching the GPU to top panel front intake. Thereby leaving room for 2 exhaust fans: one on rear panel as you currently have & then another exhaust fan on top panel rear (sitting next to your GPU radiator intake). Might be quite nice airflow. I have 2 exhaust fans sitting in the rear corner there, like I described, and it works well.

(This would also allow you to keep your theory of all radiators as intake).

EDIT: damn, in this config I suggested the warm air exhausted by top panel exhaust fan will be drawn in by GPU radiator intake - that won't work! Not unless you could leave a lot of space between them and put some crazy divider sticking out the top of your case between them! Ha, don't think this could be the best solution, but ideas ideas! EDIT #2: ha, you could put a crazy funnel intake on your GPU radiator intake, that would solve it, but would be a cancerous like growth on the top of your case!

 

I tested that first and the CPU temps were about 3 to 5C higher in wPrime 1024M. Flipping over the radiator fans to intake outside air rather than exhaust seems to make the greatest improvement. GPU is about 3C cooler in Heaven using the fan to pull in outside air versus exhaust. GPU temps are the same in top and front mounting. Only the CPU got warmer with the radiator in front. Probably due to restricted air flow. Top panel is totally porous with no air flow impediments. The air flow from the Vardar fans is also noticably greater with the radiator on top.

 

When I first ever thought about water cooling & radiators, my instinct was to find a way to have the radiators completely isolated from the case, in their own enclosure - so they're bringing in cool air from the room & then just exhausting it back out int the room - then have the tubing routed into the case. I could imagine fabricating some kind of a stand to fix on the top outside of the case to fix the radiator to. Although I don't know at which point you say - well what's the point of having a case in the first place if you're gonna bother doing that!

 

I am going to get rid of the case and go to open bench anyway. I think it looks better and is more convenient having no case. Cases are an impediment more than anything else.

 

Yeah, I think it will fit your specific purposes a lot better - no need to tinker with air flow, and you get maximum cooling performance for the CPU & GPU radiators, but I guess you might need to install some fans pointing at parts of motherboard to keep some areas cool (I imagine). You get a bit more noise perhaps, and more dust, but you have quick access to the hardware too when it comes to cleaning & tinkering. I can definitely see this fitting your needs better. I enjoyed the challenge of perfecting airflow for my case, and my only regret is hacking a little roughly at the exhaust fan grills when I cut them out, so doesn't look very professional, but gets the job done - I prefer the noise dampening of a case & cooling is good if you can optimise everything through correct part buying choice & tinkering.

 

Yeah, sometimes it is hard to get a professional look with common hand tools. You almost need a CNC, laser cutter, or other high precision professional tools for some things for it to look perfect.

I think if I make a cut-out where I have the yellow box drawn on the photo it will be as absolutely perfect as a case can be. Same as running with the front panel removed. The only reason I have not done it yet is I haven't figured out how to make the cut look immaculate. I removed the plexiglass from the frame and that actually looks fairly decent except for some holes and recessed areas in the underlying panel that would need to be smooth to look best. I could fill them all with auto body putty (Bondo), sand it smooth and repaint the front cover, but that would be more work than cutting the opening in the plexiglass.

I might decide to not care about it. It takes like 0.5 second to remove the front cover. I can unsnap it for benching. It doesn't need to run any cooler than it does for playing games and other things.

 

23,180
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13793030

Posting the before score of my 6950X/1080 TI build with an AIO(!!!) and I will be posting the after score with a custom water loop.

 

I am looking at switching to a custom loop or a 360mm CLC possibly in the future.
There is really no downside from doing it and it will definitely be a cooler and quieter build which is what I need.

I want 24/7/365 stability from my machine and definitely running it cooler wont hurt. On that note, I need to get rid of my 5960x soon.....

 

Yes, I used aviation snips to cut out the exhaust grills, I bought the straight cut variety but should have bought the ones that cut in a curve, I suppose I could tidy up the sharp edges of the cut grills by applying a black or coloured 'u-shaped' rubber seal all around the sharp edges, something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/3224084625...=9044864&device=c&campaignid=856938665&crdt=0
But to be honest, I'm not sure I can be bothered to do it, it doesn't look absolutely horrendous as it is currently, and I generally prefer function over form. Ha, I may do it if I'm really really bored sometime!

Yes, on your case, that would be a good place to cut. GamersNexus did a similar mod on their H500P case, because they found the front panel was way too restrictive: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3085-project-haf-ify-mesh-cooler-master-h500p-case-mod
I didn't look at their whole process, but they basically replaced a large part of the front panel with breathable mesh.

 

Just adding this.....

The main reason why we do not use cases for "benching" is because you are generally benching many different parts and setups. That means everything is constantly changing. And it gets very inconvenient if everything is looking all nice in a case. (The more cards you add the more heat involved as well.) You can run different forms of cooling at the drop of a dime or run (stock indefinitely) stock for just testing new & old products before really getting serious later. Binning GPU's, CPU's & Motherboards is far easier this way as well.

This will all make sense when you start benching in this form or fashion. If not, then disregard.

Side note:
PCmark7 is working now.