*Official* NBR Desktop Overclocker's Lounge [laptop owners welcome, too]

@Robbo99999
I'll have to retract part of my answer up above...
Because if you say...overloading the fan header by pushing to much voltage though it, can also cause it to fail over time.
I have a Rampage V Extreme sitting in my closet with two bad fan headers and that thing started causing me intermittent problems. So I shelved it and bought something else. the X299.

 

(Yep, you mentioned fan headers in one of your previous posts)

 

You can supply over-voltage to fan headers?

 

You can "pull" to much voltage by running higher amp rated fans. I know this because of the fans I was running at the time.
Also blew out a 12V 2A wall adapter I had powering my fans

 

Wow! I didn't know. BTW, which fans were you using 360mm or 480mm?

 

I was running 3 of these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X2M2GG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

• Input Voltage: 12VDC rated, 6 - 12.8VDC operating, Current: 2.45A (Max. 3.24A), 29.4W (Max. 38.88W)

Needless to say, just running one of these is not really a feasible idea.

 

Like the server fans I've used on my laptop cooler, lol.

 

Guess what?
That is exactly where those 3 fans went.

 

The highest power fans in my setup are 0.28 A / 3.3W. Each fan trio was on a separate header, so each trio is under 10W per header. What is not clear is if the water pump, CPU and CPU_OPT 4-pin headers that are next to one another are each using a discrete circuit or a shared circuit. If it is shared, that would be pretty stupid. And, you would think there would be a fuse or circuit breaker of some sort to prevent an overload situation.

 

Thats some insane specs. People are allowed to sell enterprise grade stuff to consumers just like that! Wasn't there any restriction of some sort?

 

What?

 

OEM coolers with high CFM and no warranty if sold to consumers. All blame is on us(as a consumer).

 

You're talking about chopping fingers off with high RPM fan blades? (I suppose knives are dangerous, but you can still buy them for your kitchen).

 

That's good. Here few years those heavy duty things weren't sold in single numbers and whenever I asked them people glanced in a strange way and say we don't sell them(But I can see it on shelf!)

 

That is interesting. I know some headers are spec'ed at 1A. I'd go through the manual and see if they put in which ones are 1A and which ones may allow for more (some MB mfrs started doing ones meant for higher amps because of rgb, etc.)

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I just searched the entire PDF and the screen shot I posted is the only mention of fan header power or current limits. Since my setup was less than the maximum capacity, it clearly was not a situation of circuit overload. Has to be a defect of some sort.

So, the EVGA board fan headers have double the capacity of the ASUS board (24W vs 12W). I could actually attach 6 of my fans to a single header and not exceed the capacity. The X299 Dark manual indicates the following:

 

Yea, my fans didn't burn them out. My mistake came when I re plugged in one of the fans while the system was running and it zapped the header. Which in turn took out the header next to it. The IC is not burnt, but yet the header has no power. This is of course was on a Rampage V Extreme. Now something small like that messed up the board while this thing ran like a work horse for quite a few years. Including water on the board. Water in the cpu socket. Ice in the memory sockets. -30C on a regular basis. LN2 for 6 months straight. Frost on components causing shut downs. And it still ran. But user error on my part messed the board up. So in my case I chalked it up and bought another one, but then it was also out of warranty. The EVGA board I had where I bent the pin, I had to pay. 35.00 Bucks was the cost, plus shipping. Advanced RMA. Gotta love that though. Not a lot of places have that. I have had quite a few miss haps over the years. Some covered some not, but benching is not a cheap hobby where all parts are covered unfortunately...

 

I am thinking the Nuvoton fan controller chips used on the ASUS boards must have a latent defect. They were sometimes a little quirky on the Maximus X Hero as well.

As we discussed on the phone yesterday, a week or so back the CHASSIS_FAN1 header stopped working. And, that just suddenly stopped working while it was in use. It actually started and stopped a few times, then finally it would not work at all. So, I had to connect my little 80mm VRM heat sink fan to the FS_FAN1 header next to it. Fortunately, that little fan is really quiet, so having it running full speed is fine.

I am going to use a Kingwin 4-channel controller when I install the EVGA board, so I won't be using any headers except two for the two water pumps. I've never really liked using PWM or controlling the fans with the BIOS or Windows (AISuite) software. The Windows software uses memory and CPU resources unless you manually kill all the processes and services, or block them using Autoruns. I'd much rather just turn the knobs where I want them and not have any connection to the mobo. Having a totally mechanical solution is always my personal idea of a best solution. And, if the discrete external fan controller dies, no biggie... just toss it into the garbage and grab another one.

 

That's why I used the fan controller. It's 60W per channel.

 

Which one are you using? I had a hard time finding something that looked good, so I settled on the Kingwin (same model I use on my U3 mod) only for lack of an option that looked better.

 

https://thepcenthusiast.com/lamptron-cf525-fan-controller-review/


https://www.amazon.com/Lamptron-Power-Controller-CF525-Black/dp/B00K0VKEUK

Or this one since your fans are not very strong
https://www.amazon.com/FC5-Channel-...qid=1542924648&sr=8-1&keywords=Lamptron+FC5V3

 

@Mr. Fox I recommend the Lamptron CF525. It is the same controller I use with my server fan/laptop cooler setup. Unfortunately, I killed one of the channels when I hooked up two of those said fans to a single channel. It is overkill for the majority of users though.

 

when ONE of your FANS needs moar powah than an entire ultrajokebook *rofl*

 

If anyone is interested, the Watercool MO-RA3 radiator is on sale on Performance PCs. I've picked up the 420 version for my 7980XE but the 360 version cools almost as well. I suggest a good D5 pump to go with it and if you have the cash, two D5's. Stay away from EK's DDC pumps, I had three die on me in about two years (to be fair, EK had covered them under warranty).

 

I'm coming for you, Prema. https://valid.x86.fr/e7sarp

Hopefully the new mobo helps out more.

 

lol so ure gunning for Prema on a desktop while he did his 5.55 ghz validation with a laptop. right.

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, I saw his sys spec on the validation page. It's a poke, all in good fun.

 

If I didn't have the water chiller, that would be the next best option. It's good enough that GamersNexus is no longer disappointed with their 9980XE overclocking.

 

awesome, i love it! its got fox written all over it! combine THAT rad with water chiller and uve got urself a winner although ud probably lose all that chilling via so much surface area to the ambient air....

 

Yes, that would happen. But, with the chiller turned off it would be better than my current dual 360 radiator setup. And, the way things are set up with quick disconnect fittings I can easily bypass the radiators and run straight off the chiller.

I had previously posted some information on the gigantic Phobya radiators at Performance-PCS. These monster radiators would be kind of cool (pun intended) mounted in a window sill to pull in fresh outside air, especially in the winter. You could likely get that water as cold as a chiller when the weather outside is at or below freezing point.

 

Exactly what I'm going to do with that MO-RA3 radiator. I'm going to stick nine Noctua NF-A14 fans on it and open my garage. It averages 11C down here, so I'm going to see how far I can push that 7980XE. The single 360 radiator isn't cutting it above 4.7Ghz.

Edit: I know I can get better thermals if I delid it, but I don't have the delid tool and I don't want to spend over 100 for the tool for a single processor.

 

pshhhh, dont give @Papusan any ideas in his igloo....

 

Ha, but the delidding tool is a fraction of the cost of the nine Noctua fans, radiator, and 'inconvenience' of running it in a cold garage! You probably achieve the same results with less fans and less radiator & no garage if you delid? Or if you delid & still do your garage/radiator/9 fan thing then think how cold that would be for the CPU!

 

Time Spy Extreme: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/5170621
Non-delidded 7980XE with a 360 rad. CPU score still in the top 100 Hall of Fame. More cooling weaponry incoming.

 

Cool, but I noticed that your system is not ranked highly in the bar chart against 'similar systems', why is that, is that due to the GPUs not being overclocked very far?

 

i guess that depends on highly overclocked those "similar systems" are. anyone with a 7980xe and 2080 TIs or similar will be overclocking to the absolute max 99% of the time thus setting average scores to a pretty high level haha.

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, even with dual 360mm radiators, there is not enough cooling for these i9 monster chips.

The tool does not cost $100. You can get the tool by itself for less, but the kit with a custom copper IHS is only $55. https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-upgrade-kit-for-lga-2066 Without the copper IHS it is only $40 https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/rockit-99-delid-and-relid-kit-for-skylakex-kabylakex

He is fortunate to live in a place that is cold. His igloo would quickly become a puddle of hot water in Phoenix. I really miss living in a place with cooler weather all year and a winter that actually gets cold.

 

My understanding is that "similar systems" in the bar chart are going to be the same CPU/GPU combo (?), so he'd be competing against users with same CPU and sli GTX 1080ti (not 2080ti). Given that he said his CPU result was in the Top 100 hall of fame I figured he would come in at the higher end of the "similar systems" bar chart (rather than the bottom end of 'normal'), which is why I asked if that was because his GPU's weren't overclocked that far?

 

Hey Bro, did you get the Dark installed yet?

 

This is hilarious... start watching at 3:20 for the cool demo with the Delta fans...

 

I did. It's a pretty decent board, but not as good as the Rampage VI Apex. I hope ASUS takes care of me and replaces it like they should.

I think from a hardware perspective, the X299 Dark is actually a better product. It's truly built like a tank. The firmware absolutely pales in comparison to the ASUS BIOS. ASUS has a LOT more BIOS options for fine tuning the crap out of everything, especially with respect to the memory. The UI is a little bit nicer, but I still prefer the ASUS BIOS. But, I am more used to the ASUS BIOS.

I've had it installed less than 24 hours, so the jury is still out on whether it overclocks as well as the Rampage VI Apex.

I did get Windows 7 installed. I used the same USB stick that was modded with the ASUS EZ Install tool. It would not work in Legacy/MBR mode. Windows Setup would fail after the first reboot, after getting to the desktop and it gets to the part of detecting devices and looking for drivers. After about 15 minutes of waiting it would give me an error message to the effect that Windows 7 cannot be installed on this system. And, my Macrium Reflect images would not work with this motherboard. Restoring Macrium Reflect images would end in exactly the same manner. This was with Legacy/CSM and the drives partitioned in MBR mode. So, I changed the BIOS to UEFI with CSM and changed the storage mode from Legacy to UEFI. Then it immediately installed Windows 7 in UEFI/GPT mode without a hitch. So, in that regard ASUS wins again. My preference is everything in Legacy mode, and disks partitioned in MBR mode. But, I am dual-booting W7/W10 as usual.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/13028563

 

Just got a call from a super-nice person in the engineering department. He was apologetic (unlike the other dullards I spoke with) and said he was glad there was no other property damage or injury. He was very interested in the defect. He asked a lot of questions and is sending me an RMA form and prepaid shipping label so they can do a forensic inspection and will let me know in about a week after receiving it if they are covering it under warranty.

 

What is funny is when I showed my dad the PCB damage, he instantly said it looked like what used to happen if you plugged too much RGB or lights into the fan headers on boards (referring to the tube lamps for UV, etc. from the early 2000s). That was before Johnksss posted the info on those being chips supporting the fan headers. LOL. Not too long ago, there were a couple boards having issues with the header chips going (guess a bad lot or something).

But, as to firmware, Asus bios isn't worth it, especially seeing their crap offerings for Z390. Doesn't matter if you get extra options if you don't use most of them, or if the hardware on the board isn't up to the task. Must admit, going from an M8E to an Asrock X399 Taichi took some getting used to, and there are some options I'd like back, but Asus didn't make it worth it (primarily they lost my purchase by bundling a $100 NIC I did not want or need, while charging $150 more than the board I got). For X299, the VRM delivery doesn't even compare, the Asus board IS WORSE than the X299 Dark and X299 FTW. So, as long as the BIOS is serviceable, who cares about having more options. As buildzoid pointed out, you can deal with a BIOS, and that can be improved, but if the hardware isn't there on the board, it can never magically get better. Asus is charging premiums now for fake 8-phase boards when Gigabyte offers Z390 boards with 12-phases for $180, while $240 gets the master board which offers so many more features, rather than Asus charging what for their boards?

Not only that, when I was using the M8E, some of their firmware was broken, so didn't matter if options were there if things didn't work right. That was a huge turn-off I had to Asus.

 

Yes, that is how it looks. But, the headers that burned had water pumps and a little 80mm VRM fan connected and where nowhere near the capacity. Those parts are working fine on the new board.

Well, other than whatever happened with the fan controller catching on fire, the Rampage VI Apex is about as good as it gets for hardware and firmware. I get what you're saying about some of those other boards, but at the end of the day I want something that overclocks better than anything else. The shenanigans you are talking about, as foolish as they are, have nothing to do with my situation. It remains to be seen if the X299 Dark can keep up with the Rampage VI Apex in terms of CPU and RAM overclocking. If it can, that is awesome because it's really built like a tank. If it can't, then being built like a tank is ultimately nothing more than a nice feature and it doesn't really do squat for me in terms of overclocked benching. I am not loyal to any brand or company except to the extent that it gives me what I want, when I want it. It is purely a producer/consumer relationship here and there is nothing romantic or captivating about a brand to me. Results are the only thing that matters on a case-by-case basis, and I'll not bat an eye about kicking ASUS to the curb if there is another option that executes better on meeting my expectations.

I haven't declared a winner yet because everything is different and it will require some additional time of tweaking before I can do that. I've got business travel this week and next week, so maybe mid-December I will be able to say definitively which one is the better product for my purposes. I know I am splitting hairs to some extent in terms of hardware and firmware and, ultimately, it will boil down to hair splitting on the numbers as well. Both boards are totally amazing products, but only one will be the winner once I am done pushing the CPU and RAM to the edge of their functional limits. The winner will be the one with the highest scores.

The Rampage has already set the bar, and now we just have to see if the Dark can clear it or jump higher. The beauty of that situation is I will ultimately get to decide which one to keep (assuming ASUS covers it under warranty as they should).

I am going to order one of those Lamptron CF525 fan controllers with the 60W per channel capacity that @Johnksss and @Rage Set both recommend. Can either of you gentlemen confirm that the spacing between the 3-pin connectors is far enough apart to plug in 4-pin PWM fans with no contact interference? All of my fans are 4-pin and I cannot tell in the images if they are spaced far enough apart for the wider connectors. This inexpensive Kingwin controller is struggling to push the fans even though, in the aggregate (3 fans per channel), they are rated for less than the output capacity of each channel of the controller. Plus, the knobs are a bit chintzy.

 

the 2080s i mentioned were just for the sake of argument my point being that even at similar/identical hardware specs, scores can differ a lot just by tuning / ocing.

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I'm leaving a lot of points on the table with my K|NGP|Ns, as they are currently air-cooled. I am still debating on keeping these cards or not. If I do and put them under water, they should beat the best of the best. Under LN2 is where they really thrive though. If you look the overall score, most are beating my graphic score and I'm winning in CPU. My quest is to get that CPU score into the 12k range and then I can push those GPU's even harder.

 

Thank you for that link.

 

My pleasure.

Can you answer my question on the spacing of the connectors? I went ahead and ordered it on the assumption it will be fine. I hope so.

 

Ample room for 4pin PWM connectors side by side. Just tested it out. Edit: I hope you have a lot of high powered fans, as this controller is overkill but I'm sure you're going to push those 60A channels.

 

That's 60W or 5Ax12V