Is there any thunderbolt eGPU solution available

I'm looking forward for a Gigabyte U2442. That would be awsomoe. 14" 1600x900 LED 24W cpu TDP. 640M 2GB optimus. m-sata, 9.5mm hdd, 2xusb3.0, 2xusb2.0, thunderbolt. 1.7kg.

 

Yep, I looked at that one too, but it looks quite bad.. Of course looks are quite a subjective aspect, so for someone who likes it it's a great machine. If it gets priced well I may still go for it though. Just release them already! ^^

 

I'm doing software engineering, so a unix based machine makes life easier. Also there is a decent chance I will be doing some iOS development in the near future, so I don't want to have to buy a new machine down the track just for that.

As for the price, here in Australia the only available laptop that seems to compare is the Asus UX31A, which costs more than the equivalent Macbook Air. I'm someone that is OS independent (have frequently used Mac, Windows and Ubuntu) and in this case the Macbook Air made sense for my use.

Anyways, I bought the macbook air a few days ago and it arrived today. Hopefully they can get the thunderbolt adapters released sooner rather than later, then I will be quite happy.

 

good choice, currently there are only 2 competitors to the MBA, the UX series (the second gen, not the first gen), and the samsung series 9 (also the second gen).

we are all here hoping that it will launch soon something for us to play with.

 

it will be so much cheaper that you can even get it costumed cosmetically to how you want it to be and still save tons of money.

 

Is there any info on it's pricing yet? The articles I saw didn't have any info aside from specs. Of course if the price difference is multiple 100$ then I'll definitely buy the Gigabyte; looks matter to me, but only to an extent.
[Sorry for offtopic talk ^^]

 

a macbook pro with a 650M has a base price of $2,199.

with $1,000 you can even get a custom made carbon fibre chassis and still save some money.

 

and Im weighting the value of the RMBP versus just getting the T430s. Sincerely I think I may forgo the decision to buy anything this year and just wait for the haswell update in year.

Im not that confident of the avaialbility of the gigabyte models. And IF I was torn between RMBP and the U2442, I would go for the former in a heart beat.

 

I'm ready to write a check as soon as we can grab a thunderbolt egpu. I would even pre-order it if possible.

Comparing the lenovo T430s with the Gigabyte U2442 the differences are that the T430s as an ODD bay and it's heavier (1.8kg vs 1.4kg) and it doesn't have a dedicated GPU (vs Gigabyte 640M/650M). and they have the same base price. $999. I would prefer the T430s if it wasn't for the 650M. Integrated 650M for the same price is a killer deal.

I/O ports T430s
2x usb3.0
1x usb2.0
SDXC slot
ethernet
thunderbolt
VGA
card reader
expresscard

Gigabyte U2442
2xusb3.0
2xusb2.0
thunderbolt
hdmi
card reader
ethernet

I wouldn't even compare the macbook pro, it has an insane base price of $2,199 it's much bigger and it weights 2kg. it has 15.4" 2,880×1,800 screen, a 650M, soldered ram, non-removable battery, no HDD space (uses "special" form factor), no ODD.
2xusb3.0
2xthunderbolt
1xhdmi

 

I just placed an order for the Retina Macbook Pro. That screen in concept looks amazing (I've been dying for an IPS screen on a laptop that didn't have crappy resolution or ironically too expensive). All the other qualities are pretty subpar though.

 

given that i rarely use more than 1 USB at a time (mouse and only in windows), and that i still rock only a 120gb SSD and only that, the RMBP is quite enough for me, even the base model. The hdmi out is a good addition though. I would probably order the base model + 16gb ram upgrade, just because, not based on current and future needs. another thing it packs a quad, one thing that neither of those models do.

I can understand the indignity of people regarding the soldered ram and the proprietary design of the RMBP, however its just the mba all over again, not to mention the Z2, since I already owned the former I dont see all the problem that lies with it. I do however think that apple could have expanded the warranty to 5 years, 3 years aint enough.

The t430s can have a nvs 5200 in it, its a rebadge of the 400m/500m series mid range gpus.

 

UK is supposed to get the u2442 end of this month, say the Gigabyte support team

 

And it is confirmed to have a TB port? I would love the new Vizio to have the TB; i would buy it istantly.

Vizio's new Notebook and Thin + Light unibody ultrabooks available today for $898 (hands-on) | The Verge

 

I asked them a few questions via email, including TB port but predictably, their reply just mentioned the UK release date, that is it.

 

imo there will be several versions like the T430. there are versions of the u2442 without thunderbolt.

I really don't understand why people buy macs.

 

I'm sure everyone has different reasons. I have a 2011 Air because it was the first Air that didn't suck - and there was not much competition out there in terms of extremely portable machines(it took a couple months for companies to start releasing Ultrabooks that were equal to the Air - at ironically similar prices).

I am ordering a retina Macbook Pro cause it is one of the cheaper laptops with an IPS screen with an acceptable resolution (a lot of 'affordable IPS laptops are limited to 1366 x 768 - which is on the low side). Though - I stopped following IPS laptops shortly after HP's Dream Color 2 panel clocking in well over 3k.

The downside to Apple is that they have horrible laptop warranties compared to Dell and HP.

 

+$1000 more just because of a screen? I don't get it.

 

how much is a dream color 2? oh yeah 1k

 

lol, it is simply a trade off people make. For some, they buy Apple products and pay the premium because they perceive Apple as something they're not (that anything Apple is 1000x better than what anyone else makes - reality of it is their QC is as bad as other manufacturers, and the warranty is one of the worse offered given the price.), and the owning an Apple product offers some sort of social superiority.

For others, they rationalize feature vs price vs value. Is size important? Is weight important? Gaming capabilities? Battery Life? There is a long laundry list of items, especially on my checklist - and NO laptop I've ever owned to date have met my expectations (except for my first laptop, which I didn't have expectations then...)

My MacBook Air - while light and super easy to transport; was super weak. For a time, I bought a M18x to replace my Air - Ridiculously powerful; Played all games on max and was having a blast - but the resolution felt lacking (1080p - the ideal resolution would have been 1200p on an 18" screen). It was heavy to the point of being a burden to transport. I ended up returning it and stuck with my Air.

With the release of the new MBP, it offers a bundle of features that are highly desirable (and a bunch that are not -- soldered RAM, new proprietary SSD interface; fairly lame GPU - but not too bad). I weighed the good, the bad, and the price for a while ~ and decided it was not too bad. Took the plunge.

 

Sorry for what is likely an annoying and noobish question, but is this shaping up to be an actual possibility in the near future (1-3 years)? Because, if so, this could be the push I need to send to the MBPR over the M17x.

Also, would we need anything besides the eGPU module, GPU, and PSU to make it work?

 

aside those the drivers.

 

and cables. and eventually overcome bios/os possible limitations.
thunderbolt cables do run HOT. very hot.

 

What about that

Sounds good to me... basically it has been made for data controller board but it's still a PCIe link so no matter what data are going through.

My only concern is about the PCIe slot itself it's a 4x slot only (I mean it's not an edge free one)

 

Dremel it open.

 

Optical Cables for Thunderbolt Ports Shipped by Sumitomo | PCWorld

Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd. | Press Release (2012) Sumitomo Electric Launches Optical Thunderbolt Cable Samples"

I haven't seen this covered in here... So the real fiber optics solution should work better essentially, right? (except the price tag...)

 

wow thanks! that is nice.

better cables can bring better speeds but only if the chips allow it. basically it brings nothing for now. it just longer (much longer) cables.

future doesn't seam bright. the TH05 only devers pci-e 2.0 x2 performance. far from the pci-e 2.0 x4 that the current chips and specifications allows.

let's hope that msi gus ii gets into the market with uncrippled performance.

 

that is actually irrelevant. The prices of the cables are only going to drop when more performance chips are installed in the cables, I have already posted a relevant article.

Concerning thunderbolt future, intel plans to put newer controllers next year, dunno if they are going to be based on copper and fiber as the speculation is claiming.

This should give us backward compatibility, but still more speed on the proper cable and controllers

 

it IS very relevant. copper cables can't handle higher speeds. that's why optic cables are needed.

 

Should be... Resistance of metals increase with increasing heat which may cause signal degradation and slower transmittance due to the increased resistance. Fiber optics doesn't have that problem.

So I have a question at this point. What is the real bottleneck? The controller? Or the converter in the cable?

 

good question. cables are rated 10gbps. maybe they can be compatible with next versions while having a lower speed. or maybe they can even be compatible at full speed.
But a bottleneck is the controller for sure. There are several thunderbolt chips not all of them with the same bandwith. the best ones have bidirectional 10gbps. but then all current cables work with all current chips.

why I say it does matter is because to make faster copper cables you need very high quality and very good connectors and short lenght. it is possible but it's expensive and more complicated to achieve. if you check my avatar you can see pci-e external cables. the bigger one has a bandwith of a pci-e 2.0 16x, 64Gbit/s, several times faster then thunderbolt. also the spec is at least from 2008.

but optic cables are so much better. you could in theory connect a thunderbolt egpu with an optical cable several kilometers away from the notebook without any degradation. 5meters in copper there's already problems with the signal.

also because they are active cables, using copper or optic fibre is very simple and cheap and it shouldn't be much difference in price.

so at this time the bottleneck is on the chip and imo in the cables too. it will be like usb2.0 and 3.0.


the thing with thunderbolt is that is the fastest usable interface for an egpu. they didn't make it with an egpu in mind. faster interfaces could be very easily and cheaply implemented if manufacturers wanted. just like mxm cards. but they don't that.

 

Magma - Thunderbolt to PCIe Expansion | ExpressBox 3T

Is this viable?

Edit - $949? Are you kidding me???

 

The edit is correct. This thing would cost less than $50 to make. Magma's video production team pulling out all the punches by highlighting the big black box it is delivered in comes in and the replaceable fan feature. These guys have big dream$$.

 

The issue with these products is that while cost of materials is $50 (hypothetically), R&D and qual costs are high, compared with the amount of units shipped. Then add to that a decent margin, and the price skyrockets pretty fast. Manufacturers have to cover their costs, and they also have to make a decent margin.

Look at the market segment this type of product targets. PCIE expansion chassis that do anything above 1x are really really expensive. Now you're adding active cables plus serdes logic, and it's going to get worse.

At this market segment, customers expect certifications and compatibility testing as well as a decent amount of guardbanding since they are selling a platform, not just a breakout board.. This eats into costs a lot, which really sucks for us lowly end users. Bplus will be able to sell on the cheap because the whole thing is basically DIY. So while we do get a cheaper product, it's not nearly as well tested. But for end users like us, we don't need something that needs to work with a $4000 card like the red rocket.

 

OK, this Magma thingie is a pretty sophisticated engineering work, that has 2 PCIe 2.0 8X ports and 1 PCIe 2.0 4X and a 250W power supply. Very nice. But think about this - you have a working tech that there is a demand for. You can possibly create multiple versions of the same tech utilizing different levels of sophistication (and sell it to different prices). What we need here is a barebone card with just one PCIe slot and TB output (heck, not even the cable).

I think it is a marketing error, just targeting audience that have specific needs, instead of the more general audience. If they had something like < $300, eGPU people (or people needing simple external PCIe solutions) would (IMO) go for it, hence gain from demand. I think that when you have the core tech, just the implementation remains, which should be trivial.

 

MSI GUS II will cost $150 with psu, cables and enclosure.

that magma thing is a piece of crap. doesn't even work with graphiic cards.

 

We dont know where the bottleneck is, certainly aint in the controller. Its either the connector or the cable

 

When the MSI GUS II is released, and priced at $150, then I'll believe you. Until then, it's all just speculation.

Why hasn't MSI released their product yet? Problems? Qual issues?

Magma is crap? Because you've handled one, benchmarked it, etc... right?

it's pretty obvious you have no idea what goes into qualifying a platform, guardbanding it, and doing compatibility testing. the magma is in a completely different market segment. they probably have a pcie bridge chip onboard just to support 3 pcie slots.

 

sherlock, if you had bother to check their webpage it has a list of supported hardware as well as a part where it says IT IS NOT COMPATIBLE with graphic cards.
yes it's a piece of crap.

also the magma is NOT available just like the MSI GUS II. it is on pre-order for the insane amount of almost $1000. MSI officials already said the price would be $150 in several occasions.

That's a nonsense. Intel clearly states the specification is only 10gbps and that the chips only handle that speed. Also if more speed was possible why they would limit the bandwith? that would be stupid.

 

its not worth for you, for others that are using other types of pcie cards its useful.

No. Intel states that a single channel is 10gbps. There are controllers that support 2 or 4 channels.

Why there isnt a connection that supports the full 4 channels is another matter. Clearly there is no problem in the controller.

Each channel is unidirectional, thus a cable is using at least 2 channels, no matter what, one would be throwing out data and the other small packets.

I remember vaguely that the RMBP was tested using 10gbps in one transfer, memory plays tricks with me, take a look at the twitter account of anand.

 

have you check what subforum is this? have you red the title of this topic?
"Is there any thunderbolt eGPU solution available"

well intel specifications say up to 10gbps. they are the ones who invented the technology and the ones who make the chips. more lanes don't mean more bandwith. they still say 10gbps.

 

I dont care what this thread is about, you said that magma is crap. It wont fill my needs, your needs, or the needs of mostly everyone in this thread. It still fill the needs of several others. Its far from crap, its for professional users.

That screenshot is from the controllers available, where are the specs of each controller?

As I said, a single channel is 10gpbs, those cables ''support'' (we dont know if the cable or the connector is the limitation) 2 channel connections. Each channel is unidirectional.

For example USB 3 is omnidirectional, meaning that the same channel would transmit the data coming in and coming out, thus limiting the bandwidth that is available for each connection.

Thunderbolt doesnt have that problem.

 

graphics cards are "not compatible" because they are not in compliance with the driver requirements that Intel has mandated they meet in order to list a device as thunderbolt compatible. this deals with hotplug support.

my gtx560TI is not listed as compatible with my sonnet echo tbolt adapter, but it works just fine. sherlock.

tbolt is just a link/phy layer change for pcie. the protocol layer is unchanged, so if you have a pcie device on a breakout board over tbolt, it will work, provided you don't have resource conflicts.

 

just buy one for $1000 and run some benchmarks then. oh wait... you can't it's on pre-order for months. there's no real product.

 

I haven't been following the Thunderbolt news as religiously as I once have ~ do you have any recent sources as to the price of the GUS II? I stopped following it after it missed its deadline of release in April (or was it May?), and at that time, the only word on price was that it was estimated to be around $350 with a GPU built in (like a 6670 or something?). The speculation that MSI would sell the enclosure by itself gave birth to the estimation of $150-200 - aka, $350 minus the market price of the card at that time.

 

yes there are several sources check the topic under my signature. sources that were written things by MSI as well as personally confirmed by MSI employees on several occasions. $150 without gpu ofc. but with pcb, enclosure, 150w psu, cables. imo it's a nice deal but still expensive for a simple adapter.

 

this is going to be my final response on this inane topic.

why would i do this? i'm not remotely interested in the product. it's too expensive for what i would use it for. several people, including me, have restated this point several times.

magma is not a product to enable egpu enthusiasts. it's there for professionals who require portable expansion, like someone who does HD video processing, processor offloading, CAD acceleration, etc... the products that will go into a magma case would probably be $2-3K per card. look at the red rocket, it's $5k.

if you've got over $10k worth of hardware inside a magma chassis, you'll want the right tool for the job. can the gus 2 fit 3 full sized pcie cards inside of it? if you've got 3 full sized pcie cards you want to use, are you going to buy 3 gus2's, hack them up to support full length slots, lug around 3 power supplies, etc...? let's do that math really quickly for 3 gus2s. 3*$150 + 3*$50 for the cables. that's $600, and only have half length card support. and it's clunky.

the msi gus 2 is more appropriate for egpus, which is a different market segment than magma is targeting.

you're attacking the "ridiculous" price of magma. that's like me saying ferrrari's are insanely expensive, therefore they are crap. because i could buy a civic to pick up my groceries. the magma is not meant for what you want to use it for. use the right tools for the right job.

have you looked at the compatibility list of cards certified to work, or are in the qualification stages on magma's website? they have to test every single permutation of those cards being HOT PLUGGED into this device. they also have to make sure that none of these devices breaks the other one, and that their drivers don't stomp on other vendor drivers in any configuration. do you know how many permutations that is? then they have to qualify it in a thermal test chamber for guardbanding and 4 corners testing. then they also test it in a daisy chained configuration, with multiple magma 3Ts and other thunderbolt devices.

validation is a HUGE deal. it's why you can go into any store, buy hardware, and plug it into your computer at home and not have issues.

how much do you think this all costs? do you think this is free? when a compatibility issue arises, they have to work with the vendor and root cause the issue. it could be BIOS, drivers, chipset, platform, thermal, etc...

i used to do validation and platform debug, platform qualification, and work with 3rd party vendors on compatibility issues that may arise during qual. it's a major effort and takes months before a platform can be released to the public.

i now do ASIC design and have been in semiconductors for the past 10 years. across almost all disciplines within this industry, validation is by FAR the biggest cost to taping out and shipping any product.

you don't just take a product, wham-bam-thankyou-m'aam, and ship it. you'll be out of business in no time. why has MSI not released their GUS2? what are they waiting for? i can't even find it on their website. maybe their still qualifying the product, maybe they've run into issues that they aren't making public. who knows. it's all speculation at this point. until they release a product, it's just vaporware.

look at all the problems people with egpus are having. for just 1 card. MMIO range problems, TOLUD problems, etc... now take 3 cards in a single system and try making that work.

 

Unfortunately, 'confirmed by MSI employees' hold little water - after all, I was "personally told" that it would come out in April/May. It is now July. I agree that $150 would be an amazing deal - and I would say that I would pay upwards of 250-300 easily (though since it has been so long, I'm not particularly in the market anymore).

What I am hoping for is a reputable source which cites the $150 price point to some official capacity. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to browse through the lengthy thread - or I would.

I'm not doubting you, but MSI.

 

imo they will only sell it with a gpu inside to make more profit. but then they said they won't sell the product yet because they think there's no market for it but may consider sell it in the future. everything is ready. they just have to make more and sell. I think we have more luck with Bplus TH05

 

@nando4 - I am sorry for my lack of information but what about new generation thunderbolt PCIe 3x? Can 40 Gbps transfer rate be exploited for possible better eGPU setups in the future?

 

Yes, the Series-7 chipset has a pci-e 3.0 capable Northbridge as explained. All it needs is a Thunderbolt interposer chip that can negotiate a pci-e 3.0 link. All the specs so far say it's pci-e 2.0 only. Bummer #1.

Bummer #2: the first round of TH05 Thunderbolt adapters are going to x2 2.0. Given x1.2Opt gives similar performance you may want to just use your T430s' expresscards slot for an NVidia eGPU for now.

Bummer workarounds: if we had the Thunderbolt chip pinout then it would be possible to remove the Thunderbolt chip altogether and just route x4 3.0 out to say a x4 capable PE4H 2.4. The Sony Z2 users could do something similar for their PMD. That would be a warranty voiding extreme mod.