Let's figure out how to make a DIY eGPU (previously DIY ViDock)

@nando4: Yep, that sounds pretty good.
But also, maybe add to #4, and request that it be something standard. Like a 4pin Molex, or a PCI-E Power Connector, or SATA Power Port. Whatever supplies enough power. And possibly Multiple of these, to provide enough power to high end cards if nessesary.

@emike09: Maybe you are willing to try it out for us all?
Actually, i want to do it to actually use it. I was thinking of making it and giving it to a family member with an X3100 who want to play COD on his HDTV. So, this would work perfectly. But, yeah, id be all happy that i did the project too.

 

Hehe awesome nice project going here

 

ha i most willing to buy one and test it i think it will be perfect for the xps m1210

 

Yeah! Try it!

 

Uhm at the risk of being 'that guy' who comes in late in the thread and asks something that has been answered -

What's telling the computer to send the video information to the card to be processed?

And also by nature doesn't the information get sent to the card and fed out through the port (VGA/DVI/HDMI) on the back? So would this not require another monitor, should it be feesable?

EDIT:
So I read earlier that there's a program that detects any card attached to the system.

I'm going to assume you're going to just attach an external monitor to the card.

My next question would be really is an express card slot fast enough to process the image quick enough, but given that this product already exists in the retail world I suppose the answer is yes.

 

@nando4: Any response from HWTools yet?

And also (anyone): Would you think the 4850 would be a bad bottleneck? And not worth the extra money for it in the end from a 4670, if it wont be much faster? Or would I see a substantial difference between a 4670 and 4850, as you would in a regular desktop or near it?

 

The biggest issue here is the bandwidth, In my own point of view the HD4850 would be like the most powerful card for this solution since it only uses GDDR3, just dont expect a GDDR5 card running well since that card would lose much performance due the memory speed and bandwidth.

 

Performance: pci-e scaling analysis at x16, x2 and x1 speeds

System	Graphics using PE4H/PE4L/PM3C	RE5 benchmark 1280x800 32-bit
Dell M1330 T7500-2.2	GTX260 x2 1.0 (?) HD4670 x1 1.0 Onboard 8400M GS	53.3 (1280x1024!!) 25.4 9.7

</tter>

Game	Resolution	E6400-3.0 with	x16 2.0	x2 1.0 / x1 2.0	x1 1.0
Resident Evil 5	1280x800	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	71.6 84.6	57.0(-20.4%) 72.7(-14.1%)	34.0(-52.5%) 33.8(-60.0%)
	1680x1050	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	53.0 78.5	43.1(-18.7%) 61.3(-21.8%)	28.1(-47.0%) 30.9(-60.6%)
Crysis	1280x960	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	26.84 37.66	18.82(-26.1%) 32.68(-13.2%)	11.01(-59.0%) 20.11(-46.6%)
	1680x1050	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	20.09 32.77	8.95(-55.5%) 27.25(-16.8%)	4.83(-76.0%) 17.30(-47.2%)

Source: combined RE5 results from Gerry's emails below and darknok44's HD3850 and HD4870 pci-e scaling analysis. See also HD5870 Scaling Analysis x1 2.0, x4 2.0, x8 2.0, x16 2.0

hwtools report of PE2L/PM3/PE4 product status (newest to oldest)

2011/3/14

PM3N ver 1.2 support CLKRUN# request. [sample made]. You can download PM3N schematic: http://www.bplus.com.tw/PDF/PM3N_schemaitc ver12.pdf

PCI-E 2.0 5GT/s still develop now. But test fail still now
​

2011/3/1

Thunderbolt port products is under developing now. Call PE4H ver3.0. Using mini display port cable. Please check attached file.

MINI DP M TO M CABLE Model_SZ.pdf

enclosure also design now.

Let me know if you have thunderbolt port specification or pin assignment. It can help me to speed up the develop.​

2010/11/2

PE4H 1.0, 2.0 19V DC input design for light-duty 12V/1.5A video card.
Need choose PSU for heavy-duty.
PE4H v2.0 add 2 PCS fuse to only protect PCIe 12V
PE4H v2.4 add 5 PCS fuse to portect PCIe 12V, DC19V, USB5V, PCIe3.3V all power

PE4H ver2.0 12V/5V/3.3V power current limit (PCIe 12V protect)
	DC15~20V input	Floppy 12V/5V input	ExCard 3.3V input
PCIe 12V	12V/1.5A (Max)	12V/6A (Max)	12V/0A
USB 5V	5V/1.0A (Max)	5V/3A (Max)	3.0V/1A (Max)
PCIe 3.3V	3.3V/1.5A (Max)	3.3V/3A (Max)	3.3V/1.3A (Max)

PE4H ver2.4 12V/5V/3.3V power current limit (PCIe3.3V, USB5V, PCIe12V, DC19V protect)
	DC15~20V input	Floppy 12V/5V input	ExCard 3.3V input
PCIe 12V	12V/3A (Max)	12V/6A (Max)	12V/0A
USB 5V	5V/1.5A (Max)	5V/1.5A (Max)	5V/1A (Max)
PCIe 3.3V	3.3V/3A (Max)	3.3V/3A (Max)	3.3V/1.3A (Max)

​

2010/10/31

PM3N v1.2 will following your idea. Change PERST# to CLKRUN# delay time. Engineering schedule about Nov/15

PE4H v2.4 add more FUSE (add a FUSE for DC jack, and add a FUSE for USB port) to protect board. V2.4 ETA/schematic about Nov/20

PE4H Ver24_dimension.pdf
PE4H_VER24_schematic.pdf
PM3Nv12_schematic.pdf​

2010/9/9

PE4H ver2.3 will add JUMP short for floppy cable power 12V to PCIe 12V directly. But this JUMP is “NA”, “no assembly”. Please check attached file for schematic and dimension. PE4H version history as below:

Date/Version/Description

2009 Oct 07 / 1.0 / First Release
2010 Mar 07 / 2.0 / Support x4 PCIe connector
2010 Aug 01 / 2.1 / Support PERST# delay timing, Add 3.3V, 5V, 12V, PERST# LED
2010 Aug 25 / 2.2 / Add 3V, 5V, 12V POWER input conn, Add 12V_DC fuse, 5V_USB fuse
2010 Sep 06 / 2.3 / Add JP4 jump for FD_12V bypass to PCIe conn

Ver2.1, V2.2 test not so good. So I don’t have release it.

PE4H Ver2.3 with HP4A engineering sample will test next week.

PCIe [3.0] 8Gbps will be supported when I get mainboard and video card next year.

PE4H_20100825 Model (1).pdf
PE4H_VER23_schematic_2010SEP07.pdf​

2010/8/1
Let you know a bad news.

Attached file is PE4H ver2.1 and HP4A photo. But test failed. Engineering sample of next version schedule will postpone to Aug/28.

By the way, I don’t have plan to develop legacy product. Such as Cardbus, mPCI



2010/7/6
I got many people suggestion from notebookreview

The PE4H ver2.1 add PERST# delay for avoid BIOS detection. And improve DC/DC schematic to 9A. please check attached comparison.pdf. Ver2.1 price should same with older version.

Schedule :

7/5 PCB process
7/13 PCBA assembly and test
7/19 engineering sample release when test PASS. Totally 10PCS
8/31 mass production. Totally 300PCS


pe4h_schematic_2010july05.pdf
PE4H comparison.pdf

2010/6/9
PE4H 2.1 and PE4L 1.5 under development now. My idea is use adjustable component to delay 1~30/sec. It may have engineering sample about July/E/2010

New item HP4A for PE4H 2.x. Please check attached file. The engineering sample about June/E/2010 the price should be $25.

HP4A_dimension.pdf
hp4a_2010may25_draft.pdf​

2010/4/14

PE4H V2 engineering sample available on Apr/21. Totally 7PCS goods will sale on www.HWtools.net “buy it now”. May/14 available when mass production smooth going.

2010/3/12

I will update my PE4H to support x4. Please check attached file for reference.Engineering sample available on Mar/25

PE4H Ver2.0.pdf
pe4h_2010mar11.pdf

2009/10/23
For your PE4L hotswapping request and whitelist problem. PM3N new version.

For x4 request. we start develop new product for you. It can support x4 2.0 link update from PE4L. product name will be “PE4M”. but “PE4M” engineering sample schedule may delay to Dec/2009.

2009/9/29
[Nando comment: Reference below to AC/DC adapter is when using the PE4H's regulated DC input jack.
Can bypass this completely and use the alternate 4-pin 12V molex input to provide pci-e slot power.
PM3N mini pci-e adapter update adds a jumperable delay to workaround the sort of bios whitelisting that halts bootup process with an error message when a non whitelist compatible device is detected.]

Using notebook’s AC/DC adapter(19V/4.5A) is recommend. consider modify spec to “16~20V/4.5A”

PM3N add jumpable reset timing. PERESET# delay 6.9sec to avoid whitelist. Please check attached file.
PM3N Schematic

2009/9/21
Finally, PE4H hardware test passed on my Dell M1330 platform.
PE4H engineering sample 14PCS should release Sep/25. You can buy more next week.

Pilot run 300PCS should launch Oct/16

We will do more compatibility test next week.



2009/9/1
PE4H is H/W debug now. Please check attached file for PE4H photo and schematic. PE4H engineering sample also will released on Sep/11 when H/W test PASS

Besides, I will improve PE3N for Lenovo, HP, Toshiba notebook compatibility. My idea is delay RESET timing avoid BIOS whitelist check.

PE4L with EC2C is mass production now. I will put it to my “buy it now” this week.

View attachment pe4h_schematic.pdf



2009/8/20 - Mason Tsai as shown here

1, Our PE4 will separate into PE4H and PE4L two types, because marketing inquired,

The different between PE4H and PE4L

A, H: use 16X connector, L use 1x connector

B, the design point of view: H can use AC/DC adapter from 12V to 20V, But L only can use 12V also USB must connect

C, H is double speed than L, because H support two PCIe signals,
In the other words, The PE4L is cost down version of PE4H
2, Status: PE4L is available now , but PE4H is still under developing right now
3, Regarding your video card support, Can you tell me what kind of OS you use it right now? Vista or Win 7?
4, The unit price of PE4L is USD$35 and PE4H is USD$50,

Mason Tsai.

2009/8/18
Before setup PE4L. with heavy power loading VGA card. Please prepare 2 things as below yourself:

1. A POWER supply enough power watt for your VGA card such as GTX260, HD4890(suggest 500W), see IMAGE_4951.jpg

2. A paper clip. Connector PIN4(green), PIN5 (black) to POWER ON, Please be carefully. See IMAGE_4931.JP

For light power loading VGA card a AC/DC 12V/6.67A adapter. please see IMAGE_4901.jpg

View attachment Schematic_EC2C.pdf View attachment Schematic_PE4L.pdf View attachment Schematic_PM3N.pdf

PE4H should finished design tomorrow.



2009/8/16
Today, bought Nvidia GTX260 VGA card for test.

PE4L with PE3N or EC2C test PASS with Nvidia GTX260 on my DELL_M1330. Please check attached file for Evil5 test result (average 53.3fps, so so >~~< ). Anyway better then internal nvidia8400M (average 8.1fps)

Please check attached file.

PE4L have a small problem, PCBA too HOT!!, I will add heat sink for mass production. PE4L product should sale when I got the heat sink from vendor.

I will write down install procedure tomorrow.

By the way, PE4H support all your request. engineering sample schedule may 8/31

PE4H Support x2 link PCIe cable from expresscard and mPCIe slot.



2009/8/14
8/20 will back from China,

PE4L “L mean Low cost version” use PCIe x1 conn, basically, PE4L design for PCIe x1 add-on card. But you can insert x16 VGA card for test.

EC2C Expresscard adapter for PE4L

PM3N mPCIe adapter for PE4L

My new product PE4H should meet your all request. It hardly design. Any way I will finished next week.

2009/7/31
I have business trip to my China factory the day after tomorrow. I will assign an engineer to test my product HP1 with PE2L on INTEL ICH10 main-board for PCIe 2.0 interface. For 2x mode.

Basically, my product include own custom PCIe cable can support 5Gbps/s for 2x PCIe interface.

From ExpressCard.org info

Brad Saunders, chairman of PCMCIA: "The ExpressCard 2.0 Standard brings a whole new level of performance to the notebook market. Users of applications such as streaming media, flash memory and large data transfers will see up to 10 times higher transfer rates using ExpressCard 2.0 Standard products. We can expect to see these products on the market in 2011."

ExpressCard 2.0 Standard

• Adopts recent updates to PCI Express* and USB* standards, which now support transfer rates of up to 5Gbps:

– PCI Express 2.0, 2X faster than its previous version
– SuperSpeed USB version 3.0, 10X faster than Hi-Speed USB (2.0)

For combined ExpressCard and mini-PCIe to x2 !!??

It may need BIOS identify. I prefer the ExpressCard 2.0 coming.

I will put PE2L engineering sample 15PCS to “buy it now” on my web-site tomorrow. Thanks​

2009/7/27
[Nando4 comment Resident Evil benchmarks on a Toshiba P8800-2.66 and T7500-2.2 Dell M1330 using HD4670, HD4500, 8800M GS (highest=25FPS) are below.Consider the Resident Evil 59.5 FPS on a E5200-3.2/HD4670 at full x16 pci-e 2.0 speeds here captured from this video.]

I will add USB2.0 connector to PE4 project.

PM3/PE4 is passive adapter can support PCIe2.0. but frankly speaking. I never test with PCIe 2.0 platform.

Besides, Please check attached file for Evil5 benchmarks. I will test more VGA card and platform. Thanks.

​

2009/7/24
Sorry for my a mistake.

PE2L NO 4PIN connector. A DC jack for 12V input only.

Please check attached photo file. Thanks.

​

EDIT: Correction to PE2L specifications, simulating strikeout with XX below

2009/7/24
Dear Nando,

I will release PE2L-ES1 product info to my website(7/28). and Engineering sample also put up my “buy it now” next Friday(7/31).


PE2L upgrade from PE2. Spec as below:

---------------------

XX->Add 4PIN Floppy connect with Molex 4Pin cable adapter. For ATX 12V input. <-XX

Add DC jack. For 12V dc adapter input

PCIe 1x OPEN type connecter. OPEN type mean “Not only insert 1x but also insert 4x 8x 16x Add-on Card”

---------------------

PM3/PE4 project following your idea and redesign now. I will make 30PCS Engineering sample on Aug/8th

Launch on Aug/12th if H/W test ALL PASS.
​

2009/7/22
Molex 4PIN connecter should add my design. Thank you for your advice.
​

2009/7/21
Thank you for your information. Let you know a good news.

DELL M1330 test pass when using 2G RAM.

DELL M1330 4G RAM/ Win7 64bit/ nVidia 8400 GS VGA card / PE4 FAIL
DELL M1330 2G RAM/ Win7 64bit/ nVidia 8400 GS VGA card / PE4 PASS

Toshiba Satellite 4G RAM / Win7 64bit / nvidia 8400 GS VGA card / PE4 PASS
Toshiba Satellite 2G RAM / Win7 64bit / nvidia 8400 GS VGA card / PE4 PASS

Please check attached files.

Tom Clancy’s H.A.W.X game playing smoothly.
I will do more VGA card and notebook test with 3DMark benchmark.

For your minicard slot application. I will create a project for you.

Model name: PM3

Project name: mPCIe to PCIe adapter (include custom PCIe cable 30cm or 100cm)
PM3 with PE4 price should $40~50

I will release PM3 and PE4 engineering sample to www.HWtools.net when available.

Thank you very much

Gerry Chen,
www.HWtools.net

​

End-notes

I am awaiting more news on the PM3/PE4 product incorporating suggested design elements as shown here.

 

doesnt the pe4 give us the opportunity to have better quality than the vidock? Allowing us to put any gpu we want to? How would we do this if we wanted to do a gpu that required power?

Nice work Nando
+rep

 

If this work, you guys should sell it!

 

Ok, im a bit confused about the response...

About the PE4...
So, its going to have a 4pin molex and a Floppy Connector?
He said following your idea, its up for redesign. so, does that mean he took all the suggestions?

Sorry, just confirming.

 

is it really that simply, buy this $30 so dollar pe4, plug in any pci-e x16 gpu and hook it up to a external, then you now have the power of a desktop?

can it really be that simple and cheap.

Also is there any way to re-route it back to the laptop screen?

 

Why should it be expensive? After all its just an adapter...

 

well i suppose it just blows my mind that people take this simple technology change the name to "ViDock" and charge $300+ dollars.

but how do we power gpu's that need extra power on the pe4?

Is there a way to get ahold of the pci bracket from a desktop (ya know where you screw in the gpu on a normal desktop) so that I can put this in a small unit rather than it sitting out in the open unprotected?

theoretically, couldn't this setup slaughter any modern gaming laptop if you put in the right gpu in?

 

Well, you also need a power supply.
This powers the PCI-E slot, and therefor most of the card. Then if the card needs extra power connectors, the powersupply will power that too.

Now, what kind of power connector the PE4 uses, i still dont think we know...

 

Hehehehe listen my young grasshopper.

Extra power? easy: just use a computer PSU as power source say 400W (just in case because it is an overkill).
PCI bracket?: You could just mod a case, I need to see it in person to have some ideas for a case .

Theoretically in my own point of view you can put up to a GDDR3 gaming card, like I said before the HD4850 would be just fine, the HD4890 uses alot more of bandwidth and faster memory and the PCI X1 would be a serious bottleneck, but certainly we cant know before we try . ATIs seem to work better than NVIDIAs at X1.

 

Nice news guys!
I will wait some time to see if they can offer all-in-one-box solution + for express-card, if they will then count me in
This tool would be almost like a console box, but for laptops (I have one month vacation = time to get back into gaming)

 

but this takes x16 does it not, but im an nvidia person anyway.

not a case, jsut a small box, like the vidock, small compact and protected.

dont most gpu;s require higher than 400w?

 

Im all the way to make this happen!, I just bought an ATI HD4850 GDDR3 512mb, also Ill buy the PE4 when its avalible. I also have an external PSU, many power adaptors if not I can go to the university to make one, many laptops to test with, and some old motherboards with all necessary to run XP with PCIE X8 wich can be downclocked to X1, I have everything now except the PE4.
Wish me luck guys .

 

Yes, the PE4 takes an X16, but when it plugs into Expresscard, expresscard is connected to the motherboard via X1.

And no. All cards take well under that. They may say, at least 400W power supply, but thats factoring in all the other things in the PC. The GPU itself takes much less. Say, the (or atleast most) 4850 takes 125W Total.

 

so the desktop gpu will not be very good in performance since it wil be plugged into a x1 slot? so a 350w would be good for any gpu?

 

It is degraded a little, but this is the same with the ViDock, and its reported only 6% loss in performance. If you look earlier in the thread, there are some links to comparisons that have larger differences. You dont want to try to plug like a GTX 295 into it and expect desktop performance. But a lower end card like a 4670 as said in the ViDock is only 6%. So, a card like the 4850 should b a little higher we think, but not a huge difference. Past that you will probably be paying for more than your actually getting.

Yes, a 350W would be more than enough for any graphics card.

 

I vote for FTWDock

what about 8800 or 9800

 

As we all into naming, I suggest:

GEL or GELX (Gaming External Laptop)
"I used my ATi-HD4890-GEL to play my fav game on TV."
LEGX = (Laptop Extreme Gaming GFX)
"I used LEGX on my ATi-HD4890 and it was awsome.
"
Some words I used/suggest to use:
Extreme - (E or X)
Gaming - (G)
Laptop - (L) - (Lap) - (Top)
Station - (S) - (N as in last letter)
Console - (C) - (Con) - (E as in last letter)
External - (E) - (X) - (L as in last letter)
Video - (V) - (Vid) - (O as in last letter)
GFX - ( You guess )


By the way, I suggest we keep away from names like "FTW"= "For The Win" as it doesn't give much details about this DIY.

Last thing, I feel it's better to let Moral Hazard and Nando4 to pick few names and after agreeing on one we use it or if each of them got few names then a nice VOTE will do it

 

my original FTW was just a joke, but thats ok

some suggestion:

EDGE - External Dedicated Gaming Engine
ELGA - External Laptop Gaming Apparatus
PEGA - Portable External Gaming Apparatus (or substitute P for powerful)
GPU - Gaming Portable Unit
GOD - Graphics On Demand (or Gaming)
GAP - Graphics Are Portable

 

Everything should be done in on thread (It will get hard for people to keep on news if there was like 2 threads), you might aswell temporary change the thread topic and add "- Sugget a name" or something so you get people attention

Nice names, I like GOD (LOL people will change their religon or faith) and GPU (This will change the standerds)

Glade you like the names
nando4 = Best Research Director

 

EDGE and GOD sound fantastic .
lol think of this: SUP! dude turn on the god!!!
or: Hey be careful with the EDGE!

Nice names! .

 

Heh yes, but I think GOD would perhaps offend quite a few people, and EDGE is already used in many things. I think you'd have a fight on your hands with GAP and GPU would just make things confusing.

imho GELX & ELGA are some of the better ones, but why abbreviate it all the way?

LEGXtreme (Laptop External Graphics)
EGRapter (a mix of external + graphics + adapter)
Lapdocics (a combination of laptop + dock + graphics)

etc - you get the idea.

 

i think you are all jumping the gun on the naming scheme
let's get one working first

 

i forgot to put it in my post but each one of those would be a prefix to either: dock or station

GFXSdock - Gaming From Xternal Source
MADDdock - Mutual Assured Domination Device (lolz)
MAGDock - Mutually Assured Gaming Device (or Domination)
GAMEdock - Graphics At Maximum Externally (or Gaming)

 

How about ExBox
coming up with names is not my strong point ><

 

I was struck with the concept of "Gaming My Way" or "Graphics My Way," combining the DIY aspect with the intent of the device.
So my submission is the GMW Base (with "GMW" prounouced "geh-mau")

 

So guys, I guess I might volunteer to make it into wiki after we decided a name for it (I almost wrote most parts of it, except the name)
I agree with Fragilexx, the name we pick shouldn't confuse anyone as within CPU/GPU and shouldn't offend anyone.

 

Nice but dont forget to put the names of nando and moral hazard! they deserve this !

 

Maybe eGPU for external GPU?

 

I like eGPU.

But lets focus on the important part. Making one first.

 

Thanks Nando for keeping us update
btw, can you ask him if he can provide it in a box or something? I mean like a final product he might use acrylic sheet (plexiglass)

 

does anyone know of any small yet powerful power supplies that could power a gpu inside of this?

 

This will be more than enough in case you want to use ATI HD4890 http://www.mini-box.com/PW-200M-DC-DC-power-supply (12v input only)

 

So how about we think about SLI/Xfire?

A lot of notebooks should have an express card slot and a miniPCIe port.
So if you use both a PE4 and a PM3 you could get two cards working.

Am I way off here?

 

chipset support and port allocation for x2 pci-e link speed

According to ICH8M/ ICH9M datasheet, the I/O chipset has 6 pci-express root ports which can be linked to provide a x2 port, or for the hardcore modder, a x4 port. A x2 link doubling the pci-e bandwidth. Systems with very powerful CPUs and GPUs could certainly benefit in gaming performance with a x2 link as shown here.

What does this mean about the ICH8M pci-e port1-port4?

1/ the 2xmini pci-e port, or mini pci-e port and expressport can be combined to form a x2 port.
2/ If willling to disassemble your notebook AND tap off ICH8M's port1-port4 pins AND run them to the pci-e card of interest, then could have a x4 port. [ this is for a hardcore modder ]

Specification allows 2 ports on a single mini pci-e port? Does your notebook already have a x2 capable single mini pci-e port?

Top: PCI Express Mini Card Electromechanical Specification 1.0 Left: mini pci-e and the RESERVED second lane connectors Your notebook vendor may have added a second lane into the RESERVED pins of the mini pci-e port. Only problem is getting confirmation from the vendor of such wiring. I've superimposed the lane 1 pins in yellow(yellow) onto the second lane's "reserved" pins as a suggestion to how they may have connected this. Worth performing continuity tests against what would be the GND reserved pins to figure if it's worth further investigation. According to the specification the pins should not be terminated (ie: they should be disconnected) unless they are used AND they can only be used as a second pci-e port/lane.

I performed the checks below on my ICH8M I/O equipped HP 2510P has 2x mini pci-e slots (no expressport). Enabled by default are port 1 (Device 28 Function 0)and port 2 (Device 28 Function 1) when I boot into XP. I was able to determine port2 as my mini pci-e slot with wifi card. Port1 is unknown but appears to be the RESERVED 2nd lane on the same wifi mini pci-e slot. See below:

1/ Enabled/disabled ports to identify which physical port is associated with port1 and port2. I was able to determine that port2 is my mini pci-e slot. I also identified that when I turned off port1, my wifi
radio went off, though if I mask the "reserved 2nd lane" pins on the wifi card, it's still functional. It
appears that port1 is used internally for communications.

2/ My WWAN mini-pci-e slot has the WWAN appear as a USB device as shown here. Disabling port1 had no effect on turning WWAN off. Furthermore, placing my wifi card in the WWAN mini pci-e slot resulted in the wifi not being found in "Scan for New Hardware". This suggests that my WWAN mini pci-e card only has USB and WWAN pins connected and the port1 I am looking for is NOT related to it.

3/ Physical continuity checks on the RESERVED 2nd lane GND pins lining up as show above left.

RESERVED 2nd lane GND pins are connected on the Toshiba Tecra A9 and 2510P as shown above left. Tecra had some more details discovered as shown here. The second lane RESERVED link may have a few pin connection possibilities as shown here which fortunately the mini pci-e specification tells us All PCI Express receivers incorporate automatic Lane polarity inversion as part of the Link initialization and training and will correct the polarity independently on each Lane.

If not, then consider combining expressport/mini pci-e port AND another mini pci-e systems

To get a hypothetical x2 pci-e lane working as shown above would require attaching an extra 4 pci-e wires combined port1 and port2 to say a PE4L or PE4H. Before doing this consider:

1/ how many Device 28: Function XX listings you have?

This tells us active mini pci-e ports are enabled in the bios on startup. On my system there are the 2, as enabled by the bios. Note: we've seen some bios do not disable unused pci-e ports, so this is not a reliable indicator of how many physical ports are available.

2/ For each Device 28: Function xx, map out which physical mini pci-e/expressport is what port1, port2 by disabling ports or removing devices and checking status, as indicated below.

port 1 - D28:F0 = physical device ??
port 2 - D28:F1 = physical device ??
port x - D28:F(x-1) = physical device ?? (up to port 6)

Only port 1 and port 2 can be combined to form a x2 port, so need to ID which physical devices they correspond to. I'm hopeful the vendors have standardised which is which, eg: expressport-port1 and mini-pcie-port2 or vice-versa. Proceed to check yours using baredit as shown below:


2: Shows two active/enabled pci-e ports: D28;F0 and D28;F1
3: Root port configuration tells us link width(bit 1:0 = 00h for x1 mode, 01h for x2 mode)
4: Root port configuration with my wifi card installed in port2. 00h= port 1 and port 2 are x1 ports

If you have 2 or more physical expresscard/mini-pci-e, which is port1 and which is port2?

There are two ways I've come with below to do this. Testing performed only with a mini pci-e wifi card.

Method 1: Enable/disable port1 and port2 to ID what's physically attached to it

Here we disable a single port at a time and look for a some a function provided by an expressport or mini pci-e port to stop working. Right 1: How to enable/disable mini pci-e ports by switching bits on/off. Right 2-top: Need to find the RCBA to offset from as shown. On my system RCBA is FED90001, so add 3418h sees my configuration registers at FED93418. There is more RCBA detail here if you need it. Right 2-bottom: port1-bit16 and port2-bit17 shown as enabled. Writing a 1 to those locations disables those ports. Eg: if I write a 1 to bit 17 my wifi light switches and the device disappears from Device Manager. writing a 0 to bit 17 re-enables the port, Device Manager -> Scan Devices makes the device reappear and my wifi light comes back on. This way I know for sure port2 is my wifi card's mini pci-e slot

Method 2: Check negotiated link width with expresscard/mini pci-e card installed then removed


1: Negotiated link width register 52 bit 9:4. 01h=x1 link, 10h=x2 link
2: register 52 bit 9:4 when it's empty. 00h=not connected ( I assume!)
3: register 52 bit 9:4 with a wifi card. 01h=x1 link
So on a HP 2510P, with it's 2xmini pci-e ports, a x2 link is a electrically possible. My read if the IC8M datasheet suggests the x2 link would be autonegotiated by the chipset. I cannot prove this to be the case at the moment. If it does require manual tweaking with baredit, the tweaks can be saved and replayed as an automated process as a shortcut or in the startup folder (easy!).

 

This would work with a nvidia 9800 that needed power? Sorry im not much of a Ati user so im not sure of the nvidia equivalent to the 4890hd?

 

@moral hazard , nando4:
Wouldn't using 2x graphic card will reduce the bandwidth? I mean wouldn't it be easier when designing a laptop's motherboard to link expresscard ports with mini pcie (saving space, but affecting the bandwidth? also remember mini-pcie/expresscard wasn't meant to be used with gfx card)

I hope this picture http://www.medhurst.de/main/acer/acer_inside_1.jpeg clears what I am trying to say (look at the left side/wlan)

I am not sure about nVidia but according to this chart http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/chart...uality/3DMark06-v1.1.0-3DMark-Score,1340.html I think its near Nvidia Geforce GTX 280 and GTX 275 and on other chart its about 1% more than Nvidia Geforce GTX 285 ,on the other hand I am sure it will use less power than 200w (140w to 160w) for your card

 

Well, Let me try to explain it in better way:
The way you are trying to do is to have 2 cards and connecting them to 2 different ports (expresscard & mini-pcie) , right? what I am trying to tell is what if these 2 different ports are just 1 (expresscard -> connected to -> mini-pcie)? then you are only going to link 2 different cards into one port (More like USB mods)

Hopefully that day came ... hopefully.

 

I might be wrong after all (hopefully), I was assuming the worst case ever.

 

Hey guys lets ask the guy with the vidock to run the RES5 benchmark, want to compare these 2 solutions.

It looks like a 50% drop in performance , but this should be suitable for laptops with integrated graphics!, I want to see tests with the HD4850 .

EDIT: I saw his results!!! he got around 26FPS too!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!!!!! this thing rox then! is the SAME thing and hell its MUCH cheaper!!!!. OMG!

 

Awesome! So, it sounds like we have done it.
So... Now we are just waiting for the PE4... to be released!

So, if the Expresscard and MiniPCIe are combined, this would be the same problem with the ViDock as well.
We could just shut off our network cards (if that is whats in your mini pcie) when we want to game, and that should stop Mini PCIe from taking and bandwith away from the Expresscard. We could do tests with on and with the mini PCIe card off, or installed or not. To see if it really makes a difference.

 

Excelent idea!!!! +rep.

That would be interesting since int theory the network card "steals" bandwidth from the expresscard port!.

 

I agree with MexicanSnake.
btw you know that you are genius, and nice idea to make sure if expresscard&mini-pcie are combined!

Now we want someone with vidock or mayeb Gerry to remove the wifi from mini-pcie and do the benchmark (Before and after)
I think a preformance gain by 3%~10% would prove if mini-pcie is stealing any bandwidth

 

this all just got way to complicated for me.