Let's figure out how to make a DIY eGPU (previously DIY ViDock)

Well, right now you can get the PE2L, which is expresscard to X1 PCIe.
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE2L.html

Or the PE4, which is Expresscard to X16 PCIe. Which should have been available today, but apparently, not yet.
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4.html

And for Mini-PCIe, you can buy the PM2C.
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PM2C.html
But you will want a mini PCI-e extension cable, so, i belive its $100, look on the front page.

All of which above can be bought here...
http://www.hwtools.net/Buy_It_Now.html

 

thanks guys i went ahead and bought a pe2L. the pe4 looks great but i just have no need for a x16 slot all i wanted was the x1 slot so ill give it a go when i get it hopefully my hard earned money didnt go to waste

 

good luck

If it doesn't work, can you please post the problem here so we can help

 

But the transfer rate is limited by the 1X expresscard rate. Don't really get the point here. Performances will be poor as for a desktop graphic card...

 

There should only be a small performance drop 15-20% as this is based on the technology and ideas brought forward by the new Vidock.

 

It is a 40-60% Drop. Between X1 and X16.

The vidock is no exception. Expresscard connects at X1 to your laptop motherboard.
If you look back a few pages, you will see my post about how the Vidocks claim of 6% performance loss, is untrue.

All Villagetronic did, was make an adapter. Thats it. the same thing as the PE4. An expresscard to PCIe adapter.

 

oh if it doesnt work ill gladly ask for help but if it does work then ill post how amazing the laptop sounds now lol. either way ill keep yah "in the loop" hopefully the dont lose my package this time *knocks on wood*

 

Where is that PE4?!?!?!?

 

Relax, waiting usually means good news (HW might have a good surprise or something)

 

Yeah, i know...

 

^^^
Okay... So, theres no more PE4?

Now, the one we suggested changes to, will be the PE4H? And available next week?
Just clarifying.

 

GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYS!!!!!!!!!!

I have it on my hands!!!!!

NOT TESTED YET!!!.


But it looks pretty good overall, pictures to follow, is smaller than I thought, and guess what? The "special cable" Seems to be a new hdmi revision, the cable says hdmi 1.3b.

More updates pics and vids to follow! .

 

Yummy!! Looking forward to your next post

 

Congrats

What are you waiting?!

Where are they? I can't see them! I want them NOW

Just kidding, take your time, no shaky hands, you don't want to s***w up everything, right

 

Here as promised:





I made some test but my lappy doesnt detect the HD4850, thats because (I think) I have to plug it to a PSU, the other wall charger of 12v and 5amps cant handle the card.

The BIGGEST problem is that the damn card uses a different connector por the psu power as shown here:
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/palit_hd4850_sonic/

Is there any way I could jump the power?, can I jump the power using a standar 4 pin molex?

Nando Im sure you will have the answers .

 

Ok, I get your idea, pretty nice , but will the card work properly? I mean I know that 120W will be enough power if I use the modded PSU but what about the 8pin connector? Is it the same thing?

Urmmm maybe I could mod that connector . 120W should be enough for a
HD4850 .

Btw the PE2L datasheet says that the top is 12V and 5 amps.

 

To be honest I dont want to try to overpower the PCI-E lane in my personal point of view bad things could happen...

Well my main idea is to use the 60W power adapter that I bought form ebay it fits perfectly ! and use the modded PSU to provide extra 120W to the mix but the damn connector is different but it seems that it acts like the other connectors, maybe taking a yellow cable, jumping it to the other two holes and then provide ground to the rest of the pins...

I just need more reference about the PCI-E adapters ...

On a side note:
Curious there is a green LED but it doesnt turn on...

 

PCI-E specification snippet here says PCI-Express requiring > 75W power requires two separate power sources. Each PCI-E input is rated at 75W.



The 6+2-pin, or 8-pin, PCIe connector as shown here

High end PCI Express (PCIe) graphics cards often need auxillary power. This power is delivered to the card via either a 6-pin PCIe connector or a 6-pin and 8-pin power connector.

PCI Express graphics cards without any kind of auxillary power connector are called "75W cards" because 75W is the most power the card can pull from' the PCI Express slot. A graphics card with one 6-pin PCIe power connector is called a "150W card" because the 6-pin allows the card to draw up to 150W of power. A graphics card with two 6-pin PCIe power connectors is called a "225W card" and a graphics card with one 6-pin PCIe and one 8-pin PCIe power connector is called a "300W card"

BFG power supplies use what is referred to as a "6+2-pin" PCIe power connector. This is because the power connectors have a removable pair of pins that converts an 8-pin PCIe connector into a 6-pin PCIe power connector.

 

@mexicansnake, can you try another card like an ethernet card if you have one?

 

Yeah perhaps Ill put something like that or a lower end vga card say 8400gs from an old friend...

Ok seee ya tomorrow I want to take a cat nap .

 

ok i received my pe2l today as well very unexpectedly fast? anyway heres my result

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/324/successm.jpg

IT WORKS GREAT!!!!!

i finally have good audio on my lappy. i did notice that my adapter did not come with a dc adapter (is it supposed to come with one?) anyway first test was from just laptop powered. it turned on the optical audio port but not the xfi light on the top and i figured it wasnt enough power. so i took the adapter from my external western digital drive (12v power havent checked amp but ill check it later) anyway with this plugged in i got full power and just plugged in the adapter and omg a green screen? didnt get to read what it said but i tried again.... green screen again this time i saw it said something to do with nv something.sys (hmm vid card) anyway what turned out was green screenin my laptop was the hdmi port was plugged into an external tv that somehow made me green screen. anyway after i got it booted into windows i immediately installed the driver for my titanium card. ran an update to get the dts connect pack and blue screen. im like is going on... i moved the stupid card and it came out of the pcie x1 port a little. so i pushed it back in and started up pc again this time update went without a hitch. restarted control panel not recognizing card... ... ok window pops up do you want to select new audio device (i figure oh what the hell why not) !? it worked? ok so i go into the panel and enable dts connect start a vid.... no audio.... ah damnit.... ok i find out im a moron and didnt pick it as default device so i pick xfi spdif as default and launch a vid.... no audio.....NO!!! #$%&.... find out im a moron again i have to pick speakers as default device when xfi is in dts connect mode lol launch a vid again and OH YEAH!!! full 5.1 DTS surround sound.

i just hope that i can still use an external display *off for some more testing*

EDIT: @ mexican snake (love that name ) anyway my green led doesnt come on either. i dunno what thats all about.

 

Which one would work with Thinkpad T61P? Does this have Pci express card or mini Pci express card?

 

it has an express card slot.

so the PE4L or the PE4H would be good when they are available.

Edit: If you can't wait then the PE2L should do for now.

 

@ryokowashu Yeah yeah, my vga starts! but just the fan, windows doesnt recognize the card... It still needs more power... but today Ill figure out how to boot it or use a different card, Im glad that it worked for you !.

That green led is a mystery .

Edit could you post pictures of your hardware? Im curious! Btw I have and adapter of 5 amps @ 12V...

 

ok i took a few pics as fast as i could cause i am apparently busy on Saturday

anyway heres a link to the gallery of pics

http://img89.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img2576o.jpg

if you need pics of something else let me know.

 

Guys Here is the good, the bad and the ugly .

Good: Modded the connectors of the HD4850 and BOOTS!
Windows vista recognized new hardware!, then I installed the driver...

The bad: I have to turn off and then turn on the power regulator to make it work.

The ugly, the external display stays black and windows says that there is a problem with an "error 43" also I had to put 1gb of ram instead of 8gb .

Any suggestions? Pictuures to follow.

 

Hey, you know that you can always give a call to the cat in your avy, it seems pretty capable

I don't like W7, but maybe you could give it a try, in order to run the d**n thing

 

Wow mexican snake that is awesome!! But look at all those wires
Hope you get it working fully!!

 

Bad news... I tried many MANY things and it didnt work...

Well at least not with my laptop , aaaaaaaaaanyway Ill try other VGAs and other kind of cards and of course other laptops .

Btw I got the right power connector for the laptop and I got the same results...

 

What didnt work? games?

 

Compatibility List

1/ ViDock's Compatibility list showing confirmed success with Integrated graphics: Dell E6400, HP 6930p/2530P(2GB only)/2133 , Satellite L305B (not 4GB) + other Nvidia/ATI dedicated graphics systems

2/ Lenovo_X200 (2GB only)

3/ Tomshardware ViDock: operating system factors and workarounds

Recommend you:
- refer to above links to understand compatability issues
- use 2GB of RAM for initial testing.
- use Win7 64-bit for it's far better dual video card support. 64-bit having the > 4GB addressable memory space to work with.
- switch off PE2L until you bootup Win7, then power it up "scan for new hardware". Bios may have problem allocating pci-e resources on boot, so then can have W7 do it for you by effectively hotplugging the device.

 

Its official, for the las 8 hours I tried ALMOST everything and it didnt work, the os (vista and 7) recognized the card but not more... No external display video ...

Ill try later with more hardware

 

Uhh... not good.

I wonder why it is not working... Did you try disabling the graphics already in your laptop through device manager?

...Not giving me very good hopes for mine. Maybe I should cancel my 4870 order, before it ships.

 

Three things I can suggest: 1/ Ensure JP1 is selected Also make sure that JP1 is jumper set to 1-2. PE2L schematic tells us: JP1, 1-2, 3.3V POWER from NOTEBOOK (Default) JP1, 2-3, 3.3V POWER from External DC The circuit snippet on the right indicates the green LED should switch on when there is 3.3V coming in.

2/ Ensure you have 2xMolex to PCI-E wiring setup correctly

If you disconnect the pci-e power and just have the 12V DC jack powering the PE2L + HD4850, does Win7 still find the card? If so, it would indicate to me that you haven't wired up the Molex <-> pci-e power correctly so some parts of it don't work, like displaying something on an external. You want 8 separate wires running from the pci-e card to the PSU to carry the 12V/GND. Well, you could make it 7, and just jumper the 2nd GND on pin7/8 off it, but might as well just run 8 separate AWG20 (thich) wires, capable of transmitting the power, to be sure


3/ Try another system or newer drivers

You already have HD3650 graphics in your Gateway. I think you'd need the latest ATI Catalyst drivers to get it to work concurrently with the HD4850.

 

Guys I was thinking when I was drinking a beer that the system configuration was correct, the power configurations were ok, the problem seems to be the card itself, I mean it was acting up!, then I decided to see if my theory was correct and then I opened the PC of my house (My mom and brothers almost killed me XD) and then I plugged the HD4850 and it didnt work! it seems that I have a faulty HD4850, Ill try to use other card perhaps a better one .

Btw nando I also tried that, I spent 8 hours, I tried to power the card with only 60W and it boots, and also it shows on windows vista/7. To be honest I also think that there is a problem with the resource allocation of the card, I mean, if you look at my pictures you will find that the system posts the HD4850 having DDR2 and 0mb of VRAM :s, also it has the same bios of my HD3650...

I tried MANY drivers, same story...

BTW I forgot to mention something, sometimes when the adapter is attached and when I power the VGA card, the screen of my laptop turns black and refreshes, then everything returns to normal.

 

BIG UPDATE from Gerry of Hwtools.net

Big updated from hwtools on progress of PE4H/PE4L/PM3C product, copied on progress link, duplicated below. Gerry has a GTX260 running 53.3 FPS in RE5 benchmark at 1280x1024/32-bit. 53.3 is an excellent result. A Q9550 2.83Ghz desktop using GTX260 gets 76.2 FPS here using full x16 2.0 link.

When we compare the supplied performance data , product images and his discussion below it *SUGGESTS* he has added a successful x2 link. I would expect a HD4870 to give better performance than the GTX260 since ATI have made more inroads at minimising pci-e traffic requirements. This is reflected in darnok44's RE5 pci-e scaling analysis results below:

2009/8/16
Today, bought Nvidia GTX260 VGA card for test.

PE4L with PE3N or EC2C test PASS with Nvidia GTX260 on my DELL_M1330. Please check attached file for Evil5 test result (average 53.3fps, so so >~~< ). Anyway better then internal nvidia8400M (average 8.1fps)

Please check attached file.

PE4L have a small problem, PCBA too HOT!!, I will add heat sink for mass production. PE4L product should sale when I got the heat sink from vendor.

I will write down install procedure tomorrow.

By the way, PE4H support all your request. engineering sample schedule may 8/31

PE4H Support x2 link PCIe cable from expresscard and mPCIe slot.

​

hwtools pci-e scaling analysis using PM3C/PE4H/PE4L product

System	Graphics using PE4H/PE4L/PM3C	RE5 benchmark 1280x800 32-bit
Dell M1330 T7500-2.2	GTX260 x2 1.0 (?) HD4670 x1 1.0 Onboard 8400M GS	53.3 (1280x1024!!) 25.4 9.7

Source: combined RE5 results from progress link.

darknok44's RE5 pci-e scaling analysis

</tter>

Game	Resolution	Video card	x16 2.0	x1 2.0 (x2 1.0)*	x1 1.0
Resident Evil 5	1280x800	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	71.6 84.6	57.0(-20.4%) 72.7(-14.1%)	34.0(-52.5%) 33.8(-60.0%)
	1680x1050	HD3850-256MB HD4870-1GB	53.0 78.5	43.1(-18.7%) 61.3(-21.8%)	28.1(-47.0%) 30.9(-60.6%)

Confirmation. I have just sent an email requesting GPU-Z screenshot confirmation of X2 1.0 link mode. If so, then the DIY ViDock has surpassed the ViDock 2's performance at a far lower pricepoint. In any case. X2 1.0 mode means can consider Nvidia cards too Win Win

 

The green LED is on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O Ill take a look to the PE2L!.

 

^^^
oooh, good, maybe there's still hope!

...not saying its good you got a faulty card, but good thing we figured out the problem (hopefully).


edit: ooh, good update! but, man, that long for the PE4H?

 

yeah. i guess its for good reasons.
...i just kinda had a deadline... :/

Is there any way we could get them sooner? as insiders to thier products?

 

Are you sure the powersupply is good ? You use 3.3V from your laptop , maybe it's not powerfull enough.

I'd get a atx extension , remove the plug and solder the 3.3V and 12V lines to the correct pins on the PCB.

http://pinouts.ru/Slots/pci_express_pinout.shtml

Get a molex-> pci-e 6pin so yr sure the card gets the correct voltages on the correct pints.

edit : seems i was wrong, you supply 3.3V external. But you still have no 12V on the pci-e connector. Providing 12V on the pci-e connecter seems a good idea ! Those cards probably need it.

 

Is there any chance once Gerry has completed his work he will produce a Vidock type product for less technical savvy people which is already built and ready to go?

 

What changed to get the PE2L's green LED switched on? Did you change jumper 1 (JP1) which controls how 3.3V is supplied to the pci-e slot?

A Box Solution

The PE4H is a great foundation to build upon around. This will differ depending on the graphics you wish to run. HD4670 users only need an external 10V-32V 5A (50W or more) notebook AC adapter to drive it as there is voltage regulation built on the PE4H. More powerful GPUs will need a proper PSU to drive them so may need to be boxed. I personally like how hwtools are selling the core components. The NBR community can come up with a few different ways this could be housed, perhaps even making kits available. The inputs/outputs we'd need to configure are:

Inputs
- power: PSU (pci-e, molex power) or 12V DC Jack
- expressport/mini pci-e: HDMI cable for x1 or x2 input
- USB: USB devices can be connected to USB plug

Outputs
- output: HDMI/VGA/DVI for LCD or monitor

 

Good news to hear
I guess waiting wont kill me, now we are going to get a BETTER solution. I have to admit that I felt a little bit sad because of trying x2 on nVidia card first. I am wondering if Gary could go and try it back with ATI cards as it may have a better result than nVidia (could help into figuring the best brand for this)

By the way, there are few things that aren't clear to me which prevents me from doing more accurate comparison. First, by telling us the graphic card name its really no enough as there many cards with the same name but with different speed/ram , etc ... You might get what I mean by visiting newegg and compare few cards to each others ( hxxp://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=260+gtx )
The second part which confuse me, Gary didn't mention his RE5 benchmark settings (so, can someone tell us his settings?)

Edit:
Noticed I need to spread rep before given it again *Self note*

 

@nando, Nope I mean look at the pictures you uploaded, the green led is on, maybe Ill send a mail to hwtools for more information.

I also forgot to mention this:

I was messing around with the hardware info, and I discovered that the ubication of my HD4850 was Bus PCI 4, dispositivo 0, función 0.

That means that my laptop has at least 4 PCI buses :O.

I use an external 12V 5A power supply (look at the power spcecifications of the PE2L, also it fits perfectly). Also I use a PC PSU of 400W.
But thaks for the help!!!! I really need to fully use it.

 

I am building a box for it.

I will post some pictures of it when it is done. And my schematics/blueprints that I made. Of course, some measurments will change with what graphics card and PSU you have. \
...So far its coming out good. Almost done, too bad i wont be able to use until September.

 

Nando4 and ahl395 you have excellent news. I have just one final question. Will a the DIY boxed vidock be at all capable of driving the laptop LCD either now or in the future? Or is other hardware development needed?

 

This is really the most difficult question to answer at this point.
The way I see of using laptop's LCD will be by modding your laptop. (Remember your LCD screen is connected to your motherboard ,so you will need to mod it by using something like LCD controller/ LCD panel.
you can check those two websites for more info: hxxp://www.geocities.com/p9019/lcdpanel & hxxp://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/98801

Anyway there more ways in hardware part ,but the most logical way is in letting the OS doing it for you which might be done through writing/modifying the driver of your external GFX card and the internal one where It should send the graphics to process to the external (By using minipcie / expresscard) and obtaining the results and show it on the internal GFX card. Anther way to describe this idea is by telling you it is more like a movie that you play it through your computer,but a real time movie.

Edit:

For those who want to go even further in modifying their laptops lcd you check all of these:
Please notice that all of these solution are for giving ideas and may not be right (more theoretical than reality)

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/dvi_03cg_60


(You click the picture)
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/ad7dlv
http://store.mo-co-so.com/jetwaydviandlvdsdaughterboard-p-118.html

All of the above are meant to: change laptops lvds into something you can use with desktop graphic-card (These are the main parts + cables and stuff I didn't give link to them because they are easy to figure it out)

The more practical solution as I can tell is what are in the 2nd picture where you will link your laptop screen into that and that will makes your lcd screen accepts signals from dvi. So now if you linked that to graphics card (from your PC , vidock , etc) it will work!
Ok now for portability as most laptops have VGA as an output so again you will need to convert dvi-to-vga and link that to the dvi-lvds converter you used which in anther word, you turned your laptops screen as an external screen but it still a once peace within your laptop

Edit2: I forget to mention about using switches (Will makes your laptops screen as it is with the possibility of using an external graphics card)

 

There's three ways I can think of approaching such an idea:

1/ USB external vga adapter. takes the VGA signals, passes them across USB, then has some sort of driver to display them on your LCD. Would be OK for desktop applications. For gaming? Consider 1280x1024 at 30FPS = 39MB/s of data transfer. USB 2.0's 480Gbps suggests 60MB/s, but real world performance data suggests more in the 30-40MB/s range. Factor in processing required between the VGA card, across the USB port to the LCD and you'd have laggy display. It also adds traffic to the pci-e bus. Would be OK for applications, but I wouldn't need a ViDock for that.

2/ Closer to the truth - tap the LVDS lines running into the LCD and run signals directly into the LCD from the desktop video card. This would require a notebook internal surgery to attach (i). Also needs more hardware for (ii)

(i) Would require some sort of double adapter/switch to allow either the notebook video in or an external video in. I don't believe they exist as yet.

(ii) Would need to *CONVERT* the DVI output from the desktop video card to LVDS input for the LCD. There's boxes around to do that. The *only* video cards that do LVDS out as standard are MXM ones, which are expensive and would require then further adaptation to run them as external units. I guess it we demanded it, perhaps desktop video cards can start adding a LVDS output port?

3/ Forget ViDock and jump on the DIY External MXM extension. The latter requiring a notebook with a MXM port and would be perhaps a better overall solution. The MXM port has LVDS input lines running to the LCD.

Personally I'd be happy with DIY ViDock's x1 1.0 (or better yet x2 1.0) to an external LCD as it's a cost effective way to see gaming on a X3100 equipped system never considered for such purposes. No need to replace my system with an MXM one, or start hacking it's internals either.

 

Frx,
While rewriting video drivers is certainly possible it is only feasable at x8-x16 speeds due to the fact that single channel DVI output is pretty close to x1 2.0 capacity. In fact, this is what has been done with XGP drivers as XGP connectors do not have any video output wires in them(initially xgp didn't support laptop lcd output).

Devices that take video feed through all possible computer ports (other than video ports) are called "Frame Grabbers" and they are gradually hitting ExpressCard scene.
As seen from Frame Grabber experience - any compression introduced into the picture results in unacceptable usability delays for certain intensive applications.

King of Interns,
As you can already figure out from my reply to Frx - it is very unlikely for Vidock type devices to have usable laptop lcd functionality primarily due to bus speed limitations.

I am pretty sure Frame Grabber setups won't work as you'd need to use both internal and external video cards to redirect the feed which could be done with "the right drivers" but those drivers will never come with any Frame Grabber.

MXM project: I should be able to start working on it in around 3-4 weeks as the equipment and skilled hands become more accessible to me.
VillageTronic has entered a funny hibernation state with their facebook wall...
Gerry is a much more likely figure to produce a commercial product. Time will reveal.

 

Toshiki, it looks like that either you misunderstand me or I didn't express it (I am sorry if that's the case.) Well let me explain it a little bit better, I wasn't talking about Frame Grabber (The way you play your ps2 with your laptop screen through USB or recording from satellite , etc ...) I was talking about writing a driver to make an integrated GFX card talk directly to the other card.

Anyway the real thing that I was pointing out about what converting the laptop lcd into DVI/VGA so you can use it directly with any desktop graphics card.