Let's figure out how to make a DIY eGPU (previously DIY ViDock)

Right i did what u suggested and this is what i got.

It says i got 6 ports. 3 of it is currently being used and one of it is for the express card i suppose and the other one is for the extra mini pcie slot so can anyone explain what the extra one port is for?

 

I only see 5 ports:
port1, port2, port3, port5, port6.
where is port 4?

 

physical versus logical ICH8/ICH9M pci-e port1-port4

THe ICH8/ICH9M allows the physical pci-e port1-port4 to be a trunked x2 (port1 and port2) or x4 port (port1-port4). It also allows them to be assigned logical function D28:Fx numbers which the bios would do. I believe Windows uses the logical naming. So be 100% certain if you can trunk the lines to get a x2 port, disable the physical ports to identify what external port is port1 and port2 using baredit to switch off the port and see what stops working as explained here.

 

Thanks.
Actually im probably gonna paint it bright RED. So itll look sweet.


...Also, in device manager, i onyl have ports 1,2, and 6.

 

bump ! i want results

 

WOW, what a thread! Great work. Unbelievable. Maybe you guys have found a solution to my problem. With all the workarounds in this thread, I hope my question is on topic.

I planned on buying a Clevo D900F/Sager 9280. I don't really game and need the i7 for video/chemical modeling work and don't have room for a good desktop since I RV in the winter. For photo work I want to drive my external monitor (30" NEC) at its native resolution of 2560x1600 which requires dual-link DVI. But the D900Fs evidently don't support dual link DVI.

From a Tom's hardware review of the Eurocom version:

"It seems that dual-link capability was broken in the D900F Panther at the time of our test, limiting its DVI output to 1280x800 on our 30” Dell monitor. The blame game went in circles: Eurocom originally thought it was a firmware issue, while Nvidia blamed a manufacturing issue on Clevo's end. The two “links” of the GTX 280M’s secondary display output are split between single-link DVI and HDMI connections, and enabling dual-link requires disabling HDMI. As reported by both Nvidia and Eurocom, the graphics module isn’t automatically switching between HDMI and dual-link DVI mode. There hasn’t been any agreement over whether the problem is hardware or firmware."

Six out of seven vendors say 'order it and if it doesn't work, return it' but I'd rather not do that unless there is some hope. So, finally (sorry for the length) my questions, are the PE4's or one of the other Hwtools interfaces, or the MXM project a possible solution and how well would they be able to drive the monitor since I don't think I need high frame rates for my application.

Any help would be greatly appreciated even if it's just to point me in another direction.

 

they will drive it very well, check this post for an idea of how well:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5208353&postcount=341

The problem for you would be that it's not guaranteed to work.
why?
Because there may be bios whitelisting or your system may not be able to alocate the resorces for the PCI device.

It's a gamble.

 

Thanks Moral. I think I'll order the notebook since the PE4's give me one more chance of using my external monitor. I'm just concerned that it may be whitelisted since I've heard that the Clevo Bios are fairly limited. Also, it has an Nvidia video card so it looks like I'll have to try Windows 7. Thanks again!

 

Im suprised to see no PE4L or PE4H Listing on thier site still. With only four days until release (WE HOPE)... why not?

...i wonder if itll really be available when they say this time...

 

I hope someone would write a easy to follow guide for the DIY project once the hwtool has them on sale.

 

A wiki is being built for this project so hopefully one will be written up for it, if not I don't doubt there won't be one written up judging by the large amount of information accessible now.


On another note: I'm currently designing the logo for the DIY ViDock but it needs a name! So feel free to drop a message here with any ideas you guys may have

This is what I have so far, for contribution sake and remember your ideas are much appreciated.

 

Hey Guys,

I have been following this thread and it's facinating. I have been looking for a product like this for years now! My little IBM laptop just stalls out when I try to use it with any type of CAD system, so any other video card is a big improvement.

So, if I understand correctly, currently the PE4 will run at 1X speed because it uses express port 1.1. So it down converts the 16X connection to 1X speed. Now, when express card version 2.0 comes out, will I be able to simply plug in a new express card 2.0 and achieve higher speeds with the PE4 adapter, OR do I need a laptop with an express port 2.0 hardware as well?

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.

As far as I know you will need new hardware to get the full benefit of Expresscard 2.0. I've got a link to a discussion on Facebook with the creator of the ViDock which might interest you: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=89321949134&topic=10692&ref=mf

 

The PE4H converts a X16 into Expresscard, which is connected by X1. Although, it should have the solder points to make another connection to the card, doing an X2 Connection. Which is a big performance increase. This would be by connecting the PE4H's Expresscard, and connecting it to a Mini-PCIe port as well, and soldering that onto the PE4H's circuit board. The only cable you can find to do this right now is $100. Although, HWTools plans to make a much cheaper one in the future.

So far, AFAIK we have requested that the PE4H use Expresscard 2.0, so we could use it at 2.0 when it comes in laptops. But, i do not think this request has been answered with a yes or no.

Please correct me if im wrong on any of the information above.

 

So Im new to this thread and project and its gotten so technical that I can't follow anymore

Looks like a great project though
Can someone please answer some simple questions

Im not a GPU expert but please try to simplify things a little for me if you can so that I can replicate the card and play some games.

What is the most powerful GPU you guys have running on a 13" system.
What is the highest GPU that you guys think can run on a 13" system
What does the 13" system or any system lower than 13" have to have in order to run the card?
Can anyone draw a simple diagram so that we can replicate the system.

Thanks to everyone.
You guys have done a great job.

 

Would it be possible to connect the output from external video card to some device, which in turn will connect to laptop's USB port like a TV tuner, so there will be no need for an external monitor?

 

The size of the laptop does not matter.
Since this is External, you can put any graphics card you want in it. Although, for now, ATI is your best route. Because its better through the Expresscard Connection than nVidia.

...So the best card you could put in is a Radeon 4890.
The only requirement is either an Expresscard Slot or a Mini-PCIe Port (Internal). As well as no BIOS Whitelisting. A google search should tell you if your specific laptop does, or not.

Yes. You could use a TV Tuner. Although, you will most likely loose response time/FPS, as most people say that gaming through a TV Tuner is usually choppy. But wait for more responses on that.



Aside from the above....
I have some bad news, for me. As in i might not be able to use the DIY Vidock. The dv6500 (which i plan to use it on), has BIOS Whitelisting on the Mini-PCIe Port. Now, would that also include the Expresscard? Since they are both connected via pcie?
...This could ruin everything for me... :/
Anyone have any ideas?!?!? It does seem i could possibly edit the BIOS to stop the whitelisting... if it IS on the Expressport. If it isnt, and somebody can tell me thiss, that would be great, although i wouldtnt be ablt to do a X2 connection in the future

See these pages where it talks about whitlisting and how to possibly get around it. Anyone have any comments, suggestions, tips?
(a couple posts down is where it talks about editing BIOS) http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31474
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97480
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=862043

 

HP Whitelisting

I don't believe HP are doing whitelisting on the expressport as then you couldn't use other vendor tv tuner or e-sata cards. Appears to be mini pci-e ports only.

HP business systems like 6710b has the expressport is port3. A x2 1.0 link requires port1 and port2. Now I can't be 100% sure that it still won't do a x2 1.0 link as *maybe* the x4 1.0 link (port1-port4) can work in a x2 1.0 mode? Some PCI-E cards can handle lane reversal which would be needed. I guess we'll find out.

Then comes your second problem. I can confirm on my 2510P has whitelisting. Bios is encrypted so it's not an easy task to try to edit it's whitelist. There seems to be two types of whitelisting that I've read about on forums:

1/ whitelisting that suspends bios bootup "unsupported card detected..."
Workaround: boot without PM3N installed, then suspend/resume system with PM3N installed

2/ whitelisting that proceeds with bios bootup but effectively locks out the port. It's as if it's been electrically disconnected.
Workaround: boot with supplied wifi card installed, then suspend/resume with PM3N installed. (HP 2510P has this - how I can get a non HP wifi card to work!)

I've added a suggestion for a mini pci-e to external mini pci-e adapter as item 14 to specifications link to try to workaround (2) as it's quite inconvenient to plug/replug device in this way.

Worst case scenario? A x1 1.0 link via expressport for you.

HP did not disclose the whitelisting on the mini pci-e port

I am annoyed at HP for whitelisting in the first place. There was no advertising to disclose they are doing that nor is it reasonable to expect customers to know such activity occurs and to look for unwhitelisted notebooks instead. I would expect a mini pci-e card to work per PCI-SIG specifications allowing HP or other vendor mini pci-e cards to work. Quite nasty vendor centric interests at play to get you to buy their mini pci-e cards only. On some forums it's been discovered that users tried to mix HP wifi cards from other systems in their own and find they too don't work either.

If you review the advertising documentation and find this to be true, perhaps we can start a petition to have HP unwhitelist their systems with update bios? This may go along the same lines as the Lenovo ppl are doing to get SATA-II on their capped X61/R61/T61 systems as shown here which appears to be heading to a class-action law suit as Lenovo are showing no interest in correcting the issue. Why would they? Means users need to $upgrade$ to newer T400/T500 systems to get full SSD speed.

 

OK. so i should be safe....

Actually, yeah. Ive tried taking my HP dv9700t's 4965 and putting it in a dv9500z and it didnt work. Maybe because ones Intel and one AMD? Other than that their essentially the same. And the 9500z's Wifi card didnt work in mine either

But if there are workaroudns anyway, i could possibly do a X2 connection later on.

Thanks very much.

 

Can someone tell me if the Asus N81-vp-d1 is whitelisting?
And if it is then if I could still use the Asus Radeon HD 4890 on it?

Thanks

 

Well, i didnt find anything about the N81 or N80 having whitelisting. But neither did i find anything saying it didnt. But Asus doesnt seem like a brand who would whitelist anything.

if it is whitelisted, hopefully you have expresscard, or could try a way around it mentioned above.

 

Try suspending the system, swap wifi cards, resume, scan for new hardware and see if it detects it.

 

I will, next time i get the chance. The 9500z isnt mine, so next time i see the person with it, ill try it.

But wouldnt that mean, if you restarted, the problem would still persist?

 

Yes - problem would persist. It's a way to get around the bios whitelisting. Only way to get a clean restart would be to mod the bios. I believe DV6 uses phoenix bios so might be easier than the HP Business notebooks. See mydigitallife forum. Though modding the bios is still questionable as I believe PM3N uses only 19 pins as it's a 19pin HDMI cable and there's a pin20 that is used for wifi only (wireless detect). So if bios checks that too could still be a problem unless a pinmod was applied to PM3N to make it look like a wifi card.

Anyway.. you have the expressport electrically have connectivity for x1 1.0 mode. Other hurdle is the resource allocation that ViDock folks discovered. We'll need to develop a compatability/workaround list as the vendors have put obstacles in the way. Just need PM3N/PE4H to be released

Not sure. Though Asus/MSI/Dell don't seem to be doing whitelisting. It's HP and Lenovo that like to do these sort of restrictions.

Would be very interesting to compare performance of HD4890 at x1 1.0 versus the onboard HD4650 . At x2 1.0 speed [combining mini pci-e and expressport] I'd say the HD4890 would be faster. At x1 1.0 speed the onboard mobile HD4650 is probably faster.

 

Do you think in their list of incompatible systems they tested each laptop with all of 3 OS'es: windows XP AND Vista AND 7? I have an inspiron 6400\1505 and their list says vidock's incompatible with XP, so I'm wondering will it work in windows 7.

Dell INSPIRON E1505 XP Intel945GM up to date on Jan-30-2009 Resource allocation; (RAM: 2GB)

 

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while, and I'd like to post up my own anecdotal results and findings.

Firstly, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and made this idea reality. It is a really cool project, and very useful to me.

Secondly, my situation and aims are different from the usual. I'm not doing this for gaming - I'm doing this because I want to get multiple monitors running on my Dell 640m laptop (which only has intel integrated graphics and a single VGA port, but it does have an Expresscard slot). Furthermore, I run Ubuntu linux (version 8.04 for the curious), not Windows.

Hence, I think my experience is a useful data point that others might like to know about.

For my needs, I didn't want a high-powered external graphics card. An ATI HD 4550 was easily sufficient, even preferable, because I can power it from a normal desktop 12V 2.5A power supply. Plus, the one I got was fanless.

I purchased the PE2L from HWTools about a week ago, connected it all up. The hardware seemed fine ... except I ran into PCI resource allocation issues. Turns out my laptop BIOS is a bit dumb and allocated a 2M memory window to my Expresscard port whereas the HD 4550 needed 256M. Can't fit 256M into 2M.

I booted my (dual boot) laptop into Windows XP, and confirmed that Windows also reported allocation issues with the card (but it did at least recognise the card).

I switched back to Ubuntu, and after a lot of research and low level hacking, I trial-ed a bleeding edge kernel which was able to reallocate my Expresscard slot to a different memory address which had enough space to accommodate 256M.

(See http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2009-08/msg11049.html or http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0908.3/01808.html for the details - warning: highly technical linux information)

Once I had this in place, the HD 4550 no longer had PCI resource allocation issues, and everything else onwards has pretty much worked as expected ie. I can hook up an external monitor to the card and the monitor works. Success!

My findings ... the PE2L hardware works. As far as the computer can tell, the graphics card is inserted into an PCIe 1x port, without caring whether it's an internal or external port.

However, if your laptop has a crappy BIOS (like mine), you may have allocation isues. This is not a fault of the PE2L hardware. It is the fault of your BIOS and/or your OS.

If you have allocation issues, Windows XP won't fix it. However, apparently (according to Village Tronic), Windows 7 can. I guess ... please be aware of this before going out and purchasing stuff to build this thing.

Anyway, my experience has been good. I'm quite excited with what the PE2L can do. Once I finish my testing and/or if I get three monitors connected to my laptop, I'll post some photos.

Thank you all for this cool and really useful idea.

 

Easily drive off a standard 60W notebook adapter. Though would need voltage regulation for 12V if it's less or more, eg: 16.5V/19V. Circuit with $5 of parts to do voltage regulation is on first post of this thread.

It's definitely an enthusiasts solution prepared to do a bit of work if encounter resistence. Interested parties should be aware of:

• bios imposed whitelisting (PM3N/mini pci-e product)
• bios imposed Windows pci-e resource allocation issues as described above

Worthwhile negotiating a money back guarantee before investing big $$$ into fast video cards.

google also tells me that ACPI needs to be disabled on XP to give more control over resource allocation in XP. Hmm.. This pci-e memory window issue as described above can be resolved by writing a grub2 module *IF* your vendor hasn't locked down the D_LCK bit in bios (D_LCK=0 is desirable). Leaving it unlockd is a security hole, ppl can write keylogger background code so I predict many newer bioses have this locked down. See remapping pci-e resources here. Code provided to reclaim more of your RAM for use in < 4GB memory space for 32-bit OS. Right: D_LCK bit to check using baredit if wanting to write a grub2 module to remap pci-e resources

Once PM3N/PE4H are released we'll be able to compile a list of issues/compatible systems.

 

Not sure. Though Asus/MSI/Dell don't seem to be doing whitelisting. It's HP and Lenovo that like to do these sort of restrictions.

Would be very interesting to compare performance of HD4890 at x1 1.0 versus the onboard HD4650 . At x2 1.0 speed [combining mini pci-e and expressport] I'd say the HD4890 would be faster. At x1 1.0 speed the onboard mobile HD4650 is probably faster.[/QUOTE]



So anyone

1.No one has tried doing the HD4890 at x1 1.0 on an Asus N81-vp-d1?
2. Why do you think the HD 4650 is probably faster than the HD4890 if the HD4890 is the better GPU?
3. Does the Asus N81-vp-d1 have a mini pci-e and expressport to try x2 1.0 speed?

Thanks to everyone lets try this

 

Can someone tell me if this is possible and how I could possibly make this work

Running a HD4890 At x2 1.0 speed [combining mini pci-e and expressport]

on an Asus N81-vp-d1?

Thanks

 

If one buys a video card that doesn't have a power connector on it like 4550 one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819 it won't have enough power to run? If it will run, can it fry the express card slot if it draws too much power? No need for a PSU would reduce the mess

 

1. No. At least not yet. Sorry.
2. If the 4650 is connected at X2 it could be faster than a 4890 at X1 is what he said. If you actually wanted to make sure, you could look at FPS benchmarks of both cards, and then take off 40-60% to represent X1. And then 20-30% for X2. Then compare the FPS between the two. And that will actually tell you which is better.
3. Yes. You have both Expresscard (Bottom Left Side) and Mini-PCI-E 9which is internal where your Wireless card plugs into)

...Ill figure out the exact fps and all that to make sure 4890 X1 vs. 4650 X2 if i can for you.

Yes. It should work.
To do this, you will have to buy the upcoming PE4H. This connects the GPU to the Expresscard. And it has the solder points to add another X1 PCIe Link.
...Now for the Mini-PCIe link, you will either need to wait until HWtools Releases thier adapter to do this, or buy the ~$100 one thats available now on the front page.

No, the expresscard port cannot power any card. You need something to power the adapter. this can either be a psu. or with some of hwtools adapters, you could just use a dc apapter. or nando4 has explained how to mAake something to power it with a voltage regulator and stuff, on the front page.



otherwise...
i think i might want to buy a cheap card first and try it with my laptop... i dont want to spend 150 bucks on a 4870 i cant use or return (newegg )
anyone know where i can get a cheap and RETURN FOR REFUND graphics card thats pci-e x16? that i could test first with the pe4h thanks

 

So let me get this straight

1. In order for the HD4890 card to work At x2 1.0 speed it must be connected to a PE4H and Mini-PCIe link at the same time correct? Or is the card connected to one or the other? any pictures where I can see this?

2. The HD4890 at x2 1.0 speed card sould be better than the current ATI Radeon HD 4650 that is on board correct? comparison between the two fbs rate?

 

So the video card without a power connector will draw power from the PE2\PE4 adapter, which will have a 12V power source? As opposed to the card that has a power connector and will get power from the psu that's connected to it. Sorry if this may be too obvious, I just want to make sure and don't want to have 2 power units(1 for the adapter, 2nd one for the card).. presumably i'll reuse the power unit from an old laptop instead of the bulky desktop psu

You could go to best buy if there's one nearby you and see what cards they have there. Probably they'll be at rip off prices. IF I remember right, you have 15 days to return the item for a refund, ask them to be sure.

 

Guys, you need a separate power supply for your external graphics card+adapter somehow. The Expresscard port won't do it. I think I read somewhere Expresscard is only supposed to supply 3.3V 1.3A or something like that. That's less than 5 watts.

I'm running a HD4550, and with it inserted into my Expresscard port but with the external 12V power supply not turned on, my laptop just does not see the HD4550.

EDIT: Oops, I misread the previous post

I don't know if you need to have a power supply to your graphics card if you already have a 12V supply to the adapter. However, PCIe is only supposed to supply 75W per slot.

 

Hmm... I was hoping for return/refundable...

But that is a fantastic price. Probably my best bet.

1. For an X1 Link, the Card is plugged into the PE4H, and the PE4H is connected to the laptops Expresscard Slot.
For an X2 Link, you do the same as above. But you add a Mini-PCIe connection/cable. Which that cable connects to the PE4H. Giving the PE4H (and GPU) TWO X1 Connections, combining and totaling to an X2 Connection.

2. I would think so, yes. Tomorrow Ill post a direct comparison between the two.

Hmm... Im a bit confused. But ill answer the best i can.

Regardless of if the Graphics card needs EXTRA PCIe Power Connectors...
The PE4H Needs an EXTERNAL power source. The Expressport does not count as one. SInce it cannot supply any mentionable power. Things to power it would be a Power Supply, or the Custom DC Adapter on the front page.

 

Ok I think I understand a little better now

1.So are you telling me that when the PE4H comes out I will have to solder another X1 PCIe Link?

2.Or will it already come soldered ready as an X2 Link?

3. When is the PE4H coming out and where can I buy it?

4.When is the Mini-PCIe link coming out and where can I buy it?

 

Ok, I understand that the adapter needs external power already and there's no power thru express port. Now, what I'm asking is will a low-end video card that doesn't have an additional 6-pin power connector draw enough power from the adapter, which has a psu connected, or won't work at all?

 

Yes. For X2. You will need to solder another Connection to the PE4H. and This would be the cable to the Mini-PCIe Slot.

The PE4H is supposed to come out tomorrow. Although its still not listed on thier site, and has already delayed it two or three times. So, that is yet to be seen. :/
And it will be available to buy HERE.

Also. Ive done the comparisons. An X1 4890 is better than an X16 4650. Not by a huge amount. But it is better. So, an X2 4890 would be even better.

You can get the Mini-PCIe cable now for $100, and it is on the front page.
...Or you could wait a little while, and HwTools will be releasing the same thing for much cheaper. Im not sure the ETA for this though. Maybe a month? not sure.

Yes. If the card does not require and extra PCIe Power Connectors, it will take all the power it needs from the PE4H's PCIe Port, as it would on a regular PCIe port.

 

1.Is this the Mini-PCIe cable on the front page that you are talking about that I will have to solder to the PE4H?

$100US PEMINI2X1-F PCI Express Mini to PCI Express X1 + (optional) $24US PCI-e 1x bus to 16x Socket Extension Card




Because this would be a better connection I think






2. Wouldn't it be simpler to just connect the card to a USB 2.0 or Firewire instead?
3. Is an x1 connection faster than a USB 2.0 connection
4 Is an x2 connection the fastest possible connection you can currently get to the GPU?

 

Yes, that would be it.

That picture is of the PE2L. This connects a Graphics card to a Mini-PCIe ONLY. So, with this you are definetly stuck at X1. because theres nowhere to solder on an Expresscard connection. That is one reason why the PE4H is better and worth waiting for.

No. USB and Firewire do not have enough bandwith to support a graphics card. Nothing compared to X1 PCIe

At this time, it is only possible to get a X2 Connection.
When Expresscard 2.0 comes out though, we should be able to get a faster connection. Because it will be connected internally in an X2 port instead of an X1. So, we'll be able to get X2, just by using the Expressport. And then i guess you will be able to add the Mini-PCIe and get an "X3" connection speed.
Please correct me if im wrong, but AFAIK, this is how it works.

 

There's a huge difference in bandwidth, USB 2.0 is only 480MBPS and firewire 800 is pretty rare to find.

 

any word on a possible 4x method. Can't wait for the PE4H release. =)

 

Not yet, that I know of.
...Maybe if your laptop has two Mini-PCIe's? But im not sure how or if you'd be able to connect two onto the PE4H.


Well, the PE4H SHOULD be available TODAY.... well.... we'll see.

@Nando4, any word from Hwtools? Its not delayed again right?

 

I'm glad to see this project is still alive

I got really busy and disappeared for a while, but I'm still around...

nando I had tried the tool you asked me to use way back in this thread, to determine the port 0/ port 1 thing on my x200. I was never able to get the software to run though - i think maybe because i'm using windows 7... sorry for not getting back to you on that!

 

Well.... Yet again.... The PE4H is delayed. :'(

 

With X2 bandwidth this PE4H offers, what is the fastest card you could use in this thing without there being a bottleneck, such as a GTX 285's speed would be wasted.

For internal mobile GPUs, like a 9800M GTX, what is their bandwidth, is it X16 like on desktops or not?

I am surprised that there doesn't seem to be an internal nor external PCI-Express connection to a laptop equaling X16 whereas desktops have had it for quite a while now. What a shame.

 

I've read the whole thread yesterday,and registered to the forum just to try and participate.When i discovered the thread i couldn't believe it was possible but....
Anyway, i didn't get it,why is there a problem with Lenovo and HP laptops? Does it happen on all of them?

 

What are the "DN" and "DP" wires on the diagram(CN2)?
Are they the reserved Rx pair for second lane?

In any case with the way the x16 slot is wired it's not possible to get x3 even if x2 is coming from expresscard and x1 from mPCI-E.

 

It's possible, alright

I've done it, although mine is a limited scenario compared to what some others are trying to achieve here.

I'm not sure of the specifics, but apparently some laptop BIOS's (Lenovo, HP?) check there isn't a foreign MiniPCIe in the laptop at boot. If there is such an unknown card, it refuses to boot. You'd have to read the previous pages to get the specifics.

Note, this 'whitelisting' only affects the PCIe-to-MiniPCI adapter, not the PCIe-to-Expresscard adapter.

 

I was wondering as mentioned by Rahul if there are any more benchmark for a high end graphic card such as ati 4980 or nvidia 285 gtx for the 2x connection to see how much of a drop in performance is there. I would be nice if there is test done with 3d mark 06 or graphic intensif games such as crysis to see how much of a drop in performance is there is. if it is about 20% or less then i think i would be still a good option.