Sonnet Thunderbolt/Expresscard adapter paired with Vidock and 2011 Macbook Pro

Gaming Performance

This is what this whole setup really boils down to. Does it give users enough of a boost to be worth the money?
3dmark06 score with the gtx 560 1gb. My laptop without the egpu scores ~4k
I tested 3dmark06, but could not test Vantage2011 because when it got to CPU tests, my computer wouldn’t allow it to continue because it might cause damage.

The games I tested were Minecraft, Metro 2033, Rage, Skyrim, Far Cry 2, and Battlefield 3

The first game I tested is the legendary graphics intensive monster, Minecraft.

I would like to point out that while in bootcamp Windows 7 64bit, minecraft couldn't even be played on its lowest settings. It was odd, since it should have given me better performance compared to mac os x. With the gtx 560, all this trouble disappeared. On max settings on single player, I was between 80-100 fps. On multiplayer, it stayed at around 70 fps. While looking at the sky, I hit 600fps, which was pretty awesome. So I give this game a green light with the egpu.

Metro 2033

On very high settings on dx11, 1600x1024, and antialiasing and texture filtering on x4, it ran with micro stutters from time to time and frame rate drops during fights. When I changed the settings to high and kept everything else untouched, fighting was much smoother and still looked great. For a game on dx11 and known for its graphics, my setup played it much better than expected.

Far Cry 2

On max settings, dx10, 1920x1080, antialiasing x4, everything ran perfectly. Even during combat I encountered no stutters. I felt that while in the car driving there were a few small stutters, but everything felt like it was over 40 fps.

Skyrim

On ultra settings with antialiasing at x4 and full 1080p, there were micro stutters. Some places were worse than others, but the game wasn’t silky smooth. On high settings it was better, but still suffered from micro stutters. Combat was still playable for me, and the game looked way too good to worry about small stutters. I later installed some high definition water and more detailed cities mods, but those seemed to take a toll on the game. I did try these mods on ultra, so bumping it down to high would probably make it playable for the majority. Once again, I give this game a green light, but not as smooth compared to the other games.

Update: I installed the new NVidia drivers, called 295.73. On their site, Skyrim gameplay was said to improve by up to 45% on Ultra settings. So I installed the drivers and opened up Skyrim with EVERYTHING maxed out. The game was about on par compared to ultra settings with antialiasing at x4, so there was definitely a boost in performance. When I changed the settings to high, gameplay was much smoother. So the game changes from a borderline green in terms of performance to a playable game on high settings at 1080p.

Rage

This game didn't do so well. My settings were fairly high, but I noticed screen tearing and lag. The game looked great, but didn't perform as well as I would've hoped. Definitely seemed like a decent CPU is needed to play this game, which is what I don't have.
Rage settings. 1600x1050 resolution, vsync off, texture cache small, texture detail off, anisotropic filter low, gpu transcode disabled

Battlefield 3

Last but not least, the Juggernaut Battlefield 3. This was played after installing NVidia’s newest drivers, 295.73. They said to improve gameplay and fix lag issues in BF3, but my setup was feeling the heat. On everything maxed out on multiplayer, it was unplayable at some points. At 1440x900 with settings on high and antialiasing on x8 instead of x16, I was able to get 56 kills in a match while using the SVD (first semi-auto sniper) in a 48-player game on Operation Metro. Sadly I was not able to do much altering on the settings, because I had the Russian version of Battlefield 3 (Google translate helped a bit) but if I wanted some consistency with FPS, the settings would probably have to be lowered a bit. This game does require a high end CPU (which I don’t have) but it was playable while looking great.

 

Very interesting - thanks for sharing your detailed results with us!

Can you clarify what your 3dmark06 score was with the egpu?

Also, is it possible to post your frame rates for Metro2033, Skyrim, RAGE, BF3 both with the egpu and without?

 

36mark06 score was 14639. Im currently on vacation but will be back later this week, will post frame rates when I can.

 

The Sonnet Thunderbolt to expresscard adapter is the key piece of hardware, can use a DIY eGPU instead of the ViDock4+

The DIY eGPU components (PE4L/PE4H + PSU) can be used in place of the ViDock4+ if you want to save yourself > ~$200. Moreso if can get it s/h off ebay. No enclosure though. There is extensive discussion of DIY eGPU hardware and it's use in http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html .

The key component in this hardware implementation is the Sonnet Thunderbolt to expresscard adapter. Strange they've got that going,which would need to do TB to pci-e mux/demuxing, but haven't released their full x4 2.0 Express enclosure. A Thunderbolt eGPU enclosure is a gaming changing piece of hardware. Maybe Intel+Apple realize this and are holding back TB x4 2.0 chips to third-party vendors?

 

nando4,

Yes, I'm amazed that they bottlenecked the adapter (especially at that price). The good news being that because it is only the adapter, buying a later version that is a full x4 2.0 will mean minor changes to the setup.

So people would be able to purchase a Vidock or diy egpu with this adapter for a huge boost in performance, then switch out a newer, faster adapter if/when one comes out (and there is not reason why one wouldn't come out).

 

Wow, that is a pretty massive improvement.

Sounds promising (despite the hiccups).

 

well, i pm'd this to epic blob, and then saw this thread. so i might as well post this here.

thought i'd let you know hibernating into and out of windows 7 between osx sessions seems to work. i don't have to re-enable my intel gpu with that enable/disable nonsense. once both gpus are enabled but only displaying on an external monitor with the egpu, i hibernate. after that, i can boot into osx as many times as i want to. when i hold down option to boot into windows, as soon as i select the windows hdd, i plug in my express card into the sonnet adapter. windows 7 comes back up and is outputting to the external lcd via egpu. this makes it SO much easier.

 

also with sky rim, disable reflections. 100% smooth, granted thats a heavy compromise in graphics depending on how you look at it.

mass effect 3 runs awesome. currently playing that right now. it is pretty epic.

also try turning your graphics settings to 16 bit color. they helped immensely in some cases. this is almost necessary when gaming on the native macbook lcd via optimus.

 

Hello epicblop Thank you so much for a review.
I have the air and was wanting a similar setup.
I was wondering if you were still using it and how is it treating you so far?
Has anything changed over the past month? (Drivers, ability use on osx, problems you are still having such as the power down, etc)
Thank you again.

 

Just posted this on another board here:
MacRumors Forums - View Single Post - New MBA runs TWO THUNDERBOLT DISPLAYS!?!!

(and then elaborated here:
New MBA runs TWO THUNDERBOLT DISPLAYS!?!! - Page 3 - MacRumors Forums
)

Reposting here as it's relevant:

I just ordered my MBA upgrade, with CPU, RAM and storage gimped up to the max. (2GHz i7, 8GB, 512GB storage). Custom all around so it'll roll up in two weeks or so.

I want it to be my next game box (as much of one as you can make an MBA into one. No quad-core CPU, but most games, and especially the ones I care about, are not CPU-bound anyway)

Obviously, that'll mean discrete graphics. The GMA4000 isn't a gaming GPU.
(and native windows in boot camp. Not under OSX, heaven forbid).

I've seen the current hack (Thunderbolt -> Express card) adapter -> (Express card -> PCIe) adapter, but the expresscard imposes a single PCIe lane bottleneck. That's marginally ok to game on 1920x1080, but not much beyond that.

So the questions are:
1. How much of the raw cactus ridge thunderbolt controller capability (2 channels x 2 lanes x 10GBps) is actually squeezed through that one single port? One or both channels? Tom's suggests (in the diagram at the bottom of the link) that both:
Everything You Need To Know About Thunderbolt : Thunderbolt Finds Its Way To PCs

That's 20GBps, or the equivalent of four PCIe 2.0 lanes (each lane is 500MBps)

2. How much of it can be taken advantage of by a 2-channel TB -> PCIe enclosure?
Sonnett has now started selling the Eco Express Pro which appears to do just that. But it's not certified against ANY graphics cards. They're zip-silent about GPU support while supporting everything from fiber channel to TV capture to 10GbE cards (even though graphics is where a large portion of their market lies) meaning there may be compatibility issues with it still. Whether those are something a tinkerer with a brain can work around or not is still in the air.

It's also got a 150W power limit on their enclosure, so a GPU needs to be picked carefully to work within that constraint (it's not too bad. Lots of capable GPUs fit into that bracket).

-- Bits from second post --

Reference setup:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/e-gp...cbook-pro.html

The 2012 Air's CPU has more grunt, and the built-in GPU is irrelevant.
The bottleneck in that setup is that the data between the machine and GPU passes through an expresscard that bottlenecks at one PCIe lane. It's the single thing that's slowing the rig down. Unless you fix it, throw a CPU 100 times faster at it, throw a GPU 100 times faster at it, the performance will stay the same.

What I've proposed widens that bottleneck from x1 PCIe 2.0 lane (500Mbytes/sec) to.... the lower of
1. The interface constraint (2012 MBA has 40Gbits configured as two channels, each with a 10Gbit up lane and a 10Gbit down lane). So in theory it can move 20Gbits/sec (that's ~2500Mbytes/sec theoretical) from the laptop to the GPU.
2. The dock design constraint. Sonnet's tech support replied to my email saying (quoting verbatim):
"The two slots in the Echo Express Pro Chassis share a single 10Gb TB connection bi-directionally."
That's 1250Mbytes/sec between laptop and GPU.

...

From Sonnet tech's support website: (Their support directed me to this and pointed out this applies to any GPU):

Is the NVIDIA Quadro 4000 for Macintosh compatible with Echo Thunderbolt Expansion Chassis?

No, the NVIDIA Quadro 4000 is not Thunderbolt compatible. Apple and Intel have prescribed specific connectivity standards for products with Thunderbolt technology interfaces. These include drivers that are recognized by Thunderbolt and allow the product to connect and disconnect while the computer is running (hot plug - unplug). Products with Thunderbolt interfaces are tested by Intel/ Apple and certified as compatible with these standards.
For PCIe expansion chassis to function correctly in this Thunderbolt connectivity paradigm, the drivers for PCIe card used in the chassis must also be updated to support these requirements. In most cases, each card manufacturer is responsible for updating the drivers of their cards. For the Quadro, it is Apple that controls the driver in Mac OS.

Intel has required all PCIe chassis manufacturers to agree to list only compatible cards that have been tested to support these standards. Apple has determined that for now, there are several technical reasons why it is not a good idea for a GPU card-including the Quadro-to connect over Thunderbolt, therefore GPU cards do not have a Thunderbolt compatible driver. UntilThunderbolt compatible drivers are released for GPU cards, they will not work over Thunderbolt.

---

So that last one about definitely not working is a lie. It is not /certified/ to work by nVidia/ATI, it will probably break in /soe cases/, but in some cases it will work, with likely caveats being running into the exact kind of trouble that people already doing the express card hack are running into - bad support for hotplugging resulting in bluescreens if you plug it in in the wrong sequence etc.

 

Just a quickie question, would making s egpu instead of buying a vidock reduce preformance? Vidock is way to expensive.

 

No it would not vidock is over priced

 

It depends on which you are most confident with. The sonnet echo works with both vidock and diy egpu.

 

i'm using a gen 1 or 2 vidock setup with my thunderbolt adapter. works fine. can use it with an egpu setup.

if prices don't come down soon, for thunderbolt chassis, i might opt for the egpu solution that supports pcie gen 2 at x1, and go with sonnets echo expresscard pro. it supports pcie gen 2.

 

Same. About ready to sell my sonnet echo for the pro model. The performance is great, but having the 1.2opt would hopefully fix a lot of the microstutters I'm facing in some games.

Btw, I found a very bizarre way of getting my egpu to work under Windows 7 consistently. I'll write it up soon.

 

for me i just hibernate. if i have to boot up into windows without the egpu, then hook it up later, it'll get an error 12. the way around this is so simple it's stupid.

you reboot, with the egpu connected. works all the time, across multiple reinstalls. i guess the 2011 mba's have enough contiguous MMIO ranges free where windows 7 will place the gtx560 into a compatible range. just gotta give win7 a chance.

i've been playing diablo3 on this setup since release. it's pretty decent.

 

Same. Something about hibernating gets it to work.

Are you planning on buying the sonnet pro? (borealiss). I feel like that would help with the stutters and fps drops.

 

Wait so can someone explain this hibernating process to me? How do you hibernate out of Windows?

 

I'll try and keep it short, but I start off in windows 7 with the card plugged in (with the card showing error 12) and my macbook charger cable unplugged. I have it set up so that when my lid closes, it puts it into hibernate. If I plug in my charger, the system will reboot. The card will start working.

Wierd, but it works.

I don't really know much about hibernating, but that in bootcamp, it causes windows to shut down unexpectedly.

 

Is this something that I can do after the first time (as in following your directions on the first page) so that I don't have to experience the error 12 again?

 

I'm actually re-writing the whole review. I'm making a new method that includes the first time and this. It only takes about 2 minutes to get it running so it's not too much of a hassle.

 

epicblob, i'm holding out on some of these other options to come to the table. i'm not keen on spending another couple hundred bucks, then have a 4x solution that does everything i want come out 3-5 months later. i'd rather do it right and do it once. sonnet is located 5 minutes from where i live. if it fits i might just pull the trigger, but i gotta size up the 560GTX. i can eat some of the cost by selling off a laptop which becomes obsolete, and my old thunderbolt solution.

gamerish, if you get the error 12, try rebooting. when you hold down the "alt/options" key on your macbook, unplug your tbolt cable. select the windows 7 option, then plug it back in. on the boot after the error 12, this always fixes it for me, every time.

so i normally hibernate via start menu, and when i need to install new drivers or patches, i just reboot using the method above. no need for diy egpu setup, at least on my macbook air.

 

borealiss, quick question for you. Supposedly with the latest Nvidia driver and a small modification, the eGPU is suppose to be able to drive the MBA internal display also. Have you had any success with such setup?

 

yes, this works just fine. not sure about the latest, but the version i'm using (straight off the nvidia site) enables optimus by default. internal lcd works alright, but i have to downgrade to 16bit color in order to save bandwidth.

you'll get a noticeable performance hit with it though. you really need gen 2 pcie for this.

 

Thank you for the info. It is good to hear that once thunderbolt adapter, PCIe hub is release, we can look forward to seamless integration of the MBA with eGPU using bootcamp window 7.

Now if only MSI GUS II will release soon...

 

I totally agree. I will acquire the Echo Pro ExpressCard/34 Thunderbolt Adapter (plus an ExpressCard eGPU) and burn my brain to make it work under OS X (Lion or Mountain Lion).

I have to confess I was hopeless untill I see this video which a guy from MediaPros make a nVIDIA Quadra 4000 work through Thunderbolt.

 

It would be great to get this working under mac os x. Maybe if we can create enough buzz around the macbook and egpu paired using the sonnet echo, they will get around to updating the drivers (I think that's what I understood to being a fix).

 

There are no cheaper alternatives as of right now right? Do you think they'll get cheaper anytime soon?

 

BPlus are demoing their TH05 native Thunderbolt eGPU product on their facebook page. It will give x2 2.0 bandwidth, or about the same as the x1.2Opt (NVidia) ones ppl are seeing here if they buy the Sonnet Echo Pro pci-e 2.0 TB-to-expresscard adapter but the TH05 will be considerably cheaper.

 

Are the prices in the OP still the same? So basically we need about $400 if we want to hook this up to a Macbook right? I wish there were alternative options =/

 

My setup cost:
sonnet echo adapter: 150
thunderbolt cable: 45
Vidock 4+ (300) or pe4l 2.1 + power supply: ~100
graphics card (560): 160

Sadly it is still not a cheap option, but as of now it is the only one for TB mac users that is not outrageous (looking at you sonnet and your $700 enclosure)

 

Hey I have a question. I tried the whole hibernation procedure and just had no luck. I'm trying to run an nvidia 560 on the internal screen and when I go to reboot after hibernation, I get a black screen. Same goes for the other tricks listed. How did you get your card to work on internal screen???

 

Hey boreallis, could you explain how you got it to run on internal MBA screen??

 

It will usually default to having a secondary screen connected in Windows. If you have an external, it should work with that and then in change screen resolution, make sure 'display 1' is chosen only. Also, you might try this:


1. (optional) Set your computer to always boot in Win 7. Go to System Preferences in mac os x and as Boot Drive select Windows 7.

2. Shut down the Computer ( reboot is not sufficient )

3. Make sure your entire setup is plugged in and on except your computer which should be turned off. (Vidock is turned on and the expresscard is plugged into the sonnet echo adapter, adapter is plugged into your macbook thunderbolt bolt. Also if you have an external monitor, it is plugged into your Vidock).

4. Turn on the computer. Your screen will turn grey and you will hear the Mac Chime. While the screen in white, unplug the expresscard from your sonnet echo adapter.

5. Your screen will now turn black. When the Windows icon appears and is loading, plug back in the expresscard to your sonnet echo adapter.

6. Wait for Windows to load. Your card should now be working without any errors.

 

Genius, it worked, no code 12! Thanks so much.

 

One more question, does optimus just kick in or do I have to tinker with any settings to get it to switch drives?

 

As long as you downloaded the NVidia drivers it'll work fine. And glad I could help

Btw, what's your setup consist of?

 

I'm running a 2011 MacBook Pro 13inch with a sonnet pro and the vidock 4plus with an nvidia gt560. I know it'd be better to use a monitor but I really want to just use the internal screen if I can. Thanks for the driver tip. I've run into a new snag though haha. Now thy I've it everything working, it seems like the vidock system is slowing my operating system performance down tremendously.... Any thoughts? Sorry I'm so hopeless haha, really appreciate your help though!

 

Have you kept the Vidock running for a while? There have been a few instances (including myself) where I'd keep it running for a while (day or so) and the performance would be BAD. All I did was shut it down then turn everything back on and it worked fine.

 

Definitely hasn't been running for long at all.

 

HI I just read your thread.

I have tried with my mac book air as you did. However error 12 never goes away...

Do you have other solutions that I can try?

 

Hi!

Is there a way to achieve an x2 link with the hardware i have in the picture? (i've made the question in another thread, but noone seems to answer and i don't this clear in my mind).

Also, if i need something else, what is it?

I use a MacBook Pro Late 2011 with a Intel Series 6 chipset i think (the latest MBP before the actual one, the latest with a 17" screen).



Cheers and thanks!!

 

Try this:
1. (optional) Set your computer to always boot in Win 7. Go to System Preferences in mac os x and as Boot Drive select Windows 7.

2. Shut down the Computer ( reboot is not sufficient )

3. Make sure your entire setup is plugged in and on except your computer which should be turned off. (Vidock is turned on and the expresscard is plugged into the sonnet echo adapter, adapter is plugged into your macbook thunderbolt bolt. Also if you have an external monitor, it is plugged into your Vidock).

4. Turn on the computer. Your screen will turn grey and you will hear the Mac Chime. While the screen in white, unplug the expresscard from your sonnet echo adapter.

5. Your screen will now turn black. When the Windows icon appears and is loading, plug back in the expresscard to your sonnet echo adapter.

6. Wait for Windows to load. Your card should now be working without any errors.

 

Is that the PE4L or the PE4H? If you bought the PE4H then sadly it is only pcie 1.0 compatible. And be aware that the macbook pros with discrete graphics card aren't able to enable Optimus compression (huge boost in performance, allows for internal screen usage) because the igpu is disabled in windows 7. No idea why Apple does't have the igpu enabled, but so far there hasn't been anyone who has gotten the igpu working.

 

Is the PE4H, but according to the table in this site (scroll down a bit until you see the table that compare the different versions, from 1.0 to 2.4
PE4H (PCIe passive adapter ver2.4)
The 2.4 version (which is what i have) is able to do more than x1, also the PE4L has an x1 slot, not a x16 slot, like the PE4H, are you sure that it's the PE4L the one is capable of doing more than x1?
Here is the site i've found for the PE4L, and it seems to me a x1 slot no more:
PE4L V2.1 ( PCIe Adapter )

I don't care if i'm wrong and i have to acquire the PE4L, but in that case, please point me to the website where i can acquire the correct one with the x16 slot
Also i don't care about the transfer speed, the target i have for this card is 3D rendering, so in theory x1 should be enough, but i thing there are some problems with x1 in some render engines, so probably i will need x2.

Cheers and thanks for the answer

 

Are you planning on using an AMD or NVIDIA card (choose NVidia! ). NVidia are actually much more friendly when it comes to e-gpus.

I would honestly just go for the PE4L 2.1. And yes, a x16 card can fit on the pe4l. pcie 2.0 is much faster than pcie 1.0, and you can never have too much power . It'll also last longer down the road. The PE4L can be purchased from HWTools. If you want, you could also look at the Vidock.

 

I will use just Nvidia cards, i need Cuda to be able to render.

What i don't undestand is why the PE4L has the short slot for the graphics cards instead of a full x16 slot

I prefer to stay with DIY solutions rather than use ViDock.

I think i'll acquire the PE4L too

Cheers.

 

I was wondering the same thing, too. It is a bit odd that the faster one is smaller

And depending on your budget, a good beginner card is the nvidia 460 as it supports cuda.

 

Just ordered my Sonnet Echo Express Pro.
The whole rig is not cheap -
a. Decked-out Macbook Air (i7, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD) - circa $2500. Got that.
b. Sonnet rig - ~800$.
c. TB cable - ~50$.
d. GPU - 250-350$.

Sonnet claim using both TB channels (which the 2012 MBA supports) resulting in 4 PCIe lanes. This is as much as I expect to be able to squeeze out of thunderbolt anytime soon, so as far as I'm concerned, this is a good use of my 3-5 year gaming dollars.

Once it arrives,
[a] Pop over to the Apple store to get a $50 cable.
Repartition and install Windows 7 in Boot Camp. (F#@! Windows 8.)
[c] See if I can get it working with an old ATI Radeon HD 4850 I have lying around. Rumor has it that getting ATI cards to co-operate is harder.
[d] Buy a GTX 660 and try that. Three notes on this:
i. In must fit inside 150 Watts (and ideally not come too close to the actual 150 Watt mark. I'm a bit cautious of buying a 660 Ti, game hard, have the GPU spike a bit above 150 Watts and fry the Sonnet PSU)
ii. Oomphwise, I want no less than a 660 or a 7850. The 660 sounds saner as it's rumored nVidia is easier to get running over thunderbolt, and it's actually faster. See here:
GeForce GTX 660 vs Radeon HD 7850 – Performance Comparison Benchmarks @ Hardware Compare
iii. With a CPU to GPU bottleneck (our four PCIe2.0 lanes over TB), lots of RAM on the GPU is king. More stuff is cached, you need to shuffle textures less times into the GPU, less congestion on the pipe, faster frame rates.
I'll aim for a 3GB card... there are a bare few 660's with 3GB that fall in under 150Watts but they exist:
This one is 140Watts but isn't on sale (yet):
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b336/EVGA_GTX_660_FTW_Signature_2_3GB.html
The 660 Ti's are 150Watts and there's a whole bunch of them:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006662&IsNodeId=1&Description=660%203GB&bop=And&CompareItemList=-1|14-130-811^14-130-811-TS%2C14-162-119^14-162-119-TS%2C14-130-812^14-130-812-TS%2C14-125-450^14-125-450-TS%2C14-130-817^14-130-817-TS

I'm keen to see if I can get my MBA driving some serious game engine on the 30'' at native 2560x1600 res. Now that'd be cool.

 

I was able to get the Sonnet to work right by downloading the windows version of the SxS sony drivers. I am currently running a GTX660Ti on my MBA setup

i7 2.0 Ivy, 8gb 1600, 512SSD, Thunderbolt Display
-ViDock 4+ (275w)
-Loaded with EVGA GTX 660Ti, 3GB SC
-Sonnet ExpressCard Thunderbolt Adapter 3/4 Pro

Working well so far, sound is buggy and cuts out, I am trying different driver versions to see what may work best. For the most part I am VERY happy with the results, I can run borderlands 2 1900x1200 on full graphics pretty seamlessly

Let me know if you have any questions, I had a few hang ups I had to work through and I am more than happy to help