USB 3.0 External PCi Enclosure

Hey Guys,

I am doing a Senior Design Project and working to make a USB 3.0 External PCi Enclosure for use with laptop and desktops. The main purpose is to allow Ultrabook laptops, or older notebooks to use a external graphics card then, instead of relying on the Intel Integrated card. I am wondering if anyone would be willing to purchase a device like this or use this product?

Attached is the rough sketch up of the design, and product features.

If you have questions or anything regarding it please ask.

Product Features:
-Allows for external use of a full sized Graphics Card (NVidia, AMD, etc..).

-This will more the triple the performance of the computer, and allow the computer to run the most demanding games, and software!
-Will be light weight and durable, which is perfect for traveling.
-Will Use USB 3.0 and the new 3.1 standard, which is common amongst computers.
-Will come preloaded with Software to allow for the correct drivers to be installed on the computer.
-The PCi slot will not be limited to a graphic cards, but any PCi compatible device i.e. Wireless Adapter, RAM.

 

This sounds amazing! I personally wouldn't be interested as I already have a capable machine but I know a few people who would.

How far are you into the process? Because I do believe USB 3 doesn't natively have any PCI-e lanes and has a MUCH higher latency compared to thunderbolt or expresscard.

 

If you have a convincing plan on how to accelerate graphics through this interface reliably, then I would be the first in line!

 

We already have the ground work done, and will be doing testing for throughout and speed, but from looking at the controllers and gear we are using it should be significantly better then an integrated card. We did initially look at using Thunderbolt, but with Intel not supporting it and denying certification we had to go another route. Also we will be looking at using USB 3.1 which is going to be 10 GBs in speed.

We will be creating our own circuit board for the device and also looking through specs we should be able to get very good speeds from say a Intel HD 3000/4000 one should expect 5-10 times performance boost. The rough sketch up will be changing I am in the process of adding a new one. I was just curious if this would be a viable product as I know I would love to play high end games and programs on my Samsung Series 9!

Thanks for the feedback, please if you have any suggestions or comments ask!!

 

Seriously, you need to get this crowdfunded! Look at kickstarter, idiegogo, ignitiondeck or selfstarter.

 

We are actually looking at doing that but want to get the prototype up and fully functional first, and should have it roughly done by December.

 

Hey guys,
I attached new images of what it will look like, with VGA and HDMI ports. Please feel free to add any suggestions or changes to the design and how it will function.

 

Good apart from the graphics card facing the wrong way in the slot. (Gpu should be the other side of the pcb).

 

Are you guys developing this around the PLX 3382?

 

Will the power supply be built in or external? And are you making your own or will people just buy generic power supplies.

 

Yeah I noticed that, I will correct that when I get some free time. Busy ordering parts.

Yes we are.

At the moment we were planning on a built in power supply that would be included with the unit, but are open to suggestions.

 

Does it make sense to add a couple of USB 3 ports? That would be nice as some laptops come with only one.

 

I thought it's been put out several times before. Even though USB 3 is much better than older USB versions for transferring files, it has nowhere near the throughput required for an effective video card. It's not a high speed bus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the integrated graphics with Ivy and Haswell should be better than any external usb 3.0 solution, right?

 

It would be viable option but in the current iteration will be using only one USB 3.0 Port. Adding a USB hub to the device will increase cost and size. We may look into it further though thanks for the tip!

Ivy and Haswell are still no where near capable of running current games/software at 30+ FPS. Ivy can run low demand games, but it still how the laptop/computer has been configured and how much VRAM the manufacturers allow the HD4000/HD4400/HD5000 to use. Also most Laptops are configured and tweaked to throttle the integrated GPU, like my Samsung Series 9 15" will throttle the HD4000 while gaming once the laptop reaches a certain threshold of temperature. It will go from 800 Mhz to 450, to reduce heat.

With USB 3.0 and 3.1 you will not see the throughput a Discrete GPU in a Desktop can put out, do to the speed of USB, but it will still be 3-6 times the performance increase over Intel's intergrated GPU's (HD4000/4400/5000). USB 3.0 can get up to 4.8 GBs and 3.1 will go up to 10 GBs in speed, Will obviously not be able to hit those max numbers using the External GPU Enclosure but with homemade External Enclosures out there people are seeing FPS jump from 23 FPS to 68 FPS max settings.

I will be fixing this, was up late finishing the design.

 

Can you please show benchmarks and examples? I think you may also be confusing GB/s with Gbit/s. USB 3.0 has a bandwidth of roughly 5 Gbit/s. The slowest of the integrated graphics you mentioned has memory bandwidth of ~25 GB/s, making it around 40 times faster than the USB 3.0.

 

Bandwidth doesn't have much to do with it. at pcie 2.0 x1, my nvidia 660 runs at around 80% of full desktop performace. Or about 1000% better than an integrated intel HD.

 

Can you please show me some real life benchmarks with the details of your setup? I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, but I want to see some real measurements. If these benchmarks show an advantage, I'm more than happy to spend the time making such an enclosure.

 

Benchmarked using fraps. Played at 1080p with maxxed out settings (JC2 had gpu water simulation off because its buggy as hell and BL2 has physx turned down as this wasn't available as an option of the intel hd).

These were done with my Mac MIni setup. Specs are in my signature.

 

Cool, that's quite an improvement, but you are using an express card slot, right? I'm not sure if a usb 3.0 egpu would fare as well, but who knows.

 

Both Expresscard and USB 3 can move 500MB of data (theoretically). New USB 3 controllers can even push 10Gbps or the same as Thunderbolt 1.

 

ExpressCard 2.0 provides a single PCI Express 2.0 x1 lane with a transfer rate of 5 GT/s. USB3 is also capable of 5 GT/s. Lots of people in this sub-forum are already running eGPUs on ExpressCard slots w/ 5GT/s bandwidth and they are much faster than integrated graphics. There are thread upon thread of benchmarks. Bus bandwidth isn't everything, and even modern GPUs work pretty well at lower bus bandwidth (you can plug a PCI Express x16 card into an x1 slot and it works, PCIe auto negotiates to use the available lanes).

The big issues is translating between two very different physical links and data protocols (and back again) which there are already chips that do that task - USB3380EVB Â(USB3380 Evaluation Board) - and driver support that actually works for 3D graphics (which as far as I can find no one has done).

Rather than arguing about the available bandwidth which is clearly there, I'd like to hear how the OP plans to solve the driver issue to make this actually work.

 

We will be programming software/drivers to run and solve this issue. It will be similar to how using a homemade Thunderbolt to PCi express (and a Relay jumper cable) on a MacBook Air and then using software to properly configure it to work using the Laptops LCD screen. If you would like the links to this and it working I can post them, just don't want to type it all out. Needless to say I have contacted the developer for the software and have taken a look at the source code for it.

We realize Thunderbolt is different then USB, but certain features will work the same, and we will be using a USB3382 as the main piece to go to PCi Express.

 

Fantastic idea. I can't wait to see the progression of this project. Subscribed!

 

I am just posting so i can get updates in this xD

 

Sorry to play the devils advocate here but... credentials please?

I'm seeing boomwaller post a lot of non-technical information in a ways that 'sound' like he knows what he's talking about, yet getting really basic things wrong.

What engineering program are you in that is attempting this? While I would love to see a pci to usb3.1 adapter happen, it's my understanding that there are technical limitations of usb that would not allow this to happen. The only operating system I could foresee this working on would be linux, and then only barely. The cpu instructions are not built in such a way to interpret video signals out of a none pci lane and that chip does not solve the problem unless it replaces the usb controller on the computer.

 

Hey sorry for some of the information being different, this a group of EE CS and CE majors for our senior design project been working on it for 1 semester now. We have been making changes to how to implement our idea, and already have the majority of the parts ordered/ setup on the board we designed. We will be using a USB3382 Microcontroller, along with WIndows Virtual drivers to make this work. If you would care for links on this working I can give them. Others have already implemented software/drivers to allow Windows to use a USB or Thunderbolt port for use of an external GPU.

Again sorry for the belated response been a busy 2 months, with soldering this together and creating the board layout in EAGLE, if you have any comments feel free to PM me.

Thanks,

 

What's the current status of this project?

 

This is definitely an interesting product, if you are able to make it powerful enough for gaming.

Though, I am a bit concerned about how using the USB 3 port will affect latency to the display, which would not be good for games if it goes up.

Another concern I am sitting with, is that this product would probably have a very short product life cycle, as the USB 3 port seems to limit the maximum output power of the egraphics card and the new APUs (CPU with GPU) are getting ever stronger internal graphics accelraters, which will close the performance gap between such USB device and the APUs graphics power...

The final concern is that an external USB to PCI enclosure with powersupply and so on, would probably have a bit of a price tag (around $100), plus you would have to put a graphic card into it... A card that fits would probably be around $300... with $400 extra to spent people might want a litte bit more value than just a graphic boost for their ultrabooks. Perhaps adding some USB ports on the device for keyboard, mouse and other stof would help a bit... Maybe also an extra PCI for a sound card... But what wound these extra connections do to the performance of the eGPU?....

Adding extra PCI might also open doors to other segments than gamers.... I don't know....


Ps. Plz update status ...

 

Hi Guys, this does sound awesome, would love to hear a progress update.

I currently have a surface pro 2 running a hd4400 and its not at all any good for gaming, a similar product (in theory) to what you have described is sitting on my desk, its a usb3 external videocard, its manufactured by SUNIX and the model is VGA2788 (i believe)

I know the card itself isnt interchangeable but the idea behind it is the same usb3 compliant external videocard providing a virtual display adapter leading to a HDMI port which can power an external monitor.

It would be nice to hear of any progress.

Thanks

 

I've been seeking this exact solution for a while, Is there any progress update?

I haven't seen anything specific, but it seems to me the theoretical speeds should suffice. I to have wondered whether a sufficient driver could be written to make this accessible. I am specifically interested in using this with virtualization software such as ESXi.

 

I would love to get my hands on somthing like this for my samsung Ativ 8 if you start a kickstarter let me know

 

Yeah, I would love that since my Samsung Ativ 9 (2014 edition) doesn't have thundrbolt or other useful ports....

But would like to have this for video editing and for processing 4K, maybe to connect 2 4K monitors

What's the status here?

Could we use 2 graphic cards in SLI or whatever inside connected to 2 USB3 ports?

 

I've had this on my watch list for a while, but I've come to the conclusion it's just Vaporware.

It looks like the PLX338x (device mentioned mid-way) could help facilitate some pcie devices , but between programming and bandwidth issues, it likely would be a headache to deal with. I could go into WHY, but the onerous shouldn't be on me to dis-prove something that could be easily proven, were it to exist at any stage of development.

Things that could/would make this interesting again:
1. Working (whole or in part) prototype
2. Video of any kind of testing (or heck, even some pictures)
3. Funding page/details
4. Log of progress, webpage, or other evidence of actual work outside of photoshop/mspaint.

If I could get a fantastical USB 3.x to PCIe converter, I would keep it next to my current money maker, though I'm not sure which would give me the most satisfaction.

 

No one cares about enclosures. Forget that. No one likes bloatware. forget that too. just make the adapter on a pcb and sell it.
PS: we are already expecting the vaporware

 

New USB-type C with USB 3.1speed would be perfect for this project. Has more than enough bandwith (10Gbps) for transfer speed and power delivery up to 100W!
I am using Lenovo X230 and it ExpressCard 2.0 which has only 1 pci-e lane and bandwith of 5Gbps. I have desktop GTX460 running on it, and the gpu score in 3dmark13 is littlebit slower (-10-15%) when compared to full pcie 2.0x16 lane i tested this before! So bring it on!

 

I would love to see this happen, but we havent heard anything from the developer...