(Part 2) If U Can Solve This U R King

can you please share your list of firmwares and drivers?

EC Firmware version

BIOS version

Intel ME Firmware version

Intel Management Engine Driver version

Intel Chipset C230 LPC Controller HM170 driver version

 

Later i will try installing trial version of bf1 from origin and test it in multiplayer.

 

@Semmy BF1:

Resolution scale is 150% @99% GPU Load. If i reduce it to 100% gpu load is 75%-97%. The same thing happens in the video u linked for me. When he reduced his res. scale to 100% his gpu load decreased to 77%, same laptop. See minute 2:30 in his video.So we can conclude no problem with my system and bf3 is poorly optimized.

 

Those no undervolt / -50mV undervolt scores are all too close to call it anything but run environment differences. If you got 148 once with -50mV undervolt, it counts

You should also be able to undervolt quite a bit further, unless your CPU is one of those that won't. Most will typically do -100mV to -220mV, so keep increasing the undervolt, run a couple of benchmark runs of CB to test for not only score but also for stability, then try increasing undervolt again.

I usually start at -100mV to see if it's a typical CPU - if I get BSOD I drop down to -50mV, but most are ok at -100mV. I only had 1 CPU that only did -15mV initially.

If -100mV is ok, increase undervolt -10mV at a time until BSOD - or you see a larger than 10 drop in CB score, and then back off +5mV and see what you see.

Many reach at least -140mV to -150mV, some much further, so -50mV isn't enough, unless it is...

 

hmscott, if using intel XTU, do i have to restart after applying each undervolt?

 

Yes and its a free bloat as well.

 

As I already wrote, it was consistently worse with undervolt than with normal voltage. Even tho it was only by 1-2 points, multiple tests have shown that it's consisstent and not just a margin of error. When undervolting, your single core score does seem to be affected, however the multiscore is always the same, which is really odd.

 

Sorry, I don't see it that way. You can have multiple runs one 15 minute period, and a few hours later get a different run. Different tasks running in the background are enough. A couple of points isn't enough, do the math, what's the percentage involved for a 1-2 points over 148?

"When undervolting" according to you is -50mV, I'm suggesting that's not as good as most CPU's can do, so give a shot at -100mV and see what scores look like. Then keep going further.

I've undervolted and benchmarked lots of CPU's, and they really only show score differences near the point of instability, if they ever do at all.

I honestly can't believe, in fact have marveled for weeks, that you all have wasted so much time over small differences in benchmark runs. I don't think anything was wrong with @Unhappy User 's original configuration, I think it's all down to novices bumping around in the dark, not knowing enough yet to figure out nothings wrong

I'll back out again, I said all the same stuff 2 months ago or so, and you all are still futzing around about nothing.

But, as long as you are all having fun, being entertained by it all, I suppose it's as good a waste of time as any.

I prefer actually gaming to doing nothing in particular, but that's just me

 

Everytime i shutdown my laptop, intel xtu resets its undervolt settings and i have to apply them again. Any way to fix this?

Btw now i am consistently getting 680cb in CB R15 without undervolt. I dont why or how. All the changes i made were updating realtek hd audio driver and installing xtu, undervolting by -100mv then reverting it back to 0mv.

 

I ran them later as well, same result. It doesn't matter how you or I see it, fact is that it runs worse on undervolt, wheter you like it or not. Same observations have been made by 2 other users namely unhappy user and vasudev who had even worse performance difference, but also undervolted more than me.

Also you clearly haven't read the thread, both me and vasudev already stated several times that unhappy users CPU is running perfecly fine. There was never a question about his performance being bad, both me and vasudev pointed out that we both had optimized our CPU's / OS's to reach the performance we currently have, on stock we scored about the same as unhappy user did.

Interesting reality you created tho, thumbs up for that.

 

Then why are you still wasting time here? We also - including you - told @Unhappy User there was nothing wrong with his laptop before he RMA'd it.

He even toyed with you all and said he wanted to change his username to HappyUser, then a few minutes later complained about performance again, and here you all are days later spinning over it all still.

You can spin it however you want, there are no performance drops by undervolting, proven by hundreds of people I've seen and likely 10k's of people overall - hopefully even more, not just me.

You can p&m about 1-2 points drop, but it's nothing but the OS background load playing with the single core score.

You do know when idle and 1 core is active the boost is higher than with background tasks loading the other cores and bringing down boost across all cores. That's your difference.

When you are running multi-core the load is constant across all cores, and there won't be variation by background tasks starting and reducing clock and performance.

Again, your a novice, there's no shame in it, but instead of spinning it off, listen and learn.

Try a higher undervolt, that's the next undiscovered land for you

 

You are a toxic person hmscott. All ur smiles and words of wisdom are fake and hide a wicked character. Please leave.

 

Not quite, before he RMA'ed it I told him his performance issues were not caused by the CPU, but by the GPU, namely the pascal problem, he RMA'ed it annnnnddd suddenly we got new GPU in the system. Seems MSI agreed with me on this one.

He wasn't toying at all, he was happy that his system would finally run again with his old performance.

And nobody cares about your oppinion, we observe and conclude with observations, if 3 users with the same CPU observe corresponding to the undervolt worse performance in single core, then we conclude that undervolting will worsen the single core performance on undervolt.

We don't substitute reality for wishful thinking such as you do.

So yeah, you're a deluded novice, congrats.

Sorry but I had to laugh at this. It made me picture a dude trying to sell people a box of poop while claiming it has something nice in it while smiling with an evil smile and quoting some stuff from fortune cookies. (yes that's my image of hmscott now thanks to you)

 

@Unhappy User aka Happy user: You can stop benching your PC and enjoy gaming and other stuffs why you bought the PC in the first place. Then fiddle with it and perfecting every tweak in the book/google to get max performance.
Like I said your Silicon quality is better than mine. I just circumvented it by repasting/repadding correctly.
W/o those my cpu hits 98C instantly, ask Papusan.

 

Vasudev i agree. It just happened that i had been relying on an upoptimized game to assess the performance of my laptop, which is BF3. Thanks to Semmy's suggestion yesterday i tried BF1 instead and witnessed optimal performance with stable 99% GPU load, posted here. And after CB r15 is yielding a consistent 680cb there is nothing more i can ask for. Other than understanding how it increased to this level on its own.

For future readers and before the thread gets locked, I am now posting a final summary post of the solutions that worked.

 

Undervolting is only required because of VID BOOST. It's not because of the chips being overvolted by Intel. Its because of the cancer Bios...You're basically undoing the VID BOOST in a VERY ungraceful way but you need to check for WHEA CORRECTABLE ERRORS in hwinfo64 and windows event viewer when undervolting. Because light load or idle may become unstable.

The proper way to fix this issue is to set IA AC DC Loadline to 1 (5 can help reduce some vdroop with very very low VID boost) in your MSI Bios and then set a positive voltage offset if this causes any BSOD or WHEA correctable errors. But most people don't have access to this setting. You can donate to svet to unlock your bios for you, or you can unlock it yourself with the guides @Paloseco , @sirgeorge and others have posted by disabling the Bios Lock key (hard part) then dumping the bios APTIO region with FPTW64.exe -d biosname.bin -bios, unlocking the menus, then flashing the aptio capsule back with -f.

 

They reach -140 to -150mv because that almost completely eliminates the VID boost of about 120mv from the 1.80 mOhms of resistance (IA AC DC Loadline=Auto). But you have to watch not only for full load bsod/crash, but also for idle crash and WHEA correctable errors (I believe these errors are the cause of performance drop).

For those with an unlocked Bios, removing the undervolt TOTALLY, and overriding the AC DC auto setting with AC DC Loadline=1 will most likely give you the exact same temps and power draw reduction, WITHOUT affecting idle stability.

 

How did you update MEI FW w/o MSI official patch? Will enable ME FW reflash and enabling Local ME update do the trick? And how to toggle Admin user,extended user in Aptio V using AMIBCP?
So where do you set AC DC loadline?

 

Msi patch is just easy mode.
I used the win-raid raw firmware file and the intel FWupdate flasher.

https://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html
I think I got this one for PCH-H

http://www.mediafire.com/file/72311a1dpnc3y3x/Intel+CSME+Firmware+v11.8.50.3426+(CON+H).rar and Intel CSME system tools 11.4 (Now up to 11.6).

But this is for brave people. I think you get PCH-H version. But there may be third party modifications that may make this method have issues. It worked fine for my GT73VR.

Are you trying to unlock your bios?
IA AC DC loadline is in "Intel I/A Core Domain", usually in some "Power and Performance" submenu.
For menus just set them to supervisor in AMIBCP.

Biggest problem for unlocking bios is NEVER EVER EVER EVER try to unlock officially downloaded Bios, because this contain more than just the APTIO capsule. Since you're only editing the "user space" (APTIO capsule), and official Bios has APTIO, ME, boot block, EC sometimes, UEFI all together, that can result in an instant brick.

 

This is a summary post that recaps the set of solutions that solved my original problem with MSI GT62VR. It has been a great learning experience for me. The process covered 5 key steps:

I. Replacing GPU and Cooling Components:
The laptop was sent to MSI for warranty service and MSI performed the following:
- Replaced my GTX1070 with a new one
- Replaced the entire cooling module (2 fans, all heat pipes and heat sinks) and repasted the CPU and GPU
- Formatted the system and installed a bloated version of windows 10 which I later tweaked using Phoenix's guide.

Results posted here: Temperatures went down by 15C-20C under heavy load. Also witnessed better scores in all 3DMark and Heaven benchmarks. However, Cinebench R15 and Battlefield 3 multiplayer witnessed no improvement.

II. Activating Dual Channel Mode:
Next, I installed a second RAM stick to enable dual channel-mode. I added it in easy access slot #2, in addition to the existing stick in hard-to-access slot #3.

Results posted here: The minimum and maximum fps in BF3 increased by +20fps, avg. by +8fps. All 3Dmark scores increased, especially the CPU score component. No change in Cinebench R15 score. No change in Heaven.

III. Downloaded latest version of Cinebench R15 (v15.0.3.8)

Result posted here: First run of the multicore test yielded a higher score of 660cb. Older version used was 15.0.3.7 and consistently yielding 648cb-650cb after applying latest INTEL ME FIRMWARE PATCH which reportedly slows down the CPU by 1%-3%.

IV. Undervolted by -100mV using Intel XTU:

Results posted here (multicore) and here (single core): Cinebench multicore score increased to 674cb, it seems that before the undervolt the CPU was reaching its max TDP @45W during the test making it throttle and score only 660cb. After -100mv, power consumption was ~42W during test, and no throttling. However, the single core score decreased to 126cb. I did not spend time to further calibrate the undervolt and find the sweet spot that increases both scores. I did not test gaming during the undervolt since the CPU clocks were not throttling anyway in BF3.

V. Mysterious Part:

I removed the undervolt. I updated Realtek HD Audio driver to v6.0.1.8318. Cinebench R15 now consistently scores 678-681 on multicore @41Watt, and 147 on single core. The reasons behind this surge in performance are not yet clear.

VI. GPU Load Test:

I installed BF1, Mass Effect Andromeda, and the witcher 3, and the GPU operates @99% load in all 3, contrary to BF3. Hence it is a game optimization issue and not GPU issue. Recording of BF1 can be found in this post. All graphics scores in benchmarks and framerates in games are normal and as expected, except for BF3.

VII. Acknowledgements:

In order of appearance:

Thanks to @Danishblunt for helping me overcome my historical fear and overclock my GPU for the 1st time in my life and witness its impact on performance

Thanks to @yrekabakery for posting the insightful videos showing the impact of Dual-Channel mode in multiplayer shooter games

Thanks to @Vasudev for his friendly attitude, positivity, and patience while supporting me throughout the entire thread

Thanks to @macmyc for spotting my Single-Channel RAM mode in BIOS and patiently sharing his scores and settings from his laptop

Thanks to @aaronne for taking time to install and test BF3 for me when needed

Thanks to @Papusan for his patience, continuous support, and helping me realize my CPU was reaching maximum power limit during CB R15 multicore test, and helping me overcome my historical fear to undervolt my CPU for the 1st time

Thanks to @Phoenix for teaching me how to reset the CMOS without opening the case, for his Macrium Reflect video guide, and for his Win10 Clean Installation Guide

Thanks to @Falkentyne for his wealth of knowledge on RAM and overclocking which enriched the discussion

Thanks to @Semmy who saved the day by proving that dual-channel can be activated on MSI GT62VR by inserting one RAM stick in 2 different Banks/Compartments, and for his patience to read and write long posts in a foreign language

 

Dell locked out ME local update so I can't use any ME FW at all.

 

So you want to unlock bios menus and then set ME Local FW Update from "Disabled" to "Enabled", in bios, is that it?

And yes unlocking APTIO 5 bios menus is easy. Just time consuming.
FPTW64.exe -d mybios.bin -bios creates a aptio dump.
open it with AMIBCP v5+ to set menus and submenus to supervisor. Then save it or change the name to mybiosmodified.bin or whatever.

then flash it back with FPTW64.exe -f mybiosmodified.bin -bios

Problem is the Bios Lock key. If this is enabled, flashing will fail,
and disabling that is difficult. Read the post in the MSI section on unlocking your own bios. You will have to adapt the guid key and methods to find that key for your own laptop and i cant help with that.
Getting "Bios Lock" to be disabled is the hard part.
The official instructions tell you to get the guid key from running UEFItool on the official downloaded Bios file, then extracting it and then using universal IFR extractor on that file you extracted. IT MAY be possible to run UEFItool on the file you dumped with FPTW64 to save time, but I have NOT tested that and if someone decides to do that, that's on them. I can tell you that running uefitool on the aptio file you backed up yourself DOES find the bios lock key.

And you had best have a hardware SPI programmer available in case something goes wrong too.

 

Yes this is an optimization problem. Partially Nvidia + Windows + games. Because this problem is common not only for laptops, but also for PC (desktop)

 

That's why I said Bf3 is a complete mess. after optimizing the game it ran on 200fps on a 6700hq + 980M. Same goes to other catastropic games like many in the COD series, Batman arkham city, Ark suvival and PubG. Bf1 however is way way way way more optmized.

 

I'm glad you finally realized that the problem is BF3 and not only on your cooling components. I too struggle to get steady120 fps on Rainbow six Siege because it hits the CPU really hard. The only way to workaround this is to adjust some settings and try to shift more load on the GPU, most of times (from what i have seen) it doesn't help much. Hmscott isn't totally wrong in my opinion, background tasks (windows ones aswell) can easily screw up benchmarks, you have seen it from my laptop too when instead of getting 680+ cb score it went down drastically and then it came back on 676+.

Those benchmarks mean almost nothing to me, if an application or a game is not optimized for your hardware it will run like **** no matter what you do. A perfect example for this is GTA IV or Assassin Creed III when you stay in town it will drops fps like mad no matter what CPU you got.

 

Yup, load stable and idle stable, written the procedure up a hundred times at least

Most, 99.9% of the owners just want low temps and stable operation to game, they don't want to futz around for hours and hours, days after days like you and others to tweak and tune. 15 minutes in and out to undervolt to -100mV is enough for most. Some will take it to best undervolt load / idle, and OC if their CPU will do it.

The BIOS hacking is fraught with too high a percentage of lost souls never to be seen gaming again - they are always benchmarking and hardware hacking instead. Nothing wrong with it, it's just asymptotic to most people's original goal, never quite making it back to gaming.

It's nice to see so many happy people, happy with their purchases, and back on their path to enjoying their pursuits and desires original to their purchases.

 

Yup, it's out of the box too hot voltage ruins many a good build in the eye's of the buyer, and they don't want to spend their lives disassembing brand new hardware to apply the re-paste fix, and it's not required in 99% of the situations, undervolting is enough.

Undervolting -100mV fixes 99.9% of them and stops them from thermal throttling, which is all you really need to do. The rest need to be returned or RMA'd, I rarely recommend re-pasting a laptop unless they have done many disassembles of desktops or other laptops before.

Most people just want to enjoy their laptops, undervolting is the quickest way to get them back doing what they wanted to do when they bought their laptop.

Then later when they read about OC'ing and want to do that too, they are already comfortable - at least familiar with XTU, TS, or BIOS settings, and they can be easily helped to tune further for best CPU / GPU performance on stock firmware.

Small steps, and let them enjoy their laptops before pressing them into a life of tweaking, that seems to make the most effect quickest, and everyone gets back to their lives.

 

XTU won't Apply a Selected Saved Profile at the next boot if it detects Windows didn't shutdown cleanly.

IDK if it's Windows 10 and XTU not interacting right, soft shutdown with Hybrid boot, or other bugs, but some have scripted applying the settings at boot to get around this on / off problem. Others have no problem at all, so there might be other contributing factors.

You could disable Hibernation and reboot, then select a profile in XTU, Apply it, and verify it's working - then reboot and see if that fixed it - for some it does, but there are still times where XTU thinks a crash occured - or maybe a power off instead of shutdown is detected, and you have to go back in and reselect / apply the profile. Or install the script to run at boot...

There's a thread dedicated to the scripting, which has had to change a couple of times through MS Windows 10 updates, I'll see if I can find it...

How to automatically under-volt in XTU without opening it
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ithout-opening-it.802143/page-9#post-10659462

 

You will be a great scrip-writer once day.