280m SLI?

hi there im new to this forums but i figure its the place to look for info and help

I'm looking to make a good investment into a laptop strictly for gaming purposes and i was researching into what would be the best gpu at this time to get.

I noticed that most reviews suggest the nvidia 280m over a ati 4870(correct me if i'm wrong please not sure due to crossfire)

But now i see talks about the 280m sli can someone explain if this is better than the crossfire or if it is even better than just a 280m? Also ive been looking on sites such as xoticpc.com and they have no machines with the 280m sli. Does anyone have an estimated availability on it ?

From what i gather sli means more than 1 gpu ? again correct me if im wrong im just looking at getting my money's worth that will last me some good time

Any feedback would be most appreciated

 

On notebooks SLI and Crossfire mean 2 GPUs for nVidia and ATI, respectively. The Crossfire HD 4870 GDDR5 is supposedly the best, but only the GDDR3 version has been released. The GTX 280M SLI should be a bit better than the GDDR3 Crossfire HD 4870 though. Alienware's new machine uses GTX 280M SLI and I think there is one other model but it escapes me ATM.

 

The 4870 is available in crossfire (2 GPU's) in the Asus W90 for $2,300.

If you want the Nvidia 280's in SLI save up about $3k and plan on it still getting spanked by the W90. You'll also need to wait a few more months as currently their notebooks aren't out and most pre orders have been gobbled up.

 

If you want the notebook that uses 280M in SLI, you can go to eurocom as they used to have it, but I don't know about them now...

 

Welcome to the forums Daximus!

Not true,

The $2300 base model w90 includes a slow processor. Add the QX9300 processor and you're already over $3000.

The w90 isn't even remotely capable of spanking 280M GTX's in SLI.

The 280M GTX's in SLI will be head and shoulders above the 4870's in the w90.

The 4870's in the w90 are actually 4850's and only have DDR3. When 4870's with DDR5 are released the performance gap will narrow with the 280's but they will still be behind.

The new Alienware M17X should be available in a few days. You can equip. this laptop with dual 280M GTX's in SLI.

 

I still think ATi out preforms nvidia.. The 4850 preforms just as good as the GTX 280m in gaming..

 

The gtx 280m sli will definitely be better than the 4850 in my opinion. I know for sure that the new clevo 18.4" will have the 280m sli.

 

I didnt say SLi I ment card for card the 4850 preforms just as good if not better than the GTX 280m..

 

The Alienware @ $1800 base comes with a core 2 duo processor and an Nvidia 260. It's a competitor to an Asus G71. This thing won't even start to compete with the W90 until you double it's price in upgrades.

I'm sorry but ATI is clearly winning this round against Nvidia. I think the release of the 4860 will show how completely behind Nvidia actually is when it comes to advancements in GPU's.

 

ROFL LMAO!!

You did say that to entertain us right?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

This is where benchmarks come in. I'm still waiting for a single 4870 result in DMC4 @1680x1050.

 

I dont think we have any reason to believe one is better then the other when we cant bench either yet

saying nvidia with no backup is speculation

 

Take a look at a single 4870M vs a single 280M GTX.

You can draw your own conclusions from there.

 

No it doesn't... Especially in some games there will be a pretty significant difference between the two.

 

It's not a significant difference, but I have yet to see any game benchmark comparison besides the stock 4870 x2 in the W90 only being ~29% faster than my overclocked 280M in DMC4 @1080p. Even overclocked with a better driver if available, it's unlikely it'd be more than 35% faster. The 4870 x2 will prove its worth when AA is added I'm sure, but so will the sli 280M.

DMC4 is traditionally the best GPU comparison because it doesn't favor either architecture and the CPU has little effect on the score.

Anyway, throw me an overclocked single 4870 or 4850 score of DMC4 @1680 x 1050, DX10, "super high" settings. Then we'll know the winner!

 

I'll laugh when you spend $4k to compete with a $2300 laptop.

 

as far as i am aware the only 4870 out is really a 4850, waiting for the AW 4870 ddr5 then we can compare really

 

Amen to that!! ATi FTW!!

 

I'm going to wait to post in this thread again once the 208M GTX rig is out and the results are in so I can LMAO again!

Thankfully we at least have ATI and Nvidia to push eachother. Too bad there aren't more.

 

Just as a 9800M GTX is still similar in performance to a 280M GTX. A sli setup 9800M GTX overclocked most probably performs the same, or better, than sli 280M GTX.

Both Ati HD4870 Crossfire and 9800M GTX have similar performance. There is no reason a 280M GTX sli will be miles better at all. If something, it still have the same architecture thus having the same weakneses.

Also, DMC4 is not really any indication, and no benchmark is, because all games are different. In the end, they will both be in similar performance.

Anyways, the W90 may have overclocked HD4850s, but that is powerful enough. And if 3dmark vantage shows something, the single GPU 280M score and single ATi HD4870 on the W90 have very similar scores of 6k+

 

The Clevo/Sager laptop with dual GTX 280m GPUs is called the Clevo M980NU. It's not out yet. I'm not sure when it's supposed to be. Given the great reputation Sager/Clevo have for cooling, it's unlikely it will get extremely warm when gaming on dual 280m GPUs in that thing. That's not to say that the new AW M17x will melt, but hey given what happened in the m15x...

 

My whole point is that Nvidia can't come close to competing with ATI at any reasonable price point.

I understand that the extreme gaming laptop is a unique segment but this gap is so huge it cannot be ignored.

 

For me, I don't care what the price is (within reason of course) as long as it performs best for my needs.

If the two brands are even or at least close, I'll take the Nvidia offerings due to less CPU dependency and better driver support for mobile users.

Lest we forget CUDA and Physics.

 

So those $800-900 Asus's with 9800M GS mean nothing to you? Best bang for the buck in a laptop, period.

 

I believe this topic was discussing dual GPU extreme gaming laptops. I'm confused how you see the value in the Asus G50 series and somehow you ignore the point when it comes to the W90.

 

So those $800-900 Asus's with 9800M GS mean nothing to you? Best bang for the buck in a laptop, period.

So were you just being vague or am I right?

 

Because no one here seems to have any proof in any matter what so ever. I decided that I would throw some logic into this "pre-flamewar". Take a look at the link below.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Graphic-Cards.130.0.html
As you can see currently the ati crossfire 4870x2 is currently the leader (im not counting the 280x2 because it is currently not out and thus there are no realistic benches for it.) Anyway, then i would like to point your attention to the the nvidia 280m gtx (single) as you can see no other single gpu beats it. Now logic would dictate that because the 280(single) beats the 4870(single), that when the sli 280's are released they will be above the current ati 4870x2. Now as i can see it ati is loved for there good prices, and there is nothing wrong with that. I love amd over intel (at least in the desktop market). It would seem that nvidia has constantly had a tad upper hand to ati's cards, but at the cost of...well price.


And to answer the original posters question, because no one else seems to have remembered the whole "no jacking threads" rule, it depends. Because the sli 280's are not out and there prices are not determined it is unclear as which YOU should go with. It could end up being that the sli 280's are the most innovative things to happen to grapics since circles were able to be rendered by computers, but they may cost 4000$+ in which case it may not be for you. And the only way to accurately test gpu v gpu, is to have a controlled test. One in which the only variable is the gpu itself and this cannot happen until the sli 280's are released. So if you are still debating i would recommend you wait for some benches and then decide which is best for your needs. But if you want current top of the line and really want a crossfire/sli then go with the 4870x2's.

Thats my shpeal.
take it or leave it.
love it or hate it.

-Cheers

 

Both Ati and Nvidia are dependent on CPU. This "CPU depenencey" of ATi that roams in forums is just at synthetic benchmarks, you know, not actual games, because in actual games, both require CPU until certain resolutions.

CUDA and physics are almost useless for now, and they hardly are being used in games. By the time games actually benefit from GPU physics, most probably ATi will also have its own solution to it. The only game I have right now that uses GPU physics is Mirrors Edge, and I run it better with physics disabled.

As for better driver support, all I can tell you is that Ati takes a while to release new drivers, but with each itteration, we get the decent boost in performance.

With Nvidia we get drivers, for what it seems every freaking day, and most of the time we hardly see an improvement, and even sometimes we have decreased performance. It takes several drivers before we see the decent boost in performance. There is a reason while a lot are still using old drivers for their great performance and skip new ones. I fail to see how they have that much better support. In both cases, both vendors have great drivers.

The 900dlrs Asus G50 is a great deal no doubt, but they can easily make a similar ATi laptop. I suspect they are waiting until they release HD4860 (which is quite more powerful than 9800M GS and GTS). But as far as cheap gaming laptops, this is a great deal.

The nearest competitor as a deal would be the MSI with an HD4670 for 700dlrs. That thing performs almost like a 9700M GTS, and it is very cheap. another great deal!

I like both ati and Nvidia, but Nvidia really dissapointed me with their new GPUs. Mainly because they are not really new, nor they really perform that much better at all. They put the 280 series name to shame, because their desktop counterparts are amazing. I expected something better, which is why I don't see the love for these GPUs at all.

 

I don't see how you can repeatedly make this claim when there are no actual benchmarks comparing the two. Also, I've explained again and again that simple reasoning shows that the GDDR5 4870 should be ahead of the 280M. See this thread. Of course, I'm not 100% positive it will be the case, but you talk like the 280M is faster by default.

EDIT: I also strongly agree with ryzeki regarding CUDA and physics. Currently they are nearly useless for most people, and by the time GPU-powered physics becomes mainstream in games, ATI obviously will not let itself fall way behind.

 

9800's are a previous generation. I'm sorry but I thought we were having a debate on the current new generation cards out from ATI and Nvidia. How about we compare current products hmm?

 

The only two mobile cards that are available are the 280m GTX and the 4870 w DDR3. Those are the only specs and benchmarks we have that actually exist.

Saying how powerful the 4870m w/DDR5 is going to be is 100% speculation that cannot be verified.

You can however, look at actual results of the 280m GTX and the 4870 m w/DDR3.

 

Nvidia has no new products out except the 280m which architecturally is the same as the previous generation. The 9800gs exists in this "new" generate as the GTS 150/160, its all just rebadged. So the argument I feel is valid, ATI on the other hand is introducing a new architecture with their 4k series parts.

 

9800 GS isn't as old as you think it is. It and the 9800M GTS were silently switched to 55nm fabrication mid production, kind of like the desktop gts 250 had a smaller PCB. G80 has come a long way. 4870 core isn't exactly new, it came out last summer, and we still haven't seen the complete version. And I haven't heard anything new about 4860 either, other than some tech reports.

Mobile GT200 was never going to happen, so don't go there. Such a large core would never make do. 40nm is ways away, and GDDR5 4870 doesn't seem to be happening with the M17, so this is what we got. DDR3 4870, or GTX 280M.

Yeah the W90 is inexpensive for what you get. But it's June now and we're still going through reliabilty issues with that machine? I like it, but it hasn't proven a stable platform yet. Call me ignorant, but I think the old G80-G92b rehash is still doing its job. The old tech is keeping in toe with new tech, and beating it in some if not most regards.

 

That is precisely what I'm saying. But you just claimed that the GDDR5 4870 is slower than the 280M.

 

lets face it...your 4870/4850 what ever card aint beating me and im running 9800m gtx's. the proof is all over the forums. i think im losing at about 3 test thus far and as far as games...im losing at dmc4 with 8x msaa. no aa im winning all those rounds as well.

i've benched against them all thus far...and they have yet to flat out post 100 percent marks beating me. although i did get beat at single card gpu test in vantage mark. sorry but that $2200 aint beating me nor is the $3000 version of it. and it's not about bragging it's about what we found out...

and all this talk about gddr5 is pretty silly really...byt the time they finally do come with this alleged 6 month behind schedule card..nvidia will have one..then what will be the next excuse? they never said the single version of the card was to have gddr5 memory to begin with..that was a bunch of people on a wishful thinking mission. these aint desktop cards no matter how hard you wish they we're, so they dont follow the same lines as a desktop card. no matter how hard you wish it to.


and as of today..that is the vantage dual gpu world record. and since the 280m's are more powerful than these 9800m gtx's.....then the score can only go up from here...

 

wow,
I didnt think i would get this much feedback >.< but i appreciate it. I'd like to say that ive had a chance to own both ati and nvidia card in the past and i can recall them having thier own problems ( ati-micro stuttering ..or so it was explained to me and nvidia- heating issues in laptops) but in terms of performance i think the last post just above this one sealed it away for me. ill wait for 280sli and use that. In looking at all the comparisons i think its safe to say that if ati's dual card is only just above the 280 single by not much the 280 sli is gonna take it up a notch. And ya know what, that card(280sli) should last me some time so if ati brings some new big bad card just to save themselves ( cuz again from the info here and other sources nvidia always seems a couple steps ahead) thats fine by me .

Again thank you everyone for your input =)
oh feel free to try and change my mind cuz as much as i like nvidia i love even more having the best available

 

We prefer games with aa ^^

I prefer lower res as it eases the games to be honest .

I would suggest signle cards rather then sli (its not like you get twice the performance)

Since my laptop has been in repair, i've been using a lower end 8600m gt, and its performance is really good (i know its not anywhere close to these), but either way the performance of a single 4850 (that i use) has blown away my experience with anything else, crysis dx10 on full with no lag, farcry 2 maxed out, no overclocking at all. (mainly due to lower native res)

Both makes are great, one other side to this is the fact that NVIDIA releases drivers fluently while ATI, well speak for themselves, sometimes the community has to mod the desktop GPU drivers which is a shame but ATI are picking up the slack a bit with w7 release.

Im also uncertain about GDDR5 as john quotes, its a bit silly, could you even bottle neck the cards memory clock against its core? I dont know how GPU tech works but i haven't noticed special performace when changing memory clocks so im regarding it as nothing special.

 

it's something special.
your memory can now run at 5 to 7 ghz instead of 900 mhz..
better for over clocking and all....people seem to think because the mobile cards dont have gdd5 memory that it's not a real 4870..and then that only started a few months ago. because before that...people we're saying the 4870's we're killing everyone...now it's like..."they don't have gddr5 memory so it's no longer a 4870. even though asus and ati say it is" but have plenty to say about this g92 being reused over and over and over again..yet...it seems to be keeping ati at bay...which i don't really understand. new tech should be killing 3 year old nvidia g92, but yet it isn't....and a few fps is not my idea of killing it. this is the main debate about gddr5 memory.... but as of today..june 1st, 2009. the 9800m gtx is beating it in about 80 percent of the testing going on....the jury is still out on the 280m till we get an enthusiast with a highend setup...sorry, but the base model wont be breaking a lot of records..nothing personal...

 

My point being, until it is actually in a machine and can be tested it has a score of zero. Yes, once it's out, it should at least be one of the top 3 or 4 cards.

Speculation is fun but it is by no means factual. Making an "educated" guess by looking at the proposed specs is still a guess. Look at all the speculation about how much improvement there will be with DDR5 over DDR3. Truth is, we don't know how much improvement there will be. I've see guesses range from 5% to 40%. Someone is right, but who?

I hope the 4870m w/DDR5 will achieve stellar results. But right now, the only thing we know for sure, is that it should be faster than the 4870m w/DDR3.

 

bah, the fanboys come out of the woodwork eh?

Anyways, the GTX 280M should perform better than the Mobility 4870. You're basically comparing an underclocked 9800 GTX+ with an underclocked 4850. Only difference is that the GTX 280M has 1gb vs the 512mb in the Mobility 4870 per card. Thus, when maxxing out your settings the GTX 280M should do better with the extra VRAM. FarCry 2, DMC4 and other games show this VRAM benefit.

However, there are instances in which the ATi cards perform better than the nVidia card. Although it has less VRAM per card, it performs better in certain games and when in-game anti-aliasing is enabled (4x and 8x). So the better card between the two depends on how you want to run your game and which game you play.

 

No fanboy here ichime. lol

I'll go wth whatever performs best for me.

Right now I've got the 3870's in Xfire and I'm very pleased with them.

 

4870 wins fallout, stalker, and vantage (single gpu). 280M wins everything else, and sli 280m beats cf 4870 in vantage.

 

What effects would having memory' that archive ghz speeds have though? And would it be massively visible.

Also as reference to crossfire issues, just run some of the more stable drivers for cross fire, or cross reference the driver installations manually (from other operating systems)

Ive seen windows 7 have no fault on the system that i am using, but i am not a crossfire user so i am unsure when it comes to that. (and they've released alot of drivers for w7 with ati cards quite fast)

I think its awesome some of the older cores are still up to date with today, and not slacking behind either, lets hope there are no drastic changes to graphic processing.


"I would suggest signle cards rather then sli (its not like you get twice the performance)
yeah...that's not true either"

Could you show me a case where you will get full SLI usage? (rather then running two independent apps)

This would change my oppinions on it alot.

Thanks
Cata

 

Vantage is at least 90% (sli returns).

 

Nope, you won't get twice the performance, but you will get increased performance. It's like any other tech. If you want the fastest solution you're gonna have to pay for it.

SLI isn't for everyone, you can have a great gaming experience with one GPU.

I would prefer it if a graphics card came out that was more powerful or equal in performance as the current SLI and Xfire solutions.

I'm not trying to sell you on dual cards. If you pick one of the best single cards, it's likely you'll have a great gaming experience. It all depends on what you expect out of a gaming laptop.

 

k hold on now ....
i play games like wow, crisis ( and crisis warhead), Fallout3, Command and Conquer RA3, bioshock, mirror's edge etc.
what would work for me ? just having a single ? or considering the scale of demand in the games listed does it make sense to get a dual gpu ?

 

Well for Crysis you'll definitely see an improvement with dual GPU's. There's not a single mobile GPU out right now that can handle Crysis at 1920x1200, all very high with no custom tweaks, and achieve over 30fps average. The rest of those games are also pretty demanding.

 

All of the games you mention can be played with one of the top single GPU solutions.

It all depends on how high you want the settings and what kind of frame rates you want.

Going with SLI or Xfire with top cards of course will allow for higher settings and higher framerates as well as being more futureproof.

Basically, whatever provides the most powerful solution, also provides the highest settings,highest framerates, and a longer life cycle.

How much can you afford and what do you want/expect?

 

i think in terms of spending limit ive capped myself at about 4-5k? i figure when i buy something of this nature it should last and work smoothly. Now by smoothly i mean i want to see things clearly no "edging" ( i guess that would be AA? ) in terms of fps i hear that 70fps is a great place to be with alot of games ...

haha given what i just wrote i suppose i leave myself with pretty much the option of getting a high end card huh ?...

 

With that kind of budget you can buy any laptop you want. You can go for the new Alienware with dual 280M's or get a Clevo with i7 if need the processing power for other things. There's no way you'll get 70fps in Crysis at high res and settings no matter what laptop you buy, but it'll still be totally playable along with all the other games you mentioned.