7950 GTX w/XP or 8600M GT w/Vista?

I would wait a year to buy a laptop until the "8800M GTX" comes out and DX 10.1 is released, however I needed to replace my 3 year old Dell Inspiron 8600. After this purchase I won’t be able to buy another laptop for 3 more years. I went ahead and purchased a Dell Inspiron 1520 w/ a T7500 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, NVidia 8600M GT w/ 256 MB RAM (DDR2?), a 160 GB 7200 RPM HD, 4 GB RAM, and Vista Home Premium.

I ran 3DMark06 on the 1520 and came up with a score of 2687 3D Marks. I previously tested an Inspiron 1720 w/ a 7900 GS GPU and had a Vista Graphics score of 5.9. The Inspiron 1520 w/ the 8600M GT had a Vista Graphics score of 4.6. I also wasn’t impressed with the performance of the 8600M GT with current games, as an example I had to set all the options on “Dawn of War Dark Crusade” set to mid in order to get good frame rates. Why did NVidia go with 128-bit on the 8600 instead of 256-bit? I’m sure that would have improved performance considerably. The 8600M GT seems like the weak link on my system.

I'm considering returning the Inspiron 1520 and purchasing a Dell XPS 1710 w/ a 7950 GTX and Windows XP. I'll have to deal with DX 10+ incompatibility, but at least I'll be able to play current games at max settings. It seems like the 8600M GT has mediocre performance with current games, and it will be obsolete with DX 10.1 anyways.

Would I be better off returning the 1520 and purchasing the XPS, or should I just accept mediocre performance and keep the 1520? If I do purchase a XPS w/ Windows XP, can it use 4 GB RAM or is 2 GB the max for XP?

 

it's 2 completely different systems, so you'll have to figure out how much you want to spend and what you'll want to use the machine for

XP and Vista 32 bit both handle 2 (and 3) GB RAM
XP and Vista 64 bit both handle +3 GB RAM

32 bit OS handle +3 GB RAM, but you just won't use about 1GB

 

That's because the 8600M GT is using (for most of them) DDR2 800 rather than GDDR3 1400 wich is the official nvidia's specs. So yeah it lower the score & gaming performances A LOT

Like you can see on the desktop version benchmarks, the 128bit bus is not that bad, since the shaders are working very well on it, it still manage to do a better use of its memory than the 7800GTX wich has GDDR3 1200 on a 256bit bus

Oh and, DX10.1 is nothing, just makes some things that are ALREADY in DX10.0 a bit better and will feature DX10.1 sound system (current is DX8.1) in wich you'll need a DX10.1 sound card anyway

 

With the 7600s, they had a 64 bit crippled version and a 128 bit version. With the 8600, they have upped the crippled version to a 128 bit bus (8600m gs) and found other ways to improve the gt version: increasing shader power.

no midrange (laptop) gpu has ever had a 256 bit bus. ever.

It doesn't compete with a 7950gtx and isn't designed to. It's designed to compete with the hd 2600 xt and replace the x1600 / go 7600.

The only real question you should ask is this:

Is gaming performance or portability my primary concern?

the 7950 gtx is for the former, the 8600m gt is catered to the latter.

 

DX10.1 DOES NOT MAKE THE 8 series obsolete!!! Lol and people wondered why I made that thread. 128 bit makes the cards a good amount cheaper then they are right now. Also your inspiron has the ddr2 version of the card which is significantly less powerful then the gddr3 version.

 

From reading all the posts on this forum it seems like a bad time to buy a laptop if you're into gaming. It seems like you lose either way with the 7950 GTX or the 8600M GT. It's frustrating to dump thousands of dollars down on a system that's outdated in a few months.

I purchased the Dell Inspiron 1520 for just over $3,000, which is a lot to pay for a system that has mediocre game performance. The 8600M GT was really disappointing even with DX 9 games.

I priced out a Dell XPS 1710 w/XP, the 7950 GTX, 2G RAM, and a 200 GB 7200 HD for $3,700, which seems too much to pay for a system that will be obsolete in a year.

Perhaps I should have purchased a refurbished system or rented a laptop until the NVidia 8M series cards and DX 10/10.1 settled down...

I don't understand why NVidia couldn't have released a high end 256+ bit 8-series card first and addressed the mid-range cards later. It seems like quite a few laptop gamers are in a no-win situation until things stabilize next year...

Are 15.4" laptops limited to 128-bit GPUs anyways?

In regards to the ddr2/ddr3 8600Ms: Is it Dell that decided to go with the ddr2 version, or it it the availability of ddr3 8600Ms?

 

Why didn't they release a 8800 yet? Because they can't make it fit into a laptop and make it run on a battery

$3000 for a Inspiron, that's steal!!!!! Did you take the completly useless 4GB of RAM for $900?


The 8600M GT GDDR3 1400 & the 8700M GT peforms way better.

 

insprion for 3000??!?!?!? Where in the world are you purchasing your system from? No settling down really Dx10.1 is a minor update, it really doesn't do much some slight improvements and it all dx10 hardware will work with dx10.1.

You can try the asus c90, it has an upgradeable gpu or the clevo d900c which you can upgrade to the 8800 when it comes out. There is another sager model can't think of that does that too. I have no idea why your insipron is 3k when the most powerful laptop in the world the clevo d900 you can get with dual 7950s for around 3-3.5k.

 

He took 4GB of RAM, wich dell wanted +$900 not so long ago

 

if you want a small 15" laptop that can play games, its a good time to buy. I would still recommend the gddr3 version which does much better than Dell's gpu. The memory is clocked like 75% faster (which increases the memory bandwidth by 75%)

if you want a 17" "gaming laptop" (notice the difference in terminology) its probably not a good time to get it. You should wait until a 17" gpu comes, because the 7950gtx is ridiculously old now. (Old in the sense that it has been around forever)

 

How many people do you know that have one high end video card on a notebook?
Is from the midrange cards that ati and nvidia make money. below there's low margin and above low sales.

 

Well he can the clevo with 8700. The 8700 while not quite a 8800 is pretty good and I am impressed with its low heat ouput or maybe thats just the toshibas cooling.

 

It was $338 to go from 2GB to 4GB RAM. I usually try to build a system that will last for 3 years. Even if I can't use all the RAM now I would rather not have to upgrade.

Is the GPU on the Sager definitely upgrade-able? (I can't get a hold of the Sager sales staff until Monday) The price beats the Dell XPS, and if the GPU can be upgraded that's another plus. Is the quality on Sager is a good as Dell?

I priced a Sager NP5790 for $2,629 w/ a T7500 2.2 GHz, 7950 GTX, 200MB 7200 HD, 2G RAM.

I also priced a Sager NP9260 for $3,004 w/ a E6700 2.66 GHz, 7950 GTX, 200MB 7200 HD, 2G RAM. I saw Chaz's review...The 9260 is so big I'm not sure if it's practical.

I was looking for a balance between gaming and portability. What's the best 15.4" gaming laptop? Or should I forget a 15.4" and just go with a 17"?

I'm happy with the Inspiron 1520 except for the 8600M GT. Why would Dell go with ddr2 on the 8600 rather than ddr3?

 

I personall dislike dells because of their less their impressive quality record and their terrible customer service. Yes, there is no way you should get an inspiron for 3k when you could get an asus c90 for 1800-2000 fully pimped out or get a 3000k clevo/sager laptop. Sager np5790 or sager 9260.

xoticpc.com I think is the main source for sager laptops used.

Also don't quote me on this don't think the np5790 is upgradeably only the asus c90 and the sager 9260.

 

I also priced a Sager NP2090 for $2314 with a T7700 2.4GHz, 8600M GT 512 ddr2, 4GB RAM, 200GB 7200 HD. That's considerably cheaper than the Dell Inspiron 1520, although it seems Sager is using the DDR2 8600M GT on their 15.4" as well.

Is the DDR3 RAM available on 15.4" laptop GPUs? Would the 512MB DDR2 on the 8600M GT be as fast as a 256MB DDR3 8600M GT?

 

The GDDR3 one will always be better since t has almost 2x the bandwith (800mhz versus 1400mhz)

The only GDDR3 1400 8600M I can think off right now are the Asus G1S/G2S and the macbookpro

The 8700M GT has the same clocks as the XFX 8600GTXXX and it performs about it. The 8700M GT has also the same codename as the rumored 8800M GS. Wich is NBSE-GS G84 revision 409.11

 

I don't want a Macbook. I checked out the Asus G1S which is only available from retailers, and none of the features can be customized (you're stuck with a 160 MB5400 RPM HD).

I didn't find any 15.4" laptops with the 8700M GT, so it appears the DDR2 8600M GT will have to do for anyone who wants a 15.4" laptop that can be customized. The best GPU I could find on a 15.4" was the 512MB DDR2 8600M GT on the Sager NP2090.

The "8800M" will probably be a 17"+ only GPU, so the 8600M might be the top of the line for 15.4" laptops until the NVidia 9M-series comes out sometime next year. I was reading another post on this forum that said 15.4" laptops can never take a 256-bit GPU anyways.

If I was going to purchase a 17" I would probably wait for the "8800M" or a 256-384 bit equivalent. The 7950 GTX will be obsolete soon, and the 8700 will be underpowered in 6 months.

In regards to 4GB RAM with 32-bit Vista: My NVidia control panel says that the 8600M GT has 1023MB total available graphics memory with 256 MB dedicated and 767 MB shared system memory. Wouldn't 2GB RAM slow the system down with the shared system memory? Doesn't it help to have the extra RAM, even in 32-bit Vista?

Responding to vshade: "How many people do you know that have one high end video card on a notebook?
Is from the midrange cards that ati and nvidia make money. below there's low margin and above low sales." My wife has a laptop from work and she doesn't even know or care what GPU it has, she just want's it to run Powerpoint, Word, etc. (it actually has an integrated GPU). People are using laptops mostly for either business/school or gaming. If you're a laptop gamer you want a GPU that will run games at mid-high setting for at least a couple of years before you have to buy another laptop. With that in mind it appears the 8600M GT was aimed at gamers who will never be able to afford a "8800M GTX" or equivalent, and who just want to be able to run games at low-mid settings on a 15.4" laptop. Anyone who wants a new laptop that will run DX 10 games for 2+ years at mid-high settings is in limbo until NVidia releases the "8800M GTX."

 

i went for a Clevo M570RU with a 7950 GTX because i can be upgrade next year when game will have greater dx10 performance

 

I'd like to know how someone managed to spend $3,000 on an inspiron, the one in my sig was only $1,200.

If you have $3000 to spend on a laptop, you can do so much better then a maxed out inspiron, the main advantage to Dell is that if you mess around with the different configurations, coupons, prices, etc... you can get a Vostro or Inspiron for really cheap. But for $3,000, holy crap you could have maxed out a c90.

 

c90 maxes out for alot cheaper then 3k. You can max it out for about 2k.

 

What's a good retailer for a customized Asus C90?

It appears that quite a few people have Dell Inspiron 1520s. Why are so many people buying Inspirons if other laptops from Sager, Asus, etc are so much better?

My inspiron was $2816 total with the following specs:

Inspiron 1520, Intel Core 2 Duo T7500, 2.2GHz, 800Mhz, 4M L2 Cache $2589.00
Alpine White Color with Gloss Finish $0.00
4GB, DDR2, 667MHz 2 Dimm $0.00
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch display (1680x1050) $0.00
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT $0.00
160G 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive $0.00
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition, English $0.00
Integrated 10/100 Network Cardand Modem, for Inspiron $0.00
8X DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive $0.00
Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy $0.00
Intel 4965AGN Wireless-N Mini Card $0.00
Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam $0.00
Creative Earbud EP630 $0.00
Promotional security package with service $0.00
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery, for Inspiron 1520 $0.00
Microsoft Office 2007 Small Business Edition $0.00
Network Associates McAfee 8.0 English, 3-Year Subscription $0.00
DataSafe Online Dim/Ins/XPS $0.00
DataSafe Online 10GB for Dim/Ins/XPS $0.00
Year Limited Warranty $0.00
Warranty Support,2 Year Extended $0.00
Warranty Support,Initial Year $0.00
CompleteCare Accidental DamageProtection, Inspiron, 3 Year $0.00
1 yr Automated PC Tune Up $19
Dell On Call, 13 months Extended, 5 Incidents{POS} $100
Bundle LoJack Theft Recovery Service - 3 Year $20
Insp Datasafe 10GB,1YR,DHS $19
Dell Support and PC Tune-up 1YR $0.00
Type 15- Third Party At Home Service with Nights and Week ends, 24x7 Technical Support, 2 Year Extended $0.00
Dell Hardware Warranty PlusOnsite Service, Extended Year $0.00
Type 15- Third Party At HomeService with Nights and Weekends, 24x7 Technical Support,Initial Year $0.00
Dell Hardware Warranty PlusOnsite Service, Initial Year $0.00
Dell On Call, 30 Days, Getting Started Assistance, Unlimited Incidents{POS} $49
Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Mod $20
Alpine White color w/ 2.0M pixel Camera $0.00Windows Vista Premium System $0.00
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor $0.00
No Preinstalled Software $0.00
Special Offer $100 off (included in price) $0.00

 

1toppc.com is where I bought my c90 from. gentech is their official name, thats the adress for their laptop website.

 

Because, unlike you, our inspirons are usually hundreds less then same specced laptops from other retailers.

 

The C90 on Gentech has the 512MB 8600M GT, although it doesn't say if it's DDR 2 or 3. They only offer up to a 160 GB 5400 RPM HD, and only up to 3GB RAM. Isn't the E6700 processor on the C90 made for a desktop? Doesn't it run hot and suck a lot of power?

If the C90 is a 15.4", what GPU will you be upgrading to? The someday to be released "9600M GT"? Where would you purchase a seperate laptop GPU when you're ready to upgrade?

 

its the ddr2. Only computers with gddr3 8600 is asus g1 and macbook pro. 3gb ram is the limiting factor of the chipset and os combination. Basically 3 gb is the limit and I don't want to get into all the details of that. I don't even know why someone would need 4 gigs, I have 2 gigs and am under intense gaming and vista no problems. They have 7200 rpms and they have an option for the 250 gb 5400 rpm.

C90s battery life is 1 hr 40 min to 1 hr 55 min under power saving mode. Its cpu performance blows away and santa rosa laptop by a good margin. heat is not that big of a deal because of the fans on the back (turbo engine). On standard overclocking, or gaming mode, it gets hot enough so you can't put it on your lap unless you are wearing jeans.

The next gpu will be the ati 2600 since asus has already put up drivers for it on their site. No word on when. Asus will probably, dont quote me on this, ship these cards to resellers for our purchase, they will find a way. I believe the c90 will get the 8800 or its equivalent. under they key parts list 5 cards were listed but all under codenames so we don't know which they are.

 

the 7600gs is 128-bit not 64-bit. i have the 7600gs and thb its not THAT much better than my DDR2 8600gt.

 

So where did I go wrong in the Inspiron I configured in the previous post?

I just priced out another Inspiron 1520 w/ the T7500 2.2 GHz, 160 GB 7200 RPM HD, 3GB RAM, 8600M GT, no service + support or damage protection, and no productivity software for $1,943.

I could save a few hundred more dollars by dropping down to 2GB RAM, a 120 GB HD, and a 2GHz processor, however I don't know if the system will last 3+ years for work and gaming if I cut too much. I would rather spend a little extra and get a system that will last a while.

 

To summarize what I have learned regarding my initial questions (please correct me if I am wrong):

-Don't buy a 7950 GTX, as it will be obsolete next year.
-The 8700M GT is currently the best DX 10 GPU, although there are no 15.4" laptops with it. It will be underpowered in 6 months when the "8800M" comes out, therefore you're better off waiting for a gaming 17" laptop.
-The 512 MB DDR3 8600M GT is the best GPU for 15.4" laptops, although it is only offered in the Macbook and the Asus G1. This will probably be the best GPU for 15.4" laptops until the "9-series" GPUs are released next year.
-DX 10.1 won't change anything significant or make the 8M series cards obsolete.

 

It's 256MB GDDR3, not 512 MB DDR3

 

Actually the 7950GTX (the fastest card for notebooks atm) will most probably be very useful for gaming for the next 2-3 years since games nowadays are using and will be using DX9 for around 2+ years instead of DX10 only. So until the majority of people have DX10 cards, games are more likely to be playable on a DX9 card with better performance...

And also, if you do buy a Sager NP5790 or NP9260 with the 7950GTX or 8700M GT, you can easily upgrade and put in another new high-end DX10 graphics card later. Since they are the only 2 notebooks on earth that can let you upgrade to high-end graphics cards. Even though the C90 is also upgradeable you cannot put in another high-end card in it because of the power consumption and the heat...

 

^ Not so, I believe the c90 will get an 8800 or its equivalent.

 

Yea but I think the C90 is getting a "dumb down" version of the 8800 (ie. less power consumption and less heat with a loss of performance comparing to the real high-end version of 8800)... Since none of these cards are out yet, this is only my personal prediction and I could be wrong...

 

Any1 could be wrong including me at this point. Nonetheless even if the c90 doesn't get the most powerful 8800 as an upgrade, even if it gets an 8800 it will be the first 15.4 inch with a high end card and thats a good enough upgrade for me.

 

Asus G1s is available from XoticPC and is customizable. It will still come out cheaper from XoticPC with all the upgrades along with the performance boost you will get compared to your 1520.

 

If you can hold out just a bit the 8700 Ultra's will be out. Eurocom will more than likely be the 1st to offer them. They will = or surpass the 7950GTX's, and will be DX10.

They will be available in MXM format so the M570RU's and D901C's should be able to use them.

 

Geforce 8700 ultra on google linked to no revelant links.

The 8700 uses the G84 so a 8700 ultra would be about a 8600GTS at his maximum

Oh and, since the 8700 GT consumes 35W, I have big doubts in a 8800 coming in MXM II...

 

Would I really be that much better off trading in an Inspiron 1520 for an Asus G1S just to get the 512 MB GDDR3 8600M GT? I would save a little money as well, but would Asus have as good quality+support?

Why are Asus and Mac the only ones using the better 8600?

The Sager NP5790 w/ the 8700M GT also looks like a good choice for a 17" laptop. I can't believe Dell is using the 256MB 8600M GT in the 17" Inspiron over the 8700M GT.

 

There is absolutely no reason to pay more for the 1520 than the Asus G1s. If you're paying that much, you should get the Asus. Support will be better, overall quality of product will be better, performance will be better.

GDDR3 VRAM is significantly more expensive than DDR2 VRAM. Asus and Apple must have been the only manufacturers willing to set their price high enough to make it worth it.

Yes, the Sager is a much better 17" choice than the Dell.

 

I agree with odin243. I would see and ASUS laptop as a trade up over a Dell and I don't see them as having worse quality or support. Besides, with an ASUS, if you buy through a physical store retailer, you'll be able to talk to them face to face for some support rather than just dealing with things over the phone.

In terms of why Apple and ASUS use GDDR3, they probably get very good prices for it. ASUS manufactures a whole bunch of desktop graphics cards so skimming a few chips over to their laptops probably doesn't but a dent in their memory chip orders. Similarly, Apple has large contracts with flash memory makers for their iPod and iPhone and I'm sure they have a very lucrative contract so I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung threw in some GDDR3 chips with every flash order.

EDIT: I noticed in a previous post you said the G1S wasn't customizable. It would depend on which reseller you're looking at. I've talked with MilestonePC before and they are very helpful. They offer the G1S with a variety of configuration options.

This is the US G1S link:

http://www.milestonepc.com/states/product_info.php?cPath=87_82&products_id=1505

Configure the RAM, hard drive and OS to whatever you want. You should probably contact them to see how different component choices effect delivery time and such. You should probably ask them how it effects warranty as well.

I'm sure there are many other retailers that would be open to customizing it for you too.

 

The full name is 8700GTX (Ultra), reason for it not being easily googleble is that it isn't out yet. Nvidia will introduce 8700GTX (ultra) early next year with performance matching 8800.

This is from here.

Eurocom is always a bit ahead. So don't think a 8700 ultra will be = to a 8600GTS lol.

 

Also, to whoever asked this question, no, of course the 8700GTX won't come in MXM-II. However, it will fit in the MXM-IV (HE) slot in the Clevo's.

 

the 8700 in the M570RU is a MXM-III
the 7950 in the M570RU is a MXM-IV

imo, that leaves a bit room to play (read: expect an 8800 to fit )

 

So the 8600M GT with GDDR 3 would be a dramatic improvement over the GDDR2 8600M GT? How much better is the 8700M GT over the GDDR3 8600M GT?

Is the speed improvement in the GDDR3 memory the equivalent of having a "256-bit" GDDR2 8600M GT?

I'm sure the "8700M Ultra" or "8800M GTX" would be awesome, however I'm sure it's going to be expensive and I don't want to wait 6 more months to replace my laptop. I was looking for a GPU that will run all current games at high settings, and DX 10 games at medium settings for the next 2-3 years.

Which of the following 3 system looks like the better portable gaming laptop? (I'm assuming they all have GPUs that can be upgraded?) I was leaning towards the Sager NP5790 with the 8700M GT and a 17" screen, although the increase in size from a 15.4" to a 17" would make it less portable. The Asus G1S looks like an "upgraded" and cheaper 15.4" Inspiron replacement. The ability to upgrade components on the C90 is a nice feature, however I'm wondering how the desktop processor would compare to the others in terms of performance, heat, and power use.

1) FORCE 3593s ASUS G1S-A1 Ensemble Core 2 Duo Santa Rosa / 15.4" WSXGA / GeForce 8600GT 512MB Video / DVDRW / 2GB / 160GB / VISTA
- 15.4" WSXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- ASUS Zero Bright Dot (ZBD) Pixel Guarantee
- Intel® Core™2 Duo T7500 2.2GHz w/4MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB Asus Default Processor
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 8600GT GDDR3 DX10 Turbo Cache (256MB on Board)
- 4,096MB (2 SODIMMS) DDR2 667MHz Dual Channel Memory
- 1GB Intel® Robson Turbo Memory (Vista Only)
-Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X Light Scribe DVDRW Drive w/ Software
-160GB Seagate Momentus 3GB/S SATA 300 7200RPM Hard Drive
- Internal 4-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO)
- Built in 1.3Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Integrated System Speakers - Included
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11 a/g/n
- Asus G Series Matching Backpack made by Targus
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- 110/220V 120W Auto Switching AC Adapter - Included
- ADD Car Adapter
- Microsoft USB Fingerprint Reader
- Asus G Series Matching Logitech Mouse
- Windows Vista Home Premium w/ Drivers & Utilities
- 2 Year ASUS GLOBAL Warranty, 24/7 Technical Support & 2-Way Pre-Paid Overnight Shipping for Warranty
Total: $2,384

2) Asus C90S 15.4" WSXGA+/GeForce 8600M GT 512M MXM II/Bluetooth/FingerPrint/Webcam
Installation: Hardware and Windows Software Install
Carrying Case: Included
Warranty: 3 Years Warranty with CPU purchase
RAM: 3GB DDR-2 667 SODIMM (1X1G+1X2GB)
HD: Seagate 7200.2 160GB 7200rpm S-ATA 300
Windows Vista Home Premium 32bit DVD
Air Plane/Vehicle Adapter
Intel Core 2 Duo Conroe E6700 2.66 GHz 1066FSB 4M
Heatsink, Fan, Thermal Paste: Included
WiFi: Intel® PRO/Wireless 4965 802.11 a/b/g/n
One AC Adapter Included
SATA HD Enclosure: None
Built-in 2.0 MP Webcam
Built-in Bluetooth™ V2.0+EDR
8 x DVD-RW Dual Layer Super Multi
Upgradable GeForce 8600 GT 512MB MXM 2.0 (GDDR3?)
15.4" WSXGA+ 1680X1050 Glossy
Fingerprint Reader: Built-in
Total: $2,059.00

3) Sager NP 5790
- 17" Wide Viewing Angles WUXGA LCD with Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1200)
- Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 / 4MB L2 Cache, 2.20GHz, 800MHz FSB
- Nvidia GeForce 8700M GT Graphics with 512MB DDR3 Video Memory
- Genuine MS Windows® VISTA Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition
- 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 X 2048MB
- 200GB 7200rpm SATA 150 Hard Drive
- 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software
- Intel PRO/Wireless 4965AGN - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
- Internal Bluetooth Module
- Smart Li-ION Battery Pack
- Integrated Security Device: Fingerprint Reader
- Warranty: Sager One Year Standard Warranty
- CAR-1010-2, Car Adatper
- Standard Carrying Bag
Total: $2,729.00

 

MXM-IV isn't a real standard. Its sager's own concoction, there will won't be a mxm card being released as mxmIV its just 1-3.

 

Foreruer: that's not true
MXM-IV/MXM-HE is a real "standard" (if you can speak of a standard)
and it certainly isn't something Sager made up. if anything, it's Clevo's design
but if you look around a bit, you'll see it IS supported by nVidia

theoak1: as there is no 256bus 8600M, that's hard to tell ... you can't really compare with somethig that doesn't exist
i'm sure you can find some benchmarks on this forum to compare the 8700M to the 8600M (do make sure you compare the same amount of VRAM and the same type!)
the sager is just as upgradable as the C90, be it that the Sager needs a mobile CPU and the C90 a desktop CPU. as you are wondering: the mobile CPU is a bit slower than it's desktop couterpart, but makes up for that by drawing less power and producing less heat. Thus, the mobile CPU will make your laptop last longer on its battery and it won't warm up so fast, but if you really need the power (can't imagine why, but it's possible ) you'd have to go for the desktop CPU
the choice 15,4 or 17" is up to you
personally i'd go for the sager (hell, i did that ) because it has the best GPU (and the largest screen)
do think bout the fact that, if you go for 4 GB RAM, you'll need a 64bit OS to use it completely

 

My point was there will be no mxm upgrade card that will say mxm-IV by nvidia. I believe it is sager who modifies their cards just like most mxm using companies. Doesn't really matter because other then sager I don't believe any 17 inch has mxm until the asus c70.

Actually mobile and desktop cpus are quite different. Its not a little bit of performance difference, the laptops that use desktop cpus blow the santa rosas away in both pcmark and wprime scores.

 

All else being equal it looks like the Sager has the best DX10 GPU available as well as a WUXGA 17" screen, while the Asus G1S has the edge on portability.

I also like the C90, although I prefer a mobile CPU for power and heat issues.

Would the 8700M be able to run 1900x1200 on a 17" screen at a decent frame rate?

I was going to go with the 4 GB RAM because it's not that much more expensive, and there was no option for 3GB on the Sager. It would also be nice to have in the event that I went to 64-bit Vista in the next 2-3 years.

I know there is no 256-bit 8600, I was just trying to make a comparison to how much faster the GDDR3 memory is over the standard 8600. Is it noticibly faster?

Will the 8600M GT w/ GDDR3 likely be the best GPU for 15.4" laptops for a while?

Will a 256-bit GPU ever work in a 15.4" laptop?

 

First of all there's a problem there, regardless of it being DDR2 ram instead of DDR3. I run Dark Crusade on my Go7400, it runs fine at high settings.

Obviously the slower memory will affect performance, but not that much in games like Dawn of War. Try some different drivers before you put your bad experiences solely down to the 8600GT with ddr2 being the definite problem, because most likely, it's not (in this case you've used as an example).

 

I have the 7.15.11.143 driver for the 8600M GT GDDR2. Is there a better driver?

Are you saying that the 8600M GT GDDR2 is a decent gaming card and it should hold its own for the next 2-3 years?

 

The Asus G1s does not have an upgradeable graphics card, just to clarify. Of the laptops you posted, the 5790 is the best gaming laptop, followed by the G1s, followed by the C90s. However, if you plan on upgrading your graphics card in a couple of years, to make your laptop as a whole last 4-5 years instead of 2-3, then the C90s is of course a better choice than the G1s.

The C90s' desktop processors perform better, clock for clock, than the mobile processors used in the 5790 and the G1s. However, they do use up more battery life. Expect well under 2hrs battery life on the C90s. Maybe no more than 90mins. Heat isn't too much of an issue on the C90s I've heard, due to the great cooling system it has.

Overall, all three of those notebooks are good gaming laptops. For raw power and upgradeability, get either the C90s or the 5790, depending on your preference of screen size. If you also want some portability, then the G1s is probably your best bet.

And yes, the DDR2 8600M-GT is still, in laptop terms, a good gaming card, and should stand up to newer game engines for 2-3 years, as long as you don't require turning the settings all the way up.