AMD Dynamic Switchable Graphics

Does anybody know anything regarding the ATI Dynamic Switchable Graphics (SG) to be included in the Radeon 6000 Mobility series? How does it work? Does it use a database like optimus, or does it activate based on resource usage as in Apple's implementation?

Here is the latest on this...

PowerXpress is the current name for the switching technology used in AMD/ATI graphics drivers available today. PowerXpress currently provides; 1) manual switching, and 2) power-plug detection based switching. Currently, there is no Windows based Dynamic Switchable Graphics solution implemented for AMD discrete mobile GPUs paired with an Intel Core i5/i7 processor.

Reviews of the Alienware m17x r3, with either a 6870m or 6970m, confirm the above. The early 2011 refresh of the Macbook Pro shows Dynamic Graphics Switching with the 6490m and 6750m.

Notable Links:
AMD Switchable Graphics Technology Primer
http://go.notebookreview.com/?id=525X832&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amd.com%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Ftechnologies%2Fswitchable-graphics%2FPages%2Fswitchable-graphics.aspx&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.notebookreview.com%2Fgaming-software-graphics-cards%2F543711-amd-dynamic-switchable-graphics.html%23post7004140

The Forthcoming (Sandy Bridge) HP Envy 17...
HP ENVY 17 Getting Intel Sandy Bridge, Switchable AMD Graphics for CES 2011 - Softpedia

 

Nothing yet on how it works.

AMD Dynamic SG was listed in the specs for the two HD6000M rebrands on AMD.com but the feature has been removed. It could be that DSG needs to wait for the Catalyst 11.0 drivers.

 

bump it up yo!!!!!!

any updates to this question with CES a few days away???

 

I am also looking for reviews about the AMD Dynamic Switchable Graphics Technology, especially the comparison between AMD's solution and Nvidia's Optimus Technology.
For now, I can only give you this: AMD Switchable Graphics Technology

and this press release:" Furthermore, the built-in AMD switchable graphics technology dynamically alternates between integrated graphics and AMD Radeon HD 6850M discrete graphics for enhanced performance and battery life." (Source: HP ENVY 17 Getting Intel Sandy Bridge, Switchable AMD Graphics for CES 2011 - Softpedia)

 

Knowing AMD drivers, it'll probably BSOD. <./runs for the hills from AMD fans>

 

lol, reminds me of that quote about reputations, except re drivers AMD has spent a lifetime destroying theirs...

"It takes a lifetime to build a good reputation, but you can lose it in a minute." ~Will Rogers

 

I was going to say sounds like Nvidia, after all the crud they put out between 2007 and 2010. dosnt anyone remember all the sites showing Nvidias drivers were accountable for almost 30% of crappy old vistas crashes.

yep former Nvidia fanboy here

okay a link to stop too much flaming at me
http://cybernetnews.com/nvidia-drivers-cause-29-of-vista-crashes/

 

no wonder i never found any crashes (found other scrap ) when i was using vista i was adrealy on an ati at this time

 

any updates on AMD Dynamic SG??? Drivers 11.0 release?

 

I'm pretty sure when it comes out, there will be announcements all over the forum, so don't worry about it right now.

 

still no Dynamic SG luv from AMD! !

 

It's out already check the Alienware forums, people are getting it with m17x R3 with the 6870 (Also available with 6970) Listed as powerxpress technology in alienware website

People got +5hours battery life using it

 

I'm curious to see how AMD handles management of the GPU's. If it will let you toggle the dedicated GPU on manually if desired. That seems to be one of the bigger issues with Optimus. I know you can exclude certain executables but even so why not just have a switch to turn it on or off to circumvent any issues from the automatic switching if they arise.

If Optimus is any indication, expect loads of issues with the in initial drivers. Personally I'm not a fan of the tech. I'll wait a few years until it matures and it either fails miserably or is flawless.

 

from what I read you can toggle on and off the dedicated gpu.

that is a great thing

 

Good. At least they aren't oblivious to issues with Optimus.

 

PowerXpress has been around since ~2008.

Either the Alienware has two multiplexers or AMD has modified it to work on a single mux like Optimus.

 

if im reading the M17X forums right it looks like dual MUX.

 

the m17x-r3 is likely dual

it shut down the IGP completely when using 3d

 

Does anyone know if AMD is likely to have the same issues as NVIDIA regarding 120Hz 3D and switchable graphics. Optimus uses the Intel IGP display controller at all times (even when using the 460M) and the IGP does not support 120Hz.

Will having dual multiplexers mean they can use the display controller on the 6xxx instead of the IGP? If so the new SB Envy 3D is looking good.

 

the igp does not seem to suport 120hz cause the current m17x does not suport the 6870 with 120hz

 

Yeah I realise the Intel IGP doesn't support 120Hz, that wasn't really my question. If the AMD 6xxx series is able to use it's own display controller when the IGP is not in use it may mean an Envy 120Hz 3D laptop with switchable graphics is possible.

 

I would like to point out a two things...

1. The reason why NVidia is unable to support 3D display and Optimus technology at the same time, is because of a couple of things occuring simultaneously. First, Optimus uses the PCIe bus to transfer processed video data from the discrete GPU (dGPU) to the IGP. Since this is the bus that the system uses to feed information to the dGPU for normal operation, the addition of Optimus data going back to the CPU from the dGPU, puts more traffic on this bus. The PCIe bus can handle the additional load of a backfed 60Hz display rate, but since 3D requires two video streams to be interleaved at the display, that means additional bandwidth will be needed at the PCIe bus *and* support for 120Hz output at the IGP, which Intel does not support. So, Optimus is limited by the PCIe bus, and the IGP. Since AMD's implementation uses MUXes, the issues of IGP support and PCIe loading become irrelevant to switching in this manner. Therefore, it is completely plausible to suggest that an AMD switchable graphics solution will be able to retain support for 3D playback, though you will likely need to use the discrete GPU to view the 3D content.

2. despite PowerXpress being seen on the AW m17x R3, and it allowing a simple switching between the SB IGP and 6xxx series dGPUs based upon manual input or power plug detection, there has been no demonstration of *dynamic* switching on such a platform. i still am waiting for such a demonstration to confirm the presence of a true Optimus competitor.

 

Really great info one33, just what I was looking for thank you.

I'm not too bothered about the dynamic switching as power plug detection is fine by me. Looks like the Envy 17 SB 3D could be a great machine. I wonder if there will be a m17x R3 3D with 6xxx any time soon.

 

Just because AW decided not to release an AMD card with support for 3D, does not mean that it is not possible! In the case of NVIDIA's implementation, it is simply not possible!

 

the problem is not with the amd card but with the switchable graphic since the intel gpu does not suport 120hz

 

Ever since NVIDIA announced the details of the Optimus architecture, i knew that it would come back to bite them in the a$$ one day. The downsides of their implementation are that they increase PCIe bus traffic, the IGP is *always* active, and backfeeding dGPU data to be output by the IGP adds an extra degree of latency as well as a potential bottleneck.

AMD's switched methodology is about 90% of the way things should be done, except they have yet to implement a driver that will provide dynamic switching.

Apple's implementation of dynamic switchable graphics is the best one yet, though i would never purchase a Mac.

Personally, i believe that the final 10% could be achieved by giving the CPU a new bus, meant purely for switching IGP or dGPU graphic streams to the video display controller. Ideally, it would be intelligent enough to use IGP, dGPU, or IGP + dGPU streams to output directly to the video output, on a per-pixel basis. That would enable different power profiles, and intelligent load sharing based on the demands of the media to be output. Imagine a system that would never have to switch the entire video stream, but rather, only the portions that required a higher degree of power, maybe on a per-window or per-pixel basis.

The reality, tho, is that this will never happen... *Sigh*

 

ummmmmmmmmmmm.............. no

 

apple has some unusual behavior on their graphics switching. it's application API dependent switching... there are some API's not related to graphics directly that switch on the gpu for odd results... like chrome and utorrent activating dedicated graphics. plus, there is extremely limited built in support for selecting the gpu manually. you either select the dedicated gpu or allow it to switch automatically. the obvious third option is mysteriously absent.

 

The funny thing, is IBM and MS actually put some research into this (in a reverse setup) for the xbox360 project

However, it requires a bit of an IGP redesign, if what you mentioned is to work. Intel would have to work with nVidia, or AMD (neither, IMO, is going to happen), and create a system for them to use, increasing their own die size for a feature that will not be used in a decent amount of systems - in the ideal Intel design of a complete Intel ecosystem, of course.

 

That's pretty much the entire problem with the reality of switchable graphics. With Intel's integration of graphics onto the CPU die, drivers for both the integrated GPU and discrete GPU will need to be designed with cooperation from both companies plus software companies (ie. MS for O/S integration). Company politics really slow this down and add many compatibility problems to the mix and it can be a real mess.

 

hence the reason i said that this will never happen. boohoo!

 

Apparently the early 2011 MBP now has AMD 6490m/6750m with dynamic switchable graphics. Hopefully we haven't heard anything about AMD Dynamic SG because of Apple being Apple, and demanding that AMD not release it to anybody else until they get to release it first. And, even that assumption is unlikely because Apple has their own switchable graphics system....

 

I've yet to see anything indicating that they use AMD DSG. Are you sure that they're not just using their system?

 

they will use their own system... they made their own for Nvidia as well. come on Apple use STANDARDS never

 

Great stuff one33_bpm. Do you know if HPs new Sandy Bridge Envy 3D will have SG?

EDIT:: Nvm! I just realized that was kind of the point to this thread. I guess I will have to wait until the first Envys are shipped!

 

Just for reference, I have the new Macbook Pro and I am able to dynamically switch between graphics cards even while playing live HD content through netflix. No blank screens. Just a nice notification that the cards have switched. Certainly the best implementation of graphics card switching I've seen so far.

 

Red5, I'm hoping the Envy 14 has a 6700 series radeon, but no one knows at this point. A while back, there was an announcement that HP would be revealing it's whole lineup by March 12th, so I expect to see something about the Envy 14 then. Supposedly the Envy 17 implemented dynamic switchable graphics, so it stands to reason that the 14 would as well, assuming that they followed through on that claim.

Quadron, do you run bootcamp? I'm interested in purchasing a new MBP, but only if I can use switchable graphics in windows.... I know that none of the previous MacBooks allowed GPU switching in windows mode. Wouldn't that be great to only need the AMD catalyst drivers to get the switchable graphics working....

 

I just want a straight answer after no end of searching and asking for 3 months...

Can I get 4 hour idle/surf battery life out of a new laptop with a 6970m or GTX485m by using the CPU's onboard GPU.

6970M as I understand yes I can, if I manually tell the puter which GPU to use.
485M as I understand no, not at all, no optimus, and no driver manual switch either.

 

My answer is no to both, any laptop equipped with the 6970m/485m is a monster at guzzling power. I don't think it likely you'll get 4 hours even if the 6970m supported switchable graphics simply because performance laptops equipped with high-end cards don't see more than 2 1/2 hours max battery life.

 

interestingly enough the m17x r3 with the 5870 can do the amd switch, I hope that its the same for the 6970.

the battery life with the 5870 was around the 4h ballpark.

Dont expect a switch from sager notebooks.

 

Using integrated switches off the dGPU. I just used 4 hours as a standard SB + iGPU + >50Whr estimate.

I know hungry GPUs make for short battery, look in my sig. i7 quad + 260m = 90 mins.

WWWWWHHHHHHYYYYYY !!!!!!!!

They just lost a sale. I was very seriously considering P150/170HM with 6970m...

 

they will have a 6970m as they already have in one vendor (eurocom, although avoid this one like the plague). I havent expressed myself clearly sorry, they wont make the switcheable graphics available.