AMD HD 6990m vs Nvidia 580m GTX - Discussion Thread

And in one instance among your examples, the fault was because of Nidia who decided to sabotage over 50% of gamers who are running AMD hardware.[/QUOTE]

It is not false information, it is what I experience. I am not trashing AMD, because I have own more AMD than Nvidia GPUs.

Your last sentence prove it, It doesn't matter in the end if AMD is the same as Nvidia, as long as Nvidia exist, they can sabotage as much as they want.

I don't care what the REASON is, I only see the result. Yes I know all these things you say and I know that Nvidia really hurt the game market for AMD user, but that is what it is. I don't like it either, it like Alienware paying to have the 6990m out for their customer before anyone else or how Sony had bought a lot of exclusive developers so that those games are only on the PS3.

 

These are just my opinions so please don't be like OMG the 580M is better and the 6990M sucks, Thanks

-First, I don't think the benchmarks on Notebookreview are telling the whole story. The 580M beats the 6990M in some games but the 6990M also beats the 580M is some games which put them equal in my mind, not 8% faster. The 6990M beats the the 580M in BF:BC 2, metro 2033, and is on par with it on Crysis 2. Also I never plan on playing games like Dirt 3 or mafia 2 which the 580M beats the 6990M in. Also Nvidia cards have always performed better in call of duty games, so that one is obvious goes to the 580M. I think the games they chose just happened to run better on Nvidia cards, it could have gone either way depending on the games. This makes sense because in benchmarks the 6990M/580M are exactly on par with each other at stock speeds, especially on this forum around 14.5k in vantage. The 580M does overclock farther then the 6990m. The 6990M hitting around 17kish and the 580M around 18k-19k or even higher in vantage, but I would never wanna overclock my card that much in the first place let alone keep it at thoughs clocks while gaming. As far as temperatures go I'm not really concerned, MALIBAL said they have it down to 84C on the -203 heatsink while running vantage (comparable to real life gaming unlike furmark). The -204 might help a little and the fact that my house temp. is around 21C, I have no doubt it'll run under 80C. I guess it really comes down to what games you play and for me the 6990M is the better choice especially for games coming up later this year and 2012. Also I'm sure better drives will help the 6990M, as far is which is better neither in my mind. They will trade blows depending on the game. Again this is all just my opinion on things.

 

hmm i didnt know the 6990 performs better on BC2, ...that raises my hopes that the 6990's will max everything on BF3.

 

yeah, in notebookcheck's review, their 6990M ran at 54.8 fps while the 580M ran at 50.9 fps. I doubt either the 6990M or 580M will be able to run BF3 with everything max out (at least without a decent overclock).

 

have you noticed though on the razer/(or?) blade that they had bf3 running? i dunno, that also gives me high hopes of it maxing it out since they only had a 555m GTX

 

You have 6970 in crossfire, isn't that like a GTX 570? You should definitely max it.

 

yeah XF 6970 should be able to max it out.

 

I thought I was pretty clear... I am considering a purchase and I am want to avoid fanboi comparisons.
(I am not accusing anyone... just want to avoid it.)

I want numbers and personal opinions based upon experience.
Liking the 6990m is not a sin... nor is liking the 580m, but I'd like to know why people would make one decision or other specifically.

I do not consider either brand name to be enough to buy one GPU over the other.

Furthurmore, I cannot see anyone saying the 6990m sucks... it's a very nice GPU with a very nice price. The 580m is also a nice GPU, with in my opinion a not-as-nice price.

Vantage is just one more benchmark IMHO. "On average" the 580m has higher performance. Note, the spread of benchmarks hints at how future games will turn out as well. However, "the 6990m runs my favorite game better" is a perfectly valid and reasonable reason to pick the 6990m over the 580m.

A word about heat generation... the reason why people compare furmark is that it is designed to push a card into its heat threshold... but it is quite realistic for games like Metro to push a GPU that hard. (indeed 10 minutes of Metro was turning out higher temps with the old heatsink than furmark on the 6990m)

Note that most overclockers do not push into extreme limits... the 580m can reasonably overclock without breaking more than a few extra degrees over stock even under the worst of conditions. It is THAT overclock that truly shows nvidia's strength. Any overclock for the 6990m is going to be pushing into extreme OC due to the heat control issues.

The extreme people will buy new power supplies, cooling units, new electrical components, etc... I think we can say some of them qualify for "mad scientist" level... Let's be honest with ourselves and consider those OCs to be "unrealistic" for people to expect.

The tests at Notebookcheck were run at stock. Now compare two reasonable users who want to keep their laptop for awhile and thus will choose the best performance that doesn't cook their new laptop.
-The 6990m chooses to stay at stock or close due to heat.
-The 580m chooses to take the "easy OC" that he gets with just a slider move that doesn't change his max temps by more than a few degrees C.
Result? The 580m will turn out to be a reasonable measure better than 8% average better as they can 15-20% OC without much change in temp.
Is that advantage worth the $$? It is up to the user.

In my position, the 580m isn't really on the table as its just too far above what I want to spend on a GPU. However, comparing a 570m with an "easy overclock" result of 14.2K score compared to the 14.5K score of the stock 6990m gives food for thought.

 

Ahhh man.. THis is like being tossed around like a freesbie.. one day its the AMD one day it's the 580m.. I just want to know bottom line.. regardless of price.. which card is better performing.. thats all.. the one that's faster.. and if it's game sensitive which one works better on more games then..

Seriously man.. any more moving around the fence like this and ill lose my mind one day it's the AMD that's better than the next day its the 580..

Im just a normal gamer who wants to have the best dual graphics configuration on his alienware m18x.. ive compromised on price as im only going to buy one alienware say for at least the next 6 years.. so guys.. Please give me a clear answer.. i keep reading.. Yes the AMD is the best but... or the 580m is faster but... can someone help me with just the starting three words of those two sentences without the but.. I really wud appreciate it..

I'm going for an Alienware m18x
nvidia 580m SLI or AMD 6990 Crossfire
i7 2720 2.2 Ghz

I turned my head towards the nVidia 580m for the 3d support but if the SLI performance sucks compared to AMD then to hell with 3d..

Please help

Yours Sincerely
_Confused_Alienware_Obssessed_individual_aka_motherf**ker_Jones

 

Really, in the Alienware forum thread 6990M vs. 580M the stock Vantage scores were almost exactly the same(even the 3d mark 11's were extremely close)? http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m17x/598992-580m-vs-6990-benchmarks.html Also in the sage/clevo forums people's 6990M have been right around 14.5k at stock, right around the 580M. Also the heat, I feel is a little over exaggerated. I will be getting my 6990M this Friday and will be testing the temperatures/vantage scores, and I have no doubt it'll be in the mid to high 70C. I'll probably try and just hit 16k-17k in Vantage or at least that's my goal.

 

just FYI, GPU temperature is not an indicator of how much HEAT the card produces. I had both a 6990M (6970M ES with 1120 shaders) and a GTX 580M in my M17x-R2 and although the 580M records an average temperature of 70 degrees during load while the 6990M averaged about 76-78 degrees, the exhaust fan behind my M17x feels a lot hotter with the 580M than with the 6990M.

 

This so much lol. I'm pretty sure Malibal is going to just cancel my order because they'll hate me so much. Upgraded to the 580 last night, only to ask if I could still swap back to the 6990 in a day or two if I want to...I really like the fact that AMD has higher fps than the 580 in BF2.. because I plan on playing BF3 a lot, but at the same time I can OC (not sure if I would though..) the 580 which will probably give me better results. I've also never used an AMD card before so I don't know anything about their driver support or issues, I just know Nvidia has been fairly decent in the past. The heat, while some people say is a minor issue.. is also something I'm somewhat worried about since I've always heard that heat kills laptops faster than anything else...

 

you can't go wrong with either card, so just follow your gut.

 

If you want the 6990m, then stick to it. Don't listen to me and other people because in the end it what you want that will matter. I'm not going to be the one playing with your notebook, it is YOU, and it is what YOU like. I can only offer advice and suggestion but since you are unsure, I say save that $100 and just buy the 6990m.

The reason I switch was because it would take me another 2 weeks before I could receive my notebook so I switch cause I had no other choice.

 

save a few hundred dollars and get the 6990m. I got the GTX 580m since I virtually got the upgrade for free.

BUT THERE IS ONE MAJOR THING TO NOTE

The 6990m at stock when at load is 1.1V--which is a primary cause to to its high heat. This also means it'll be very risky to OC.

The GTX 580m at stock when at load is 0.87V--which means it'll on average run with slightly lower temps. But the major thing is it can OC VERY well, as you can OC at stock volts and then Overvolt it to hit even desktop GTX 560 Ti clocks. http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/595787-extreme-gtx580m-overclocking.html


so while the dust settles froms all the driver issues--while the stock performance between the 2 GPUs may be the same, the GTX 580m will be able to OC a lot higher. This is my reasoning.

 

You are confused... if the heat is coming out the back, it is being properly removed from the GPU and indeed the laptop.

We are not talking about comfort levels when holding your hand in front of the exhaust vent... we are talking about heat at the GPU which has the potential to cook your GPU and damage your laptop.

Measuring this heat at the GPU is important and you SHOULD care what the readings are especially if you wish to OC. Honesty, running th 6990m even at stock you should be looking until you know the temps are staying under 100 C.

Again, none of this makes the 6990m a bad GPU... its just hotter...


For the "which is the best performance overall" person...

The 580m wins the performance crown when you do not consider price due to its lower heat and thus higher OC potential. If you want the best and can spend the money, get the 580m.

If you got the 6990m, you still have an amazing GPU that is a nose-hair slower than the 580m.

 

Ok..

So Bottom Line AMD 6990m Crossfire vs 580m Sli.. Winner??

580 M Sli can be overclocked ??

How is the AMD driver support for CF... if SLI driver suporrt better?

Am going to be using any of the two dual card configurations for n alienware m18x...

Help me guys.. im like on a sea saw between these two cards..

 

Why can't use your own brain? Why do you need someone to tell you what to do? This is getting infantile.

The NBR users have given you all the information you need to make a decision, actually overload of information I think. Which is also surprising, you had to have all this spoon fed to you.

 

If that's your argument, then I would simply point out that the current AMD dies have a higher critical temperature than current generation nVidia dies (125 degrees C vs 105 degrees C). You are dismissing the fact that it's not just the die that absorbs and produces heat, but the whole card! The best example of this is the situation with the desktop Radeon 6990 vs GTX 590. The temperature readings of the GTX 590 are lower than what is reported on the 6990. However, we all know about how much HEAT the GTX 590 produces vs the 6990:

This is why GTX590s blow up. Infrared thermography: GTX590 vs HD6990 - [H]ard|Forum

Here you can see how the excess heat spreads onto the PCB of the GTX 590. A situation like that is much more likely to cause damage to your card and GPU vs slightly higher temp readings. In a way, it makes sense seeing as the die is bigger than the AMD counterpart (the 580M die just barely fits the copper contact square on my heatsink). In my case, extra heat from the 580M spreads around the exhaust area so much that it was noticeably hotter than what I experienced with the 6990M/6970M ES. However, I don't think is to the point where I think the R2's cooling will fail (basically I'm saying the heat is manageable, though hotter than any card I've tried so far.

 

Not a hard decision mate, go with the 6990m CF, you won't regret it!

 

Source please... not because I doubt you, but because I may reference later. It does make perfect sense due to the 6990m being designed for higher voltage.
Anything over 100 C in a laptop is danger-zone IMHO... and this is not just the GPU... its the rest of the laptop too.

No... I am pointing out the most relevant place to measure is the highest point in a laptop, which not surprisingly, is the point at which the most heat is generated.

You are forgettting that in a laptop, everything is squished together in close proximity. It is not the same as a desktop where there is plenty of space and room for heat to spread to. Even if the AMD cards have a higher tolerance, the REST of the laptop, made out of the same components, does not. In terms of component failure, heat spread out is better than heat in a small area.

(this is why measuring at the fan is simply silly, you WANT it being vented!)

These are not the same and you know it. Desktop components are spread out more and have better airflow as well as heat spreaders built on the cards that are of much more effective. Don't believe me... pick up your laptop under load... you will note that parts of it are warmer than others by a landslide!

Also, just because one product is hotter, does not mean another from the same company is.

We both know there is a reason the heatsink in the clevo models was so quickly replaced. 112 C was a danger to the laptop components inside if not to the GPU.

 

well-put. +1 rep, (learned alot)

 

Just to add in my two cents, I originally chose a 6990M due to price vs. performance. It was such a bargain it was a no brainer.

However, I received my laptop and was getting temperatures of 105 degrees in Furmark and Metro 2033. I was the guy who also had GPUZ reporting 112 degrees. Tried everything with Malibal and nothing seemed to resolve the issue so I RMA'd the laptop.

Afterwards there seemed to be lots of confusion about the proper heatsink for the 6990M and the fact that lots of work was required for resellers to bring the temps down on the 6990M. All in all, between the heatsink and temperature issues, I just had a bad taste in my mouth with the 6990M. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure these issues will be resolved if they haven't been already but I'm gunshy at this point.

Instead I decided on the 580M. I should be receiving the laptop on Thursday. Malibal sent me some screenshots of temps and the 580M hit a peak of 75 celsius in 3D mark. That obviously makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

Both are great cards. Driver support for these cards is in it's infancy and things are only going to get better. The performance reasoning you use now to decide which card to go with could very well be irrelevant 3 months from now.

 

Since the 580M is based off the GTX 560Ti:

GeForce GTX 560 Ti

(go to specifications, under maximum GPU temperature)

For the 6990M (based off the 6870), I'll admit, I have a hard time trying to find something definite from AMD, though I remember reading it during one review. One guy says:

[Solved] Max temp for a radeon 6870 - ATI - Graphic-Displays

though I think it's lower than that, maybe around 110.

If you are measuring dies of different sizes (and different companies), then that wouldn't be an accurate indicator on how much heat is being produced. The 6990M die is significantly smaller than the GTX 580M die (255 mm^2 vs 368 mm^2). If the GTX 580M temps were lower, it would depend on HOW low those temps are because the 580M's die has more real estate to spread all that heat. Think about it this way: If a GT 520 die ran 12 degrees higher than a GTX 580 die which die would be generating more heat(BTW, the GT 520 die is about 1/6th the die size of the 580)? Although I'm using extremes, the principle is still applicable between the HD 6990M and the GTX 580M

I disagree. First, the area in which the heat is confined or generated can handle those temperatures. In this case, the GPU die. Secondly, and like you just pointed out, if the other components can't handle those temps, then why risk spreading it to those areas? A bigger die will spread its heat faster than a smaller die would. Think about it like this: Which is going to heat up your room faster? a large portable heater or a curling iron just dangling off your sink? The curling iron is likely at a much higher temperature than the heater...

The principle is still the same, whether desktop or laptop. Heat is going to spread, and even more so in a laptop since all components are squished together. And I think it's pretty clear with the GTX 590 vs the 6990 thermal diagrams.

My point is that even though the GTX 580M shows a lower temp reading than the 6990M, it doesn't mean that the 6990M is producing more heat, which is what you seem to be suggesting. However, in idle, the GTX 580M runs cooler than even the 6970M.

 

after reading so many different discussions on these cards, i have a few questions, but before i share, this is the basis of what i learned (correct me if i made a mistake somewhere):

-okay so the 580m's are apparently the less "powerful" card than the 6990's in games and so on because apparently the 6990 beats it (source here). Now, with that being said, i think its also a driver issue with the 580 (for some reason, deep down in mah heart, i still think the 580's better ), rather than the card just sucking alltogether.

-the 6990 tends to have higher temps

-the 6990 is also significantly cheaper than the 580's.

My question(s) are this:

1.) If Nvidia were to create some driver updates, would we then see the full potential of the 580's?
2.) When will the next Nvidia drivers be updated for the 580 (if anyone has a speculation or knows)?
3.) If the price was the same for both cards, what would be the better pick for just hardcore gaming thats non-3d (EG: BF3, skyrim, Sins rebellion)?

 

The benchmark tests are pretty much even, but the 580M performs better than the 6990M in most games by ~8%. Review AMD Radeon HD 6990M Graphics Card - Notebookcheck.net Reviews.

yes

yes

My question(s) are this:

1. yes. The same could be said for the 6990M.
2. Pretty sure they just released one recently. I doubt anyone knows exactly when future driver updates will be available besides Nvidia.
3. 580M

 

awesome thanks for the article and the info, it opened up my eyes. +1

 

EDITED ANSWER INTO QUOTE ABOVE ^

1. Yes, for both the 580M/6990M drivers could change performance

2. I don't know

3. For me it would be the 6990M, because it's faster in games I like. It's faster in BF:BC 2 so it'll probably be faster in BF 3. I am a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls series, (all time favorite games/series) and am waiting patiently for Skyrim. ATI cards have performed better then Nvidia cards in past Bethesda games so the case will most likely be the same with Skyrim. This was huge for me because I want Skyrim to run as well as possible.

 

Shop through malibal. They have the 6990m

 

3 fps more won't make a huge differences. I like Dirt 3 and it 7fps faster on the 580m so I'm happy with that!

 

Meh, so far in the sager/clevo forums the 6990M has been out performing the 580M at stock speeds in benchmarks like 3D Mark Vantage. Both are great cards but I'm loving my 6990M so far and couldn't be happier. Maybe with the temps but even thoughs haven't really been that bad.

 

It is what you enjoy the most that matter! I am very happy with my 580m but I would be happy with the 6990m either way. They are both great cards!

 

3) Does this also apply for SLI, is SLI better than crossfire ??

 

by reviews, yes. the SLI config is more powerful than the xfire

 

They are roughly equal in benchmark tests with 580 slightly ahead. But is it really worth that much more?

 

6990m has lower power consumption, I think that's very important for a laptop

 

whats your source, if it has lower power consumption, is that when its running on minimum, or running at full power, because if it is the latter it doesn't matter, because the cards will never run at full power, when on battery.

 

its the latter, unfortunately.

 

I wonder what GPU scores higher on battery. Any ideas guys

 

The 580m pulls more amperage under load. Which is the reason why you can't get dual 580m's in the P180HM even with a 300w power adapter. I'm not sure about idle or on battery though. I have my 6990m undervolted at .75v when idle and that gives much better battery life.

 

Might as well leave this here.

 

while not a 580m, on my 485m i discovered that if i overclock the second frequency set using nvidia inspector, that i get much better framerates while on the go. its normally clocked to 74 core / 150ish memory, and i doubled it, greatly improving framerate for bf3, and it only had aout 15minutes less of battery life. you can probably underclock the gpu from nvidia inspector to get better life as well for the first frequency set. and then maybe if you modify the bios a lower voltage as well.


so in conclusion, if your using battery, but need more performance just change the clocks of the second frequency set to the desired frequency and have fun.

 

No way. In some games Nvidia wins, in some others AMD. Who on earth could have seen that coming?

I am truly shocked

 

Yeah, but PCPER is a notorious Nvidia fanboy blog. I'd still want a comparison from a more unbiased reviewer.

 

Here is power consumption of the two GPUs. Nvidia draw almost 30W more than 6990M when gaming, while idling the Nvidia draw 5W less.

Source: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gtx-580m-sli-hd-6990m-crossfire,3022.html


There you go. From Tomshardware. AMD and Nvidia have been going on like this forever. AMD was the clear choice for people before, but now that Nvidia have lowered their prices on the 580M, it change the picture. Well, at the Alienware forum a lot of users are complaining about 6990M being a pain in the @ss, and the 580M working like a charm. But that is a different story. Performance wise it doesn`t matter what you pick.

 

can i ask about the power consumption chart above, is that the total consumed by the laptop or did they break down on each components?

 

It is the total power consumption

 

Hello all, just trying to see if anyone still looks at these old threads. Wanting to know if the 580m still holds a lead over the 6990m. I may have the opportunity to buy my choice of a laptop that has one or the other. It seems like Nvidia with their frequent driver updates would be better at maintaining the 580m, but is there any clear lead still?

Thanks

 

I'd go with the 580m (or 675m) over the 6990m, but the 6990m is still a decent card as well. Are you just looking on the used market? Have you considered going with a newer 7970m/680m setup instead?

 

Dude,
Ultimately it comes down to the price. I have the 6990m and love this card and it works superbly for me. If you can get the 580m or the 6990m for a cheaper price then go with it. Ultimately there is little difference between the two when it comes down to fps with the 580m slightly ahead by 3~4fps, but other games made for AMD reciprocating that lead.