AMD's Mantle and the future of graphics API's on PC

Some good points here. The thing is..Microsoft doesn't have to support it, it's not their call. They have little choice and I believe its up to the developers. Most development teams prefer multiplatform releases than exclusive releases so coding for Mantle may present as a smart option.

 

You don't get the point of what i was trying to say.
Mantle IS ALREADY a direct copy of xbox one low level api or derivated from it.

As anandtech said : No longer is Mantle just a new low level API for AMD GCN cards, whose success is defined by whether AMD can get developers to create games specifically for it, but Mantle becomes the bridge for porting over Xbox One games to the PC. Developers who make extensive use of the Xbox One low level API would be able to directly bring over large pieces of their rendering code to the PC and reuse it, and in doing so maintain the benefits of using that low-level code in the first place.

So, in a way, yes M$ won't directly support mantle. It's almost amd's job to improve drivers ( for both consoles and pc ). But still, it's here, it will be massively used. And it doesn't prevent M$ to improve DX as well.

You have 2 cases of scenario for multiplat games :
-either the "main version" is pc, using DX. Devs can port this on X1 using DX11.2, and loosing lots of perfs ( and will still have to use libgc on ps4 ), or use "mantle" -or whatever the name on X1 is- to optimise it for consoles.
-or Create a low level optimised code from scratch for consoles using "mantle" and libgc -to have the best experience on console- then port on PC using both mantle ( copy/paste easy ) and DX ( no need for ultra optimisation, you have plenty of firepower in high end pc ).

Which one do you think devs will use, as consoles generate much more $$$$$ than pc ?

In fact, amd as a HUGE card to play here. Just imagine they could get some devs to use mantle only, and not dx anymore. Their game would still be able to run on consoles, pc with amd, steambox. They wouldn't have to lose time and ressources for a dx version of their game, and still hit a huge market. All this with only 1 api. I really think that's amd main goal right now. And that would be a total win for them, for pc gamers who own a gcn card, for linux users with gcn card also, and in a way console users also as devs wouldn't have to split their ressources. And if that was ever going to happen, well, too bad for nvidia users.

 

AMD's got a plan... and it starts with bewbs... consoles are just an afterthought.

 

shut up and take my money for this one !

 

Well this changes just about everything.

AMD's Mantle API not compatible with the Xbox One - TechSpot

Microsoft Confirms AMD Mantle Not Compatible with Xbox One | PC Perspective

Raising the Bar with Direct3D

So Xbox One will still stick with D3D11 with "specific enhancements designed for 'close to metal' performance on the system." This is what Microsoft had to say on it:

And PS4 will most likely go with an OpenGL-based API again. So as of right now, Mantle will only be of benefit to owners of AMD GCN graphics cards, which are the minority when compared to consoles gamers and PC gamers using Nvidia and Intel GPU's. At this point, it's hard not to feel that Mantle is doomed for failure even before it's been released yet.

And John Carmack, that prophetic god of PC gaming, was right again.

 

Good post. I thought Mantle would have been the ACE up AMD's sleeve had both the consoles been coding to it. Furthermore, had the steam box offered AMD cards which doesn't look to be the case either. However, wouldn't coding to Mantle the developers decision? Also, if true, I don't even see how this can now benefit AMD GCN users anymore,as the advantage of Mantle was that console optimization would carry across to PC.

 

AMD responds: AnandTech Portal | AMD Expands On Microsoft Blog Post, Reiterates Mantle Goals

 

This doesn't change anything at all. All AMD did was state the obvious. Of course Mantle is low-level optimization for the GCN architecture intended to streamline PC game development and in that sense it is similar but not the same as the console low-level API's. The console connection is given due to the hardware similarities, which I'm not doubting will make programming easier, but at the end of the day Mantle is just another rendering path that game developers must go out of their way to code for when porting to the PC instead of something which was already in place had it been used in the consoles. The number of AMD video cards and specifically GCN cards out there which will be able to use Mantle are already the minority. I just don't see how Mantle could possibly get widespread adoption and not die the same death as Glide.