ATI Mobility Radeon X1900!?

Hey forum members,

I was surfing the site of F&S and I saw a new model of their notebooks: the Amilo Xi1554. It sais that it features the X1900 256 MB GDDR3. But the ATI says that there is no X1900 mobility or something.

Is this a mistake of F&S or have I missed something?

Charlie

 

It does say brand new x1900 and it shows the ATI badge for the x1900.

So I guess its true.

 

But how come the ATI site does not have an X1900 mobility? I think you can trust the site of ATI more then the site of F&S.

But if it is true it would be a great answer from ATI for the nVidia's 7900GTX. I wish I had that notebook.

Charlie

 

Great find Charlie. It's about time ATI came out with a mobile card to compete with the Go7900 series cards.
The X1900 for notebooks has not been released yet as far as I know, so FS probably let it slip. Might want to save that page before it disappears.

 

Actually, another poster found the Amilo Xi 1554 a few days ago and don't worry it's still there.

 

You are right Chaz but I have a question: isn't 256 MB too less for a videocard that is going to compete with the 512 MB 7900GTX Go?
I am afraid this is a typo of F&S

Charlie

 

I also do think this may be a typo on Fujitsu Siemens part. I also say had a really good look at the datahseet, and while it does mention the Mobility X1900, ATI hasn't mentioned anything. To add to that, there was speculation way back in January of this card hitting the market.

To be quite honest, ATI seems to be coming to high end markt, too late in the game. Nvidia has a massive market share, for the upper end, and it makes ATI's job of gettin gin alot harder.

Then again, maybe ATI just doesn't want to disclose any information on the card yet. This will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Charlie, I know your question was directed at Chaz, but I think i may have a partial answer. It may be that todays games, or at least the majority of them, don't require the full 512 MB of graphics memory.

 

Well, personally if the card is fast enough 256mb should be fine.

 

Right; most games don't need 512MB of memory.

A related scenario: The Sager NP5760 was originally shipped with a 256MB Go7900GTX; after the 512MB version came out, we compared the two in benchmarks and the difference in performance was minimal in the latest games. Only at the absolute highest settings & resolution was there a few FPS difference, and the game was more than playable on both cards. So that said, I wouldn't worry about the card having "only" 512MB of dedicated RAM.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 512MB version of the MR X1900 come out.

 

Suppose a Mobility X1900 does come out, in two seperate products, the Mobility X1900 and X1900 XT. Seeing as though their is little to no information on the Internet about this card, what do you think the specifications of the card are going to be.

I think it may be ery difficult indeed, to get 48 pipes into a mobile part, let alone at a respectable clock speed. I speculating here, but they may decide to bring it out with 36 or possibly 24. What do you think guys?

 

This is the only information we have.

I am having trouble understanding ATI. Let's say the X1900 Mobility will come out, will this support DX 10? nVidia has already released it's 8800GTX and the Go version will follow soon.
ATI is still releasing it's DX 9 cards... I just don't understand. I would prefer a DX 10 card then a DX 9 card these times.

Charlie

 

I would gues that ATI is changing card spesification so it will support DX10 as NVidias lattest card will, and for that them dont let any information out before them totaly know if any significan changes will possble no not, or something like that.

 

This is what seems strange. To bring a card out at this stage seems somewhat of a weird move from ATI. It may be that the project for this card, where the rolling out was planned for January, may have been massively delayed. However, I don't think ATI would make a blunder on such a large scale.

About the DX10 support. I'm a little reluctant to say it it having DX10. To bring a DX10 card out would require a new architecture, or major advancements to the current architecture at least. This is what I thought, but I'm, not absolutely sure. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

The Radeon X1000 series video cards do not have support for DirectX 10, and there's no way they can support it. A card is either DirectX 10 or it is not.

I do agree that it is a bit odd for ATI to bring out a more powerful card right now. I suppose they simply want to hold onto the manufacturers that are already using their high-end cards; it might be a move to appease them so they do not switch to Nvidia, since they have higher-performing high-end cards right now.

 

Well that would be very strange to bring a new high end card right now that would be of dx9 support, when you know that nvidia is already working on mobile dx10 that will propobly be released relativy soon. No body would buy them, everybody would wait on dx10 card.

 

It does seem a little strange to be bringing it out so late in the game. It would make sense that ATI's high-end customers would pressure them for an answer to the 7900 series.

I'd like to see what the x1900 can do. It's always nice to have options.

 

The only reason the x1800 wasn't the answer to the 7900gs is because it was underclocked, horribly lowering it's scores. And it was underclocked because it was too hot.

It's good that they are bringing out the x1900. The x1900 series was much cooler then the x1800 series. Maybe they won't hafta underclock...

 

Very good point. Like Zellio said: the X1800 was just too hot. It needed to be underclocked.

But do you guys remember the X1700? It had a new architecture which ment more performance with less power consumption and heat. It was something with silicium strained thingy, I have forgotten it
What if ATI has that technology in the X1900? That would be great. You would have a real mobile desktop replacer without 1.5 hour battery life max.

But like stated by other forum members I think it is a weird step from ATI. nVidia is giving all it's energy to the Go 8-series (DX 10) while ATI is still busy with the X1k-series.

But we are still not sure if this is true or not. It might be a mistake from F&S.

Charlie

 

Well, if Nvidia is bringing the 8800 series to laptops, it'll mean even worse battery life then a x1800...

So it may mean a x1900 with 2 or 2 1/2 hour battery life that runs cools versus a hot 1 hour battery hog. Hell, you might even be able to put a x1900 in a 15 inch laptop sometime!

 

Underclocking the Mobility X1800 really has hurt its scores, and performance overall. However, many people have been able to clock theres back to the proper clocks, specified by ATI. Other than that, it isn't a bad card at all. The only problem was its availability. As with most high end ATI cards, they were never available in high numbers. There are only a handful of notebooks that have the Mobility X1800, and fewer still with the X1800 XT.

At the moment, the Mobility X1800 is built on the 90 nm process, and the X1900 is likely to be built on 80 nm (Similar to the X1700). If that is the case, then ATI can clock the X1900 highly and not have to worry about heat.

However, I don't think the heat difference is going to be so much so, that it will enable ATI to put these cards in smaller notebooks. You have to remember that this is still a hot card, andcramming all that power into a small notebook just means heat spilling out of everywhere. It just doesn't look feasible.

 

I doubt there will be a 8800 mobile version until Feb. 2007. Even then it will probably be expensive, big, and run hot. It would be nice to see a shrink to 65nm and even better a 8800 mobile version that can be swapped with older MXM cards like the go 7900s. Wishful thinking, most likely.

 

Well there have been references to a Mobility X1900 using the M68 core in ATI's drivers, although original roadmaps said it was to be released in Q2 2006 so that must have gone well. I think there is still room for the Mobility X1900 since it'll be a while, likely Q2 2006, until we really see DX10 mobile GPUs. Most notebook makers will probably wait until Santa Rosa, so they can do both refreshes at the same time instead of separately. A new mobile GPU may also help take some spotlight away from nVidia and the 8800 in the desktop space.

In terms of the actual configuration, I don't think ATI can manage a full R580 48 shader implementation. It just uses too much power. Instead, the M68 will probably be based on the desktop RV570 X1950Pro core using 12 pipelines and 36 shaders. With a 80nm process or a 90nm strained silicon process, they should be able to get reasonable power consumption numbers. Still likely high though since neither process offers dramatic power improvements over the regular 90nm process. Not sure if it'll have enough to definitively beat the Go 7950GTX, the 12 TMUs are definitely still a limiter, but it should catch up though, and assuming lower power numbers, it'll be worthwhile.

 

There is one thing that you forget mate... That is that nVidia has 3 months (until Santa Rosa comes out) to work on a mobile version of the 8800GTX. I think nVidia has the knowledge and technology to make a great mobile videocard in the upcoming 3 months.

I totally agree with you. I also think that if the X1900 will be presented it will feature the 80nm technology. That means same performance at lower Watt and heat. That can also mean more performance at same Watt and heat

Well Robgunn I think nVidia will indeed shrink it's videocard to 65 nm. nVidia has 3 months to do that, and I am sure they will.

When surfing the web for Mobility X1900 I also found results of the M68 that would be presented at Q2 2006 but it never was presented.
I think the X1900 will be the same as the X1950Pro. Same speeds, same amount of pipelines.

But you say ATI will refresh at the same time as nVidia. But ATI has not even released it's desktop videocards yet, so when will the mobile videocards come out? I think ATI has lost the battle for the Santa Rosa platform.

Charlie

 

Well, I must say that I don`t understand why FSC stuck to a x1800 for so long. It gets trumped by the 7900GS pretty badly. I`d love to get one of those x1900 for benching...

 

If nVidia do decide to shrink to 65 nm, then they can seriously put the pressure on ATI. I do agree if nVidia can sort this die shrink out in the near futur, they can probably get a decently powerful card into a DTR. nVidia do have the technology to do such a shrink, however, if the card is completed, it will cost alot.

Anyway, back to the Mobility X1900, I too think it may be based on a X1950 Pro arrangment. Its similar to what ATI did with the Mobility X1800, being very much like the desktop X1800 XL.

 

Well, about the heat issue with the x1800, if you remember correctly, the Go7800 was quite hot as well. I'm sure we all remember the stories of the Dell E1705s. But then they released the 7900GS and made MAJOR improvements in heat and power comsumption, while at the same time providing performance closer to the 7800GTX. It is likely the same will be true of x1900. The thing is, the first high end card for a given generation is typically the _800 series (x1800, 7800, 8800, etc.). By the time they get to the _900 series they have made major improvements to the way the card works. The Mobility x1900 should be no different IMO.

 

And in sort of an off-topic thing, why don't they make _500 series cards any more? I haven't seen one since the MR8500.

 

Well, any way, i really hope that ati will make DX10 card soon, both for desktop and mobile platform, otherwise the prices will be very high on the DX10 cards.

 

From what I understand, it won't be until next year, probably February, before a desktop version ATI DX10 will be released. That is quite a while, and leaves the gap,w ide open to nVidia to release somethine. They may release, or they may not release a mobile version. We'll just have to see.

Now, why is ATI taking so long. It may because they've run into problems with something, which is likely, or it may that nVidia has tken them completely by surprise, and gotten its DX10 cards onto the market very quickly. The other thing is that the R600 may be more advanced than the G80 and so there are alot more complicated aspects that need to be sort out, and it will take time.

 

hm... very strange, but you can already buy FSC XI1554 http://zoom.cnews.ru/ru/catalog/notebook/index.php?id166=39826&ext166=1 and it is saying them are in stock too. http://www.uti-note.ru/product122766231/

 

Indeed, it's very strange.

 

The strange thing is: why did ATI not present it's flagship notebook videocard? I just don't understand. How can a notebook with X1900 be sold if the videocard is not even released?

Charlie

 

beyond3d.com is speculating:

 

This is true the go 7800 was a hot and hungry GPU--I used to have one. When the go 7900 GS came out I was bumming.

Perhaps ATI has something up its sleeve?

 

Honestly that little glitch with the X1800's fabrication process seriously screwed up the timetables for ATI's X1xx series cards. I think we're seeing the aftershocks. Also the merger with AMD may have been another immediate effect, as well as the fact that ATI's current generation of chips cost twice as much to make as their nVidia counterpart.

 

May be is it just so that ATi is under AMD right now, and their is some desinhronisation in the organisation, thats why we see a new GPU in the store that have not yet been advertised from ATI.

 

Hey they stole my news post!

I am waiting for ATI's official release. I wonder what they are up to.

Charlie

 

Guys I called F&S today and they said that it isn't a typo: the X1900 does exist. It cannot be bought in Holland yet, but it will be released here in January for sure I think.

They gave me a phone number where I might order the notebook. I am not sure if I want to, because DX 10 and Santa Rosa is just around the corner

Charlie

 

Thats the thing Charlie. Why is Fujitsu Siemens releasing this notebook. It just seems a bit inconsiderate, with Santa Rosa and DX10 cards around the corner. Even if the Mobility X1900 is comptetive with the Go 7900 series, the new generation cards will be faster.

It may just be that ATI anticipates that nVidia will release their DX10 cards later, and it may think that it can at least get a decent card onto the market.

 

Problem is that the x1800 they have right now simply doesn`t cut it. DX10 cards won`t be around for months to come and they will sell this model probably for two more years. So a move from the x1800 to x1900 certainly makes sense. ATI probably had the engineering poured into it already.

 

Why ATI X1900 now? Well, why not, I'll buy one

At first I was deciding between DELL 1710 and RockDirect XCTX Pro,
but now FSC Amilo Xi 1554 is out & the price is way lower than the
Dell or RockDirect... Amilo is just GBP 955 - EUR 1420 - USD 1850,
for 2.0 GHz Core2 DUO, 1920x1200 LCD, 1GB RAM, 120 GB Disk etc,
with Slovenian 20% VAT included, while similarly configured XCTX Pro
with VAT & shipping is GBP 1505 - EUR 2210 - USD 2900. Dell is close.

For me, such price differences is surely too high to "excuse"
somewhat better Nvidia 7950 Go over ATI Mobility X1900...

Whatchathink?

 

Well the go 7950 GTX is a beast. But I'm sure the x1900 will perform very well too. It's a nice new option to have in the high-end segment.

I like those Amilo's .

 

Well, if you get one of those XI-1554 post your scores with it please. That would be really intresting how Ati Mobility X1900 performs.

 

Benchmarks? I want a full review!

Can't wait to see how a (80 nm?) X1900 with 256 MB will perform. Don't forget Oblivion benchmarks!

Charlie

 

Guys I was thinking about this card and I came up with this.

Remember the X1700 which is a better version (lower consumptions) then the X1600, but the performance is not much better.
I am afraid that the X1900 is also like an X1800 but a version that consumes less power.

What do you guys think about my theory?

Charlie

 

Well, when it comes to speculations, the Inquirer had a "theory" that the X1900 is a little bit faster and hotter than the X1800...

 

Well I think everything but hotter. The Inquirer is just talking non-sense, I am sure ATI is going to integrate their silicium strained technology in this new notebook. I think the X1900 mobility will score around 7000-7500 3dmark05 points.

Charlie

 

The current X1800 non-XT only has 12 pixel pipelines, so if the MR X1900 has more than that, then performance will definitely be higher. I don't think specifications can be found anywhere yet for the MR X1900, so it is hard to tell exactly how much better it will be.

 

The total number of shader pipelines is going have to increase. It has to be at least 24, to even compete against something like a 7900 GTX. If ATI really do want the performance crown, there have to develop something with a little more thought.

The only place we can get any details on this card, is from the FSC Xi 1554. Until somebody gets one, or gets to use one, then it will probably be this way for quite a while. We can speculate, but we need to have some factual information.

 

Charlie, since you've showed so much interest about that card recently, don't you wanna be "a proud owner" of F&S Amilo Xi 1554?