ATi Mobility HD 6000 series Roadmap

Except that AMD & nvidia don't use the same measure for the TDP they announce publicly, if I remember correctly nvidia measures the whole pcb's consumption & amd measures just the chip's. AMD reports a 50W TDP for the 5870M yet it gets hotter than a GTX285M or a GTX460M, they're definitely trying to bulls*** us on that.

 

Any legit news about this?

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everybody.

 

NVidia doesn't always include the whole board. Either way, the board only adds up to about 30W to the TDP, so there's definitely still room there that NVidia doesn't have.

 

Dream on. The MSI GX660 with HD5870M has a 120 watt PSU. Do the math before talking crap about AMD's conspiracy to use more power than Nvidia... Hint: i7 720QM TDP of 45W.

 

Oh, how I wish AMD would do this. I'd love a 100W 6990M, based from the 6870, or just a 6850 with less of it's bollocks toned down.

Where's Santa?

 

Probably trying to figure out the best way to obtain the arm and leg you'd need to pay to attain that card.

 

Still cheaper than a GTX 480M, I'd bet.

 

So ? What kind of PSU does the GX663 (or whatever the GTX460M version is called) have ? I bet it's the same, and the GTX460M is listed at 75W. By the way, would it kill you not to verbally assault your interlocutor every time you post ?

 

460m = 65w
470m = 75w

5870m = ~65w, give or take

Calm down, ziddy.

 

GX633 is an ultra light with GT 130M. Phinagle corrected me, the GT663 on the other hand does use 460M. But it is a Europe only model as far as we know so far, it is not available in the US. And as Phinagle has said, the 460M is so far the only Nvidia high end worth buying. But even at it's price, could ask for more performance. The 470M does perform as fast as my overclocked HD5870M at stock, but it's $700 card...

And FYI, Nvidia numbers for power usage is almost always wrong where reviews show 25 watts or more in actual use. And it has been shown that Nvidia does not always include the full TDP including board either.

MXM specs are 75 watts. But just like PSU can be pushed beyond their limit, seems the same with MXM.

I hope not. Carrying around a 240 watt power pack defeats the point of having a laptop. I just hope somehow 28nm tech will provide more performance at the same power useage. AMD did manage to make the HD6xxx to be more power efficient by about 15-25% which is very cool. The G73jh uses a 150watt power pack and I can tell you, it's HUGE. I personally don't get how Clevo/Alienware users with 240-300 watt power packs like carrying those around. There is a point where mobility becomes an issue and have to ask? What's the point, just buy a small form desktop then. I admit the 150 watt is just barely borderline unacceptable for me at least. A 100 watt AMD would definitely not be an option for me and I have question why someone would buy that over a desktop then...

Also from gaming perspective I don't see the need. Even with Metro 2033, the low power HD5870M can still handle high settings in DX10 with smooth framerate. It's not a online FPS shooter, so having 100 FPS for best hit detection because the hit detection is terrible is not an issue here. Same for Crysis. I haven't encountered any game that can't be run on high settings yet on these mobile systems. Before wanting more power, I'd wait until games begin to run poorly and that doesn't seem to be happening for a while. Games that will be released in 2012/2013 are being developed now on current tech. So I don't see a need for at least another few years.

 

MSI GT663 has the GTX 460M....soon to be MSI GT680 with Sandy Bridge.

MSI GX660 is the ATI version and will get "updated" to GX680 with the probably rebranded HD6870M with Sandy Bridge.

MSI GT760 is vaporware. <pre>(edit)...soon to be GT780 with Sandy Bridge.(/edit)</pre>

TDP is a sham.

 

I agree with your 'power supply' opinion. That's why I bought an 4830M with reasonable TDP (30W). Parts shouldn't go past 55W for notebooks.

Anyway I can understand people want something faster. 5870M is far from perfect, I don' t think you can run metro 2033 with it like you stated. In full HD it's just slow. AMD/ATI and nVidia have to lower their TDP of desktop cards. In 2007 it was possible to put a desktop part with a bit lower clocks into a notebook (7950GTX mobility, 1900XT mobility, etc.)
Now they are having problems with putting a (upper) midrange desktop card into a notebook. If this trend continous, we will have in 2015 500W graphic cards. Notebook graphics card will than be the (upper) low end...

I know people will disagree (and I hope the future proves me wrong, but...)
In 2007 people already said the 8800GTX TDP was insane, some years later we have to agree it's just a rather low TDP for a highend card...

 

I actually agree with you Devenox.

But things might change. The desktop market is slowly dying as everyone is getting a notebook now, GPU producers have to rethink their strategies if they want to continue to sell their products and make a profit.

Given how the market is now, it will soon make much more sense to first develop GPUs with notebook use in mind and then adopt them to the desktop market, not the other way around as it is now.

 

I am not the only one. Anyone with HD5870M can run Metro 2033 on high setting in DX10 or DX9 and all of them can also attest can barely see the difference between DX10 and DX11. Metro 2033 only slows down on very high with tessellation or DX11 DOF on.

But the game definitely runs faster in DX10 or DX11 mode than DX9, just turn off tessellation and hardware DoF and should have FPS 30-54 throughout the game.

 

I attest to the statement, I can run Metro 2033 with high fps in DX10 or even DX11 by disabling the extra features (Tessalation and DOF)

 

acutaly alienware's powersuplie is not that big
the legacy alienware like mine have a bick i could give some one a good forced sleep but the newer dellienware psu are quite slimer

 

True, the 240W PSU used with M17X-R1/R2 is quite slim.

 

Than you can't max it out if you have to disable settings and features...

If a 5850 DESKTOP card can't run this, how should a 5870 mobility run it??
And don't you want to be futureproof? I think bad company 2 is still to heavy for any (single) GPU notebook if you want to max it out (full hd, 4xAA, 16xAF WITH playable framerates)

 

Playing games at highest settings is great, however when you play BC2 on a 15 inch notebook with full HD screen you won't really need AA (it's really a ressource hungry feature and the difference on a small laptop screen isn't too big imo) A friend of mine plays BFBC2 on his laptop on highest settings but without AA, 1080p with vsync on and the framerate usually doesn't drop under 30. Quite playable imo even though he has just a single 460m...

 

No one said maxed out. High settings with DX10. Tessellation and DOF is not available in DX10. Nothing disabled. And the visual difference between high and very high are indistinguishable. And yes a 5850 can MAX out Metro 2033. There are plenty of videos of 5850 users who play Metro 2033 with DX11 on very high settings.

 

with lagg, indeed...

go check some benchmarks
Benchmark Results: Metro 2033 (DirectX 10/11) : GeForce GTX 480 And 470: From Fermi And GF100 To Actual Cards!
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,707055/Metro-2033-Benchmarks-with-DirectX-11-and-GPU-Physx/Practice/
>> Full HD, no MSAA, still not smooth on a 5850.

26FPS average is not smooth ...
It must be 45FPS avg before you can say a game is smooth (min FPS will be much lower than average)

 

I find your posts hilarious. It's almost as if you are upset that HD5870M users can play Metro 2033 on all high settings @ DX10. Did HD5870M did something to you be so upset over this? ROFLMAO.

Did you even play this game? With all the garbage you posted you must not have. Metro 2033 is not some godly game that crushes GPU, it's not like Crysis was. Get over it, your benchmarks suck and 5850 users can play Metro 2033 on very high with DX11 and no stuttering or slow downs, smooth gameplay.

45 FPS to be smooth? Get real, 30 FPS is plenty smooth for Metro 2033. Just saying this alone proves you didn't play this game. Come back when you've actually played it. Oh and tell the 100 million 360 and PS3 users that all their games don't have smooth framerate because you have to have 45 to say it's smooth. ROFLMAO again!

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EjxtyJH3Pe4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EjxtyJH3Pe4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width='640' height="385"></embed></object>

 

go look some real review not nvidia's marketing

 

Silly man
Watch it yourself not everything is maxed out in the game...
So you have a desktop 5850 and quadcore CPU @ 4Ghz in your notebook?

There is a difference between PC games and PS3/Xbox games... These games are CAPPED @ 30FPS. Which means you MINIMUM have 30fps.
That's different with PC where you can have 45FPS but MINIMUM fps of 20.
Go post that 30avg FPS is enough for shooters like crysis, bad company 2, metro 2033 on a pro gaming forum and paste their feedback back here
There is a difference between WATCHING something on a certain FPS and PLAYING on the same FPS.

It doesn't make me happy that a 5870M can't run the newest games on max. You said more power isn't needed. But it is!! notebook parts are running incredibly slow compared to desktop parts. (200%+ faster)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2_hq4EGNM8
wow, very smooth on 720p...

@granyte
and ?? nvidia benchmarks??? it's just a review where they compare, it's not a review made by nvidia.

Go search the internet, google is your friend!!
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5870.23073.0.html
See it yourself, maxed out: 10 FPS.
But yea, 10 fps is smooth

--------

I'm not here to bash notebook users (I own one too)
I'm just saying they are getting behind, way behind on desktop parts.

 

On the contrary, I think notebook parts are closing the performance gap with desktop parts at an incredible rate.

Five years ago, we wouldn't see a 15-inch computer packing the (relative-to-standards) power of a 5770.

 

No, it's the other way.
5 years ago they were able to put the highend card 7950GTX into a notebook. The part was a bit slower (~10%).
Now they only manage to put midrange desktop cards into a notebook.

let's say desktop gpu's are 4 times faster whereas notebooks 'only' get 2 times faster

 

I blame it on idiotic desktop GPU designs requireing ever more copious amounts of power

 

afcourse, it's ridiculous to make such hungry desktop GPUs, it makes it much more complicated to design fast notebook parts.
I think nvidia is to blame. They are lifting the limits time after time.
Fermi (300W+)
GTX 480M (100W+)
ATI/AMD is never the one that put a step towards a higher TDP. Only when nvidia does.

 

Well, IMO, ATi is a bit to blame here, too. They pushed the limits, first, with the HD2900XT. Though that ATi is gone, now. Changed into the newer, more power conscience face we see nowadays

 

8800 GTX wasn't much better, but anyway those still were below 200W, which is more reasonable than today standards...

 

Well, I think it was power/performance - sort of like the HD6800 vs the HD5800 series.

The 8800gtx drew less power than the HD2900XT, and also heavily trounced it in performance. The saddest part nowadays? nVidia has trouble topping the HD5970, yet it often draws more power than the twin Cypress cores!!

But back in the laptop world - I hate 100W TDP. It means its not a laptop part. A mobile desktop with limited upgradeability (and expensive parts) is what I would call it.

 

oops, bad typo :doh:

 

Notebooks with the rebranded mobile parts have started showing up in stores....in Singapore. [VR-Zone.com]

Funny that it says ATI Mobility Radeon HD6570 instead of AMD HD6570M.

I wonder if that's because it's a rebrand or because Intel doesn't want an AMD label next to theirs on the notebook.

 

well, 6570M is a 5650M/5730M. And highend will be 6970M.
That leaves a lot of room between them.

Hope they do the new 4D arch for the notebooks, it saves energy!

 

Well, it saves die space. Energy, not so much. It will use more power/mm, but the performance/power should still be the same

I do hope the 4D arch is better exploited in the future, but with the HD6900 series not really performing as well as initially thought.... it's a hard sell, IMO

 

Only Cayman will use the 4D arch until 28nm GPUs and/or AMD Trinity APU.

SemiAccurate :: What happened with AMD's Northern Islands?

 

To be fair, 5 years ago, only the largest 17" notebooks were able to pack the 7950 GTX. Now 2-3x more powerful GPUs are appearing in 11-13" notebooks. That is a large advancement of technology, regardless of from which end the GPUs are being pulled.

The Law of Physics says that it's impossible for notebook tech to keep up with the power being packed by the latest desktop GPUs. The 2x jump we saw between the 7950 and 8800M will be hard to duplicate until there's another significant architectural change. For now, we're stuck in this loop of 10-30% generational improvement

That said, that a desktop 6850 is about to be crammed into 15" notebooks is power we weren't imagining could go mobile, even a couple years ago.

 

It was sad if we were still in 7950 times ...
7950 is still more powerfull as you think, forget those speeds in 13".
7950 is still way faster than 5470M / G310M counterparts in 11"/13" notebooks

 

some one about the 7000M series, nothing special, just some basic stuff.

AMD's 28nm Mobility lineup revealed

Highend
256bit GDDR5

Upper midrange
128/192bit GDDR5

midrange
128bit GDDR3/5

...and some codenames

 

Once it's faster than the HD5650m in the Acer 3820TG, the GT335m in the Alienware M11x, or the GT330m in the Sony Z, tell me.


I can, of course, get a cheap-o laptop with a G310m in it, but I can surely bet the 7950gt was not cheap in it's prime. Nor was it in a 11-13" form factor.

 

You know that 90% of 13" don't have these graphics
And for 11" notebooks => none, unless they offer cpu performance like they did in the M11x.

But it doesnt matter, we are (almost) 2011, not 2005.

 

Already got a new thread going on it.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...28nm-mobilty-hd7000-series-coming-2012-a.html

 

I deleted some posts. Please stay on topic now.

Thanks

 

Will the 6550m overclock like a champ a la the 5650?

 

Well, it most likely is the 5650M, so.....

 

So what should we expect from a Sandy Bridge Laptop by the end of February as far as HD 6xxx? I am chomping at the bit to buy, but I'd rather get the latest tech video card with my Sandy Bridge CPU. For that matter, is the GTX 460m or GTX 485m about the only thing to expect from nVidia?

HD 5870 is a nice card, but it's kinda old as far as GPU tech goes.

 

The 6970M has already been seen in an Alienware laptop, so there's a good chance that at least one laptop with it will be out by the end of February.

Of course, we'll know in three or so days.

 

I can't wait to see what new goodies get shown at the CES this week. Hopefully we see some 6xxxM.

 

AMD Radeon 6630M spotted in the new Thinkpad E420S!
This begs the question: just another Madison rebrand or is this the first laptop with the new Whistler chip?

Lenovo ThinkPad Edge E220s and E420s unleashed, glossy lids and outdated processors left behind

 

That should be a new one. Too bad that "30" at the end probably means no GDDR5. :/