Alex St. John on The Death of Consoles

This is the best tech interview I have read in years. It was conducted by Extremetech.com (Joel Durham) and Alex St. John, co-founder and CEO of Wild Tangent and one of the creators of DirectX.

I recommend any fan of the PC as a gaming platform give this a good read, it offers what I'd call an 'alternative view' of the future of the gaming industry.

Read the Interview Here

Not much else to say, the interview speaks for itself. It's only 3 pages, so read it already!

UPDATE:

PART 2: Vista Blows.

 

Psh. I have to list out my points.

1. WildTangent. WildTangent the intrusive, bloaty, crappy game delivering system? Or WildTangent the spyware app? Wait, it's both.

2. Console gaming is easier, and is designated to stay that way for a long time. No installation, plug and play gaming. By the time your computer has booted up, I'm on level 2.

3. I can't think of a single game I've played on the PC that's worked on the first try. It's always install, crash, patch, search forums, debug, play, crash, debug, play. I can't think of a single game I've played on a console that hasn't worked on the first try.

Obviously this doesn't deter me from gaming on the PC, nor am I saying that the PC is bad for games, but this being the last generation of consoles? In your dreams.

 

Consoles will not die anytime soon, especially with microsoft, sony and nintendo around. I think the article is misleading, saying that money is not being made in the console market. They lose on the console itself, but do more than make up for it in software sales.

 

I think nintendo is actually turning profit on the wii console sales. Or at least it was with gamecube and I heard it was to continue with the wii. Either way he did point out that nintendo did somehow manage to get it right and not just right, but dead on this console generation. The wii might very well serve as the prototype for all future consoles but I don't think they'll ever die out. Especially for younger gamers. Your parents can't do their taxes and make spreadsheets on your playstation

 

Yea consoles are not gonna die anytime soon. From what ive heard, theres supposed to be another handheld from sony, and nintendo is supposed to have already started on another console.

 

1. Their ORB platform, sorry for handing out so much homework, but you really should check out this CNN Article on the subject so you can get an idea of how big a deal this really could be.

2. Console gaming has been easier than PC gaming for awhile now, but this article is on the future, not the present or the past. I could point to Steam as an example of problem-free PC Gaming, but I have myself experienced issues with at least 1 game. Then again, I also bought an XBOX360 that started eating my disks, which nobody will replace or refund... so I feel sort of biased towards PC gaming...where my stuff doesn't get turned into a 50$ coaster.

3. That is true now, but again, this article is about the future, not the past. If AMD/Intel keep to their promises, the next few years will be much simpler for PC gamers.

Consoles (besides the Wii, the only revolutionary console out there) have only recently started turning a profit in sales, but I don't think Sony or Microsoft really care so much about the games or the console sales, what they are marketing are Home Theatre devices. They put out consoles to push services like XBox Live (Movies, TV shows) that will settle them into a download market where they can gain a foothold against iTunes (Apple TV is the competitor).

To be honest, I feel that there will be at least 1 more console generation (5 more years post this gen), but that they will end there. After that point, it is more likely than not that hardware will be so homogenized that buying a console will be akin to buying a home media center PC.

Anyway, thanks for the replies! Good to see people making me re-consider my evangelistic protrayal of PC Gaming.

 

I guess I have a few problems with this article and what is being said.

1. Why would the average laptop or desktop user who only uses their computer for the web/email/word processing want to pay extra for a video card? He seems to just assume that everyone needs a dedicated graphics card and should be willing to pay the extra for it because of how awesome PC gaming is, even if they don't game. I'd be upset if my business notebook had a power-hungry dedicated graphics card, as it would just kill my battery for nothing.

2. Speaking of a dedicated graphics card, those tend to become obsolete awfully quickly. I bought a laptop almost 4 years ago that has a radeon 9200m that won't even boot newer games now. I completely accept this, and am happy to play my older games, but this is a problem no console has. I don't have to worry about someone releasing a game 4 years from now on PS3 and having not work on my first-release system because its hardware is inferior. The ease of having universal hardware that just runs and doesn't require a lot of tweaking by the consumer to get the best performance isn't going anywhere.

3. Finally, he mentions about how WoW is the most lucrative game ever. I firmly believe that this is because its incredibly scalable on all kinds of hardware. I've seen it run perfectly on a GMA950. It doesn't require a $2,000+ rig to play well, like a Crysis-type game does.

I enjoy gaming on a PC, but to say its going to replace consoles, especially by next generation, is pretty hard to believe. Maybe more developers should work to make incredible games that don't require silicon-melting equipment and the cost associated with it. Blizzard seems to be able to do this, and I still play Starcraft to this day. Integrated graphics aren't going away, and current ones do a pretty good job of rendering 3D. Why not make less demanding games, in addition to the beautiful ones released now, that cater to this huge market?

 

1. I don't think he was referring to dedicated graphics cards being shipped in everyone's computer. I think he was referring to the future (2009) "Fusion" type processors AMD and Intel will be releasing, where a GPU (or partial GPU) will reside in each and every processor they sell.

2. See point 1, universal hardware or at least scalable hardware begins in 2009 with more and more being integrated into a single chip. Theoretically we could end up with CPU/GPU/Audio all on a single proccessor in the near future. This is where the console model begins to merge with PC model and the distinctions melt away.

3. Too true, see Battlefield: Heroes and the Wii console for proof of your point.

 

Yeah that's true. These "all-in-one" chips would be great and I would be first in line to buy one if the GPU was equivalent to whatever the medium-level dedicated one was at the time. But I would still think Intel would cut corners because a lot of people simply don't need the ability to render massive amounts of polygons. People are going to want to pay less because they want nothing to do with gaming, even if it is an option. I made sure my mom's computer had a dedicated graphics card and told her should could play whatever she wanted. The most demanding thing she plays is a game called "Alice's Garden" .

 

Never heard of them, but that doesn't make their points any more or less valid, does it?

Really?
And they don't need to patch either?

No, you're right, *sometimes* console games are easier and require less effort to get started. But it seems a lot of recent console games are moving towards a much more PC-like "experience". 20+ minutes install times, regular patches, the whole thing... If *that* is the future of console gaming, then what was the advantage over PC's again?

Always? How many games have you played? Might be time to get your PC fixed.

You're luckier than most then

Agree there, at least.
However, I do think that this generation of consoles is moving dangerously close to PC territory. They're forcing gamers to deal with the same issues and annoyances that have traditionally been PC territory. And if that trend continues, we *will* get to a point where console gaming is just pointless.

Of course, console gaming won't die today, tomorrow or 3 years from now.
But Sony and Microsoft could cause consoles some long-term pain with their insistence on making consoles more PC-like. Installing, patches, bugfixes and crashes, red ring of death, going hand in hand with higher hardware prices (The PS3 was close enough to the price of a high-end PC. Imagine what the PS4 will cost when it comes out, if the trend continues).

 

Console makers, well Sony in particular, have done an excellent job of targeting the home theater crowd. Do I want to pay $399 for a PS3 that has blu-ray, internet, and gaming capabilities or do I want to pay $399 for a blu-ray player? For us, the choice was clear... PS3. While I will probably always enjoy gaming on my computer much much more than on a console, the console is fun when you have company. Sure, with a PC, you can play online with your friends or have them drag their rig over and have a LAN party, but it really is simpler to go the console route when you just want to have a game night.

With all that said, the PC is far superior for FPS games... call me a fanboy if you want, but there is currently no substitute for a mouse and keyboard.

 

Everyone here is missing the main and most beloved aspect of console gaming, and I am appauled.

Split screen or co-op mode with your friends?

Im talking, your pals come over and you grab a wii for some 2v2 wii tennis or ffa golf.

Or everone grabs ye old N64 for goldeneye fun.

Pick up a 360 for halo 3 FFA smackdown or some COD4.

Or racing right next to eachother in Forza 2.

Smakin down in Super Smash, shooting shells in mario kart!

What is wrong with you people?

Consoles are entertainment systems.

They entertain you on your TV with minimal fail, and are aimed towards everyone and not just the tech savvy.

Not to mention it's so much fun to play cod4 with your friend rather then show it to him on your laptop.

Consoles aren't going anywhere boys.

The wii is the future: A console aimed towards fun with other people.

The 360 has found it's way into my heart through a really good online experience.

And the PS3? well... I guess it's cheapER blu-ray?

 

Here it is plain and simple Consols won't die because they are purpose built games designed for consoles work perfectly they are easy fun and compared to any decent gaming computer cheap.

 

more pc games are also becoming co op

heck, GoW came to pc with coop and you can play with a friend over the internet or they bring their notebook over and you don't have to play the game on a single tv where its like you're looking at a strip of image

(though GoW has some really screwly bugs. CURSE YOU MICROSOFT VISUAL C++ RUNTIME ERROR!! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

that is wii

i don't see how it can't be implemented for the PC.

making a wii controller for the pc would be as easy as making the xbox controller for pc.

its not a technological problem

heard of LAN?

consoles = stripped down versions of PC optimized for gaming

maybe for now, but in the future, why have 2 system when you can have 1 pc handle all your needs?

the 360 is a damn pc

not really. prices of BR-rom have been dropping. i've seen them for $160-170 CAD, so should be around the same or cheaper in the US

 

more pc games are also becoming co op

heck, GoW came to pc with coop and you can play with a friend over the internet or they bring their notebook over and you don't have to play the game on a single tv where its like you're looking at a strip of image

(though GoW has some really screwly bugs. CURSE YOU MICROSOFT VISUAL C++ RUNTIME ERROR!! CURSE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Yes PC games are coop but you WILL STILL NEED 2PC's or more to play COOP unlike CONSOLES.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
that is wii

i don't see how it can't be implemented for the PC.

making a wii controller for the pc would be as easy as making the xbox controller for pc.

its not a technological problem
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Yes it is easy to make a controller for the PC but How much additional stuff will you need to do to your PC before it can do the stuff that a wii can do.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
heard of LAN?
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Heard of people who has no money to buy decent graphics card or even buy a PC?(I only play at a friend XBOX to play Halo3,)(My laptop is only a gift)
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
maybe for now, but in the future, why have 2 system when you can have 1 pc handle all your needs
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Well 2 consoles cost less than 1 pc for gaming
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

I think that was a great interview, and true.

It is the truth, PC's are superior in every way, but unlike consoles, we have a crappy software overhead to deal with, where as consoles do not, the game goes directly to the hardware. I think we could probebly achiev several times the performance without the operating system to go through.

I've been saying for years that the PC could become increadibly cheaper and faster than any console if there were a mini OS built into the motherboard of PCs that you can choose to boot to purely for games, that bypasses an unneccisary GUI all together. This could allow the game companies the DRM they want, and in turn I believe they will drop dedicated consoles alltogether for the higher profit.
Consoles are NOTHING more than a cheap PC with a custom OS with included hardware DRM.

I agree with everything this guy said. And what he said about the Wii is exactly whaT I've been saying. Nintendo is turning massive profits and making alot of sales because of what it did. They offered something different in terms of gameplay, but used very old technology to make the console extremely profitable. They literally used a custom ATI GPU that was designed for pure profit. It's actually worse in performance and tech than the ati 9700, but got away with it because they promised, and delivered, something different.

Btw, about the Wii, my laptop has infrared built in, and a webcam, and blu-tooth, all of which can be used to effectively create a better wii controller for the PC withouth ANY addons to my notebook, not even plugging anything in..

 

your main problem with PC gaming is the cost, which i don't foresee as a problem in the future

as games are getting photorealistic, and when you reach that point, there's really nothing to strive for (except VR) and prices will decrease on components.

just think, in around 2 years, notebooks having the gpu power of the 8800m will be budget notebooks. the 8800m leaves much to be desired, but provides graphics quality acceptable to many.

move that idea forward in time. in 10 years, the budget notebooks should have gpu power better than any desktop today, will our opinions of graphics change so much as to consider crysis (and probably many more pretty games in 5 or so years down the road) so ugly as unplayable?

i don't think so, and that is why in the future, consoles will die as gpu power becomes cheaper and cheaper in a more portable form


EDIT:

@unknown555525, your IR port is nothing like the wii IR port. not enough resolution/power/sensitivity.

it would be easy to impliement wii controller technology, but not without mods and drivers

 

Ummmmmmmmmmm

I think budget notebooks with 8800m will be a little farfetched

I get your point but do you also get the point that IF what you are saying is true that GPU prices will go down won't Consoles, since they also use GPU, be much cheaper also in the future

 

well, there is a critical point where its just not profitable to make something

i just think that at some point, technology will become so cheap that the purpose of consoles, to bring quality games at a low price, just won't be profitable anymore.

ah well, time will tell

we might encounter an alien race tomorrow who'll give as a chip in our head and we can play around in our heads

 

well time will really tell
(what alien race will be so kind to us to give us chips in the head(although realtime the technology is right here already) that is from the bible, known as 666(please i beg of you not to do that)

 

oh no, please don't bring religion in

 

Hey, for some of us gaming is our religion.

The guy makes some great points that I can only agree with. But some of it predicates around the idea that all gamers want to play online with big communities. I don't know the stats, but is that really where most gamers are? Apart from PBEM games of some of the Civilization games, I have never been involved in any online game, and I don't give two figs for online play in FPS or Strat games.

For me, gaming is something I do to relax on my own once I've got back late from work. Without all the hassle of finding people online and setting games up etc. I'll just play the Ayer's Rock Nod mission in C&C3 again, or advance a little further in FarCry. I don't care about rankings, and I really don't want my precious game time to disgruntle me like being crushed quickly in a game by someone who has memorised all the shortcut keys and read all the forums. For me, although I have only ever had a PC and don't see myself getting a console anytime soon, a console would let me do all that quickly and easily.

The second gaming experience I occasionally have is with a few friends clustered around a console or two, linked up. Massive online communities? Get lost - why would you need those, unless you are really passionate enough about a game to really want to get into it? Sure, I've done that at times, but most games I just want to play for fun and that is IT.

 

no one brings rigs anymore to lan parties lol. all of us have laptops. i gotta lug my vostro 1500 to play CoD 4 at a friends house. and always on wifi. no cables and crap ^^

as for consoles dying? another doomsday sayer, technology is very unstable and ive heard so much crap about future predictions it really doesnt matter anymore. come what may. i love my xbox360 tho i hardly online, halo 3 and gears of war is hella fun ^^ and nba 2k8!

 

Well, the article is very regular at the best. I think it is filled with: 1) crap (when talking about the present), 2) too many fantastic dreams, and 3) the facts are kind of deformed.

Let me explain why I say those points:
1) He starts from a basis that every computer is a gaming computer, which is totally wrong. A computer is a multitasking system and not a standalone gaming system. I would agree with one of the previous post that if an alternate mini OS (gaming-only) could be used only for gaming could solve at least some efficiencies problems.
2) He is talking about his vision of the future. Anyone can do that. He is working on a pc-gaming industry. So yes, he has to talk very high and disregard the competitors (consoles), simple marketing, no more.
3) World of Warcraft. While being a success it is only one game, it is a Blizzard success, not all the industry, reason why many games are released for pc and consoles (i.e. Gears of War, Bioshock, COD4, Assassin's Creed, etc.).

Now, I think it is good to look at new ways to improve efficiency (CPU/GPU on the same die, etc.) but until there are hard facts, the reasonable stand is to pay attention but not get overwhelmed by fastastic stories of a possible future.

 

I'd be curious to see the numbers on "the average console gamer plays more pc games" as to see what exactly that means.

Personally I don't think consoles are going away anytime soon, especially now with Nintendo reaching out to more casual players, and those who may not have played games before. And that seems to be working. Honestly I think the console market will only expand as it has, more and more people exposed to it. I mean I know people that would never have bought a video game console that bought a wii. And now its had a domino effect everyone wants in on the casual market.

Also most everyone has a pc, thats very true.. but most people who aren't hardcore gamers, never really see the pc as a gaming device. They think the must buy a playstation, or a nintendo if they want to enjoy a solid game.

I don't know, its nice to see someone not overly negative about the pc gaming market, but to say it will overtake console gaming seems overly optimistic..

 

New update, part two of the interview is posted for those interested.

Part 2: Vista Blows.

 

nice read, especially the second parrt

 

Consoles are made for gaming.

And personally I love both keyboard and mouse as well as consoles.

And I think it's funny when people say controllers suck.

It's just because they are gimp with them!

Be a good gamer and be good at gaming!

 

I was going to buy a Xbox 360 just for Mass Effect but now that EA is releasing it for the PC I won't have to get a Xbox 360 now.

 

Too bad I already bought 3 copies for my Xbox 360. Although it already ate two of them.

 

This CEO is full of crap, hates consoles because he'd need to send money to the console makers to make a game, and hates Vista because IT BLOCKS HIS LOVELY SPYWARE APP

HTML:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/30/vista-security-too-tight-on-casual-games-claims-wildtangent/

 

And it's enjoyable howpeople start to agree when he Vista bashes.

Whats even more enjoyable is that a SPYWARE MAKER IS SAYING VISTA IS TOO SECURE.

Enjoy your spyware while you bash.

 

I actually like Vista and think he is unreasonable in its case. His arguments about homogenization are what I'm interested in and are the more relevant point.

 

I suppose that when he is talking about “market” he means the “hardcore EU-US gaming market”.

During the eighties the first video game companies had to create “gamers”. So obviously they had to provide easy tool to acess this new way of entertainment.
Nintendo has been very successful at this game. It is in their corporate culture to create easy to access entertainment since the company is a survivor coming from a one hundred years card game manufacturer.

Sega joined Nintendo and was taking a market share. The situation lasted until beginning of the nineties. Mature game consumers where enough for profits and Nintendo and Sega were fine until Sony decided to challenge them for the success we all know. Then Microsoft took a market share part as well and Sega had to resign.
While the number of hardcore gamers was increasing it was not enough for the investment and only big players (big industry group which doesn’t only focus on this market) would survive. So Nintendo did was they always do : attract new customers which never played before.

I live in Japan and you can see how this company attract people to gaming from 7 to 77 years old.

It explains why Microsoft with Xbox 360 or PC games is not successful here. Yes almost everyone is gaming: everyone! But no, they are not the same “hardcore gamers” that we refer too.
And when I see the success of Nintendo around the world right now I truly think that “console” (cheap plastic entertainment box) are not going to die anytime soon.

I don’t like Wii, I don’t like DS and I have been always a Personal Computer fan from Sinclair Spectrum, Amstrad, Atari ST, Amiga, 286,386, etc!
In Japan it was the same, hardcore gamers were playing on MSX not on Famicom.
My point is, the hardcore gamers that we are are going to grow in number but it will never have the potential of casual gamers market.

PS3 and Xbox 360 are close to the PC market but they left all the casual gaming market to Nintendo!
Membership for WoW is nothing compared to old people who plays Brain games in the train in the next years.
And only hardcore gamers care about pirating games not casual gamers.

Nintendo understood it and this guy still don’t get it.