Apple MBP vs PowerNotebook PowerPro J 10:15 Supra

It's college time, and it's time for me to get my first notebook!

Having said that, I recently posted in "What laptop I should get" and narrowed it down to two choices:

$1800 Apple MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa)
2.2GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR2-667
120GB@5400 HD
Go 8600GT 128MB
15" 1440x900 LED Display
Wireless Intel a/g/n
Bluetooth 2 EDR
DVD-RW
Backlit Keyboard
Magsafe adapter power thingy
Apple remote (no clue what it does)
Semi-good webcam thing (iCamera? )
1 year warranty
$200 off iPod (which I don't have so I can actually use this rebate)
$100 off printer (translates into free el cheapo printer)

VERSUS *Mortal Kombat Theme Song plays NOW!*

$1485 PowerPro J 10:15
2.0GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR2-667
120GB@5400 HD
15.4" 1440x900 Matte Display
Go 8600GT 512MB
4-in-1 Memory card reader
Wireless Intel a/g/n
Bluetooth 2 EDR
DVD-RW
3 Year Warranty

It looks like its coming close to the wire on this. They essentially have the same specs/pricing. The only major differences are Apple's remote for the PowerPro's memory card reader, MBP's 10% CPU clockspeed advantage, LED Display on the MBP, more available video memory (I am assuming the PowerPro is listing dedicated memory, not the TurboCache ><) on the PowerPro, and warranty. The Apple is an apple, with good build quality and MacOS. The PowerPro also has good build quality, but a bit more on the ugly duckling side. It is also probably heavier, but I don't know this for a fact. I also enjoying playing games on a regular basis, and while the laptop does not need to run at high settings, the games should look pretty and run smoothly. Will the 128MB on the 8600GT on the MBP be a hindrance in practical usage? I'm rambling now, so I'll stop, but not before I sum it up:

* Does the MBP have any advantages over the PowerPro that are not immediately apparent (like feel, customer support, less dead pixels, etc)?
* Will the 128MB of video memory on the MBP hinder moderate settings gaming on titles such as Quake 4?
* Is the 3 year warranty a significant advantage of the PowerPro over the MBP?

I ask you these questions because you know a lot more than me. I thank you for any help you can give me in advance!

P.S.: should also mention windows xp and linux will all be inhabiting this computer. Vista maybe, but only if I am forced too =)

 

I recommend the PowerPro, we all know that the bottleneck for gaming is the video card. Your comparing 128 MB to 512 MB discreet memory. There is a review out right now for the MacPro and in the benchmarks it showed that the Mac was constrained with the lower video card memory.

As far as performance is concerned I'd say the PowerPro definitely will out perform the Mac. Not only does it outperform, it is a MUCH better value. With the money you save from buying the PowerPro you can afford to get a custom paint job if looks are that important to you. Also, the three year warranty is nice.

 

I second that. Better value, and definitely better performance gaming wise. I don't know about Apple, but I know powernotebooks.com will definitely provide good customer service, and 3 yrs warranty service is worth it for such a huge investment.

 

My own choice would be the Mac - I have several - but I'm not a gamer. Have never read anything about PowerNotebooks which wasn't positive, though. I think a gamer should go with the PowerPro. Macs aren't really known as gaming machines, though they're improving in that area.

 

Okay, so I have the higher 2.4ghz, 256mb video Macbook pro, and I can tell you a couple of things about it.

Let's take the configs you posted:

First, PowerPro - I've never heard of a 512mb of 6800m GT before. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of a 512mb version. 2.0ghz processor speed. No "el cheapo" printer, no iPod. But it's $350 cheaper. And it has the memory card reader, and is probably heavier than the mac.

And now the mac:

1" thick. Magsafe "thingy" - I've actually destroyed one of my friend's laptop by accidentally tripping on the cord, the laptop went to the ground, and the LCD was cracked right on the middle. Ouch. I never thought I'd say this about a laptop: It's ****ing sexy! All the pictures you see online do not make it justice. It's just unbelievably sleek. The "semi-good iCamera" thingy is one of the best webcams around. Even though it's 640x480, it's waaay better in quality than a 2mpixel one.

In conclusion, if you don't care too much about the Mortal Kombat theme song, I'd recommend getting the mac. I've been a windows guy all my life, and now I'm really glad I got this Macbook Pro. And if your pockets allow, maybe you can throw in the extra $500 to get 2.4ghz of processor, the 256mb of video ram and the 160gb of hdd. For some, that's alot of money. But if you have somewhat of a steady income, you'll be kicking yourself on the next paycheck because you didn't get the better version.

Get the mac.
Just my two cents there.

edit: If you're into gaming (and I believe that's why you went with the dodgy 512mb (?) 6800) I must tell you the gaming in Windows Vista on the mac is just perfect.

I play the following: Pro Evolution Soccer 7, HL2 + ep1, FEAR, Oblivion, GTA San Andreas, and except for Oblivion (which I have it on High, but no AA) the rest of the games deliver great play on very high settings -maxed out- and 30-40+ fps.

So there you go with that to

Anyways, whatever you choose in the end, just be happy with what you get and enjoy your new baby!

 

Thanks for all the input so far! I've emailed the Powernotebook representatives to see if I can receive an educational discount and if the 512MB of video memory is discrete or shared.

 

I can tell you right now that the 8600 GT 512MB on the PowerPro is discreet. The PowerPro has twice the discreet memory as the Mac, and can turbo cache for more if needed. cdnalsi probably misread your post cause he keeps referring to the 6800GT which doesn't have 512MB.

However, I do think that 256MB is probably the sweet spot for video memory though. I would say that the core clock and memory clock on video cards is far more important than the amount of memory. With 128MB you'll run into some bottlenecks but with 256 you'll have enough indefinitely. The 8600 GT doesn't really have the ability to use 512MB effectively so the gains vs 256MB will be close to none.

Most people buy the Mac for the looks, and obviously state so. For me, looks come second to performance and value. The three year warranty will be important especially if it's your first time buying a notebook. As notebooks have a much higher failure rate for their components than the desktop counterparts.

 

If you want better gaming performance go with the powerpro. The 512 will outperform (I can not be sure by how much though) the 128 meg, for a much lower price point. If you want versatility (the ability to dual boot) and sexiness, then go with the MBP. Both offer alot in the warranty department (Apple if you get apple care) and will make sure your notebook lasts you a long time.

 

the 128MB in the Macbook pro runs at 700mhz and will perform better at low resolutions then the 512MB in the PowerPro which runs at 400mhz. At higher resolutions the 512MB can be made use of and they will perform similar or the PowerPro will perform better.

 

wave, are you sure about this? Is there anywhere I can go and double-check this data for myself?

I got an email back from the PowerNotebooks representatives; the 512MB of video memory is discrete but they do not offer educational discounts.

 

I support wave's statement. The 512MB version of the 8600gt runs its memory at GDDR2 (400MHz) speeds while the MBPs 128MB and 256MB versions run their memory at GDDR3 (700MHz) speeds. This isn't a DRASTIC increase in actual performance, but it does mean that the 512MB version will probably never have the bandwidth to utilize all of its memory. 256MB is definitely the sweet spot in this competition, although I would go with the 512MB if it were GDDR3.

From all of the bazillions of threads on this topic, it has been said that the 8600gt will start caching memory (if it needs it) if you boot the MBP into Windows. OSX doesn't seem to take advantage of this feature.

If you were comparing the 512MB to the 256MB, this would be so much easier. As it stands I would go with the MBP if you are feeling adventurous, but if you would please list the kinds of games you plan on playing so we can estimate what kind of impact difference the two will have.

 

Macbook Pro. Much nicer, it's only 1" thick!! , and has an LED backlight display which helps your battery life.

 

If you go for the mac, do spring for the warranty. It costs a bit, but the service they give you with applecare is very good. Also, though the mac is thin and sexy and sturdy, my anecdotal experience is that internal problems will make you end up using the applecare in the end. Of my six friends with macs, only one of them hasn't had to send theirs in for some sort of repair...yet. That said, they've all been impressed with how apple handled such repairs. I sympathize with your decision, I'm agonizing over the same one. If you aren't in too much of a hurry and can wait until August, you might want to take a gander at the MSI 163a/GX600. It seems to be pretty similar to the IFL90 you're considering (the PowerPro that is)

 

I may be able to wait until then, but may...depending on what the GX600 is packing =)

I do play the latest and greatest games, but usually a few months after the prices have dropped and not at the best settings. I'm quite content with medium settings if I can gain a more portable laptop in return, and I don't intend on gaming that much. That said, I really don't want to play Quake 4 anything less than 1024x768 resolution =)

Quake 4 is the most demanding game I'm playing so far. Other games include Starcraft (even a mac can run this , C&C3, and a host of free games. I've been able to run these all quite comfortably on my BFG 6600GT OC. I want to be able to play games 3 years from now, but I don't expect them to be cinematic quality =)

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

shameless bump, I'm still split on which to get =)

 

After all this brilliant advice?? Go to Starbucks and have a mocha - it'll help clear your mind and make your decision easier. A great mocha always helps during stressful times.

 

Good idea, bmwrob. I guess I'll sleep on it, go out, and focus on other things. I think the right decision will come to me.

Thanks to all the notebookreview forum members for helping me out! You guys certainly did offer excellent and specific advice, and now I shall have an excellent laptop thanks to that! =)

 

I feel like any input I give might be kicking a dead horse, but hey the more the merrier right?

I'd price for performance the PowerPro beats the MBP in all aspects. I personally ordered a PowerPro myself, but I got the 1280x800 screen, which comes with a 8600m GT 256mb GDDR3, otherwise same specs. Not that I have it yet.

Macs are very nice looking, and applecare is quality but expensive. On the othe rhand I've heard nothing but good stories from powernotebooks warranty as well, though I've experienced applecare first hand.

Have a nice sleep.

 

Just as a side note on performance...i have the 2.2 mbp (128mb 8600gt), and I run the quake 4 demo under osx with all the options maxed out @ 1024x768 and it runs very smooth...no noticeable lag except when i come from an indoor area to an outdoor one. There are tons of threads around that say that the 128 should run most games at medium settings...and as a recent switcher to apple...let me say that this laptop just blows any other one ive seen out of the water (sonys, dells, ect...)...the damn thing is tiny, fast, has a incredibly bright screen, and still manages to get 3.5 hours of battery life! Go check one out at an apple store if you can, youll love it. (and play with an iphone while your at it...greatest...phone...ever.)

 

Except, in the reviews I've read, when in use as an actual phone!

Sure looks cool, though. Must be fun to use.

 

You should also consider taxes and shipping costs in your comparison. Chances are you won't pay taxes on the PowerPro because it is in another state. Chances are you will pay taxes on the MacBook because Apple does business in your state. That was the case for me when I checked out the MacBooks. That can make a significant difference in price. Shipping costs also vary.

You should also make sure you understand the difference between warranties and make sure that you get the warranty you want. If a 1-year warranty is enough for you, you should take a look at the Sager NP2090 which is a Compal IFL90 branded by Sager. (The PowerPro you are looking at is also a Compal IFL90, just like the Sager NP2090.) If you buy a Sager NP2090 with 1-year warranty, it will be cheaper than a PowerPro J 10:15 with similar specs. You can find the Sager at PowerNotebooks and XoticPC.

Also, there's an alarming number of horror stories from MacBook owners on Consumerist. Too often, Apple finds reasons to avoid honoring its warranty. Some of those stories end well after the customers fire an email to Steve Job. Yippee! My take on those stories is that the customers should not have been given the runaround by Apple in the first place and should not have had to go through hoops to get service. In one case, one customer was without a functional MacBook for several weeks (if not months). See this story story in particular.

 

This is kinda late post (4 days already) but nonetheless, it seems the core clock normal is at 375MHz and memory clock normal is at 503MHz for the MBP
http://www.barefeats.com/santarosa.html.
While the IFL90 (the Sager NP2090 version) has normals at 475MHz and 400MHz.
No max values are known for the Sager.

Again, it doesn't matter if it's GDDR2 or GDDR3 as long as the clocks are the same, they will give out the same performance. Also, the little difference in performance should not be significant (maybe a 3~7 fps difference, my guess) at decent resolutions. IMO, spending all that extra money for the MBP is not worth it because lots of it will go to the Apple branding and "bragging rights" of MBP. IFL90 offers a much better performance-to-money ratio.

 

it DOES matter if its gddr2 or gddr3 because the clocks ARE NOT the same.

at least on the models we have seen so far.

also- go ahead and install windows xp on your mac if you want to play games. quake 4 will run maxed out in 1440x900 (native res) happily, with room to spare even, instead of 1024x768 (osx)

personally, i have enjoyed osx so much that its worth it to me to have, even if it meant 128 megs of vram. its not about bragging rights. osx is a really good operating system.

and the 128 meg card will beat the 512 meg card in low resolutions, as stated above, because of the faster memory clocks in the macbook pro. in higher resolutions the 512 card will almost certainly win.

however- if it was between a 256 meg card and an underclocked 512 meg card, the 256 would win hands down, because the 8600m gt is about fast enough to work with 256 megs (maybe slightly more, but not the full 512)

if it was between a 256 meg card and a 512 meg card and they were both clocked properly, then the 512 meg card would be the obvious choice.

But- all of these cards are 8600m gt. their performance will vary, but not THAT much. i agree the difference will be 3 to 7 fps at most at framerates between 30 to 60. (so you might get 30 fps where a different card gets 33 - or 60 where the other card gets 66)

 

No, the problem is we don't know what is the maximum memory clock of the 8600M GT in IFL90.

And yes, the clocks are not the same. The core clock of the 512MB IFL90 is faster than the core clock of the MBP, while the memory clock was 400 vs. 500. But those were under normal circumstances, without any stress applied to the GPU. I don't know whether the IFL90 has a variable clock, but it sure make sense to have one.

Then again, even to have a slower memory clock for the IFL90 at maximum performance would only mean a very small decrease in performance, if any. IMO, that little drop is not worth the $500 or so spent on the MBP.

 

masterchef341, that's all hot air until you have actual FPS with actual games to compare the various setups you're talking about.