Ati Overclocking

Yes - with default 350/330, I get 2800 in 3DMark05. My X700 has 256MB of dedicated GDDR2 Memory.

Got it dumped

Remember, my card is different. It's also an AXIOM modular X700.

 

thanks!

but - indeed your card is different! something is actually _very_ different, i can't even open it with RaBIT! "no bios signature found".. does this bios support powerplay?

didn't even know that axiom cards have ever been produced, how old is your laptop?

 

My laptop is really new - released middle of October. If you'd like to see pics of the GPU itself, they are at the bottom of my review

It's an AXIOM alright...pretty cool. There are very few notebooks with a 256MB X700.

I'll check to see if it has PowerPlay.

 

interesting, but i cannot get a clear look at the card, have you got a picture of it with the heatpipe removed? i really cant believe it's axiom, i have seens 100s of MXM laptops but i have never ever seen an axiom laptop!

 

I asked the Sager dealer. They said it was AXIOM, and so does Clevo...

And you can tell, because when the heatsink is removed, you can see the M26 GPU in the center, with the memory surrounding. If you look at some pictures of AXIOM cards, you will know that it is AXIOM as well.

 

Maybe Europe gets ships of MXMs and America AXIOM. Or maybe they are so similar that people autamatically connect MXM with Nvidia, and AXIOM with ATi. I have also HEARD of AXIOM, but never actually seen one. Chaz, you are obviously right, and you must have an AXIOM card in your SAGER, although my card by description is same as yours and it is MXM. But in the end, both formats should do the trick, or not? I really don't care while both can be plugged into my notebook. Or not? Pictures show AXIOM cards with different black connector on the back side of the card, while MXM looks like ordinary card with connectors along one side. Again other sites say that for us people it is the same. Also formats of MXM (type I,II,III) look same to me, the card is just growing bigger. I wonder, as I have a lot of space around my card if I will be able to connect bigger (stronger, more VRAM) cards into my notebook? I'll check that once.

The only important thing is that both can be OVERCLOCKED. Haha.

Cheers,

 

Ha - yep I don't really care if it's MXM/AXIOM - just has to be overclockable.

The different MXM formats are for different classes of notebooks. I is for ultraportables, II is for thin and lights, and III is for desktop replacements. They are different sizes as well.

Yes, the AXIOM cards have different connectors - there's a special name for the connector, I can't recall the name right now. The AXIOM's is on the bottom, and the MXM's looks like memory pins, on the side. MXM also looks more like a card, whereas the AXIOM is a modular GPU - rectangular.

 

yup!
as you have the same motherboard as me i can assume that this goes for you too.. it seemslike even MXM-TYPE 2 cards fit into our notebooks, but i am not sure as the heat specifiaction for MXM-TYPE 2 cards is higher than for TYPE 1 cards..
as uniwill produced our notebooks and i guess they're producing a board that can carry almost anything so OEMs have no problem with their setup i guess we could plugin plugin an TYPE 2 card... the only difference between mxm types are the heat, boardsize and memsize iirc.

 

Good news! Now we have only one problem. Where to buy MXM type 2 card? Or any other card?

BTW this is from my manual:

Graphic Accelerator
n-Vidia NV43M (GeForce Go 6600)/ ATI M26 2D / 3D graphic
engines with 64/128/256 VRAM.

I presume 256MB is still MXM type 1 flavor?

I also sent an e-mail to one service center that was helpful before, and asked them about MXM type 2 and 3... We'll see.

 

Actually, the Go6600 is MXM Type II.

Hm..where to buy..that's a good question. You can probably order it as a spare part from a dealer. I know you can get them from Eurocom.

I'll have to find out about my laptop later. I would be interested to find out if it was MXM capable. Does your module look anything like mine Ivan?

 

Chaz i have just seen on hothardwares review of the mobility x700 that an x700 with 128mb of memory supports ddr ddr2 or GDDR3 dose this mean that what ati tray tools is saying could be true, what do you think? are there any other pices of softwear that i can cross refeance tray tools analysis of my gpu?
thanks.

 

yep it "could" be true, but it's always better to double check. you can use catalyst control center - it comes with the 5.12 driver if you have installed it with it ofcourse
as an alternative you can use Ati tray tool, which is one of my favorite tools. (view sys info by: right clicking tray icon, hardware-> system information)
downloads:
5.12 driver: http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=17
ati tray tool: http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=7

chazman, you can view pictures of his/mine (should be nearly the same) motherboard here - pictures are taken from an amilo 1667g and have a **** high resolution so prepare to wait if you're on a slow connection
http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=24

 

for some reason ccc never wants to work on my computer. dont know why windows stops itself from booting. but still.
got Ati tray tool thats what started this. dose anyone know if its ever wrong?
are there any others apart from these two programs?

oo and also seeing as im asking all these questions about if i have GDDR3 memory, what would the benifits actualy be from having it, if any, including benifits to overclocking.
ati says that x700 mobility radions stock speeds for both memory and core should be 350, soo i wonder why there not. the x700 realy is held back by low mem speed and amount though.

cool pictures on that link its a lot more open plan design, big heat sink.
is it used for both the processor and gpu?

 

check out rivatuner, not sure if it's capable, but it's worth a try: http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=3
ati tool can also give you information about the ram you are using:
http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=6

i think your notebook is also using one heatsink for both the CPU and the GPU, that's common practice nowadays
if CCC is not working I would uninstall it (controlpanel,software), then you can access the CCC features using the display-settings (right click on the desktop, properties, advanced...)

 

unfortunatly riva tuner only has limited suport for ati gpu's and couldnt tell me any more it didnt allow you to overclock an ati gpu for example.
and ati tool for some reason didnt support the x700 for the memory bit of the app could oc the card ok though.
however it did recognise the power play feature because on the specs for the card it said it only had 4 active pixle pipelines ect.
thanks for your sugestions though

 

Hi Chaz,

Just for you I opened my notebook and removed heatsink. You can see it here. Unfortunately your card cannot be seen under heatsink in review you posted, so I don't know if my module is like yours (I presume you have an AXIOM card that should look different). As you can see it is MXM type I Ati x700. Notice the space around the card. I hope type II can fit in?

BTW the little purple patches of some weird paste were covering only 2/3 of the memory chips surface. I fixed it and now are covering whole surface! You can see the greasy stains on memory chips. Ati chip was also covered in this stuff and it wasn't properly applied, so I fixed that too. I hope that made cooling better. I was building my notebook myself and thermal paste/patch was already applied on the heatsink (not very well I'm afraid), so I didn't check that before.

Cheers,

 

start ati tool and click settings, select "overclocking" from the drop down list and the text box below should show you memory size, memory type etc.

ikovac, the pictures are great! i'm sure mxm-2 will fit in but i'm actually not sure if your heatsink will allow an mxm-2 card to be mounteed!

 

ahh yeah now it sees my card but unfortunatly it only gives mem frequency (which is the same as ati tray tools gave it) not any other infomation.
ahh well thx though

 

Wow, that card is an MXM! I never knew ATI had one of those...thanks.

I'll be cracking open my notebook later to show you mine. I'll post pics.

 

found another pice of software that tells me the memory type of a gpu.
its from the same people that make cpu-z, PC wizard 2006, this software says i have ddr ram, good bit of kit took a while to find the info though. its also completly free.

 

Guys, this is very important. You won't believe.



Over 100 are my old measurements. (You have seen them before)

Blue and orange around 80 are my new temps!





Blue line is my new temp reading! At 400/400 is cooler than old 100/100! It has the same period though.

Note:
Thermal paste patch to me is a small purple patch (I can see some threads in it) that is between the heatsink and GPU and Memory. As english isn't my first language I would appreciate a better term describing this.

I must thank you guys (Chaz, Dutty...) because you're the ones who made me:

1. OPEN NOTEBOOK (TOOK PICTURE)
2. REMOVE HEATSINK (TOOK PICTURE)
3. SEE THERMAL PASTE CONDITION
4. REPAIR/FIX TORN TP PATCH ON ATI GPU (AIR POCKET WAS THERE FOR SURE)
5. REFIT THE HEATSINK
6. RETEST MORE SPEEDS IN GAME
7. BEING SURPRISED WITH NEW READINGS
8. HAPPY!

So here is a conclusion:
On two occassions I stated that temps look a bit too high to me. I guess I was right. There was torn TP patch on ATI GPU. I took some from the other place where it was not used (not in contact) and filled the space. Now I get this! I also moved memory TP patches to fully cover memory!
ATI x700 obviously works even on much higher temps. Lucky me!
CPU temp is now 72-73 instead of 70 - maybe this is an indirect value showing that heatsink is actually working better now - more heat is transfered to it from GPU (and both GPU and CPU are effectively under the same heatsink).
I will edit my other posts about temp readings and add this last graph.

Man, I really like this thread!

Cheers,

 

Great Ivan!

Hey - here are pics of my AXIOM GPU - and this is genuine AXIOM.

Sorry if the pics are a bit blurry, but you get the point.
Notice the connectors on the motherboard and the GPU itself.

 

I am really surprised that they are so different. Thanks Chaz.

 

Yes, they are very different...I am really surprised as well. I hope ATI continues to use AXIOM, because I want that X1600.

On the top of the module in the center is the GPU itself, surrounded by the memory.

The AXIOM module is also quite heavy, and thick, but I think runs a lot cooler than the regular X700's or the MXM cards. The GPU heatsink is about two millimeters thick of solid copper.

 

That is good for keeping GPU cool. And maybe you should put the little pic of your axiom ATI instead of MXM nvidia. That is really an unique thing.

Cheers,

 

Something strange happens when I use Ati Tray Tools with the default Ati Control Panel.

When I enter display properties and hit the advanced button, my comp freezes after a few key hits.

I uninstalled Ati Tray Tools and everything is fine now.

Weird.

Is Ati Tray Tools a replacement for Ati Control Panel? Is there a tab for PowerPlay?

Cheers,
Mike

 

There is no PowerPlay option in the ATI Tray Tools installed on my laptop - I've tried both older and newer versions of it.

Yes - make sure you start ATI Tray with Windows on startup, because I have problems with it freezing as well. If I start Windows without it, and I attempt to open it, my laptop freezes and I am forced to restart.

No - ATI Tray tools is not a replacement ofr CCC.

Try installing the Mobility Catalyst 5.11's - very stable - without the CCC. Then reinstall ATI Tray.

 

seemslike 5.12 is preventing the cards to be over/underclocked somehow.. atleast thats what happened to me, check the story here: http://www.thegamebooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=26
so i'm back on 5.11 too

 

Chazman I have 5.11 installed with Control Panel not CCC, I hate CCC.

I just installed Ati Tray Tools and it started up with windows it was fine.

Only freezing occurs when I try to access the advanced tab to get to Ati Control Panel.

Any thoughts?
Mike

 

Although ATT is a great tool I get these problems:

1. Doesn't work well with 5.12
2. Don't start TWO ATT (sometimes I open second one by mistake) - it freezes my comp. Either I am so stupid to be the only one who occassionally does it, or maybe it is a result of poor programming?
3. I cannot use any display options, it always freezes. Some other stuff seems not working too.
4. Everest cannot read GPU and GPU ambient temps if you run ATT first. (This might be a reason for some people not seeing this info in Sensors, and have ATT set to autostart with Windows.)

So I use only D3D settings and Overclocking (whole bunch of it). That works.


Cheers,

 

Let's measure this speed gain. Numbers are one thing, and graphs - well I am a graph guy. That way I see it properly.


ATT - Ati Tray Tool
3DM05 - 3DMark05
Optimal means latencies set.

1. Latencies are important. Notice small latencies boost on 300/400 (underclocked GPU, overclocked memory) and without latencies set I cannot overclock to 415/435 (this way I get around 3050 3dmark05 ).

2. ATT also benches a bit differently - look for 350/400 and 400/400 differences in ATT and 3dmark.

3. Notice that memory speed isn't always the major speed factor! Check 300/350 and 350/300 (default). Here GPU at 350 with underclocked memory is still faster than underclocked GPU with overclocked memory. But this is valid only at quite big underclockings. In overclocking, memory speed is the main factor for getting performance. GPU shouldn't stay far behind though (check 350/400 and 400/400).

In FEAR 415/435 is absolute winner. I actually play at 1280x800, and before I was playing at 800x600.

Cheers,

 

You must have pretty high temeratures running at that...I would never push mine beyond ...oh, probably 400/400. But, earlier I tried experimenting with the core vs. memory speeds, and the core makes no difference - only about a 1.7% increase after 50MHz core OC.

Hey Ivan - did you have to push up the core in order to get the memory that high?

 

Actually no. I think that you cannot have like 100/430 (well what is the point?) or something, but 350/430 works fine. The thing is with latencies (as you can see from the graph) that I cannot overclock much over 400/400 without setting lower latencies and less refreshes of the memory. That is the main thing after overclocking memory. Actually I'm thinking of starting a thread about latencies on www.thegamebooks.com.

But I must admit that as more I overclock I see that there is a connection between GPU and memory speed. They go in pair. They work at different speeds. That leads to the conclusion that at some point they WAIT for each other. Some processing takes more time, and some actions in memory take more time. The point of good overclocking is finding the STABLE (not necesserily the fastest) GPU/MEM PAIR that produces the BEST let's say "yield" if my english is good enough (I'm making a parallel with chemistry. When two substances react, the best yield of product comes from exactly measured quantities of each). That means to me the best ratio of PROCESSING and WAITING to process data. Better the ratio, higher the mark. So memory overclocking does a big difference to some point, when it becomes better to overclock GPU in order to get bigger leap in marks.

In connection to temperatures, as you can see I fixed my heatsink, and have no fear about it anymore. If it worked at almost 110, then 90 or 95 isn't problem at all. Unfortunately for extreme overclocking I need ATT (for latencies), but Everest would not show temps if ATT was started. So the answer is I don't know how hot does it become. I see 72-73 degrees CPU only. Not much difference actually.

Cheers,

 

Excellent explanation Ivan. I'm going to try experimenting with different core:mem frequencies later on, probably with 3DMark05.

I actually found something interesting - the core overclocked makes a lot more difference in 3DMark05 vs the Bench! in the ATI Tray. For example, I got the following:
3DMark05:
Default (350:330) = 2785
OC'ed (350:400) = 2902
OC'ed (400:400) = 3135

So, apparantly there is a difference between the two benchmarks, and a fairly large one - that is a 4% increase when you OC the clock by 50MHz in 3DMark05, vs in Bench!, I only saw a 1.7% increase. Perhaps Bench! is not as accurate as we would like to believe.

Oh - ^those were without changing the latencies, set to default levels.

 

hey guy, where are you actually changing the latencies settings under ati tray tools? is it under the hardware->general settings or somewhere else? ikovac, i remember you suggested to do some testing with different latencies but i haven't been able to find where i could change it. thanks guys.

 

Hi Chaz, my AXIOM buddy (well you are the only person that actually showed me an AXIOM card, and I hope you don't mind buddy noun) ,

That is another reason why I deliberately put ATT and 3dmark05 together. 3dmark05 shows more or less linear gain, but check 350/400 and 400/400 (on my graph) in comparison - that ATT bench isn't showing the same speed gain as 3dmark isn't it? I would go fo ATT bench just to check for artifacts and stability, and number is questionable. 3dmark05 and Fear are my benchmarks.

I've written before that I can (sometimes) actually see the difference in FEAR while playing with overclocked GPU and without, at same memory speed. Also I remember 3rd GPU test in 3dmark05 - when cannons open - it was 17-18, and with GPU 20-21. Now considering the FPS it is not a small difference. But now I remembered also one anomaly. In first test, when soldiers go in that hallway or tunnel, I could swear I was getting higher FPS with lower GPU/MEM speed. Something like 11 at the end, but with my top overclocking (415/435) now I get like 8 . The rest of the test and other tests were much faster of course. Is it possible that some operations in the GPU/MEM actually don't work as fast as they should at this high speeds? Maybe there is some kind of congestion at some moment. I don't see this while gaming.

Good marks you have there! GDDR2 shows its power.

Cheers,

 

Hehe that's cool. I'm going to get some better pictures of the AXIOM module and connectors later - need to get my Nikon - Sony doesn't take good closeups.

Also, I think the 256MB of memory helps out too. Hey - I think I figured out something. Maybe my GPU runs cooler than yours because it uses GDDR2? I know that has smaller power requirements.

That is odd that you are getting lower FPS at that high of a setting...perhaps it runs more efficently at a lower setting.

I think what I'm going to try later is try different ratios of clockspeed between the core:mem, see if that makes a difference. If the core is running too fast and the memory isn't able to keep up with it (improper ratios), then you're going to loose efficency...maybe try downclocking some.

 

It is under Overclocking settings, timings tab. Do one at the time and don't panic if screen starts to show boxes, or stops responding. It will not kill your card (well I did it at least 100 times in my life, and still have all my cards that I was playing with - desktop and notebook). I wrote some numbers before in this thread, but I cannot recommend it for every particular card. I stated some of the fairly safe though.

Good luck, it is worth it when you find the right combination.

 

i am looking at the overclocking settings for ati tray tools and i see two tabs at the top, overclocking and fan

under overclocking it says bios gpu and bios mem, the overclocking section where you can modify the speeds and then the artifact tester. i don't see anywhere you can change timings. i'm running on the newest omega driver.

can you help me find it?

 

Well, omega ships the newest ATT without timings! I was also surprised. I would uninstall ATT that omega included, and install the one from www.3dguru.com. It should have timings tab.

 

Holy crap Chazman your default settings are crazy.

My puppy overclocked gives me [email protected]/371.25 for 3Dmark03 and [email protected]/371.25 for 3Dmark05.

I'm using catalyst 5.11's.

Your baby is running awesome.

Cheers,
Mike

 

that's exactly the reason why i tell people to use the original drivers
ati tray tools link: http://www.thegamebooks.com/download:-ati-tray-tools-v104-t7.html

 

Hey guys, I just OCed my zd8000's x600 after getting the version of ATT that you recommended. And following some of the other various levels and settings I found throughout this thread, and i've upped my memory speeds to the fastest ATT will let me go, 375. Core clock speeds stay around 410. Right now I've been hitting right at 1993 with these settings. I've been doing various little adjustments here and there. Right now my personal goal is to break the 2000 point mark in 05. I think that is flying pretty high with an x600 on my notebook. I'm still changing some settings and timings, and making a new run with 3dmark05 as I type this to see what a few new timing settings get me. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

Woohoo! 2019 is my best run yet! Probably my biggest problem right now is heat, it gets a little warm and probably should clock it down a bit until I get my notebook cooler. But, the big news is that I broke 2000 in 3dmark05, probably the highest score I've seen with an HP zd8000 yet (I've only seen like, 6 scores and most of them were close to 1500). If anyone has any ideas on how to either make this faster or run cooler, please let me know. I sure could use more ideas!

 

Excellent job overclocking ZXeno - over 2k is a spectacular score for an X600. Just be careful with the heat - with a Pentium 4, things can get toasty.

Thanks Mike. I bought Quake 4 today, I am running that at Ultra settings. Screenshots attached!

 

My P4 is actually running pretty cool, warmer than I'd like, but pretty cool in general. I'm actually considering moding the case above the video chipset with a custom-made vent. I work at Warranty Service for gateway, (Quanta Manufacturing Nashville is the company that does all of Gateway's warranties for their most popular systems including both of their tablet-style notebooks and their MX65xx series notebooks and various others) and I've seen plenty of failed mods *sigh*. But based off of many of the failures, I have accrued enough knowledge about notebook physical structures to know what not to do. So I'm very much so considering it, but I'm not sure I want to void my warranty quite yet even though if I wanted it fixed for any reason I could do it myself, I would just have to order the parts.

 

You could also get a cooling pad, such as this one here:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2649

Definitely a good idea if you are overclocking, or if you have a toasty notebook.

 

I agree with Chaz. Cheap, efficient solution (mine has 4-port USB hub 2.0. too). I was actually surprised how well it performs. Not only the GPU and CPU stay at more desired temps, but whole notebook case is kind of cool. On the other hand, I greet your idea of modding the case considering you are an experienced user. If you decide to do it, please let us know. Thanks in advance. I was having this idea for some time, but dropped it after buying cooling pad.

And I'm happy to hear about 2000+ marks on x600. It feels that manufacturers actually give us underclocked chips, isn't it? Or at least not optimized settings.

You did play with latencies if I got it right! Welcome to the club.

Good luck,

 

Im still not too sure if I want to, I haven't had this laptop for very long. And as I said, my biggest fear is the whole warranty thing

Sure did Below is a list of all of the ones I changed (By the way, I'm stealing your legend ):

CAS: 3 (5) 2 instantly garbled video and put the
notebook into hard lock-up. 3 was most
stable.

TRCDWR: 2 (3)
TRP: 4 (5)
TRAS: 6(10)
TW2RSame Bank: 2(5)
TR2R: (2) I left this at default, it causes what I
call the "bleeding screen" effect, where your
video locks up and then begins "bleeding"
different colors, typically white.
Memory Refresh: 255(30)
TRFC: 20 (17)

End score: 2048

I played with it some more today, managed to pull off a little higher score . Those timings are the ones I ran to get that score. Plenty of lock-ups and restarts later of course .

I think there are more I can play with, but I'm not going to until I can get that laptop cooler, shipping in from newegg this week .

 

Hi ZXeno,

That is it. I see you managed lowering some of those latencies. I hope they make similar speed gain that can be seen in my last graph. TRFC is actually the hardest to set (except those that instantly show you that they are not to be touched).

I see 20 instead of 17, and that was similar to my first attempt. Later on I discovered that I can pull it all the way to 28, but only on very high memory overclocking (for me it worked over 420 MHz). It looks that in order to have stable high frequency, I need to set this to the end. I can't do it on default frequency. First overclock, then change TRFC. If it doesn't work it usually only shows yellowish boxes on the screen, and I can set the default clock and it stops. Refresh the desktop, and everything is fine. If you manage to get TRFC to 28, don't set GPU/MEM clocks back to default, it will show boxes on the screen, or freeze. Downclock only 20-30 MHz, apply, see if nothing happens, and then pull down TRFC. Then you can return to defaults.
The other way that is not always working is to manually drag GPU/MEM and all latencies including TRFC to defaults, and then press apply.

This is my experience. Maybe it is completely different story with x600. For me TRFC is actually responsible for setting to 415/435 without artifacts, and having over 3000 3dmark05.

Once I got it stable (MEM 430 or even 435), I saved it into a profile, and I never had problems with applying that profile. I never start ATT on Windows boot too. I use it only when I need it (when I benchmark or play games).

BTW "bleeding" is the worst thing I saw. Somehow it looked like pixels are actually going to burn or something. I have never waited to fill out the screen. I always restarted manually. Other lockups, VPU recovers and boxes are not so scary to me.

2050 marks. Great! !t is actually closing to x700 default on my comp - 2270!

Cheers,