Battlefield 3 Discussion Thread

When FRAPS records, it fixes it to the recording framerate.

 

Looks like the bullets ricochet off the post haha. Either that or he has a panoramic shotgun barrel!

 

Yeah, lol, ricochet bullets. Let's see DICE program that, yeah, uh huh, right.

A shotgun I could ALMOST accept if I were 10 feet further back. But a suppressed SCAR-H?

I suppose I just need to start guessing which direction they're firing.

 

OK, by client side hit detection, I thought you meant that the actual bullet simulation is done on the "bullet owners" computer, rather than the server. If that were the case then you could abuse it no end and simply send out packets saying you hit everyone on the map simultaniously and no one would be any the wiser.

If by client side hit detection you simply mean lag compensated then yes that's a nice thing to have, however lag compensation can be biased either way - to the attacker or whoever is under fire.

 

It is the first thing you stated, I think. There's lots of across the map knife kills like this demonstration:

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OV9loU7dbzM?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OV9loU7dbzM?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width='560' height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

And an example of bad hit detection period, start at 25 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m_M9Nh2IKFw

Here's a good post on it :

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf...54347737515527/last/#post_2832654347773953415

 

Well
Here's the new balance consideration for the upcoming patch for the PC.
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654489491100463/

Vehicles:
Increased the locking distance for Jets when locking on laser designated targets.
Increased the damage the MBT's primary weapon does to other main battle tanks.
AA Missiles should no longer kill the pilot instead of the vehicle.
Tank rounds will now instantly destroy Jets, Attack Helicopters, and Scout Helicopters.
Using flares too early will no longer distract missiles fired at long range. The missile must be approaching the vehicle in order to reliably be distracted by flares.
Attack Helicopter Guided Rockets will now only track ground targets, as originally intended.
Reduced the direct damage done by helicopter gunners vs armor.
Slightly increased the blast radius of the rounds fired by helicopter gunners vs infantry.
Vehicle weapons should now suppress correctly.
Increased the direct hit damage of the APFSDS rounds for the IFVs.
Miniguns and Helicopter Gunners now more quickly destroy parked cars.

Weapons:
Significantly increased the damage of Laser Guided Top Attack missiles.
Javelin missiles fired without laser targeting now do more damage to the side and rear of MBTs.
Slightly reduced the repair speed of the repair tool.
Fixed a problem when locking on to two nearby targets, the locking should no longer jump rapidly between multiple targets.
Reduced the total number of RPG and SMAW missiles carried from 5 to 4.
Slightly reduced the locking time of all weapons vs Laser Designated targets.
Slightly reduced the effective blast radius of the RPG and SMAW projectiles against infantry.
Reduced the recoil of the SKS rifle and slightly increased its power at close range.
Semiautomatic sniper rifles, Assault Rifles, and LMGs now have more consistent damage over long range.
Increased the close range damage maximum range of 9x39mm ammo.

Soldiers:
Increased the spawn protection time from 1sec to 2sec. The protection will still be immediately canceled as soon as the player moves or shoots.
Spawn protection will no longer be canceled by the player looking around.
Slightly increased the speed at which a player can shoot again after sprinting.
------------------------

This is going to be slightly harder to use flare now .

 

OMGOMGOMG Less SKS Recoil!!!

 

As far as the client side hit detection and hacking, here's my thoughts:

1. Hackers can have a field day even without client side hit detection
2. DICE or maybe punkbuster or whoever has done a really good job banning hackers by my standards. Several times I've seen them get insta-banned. I saw a few who roamed free and marked their profiles. All the profiles I've marked as cheaters have been banned. On top of this, since we have dedicated servers, admins can ban hackers right away, or include kickvote functionality for the group. You can play on a server that meets your preferential method of handling this issue.

I thought you were continuing our previous conversation based on the content of your post - I obviously didn't look at the title of your video. I'm happy that you noted the fence, I really was upset. On the one hand, I'm glad you understood that this is a combination of issues, but I'm still not convinced you have a complete understanding of the events that transpired. Since hit detection is clientside, your perspective on where your opponents bullets are landing may disagree slightly with his perspective. I suppose in general the issue is that you are seeing him aim in the direction where you appeared to be from his perspective at that point in time, which is slightly to the left of your position. The bullet that hit the fence from your perspective resulted in an environmental affect in your engine, but from his perspective, the bullet shot you.

I'm actually perfectly happy with the way events played out in the video, and I'm happy with the compromise. I suppose this is because I understand how this compromise works, why they chose to do it this way, and I understand the shortcomings of the alternative.

The fact is, this degree of scrutiny will yield similar results in all first person shooters. The only difference is that in BF3, you'll tend to have demonstrations like this from the perspective of the victim, but not the shooter. In server side hit detection games, both are compromised to a slightly lesser degree. Since the shooting mechanic is more critical to the game than the dodging bullet mechanic in MY opinion, I'm very happy they did it this way. It's more annoying as a shooter to aim at a target, hit the target, watch the hit animation occur, and miss than it is to get killed by someone who was obviously engaging you but appeared to be looking at a slightly different angle from 3 feet away / a fraction of a second after ducking behind cover.

Since you can't have it both ways, I'll definitely side with the shooting mechanic over the dodging mechanic.

 

What I really don't get why only mess with the attack helo guided missile?

Why not jet's version as well?

And Boo... right when I found out you can target random stuff with them like mortars.

 

Thanks Falco... good info. +1

 

Does the IR smoke actually do anything? It doesn't seem to.

 

I suppose it's because the attack helos are extremely powerful if used correctly, and the jet guided missile is very difficult to pull off, and is not nearly as powerful even when used properly.

Granted, the helicopter requires a LOT of coordination to dominate with it, but the skill ceiling is very high compared to the jet

 

maybe the bullet hit the fence post, changed direction, and hit you? i'm half kidding, half serious here! but if BF3 has indeed such a mechanic, that would be fantastic!

 

So you're happy that if someone shoots a direction completely different than where you are, that they can still shoot and kill you? I don't follow. He's clearly shooting where I was 1 second or more earlier, so how am I supposed to avoid someone that can shoot me where I used to be? I measured it within my video editor frame by frame, it's over 1 second from where I was standing, to where he was shooting, not a fraction of a second. It may look like that when you're watching the video, but when you're playing, you are in the "moment" and see everything going on. I didn't know if he was stunned, or just didn't see me because his FOV was 60 or what, but he clearly was shooting at the pole and around it at an angle because I was suppposedly there. It's an issue. This isn't the best representation, but from the few videos I recorded this was one that stood out.

Did you see the other video I posted that the guy shot someone coming straight at him, clearly had sights on him with at least several shots directly on, yet nothing registered. That's the stuff I see quite frequently. That, and getting X's to indicate a hit yet in the kill cam they're 100% health.

I'm not doing this to please you or prove you anything. It's an issue. I understand the mechanics behind it but it doesn't make it right. Just because I understand that someone hit my car was because they were drunk, it doesn't mean it's right.

 

Depends how you use it. It doesn't work like flares when you could just deploy it while the heat seeker/guided rocket has been fired. DICE states it should be used while being locked on, not afterwards.

... casts smoke around the vehicle, preventing it from being seen, spotted or targeted.

-bf3 blog.

Personally, I haven't seen any tank use it, especially when I lock on to it when a jav or a gunner guided missile. When I get on tanks, I find it very useless when most people rather use unguided rockets.

 

Problem with IR smoke on tanks is that it takes up a valuable upgrade spot. 1 missile isn't going to kill me in a tank by itself, I'd rather have the offensive advantage with an IR scope or whatever.

 

OHOHOHO! Textbook case of "doin it rong" on my part! Thanks for the info.

True. I personally haven't unlocked anything else for that slot, though.

 

BF3 Worst Game of the Year award (lol):

WhatIfGaming Best of 2011 » Worst Game Ever Made In The History of 2011

" Like Worst Game of the Year 2011 Medal of Honor (aka Medal of Horror), created in part by EA Los Angeles and EA Digital Illusions CE (EA DICE), Battlefield 3 is the symbolic definition of a video game which truly defines hardcore veterans and long-term players from those that succumb to enormous hype, mass marketing, and are essentially clueless with or without conscience when they are fooled into believing Battlefield 3 offers anything worthy of its purchase. Fans of any decent warfare game will find the painfully short campaign and the equally detestable and watered down Bad Company-inspired multiplayer to be not only a spit in the faces of anyone who has ever truly loved Battlefield 2 and its massive PC player variety, but most of all anyone who hates being robbed while blindfolded by mass marketing and media advertising campaigns. While Electronic Arts and EA Digital Illusions CE spent a great amount of time and money focusing their marketing on the wrong essentials in trying to make a successful game, they largely failed in part to just creast Battlefield Bad Company 2.5 than a true sequel of a sequel. With all of these factors, Battlefield 3 belongs not just in the nearest bargain bin of gamers worldwide, but has earned the WhatIfGaming Best of 2011: Worst Game of the Year Award "

While I think they hit the nail on the head, I hardly think it deserves worse game of the year. Biggest marketing let down maybe, but far from worse game. Although I think they lost all credibility when I saw this:

WhatIfGaming Best of 2011 » Best First-Person Shooter

Modern Warfare 3 Best First Person Shooter

 

Netcode is more like the choice between having a drunk person hit a car because the person was drunk versus hitting a bus full of school children for the same reason, if we're making obscure analogies

The one second calculation isn't enough to mean anything to me because I'm not convinced that your perspectives are synced. It's 1 second from the place that you were in your perspective to the place that he is aiming, also from your perspective, according to your frame analysis. I'd like to see his perspective as well. Since the hit detection "sides with the shooter" this type of behavior is expected. Also, last time I did a frame analysis, I still disagreed with you by a pretty significant amount, but I'll let that aside for now. Side story time:

Even take a relatively simple net-code game like portal. 2 players only. I was experimenting with my friend as far as getting timings correct over skype with and without using the synchronized clock. There was only a fraction of a second of delay for our voice (maybe 200 ms) - and yet it was basically impossible to time up portals no matter what we did. We were just trying to assess how synchronized the game really was. As it turns out, "hardly" would be a good way to describe it. Sometimes it would appear synced to one player but way off to the other. It's a 2 player game, and you each get a pretty different perspective on the events that are happening.

If you're playing the game, it's just close enough that you can't tell. If you try to analyze the process, it's terrible. It's like walking up to a texture and putting your face in front of it and deciding the graphics are terrible. Same situation here, and with every other game. Before you make your judgement, you might want to compare it against the alternatives. That's all I'm saying.

Obviously, this is a compromise. Yes, you have awkward mechanics to deal with on the receiving end of the bullet. If you understand (or accepted) the system, you're not at any *disadvantage* either way. If you're running from cover to cover, you get a very short period of time exposed from cover point 1 where the enemy can't see you yet. But you have to be mentally prepared and understand this. You're also not any disadvantage if the game uses server side hit detection IF you understand how it works, but you would have to adjust your aim to compensate for ping, possibly having to know the ping of the victim as well...

Again, the alternative is generally worse, in my opinion. Just take a look at hit detection in other games. Call of duty has plenty examples of wacky hit detection from the perspective of the SHOOTER as well as of the victim.

 

Best of 2011 - Brought to you by Activision and Sledgehammer Games.

I think Battlefield 3 is a deeply flawed game.

I also happen to think it's one of the most fun multiplayer shooters I've ever played.

 

I literally believe that we don't have the technology to make an internet first person shooter sync up the way you appear to want it to sync up - ie. perfectly for all parties.

Since it is not a solvable problem, I think it would be more useful to focus your efforts on making changes to the gameplay mechanics (easy to improve) versus the netcode (difficult to improve) unless you have specific netcode optimization ideas. Just declaring it "not good enough" isn't helpful if no other games are better. Some games handle the latency differently, but it's always a choice between siding with the shooter or the victim. If you side with the victim, then firing feels wonky. Being a shooter game with bullets, there's not much dodging to be done, but there is a HUGE amount of aiming to be done. As stated before, I'm happy with the compromise.

 

PS3 gets a collapsible tower on Caspian Border with new patch. Let's hope it comes to PC:

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oaNDwOM9Lwo?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oaNDwOM9Lwo?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width='420' height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

 

Awww man, there goes my hiding spot.

I bet it be the first thing that helo and jets will blow up.

 

Apparently the overpass above in Tehran Highway is destructible as well. Look out for falling concrete.

 

hah. very cool.

 

This. had. better. not. be. Wake. Island. BF3. style. (think William Shatner)



Carrier IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BAY!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?

Taken from here: Get Satisfaction - People Powered Customer Service

And what's the point of having all that extra island at the tips if the carrier isn't there, there is no "arty island" and no cap points? Half the freaking island has no meaning. I'm disappointed.

 

Looks like a shop. If that's conquest, where's the opponent's deployment point?

 

They said they were bringing back traditional BF2 conquest style. If Red (Chinese) loses points and all people die, they lose. The US needs to cap all points or they lose.

Looks like it may have some credence. See this concept art:



We should know soon because I think consoles get Karkand next week, PC get it a week later.

 

That's not Wake Island, that's Wack Island...

 

Ah, here we go. I feel better, kinda. Hope this is 32 player map because showing only 3 cap points, there should be 5 at least.

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xJX9v3VRB4Y?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xJX9v3VRB4Y?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width='640' height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

 

Here's a good look at all the Karkand Maps (German):

GameStar Video: Battlefield 3: Back to Karkand - Vorschau-Video zum DLC-Mappack

 

I heard there will be 3 versions of each map CQ small (3 flags) CQ medium (5 flags) and CQ large (7 flags)

Wake wont have a 7 flags version since the original only has 5 flags

 

Oh that's a relief. It's already a bit of a disappointment that the conquest maps are smaller, but to have the ship in the middle of the the island...

 

Looks like we get Karkand Dec 13 - Battlefield Blog

 

PS3 gets it first...what crap.

 

It's a console game, what do you expect?

 

I hate Caspian so much. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

admin of nbr bf3 server , can u guys make the game able to start without players?

 

Not possible. DICE put a 4 player limit on R9 server update for ranked servers.

 

This image is a confirmed fake; the picture has the airfield the way it is in real life (because the image was taken from google maps/earth), while in the game it goes the other way.

 

can't wait

 

Thank you. We already confirmed that a few posts up.

 

Dec. 6 PC patch
Battlelog / Sign in
Official:

Aww .. I'm going to miss the infinite mines.

 

Good list of fixes actually. Nothing major, but enough minor to have an impact on gameplay. Granted nothing game changing like better commo-rose, increased persons in squads, in-game VOIP, and bombs on jets.

 

bombs on jets and increased players in squads would not be welcome changes by me, but I'm with you on VOIP and the rose.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Indeed, I've not gotten around to unlocking it as it is

 

How much is meant by "decreased"? It's pretty devastating as it is, it may not make much difference unless it's decreased like 50%.

 

Still no sign of "No Gun Bug" fix.

 

That frag round shotty can even take down choppers atm so ofc it will get a nerf. xD
Never had a problem myself with it, im usually out of range from it and quick on the trigger.

But im looking forward to this new fix: