Can't decide, IGP or Dedicated? ETA on D3? What would you do?

Going to college soon, I'm faced with hard decisions for laptops. The only game I actually play right now is WC3 (dota) for the most part. Maybe i'll play CS:S.

Those 2 games in mind, I can run with just an IGP, most likely Intel 4500 MHD.

In the future, I want to play Diablo 3 and maybe starcraft 2. Would the IGP play them at lowest setting with good fps? Starcraft 2 should come out this year, but i'm not sure if i'll play that. Diablo 3 will be a good chance that i'll be playing it, but it still has probably over 1-2 years before it comes out, since blizzard likes to postpone everything.

I plan to either purchase a Lenovo T500 or a Sager NP2096 if I need a dedicated gpu, if not, i'd probably go smaller with either a T400 or dell E6400, possibly outlet for a deal. The plan is to buy off the outlet for E6400 for maybe around 650-800$, save about 300-450$, and purchase a better laptop in the future, maybe within 2 years should be time enough for D3 to come out. Temporarily will use the 4500MHD to play D3, hopefully it works.

So what do you guys think? Go spend the money for a better laptop w/ dedicated GPU to invest for the future, or to just buy a cheap laptop that can handle what I need for 1-2 years, then eventually buy a better laptop after that.

The pros of this: In 2 years, the laptop I buy will be better and will actually be used to its potential, the technology will probably be better, along with cheaper prices.

The cons: It is not futureproof if I would decide to try some other games. VERY unlikely I will try other games.

 

Not sure with the Lenovos, but the E6400 with dedicated card is only 100 bucks more expensive than the one with integrated card. My guess is that it is worth the money...

 

I do not share your "pros": if you use that assumption you should never buy anything.

I would suggest go for dedicated, is a little money you'll spend.

 

Get the Segar with the dedicated video you won't be sorry when Diablo 3 or the Starcraft 2 comes out and you give some higher detail in the option menu and the better FPS!

 

The plan with the E6400 is to buy a cheap outlet one with probably a 4500 MHD save the money for a future laptop. The path i'm trying to take for dedicated gpu's is the 15.4" path, otherwise integrated gpu w/ a 14.1".

I'm not pushing off buying a laptop, i'm just saying right now I don't need the power of dedicated graphics until probably around 2 years. With that in mind, my plan is to buy a relatively cheap laptop now, then purchase a better one when I need it in 2 years. You're wrong assuming that i'm pushing off w/ the idea that there's going to be something better soon. The idea is that I don't need a dedicated atm, and I should just save now and purchase a better one later when I actually need it.

 

You should always go with dedicated graphics, if you plan to play games.

If you dont plan to play games, then integrated.

 

Do not, I repeat, do not go with an IGP, if you expect to play any games in the future.

For dedicated GPU, I don't even like buying a 9600M GT this late into the year. Have you checked out the $899 Asus G50vt Best Buy carries? The 9800M GS will last you the two years you're looking for, all the while giving you 2x the gaming power of the Sager 2096.

 

It seems like no one understands or ignores my post...

The only game I plan to play for 2+ years on the 4500MHD is Warcraft 3, possibly CS:Source, both of which can be played fine with the IGP.

I do NOT need a gaming card, so no thanks for the Asus G50vt w/ a 9800M GS. If I were to get a mainstream card like a 9600M GT, that 9600M GT would not be used at all until 2+ years.

Knowing that, I was wondering if I should purchase a cheap laptop that will run what I need for 2+ years, then, if I needed it, purchase a better one in the future.

 

it seems like you already made up your mind...why are you even asking the question if every time some one disagrees with going dedicated you say no

 

No one is saying the why. They assume I'm going to be using a dedicated video card, but i'm not, at least not for 2 years.

 

Buy a cheapo small notebook, and then get a monstrous desktop? I do this cause gaming on the go ain't good anymore, especially at the premium that some may pay. But for others iit might be worth it, so its up to you.

 

Playing the same game for 2 years huh?

 

I'm not planning to get a monstrous desktop lol, but you have somewhat the idea. I do not need a monstrous desktop, as I don't game intensive games. I play good games that are over 5+ years old.

But yeah, the basic idea is buy a cheap one now because it runs what I need, i'm not really "losing" anything. Then buy a better laptop after 2 years if I should decide I need a better GPU. Over 2 years, imagine the many improvements I could have for the same price. SSD, better/more efficient gpu's and cpu's for a cheaper price, and more.

Or is this unlogical thinking, and thus I should just spare the extra money right now to have a system that is "future-proof", but would have a GPU that would go to waste until 2+ years?

I'm asking people what you would do in my situation, not their situation. I'm not the type of person who needs a gaming card, as I don't pay attention to detail. On top of that, I don't enjoy realistic shooters.

Yeah, over 10 years i've only been playing Blizzard games and CS on my computer. I still find playing those games enjoyable, as to a wide variety of others. I don't need/enjoy realistic games like CoD:WaW or Crysis.

Also, it's not like i'm going to always be playing in college. In fact, I should have less time in college.

 

I'm totally understand what you mean. I'm a huge Blizzard fan and have played Starcraft and Diablo 2 religiously (slight exaggeration). I'm definitely going to jump on the S2 and D3 bandwagon when released.

I've been doing a good amount of research and I've come to the conclusion that Starcraft 2 should be able to run on an x4500 on lower settings whereas Diablo 3 - it's also quite possible, but less likely. Blizzard is very good at optimizing their games and they should be forgiving to those of us with integrated chips. I'm sure by the time they release D3, Intel should have released newer drivers for the x4500 to improve performance.

However, if worst comes to worst, I'll just buy a cheap-o desktop. And yes, I will buy a new computer specifically for these upcoming games.

 

If you plan on spending anything over $400, you might want to reconsider and make sure you are getting something that will satisfy all your needs (even futuer needs like trying more than 1 game in the next 2 years). It's never any fun to find out you just blew $1000 on a system that does half of what you need when you can spend $1100 and get everything you need.

All or nothing.

 

GPU's have downsides as well. I have an X200 with an integrated chip - why did I buy it? Because it's 3lbs, virtually silent and cool running. 6.5+ hours of battery life. I can only imagine what a disaster this machine would be with a discrete card it in. Heck, look at the M1330.

So it's totally depends on the user's needs and priorities. Sure, the x4500 is a slouch on gaming, but it works fine for the gaming I do (Starcraft, Diablo 2). Not everyone needs the latest and greatest GPU to be satisfied.

 

Well, I'm thinking of the E6400 from the outlet, so it'd be around 500-700$. It satisfies all of my needs for a couple of years. I might look for the dedicated quadro nvs 160M, but the 4500MHD is fine too. And rschauby, I'm hitting college, so i'm thinking i'd be playing even less then (so i'll be satisfied with WC3) because i'll be studying and maybe joining clubs. Yes, studying, i'm going to Cal, it's not going to be cakewalk.

 

I lol'd.

If I were you, I would just get the dedicated graphics now anyway. Even if you don't use 100% of its power all the time, it will be nice when you end up needing it for Diablo 3 or other games in the future.

My Studio 15 has a dedicated ATi Mobility Radeon 3450, which is by no means a very powerful dedicated card, but it allows me to play Counter-Strike: Source at 1280x800 and maximum settings very comfortably (we're talking well over 60 frames per second average).

Besides, it's nice to have a dedicated card for playing HD movies if you have Blu-Ray.

 

The Intel GPU should handle WC3. If that's the only game you plan to game, go for it. But IMO there might be some game around the corner that you would like to try, and you might miss that chance because of that decision. If battery life is not a priority, I would invest in a low-end dedicated GPU.

 

I'd either spring for the premium stuff with nice graphics, or buy a really cheap notebook and buy a high end machine later on when you have a real idea of how D3 and SC2 will run on various GPU hardware. While I'm fairly confident Blizzard will support the 4500 for D3 and SC2, the experience will probably so shabby that you'd be regretting it later on. And like others here mentioned, you'll probably want to play something else during the time leading up to the releases of both games, and other titles once you've had your fill of both of them.

This Asus is a pretty good deal if you want something light and portable, plus it has a decent dedicated graphics card

Like I said, you can play some other games during your wait for the next two years

 

Listen to the logic of mastershroom, a dedicated GPU isn't just used for games. Movies look better than on IGP and a dedicated graphics card helps with a good vista experience. If you are going to go cheap now, more expensive later, than go really cheap now, like netbook cheap. IMO, the line has to be drawn somewhere when buying a notebook. Obviously there will be something better down the road, and that is what is bad about notebooks, but future proofing something now would be just as good.

 

dedicated video card for sure.

if your going to game at all, even older games, i would get a decent gpu.

i hate using integrated crap gpus and then hate the performance of the game.

 

I don't understand why some people are recommending 17" monsters when this person is about to enter college. I'm going to assume that portability is very important to you, so I would recommend getting the IGP. The IGP will consume less power and generate less heat as well (+battery life). However, what you gain in portability you sacrifice in power; thus, you have to realize that any future games with more intensive graphics will lag on your system.

Also, if you're going to be purchasing a more powerful laptop in 2 years, then you don't really need the most powerful laptop now.

 

IGP's are not necessary for portability. My Studio 15 with the ATi dedicated card gets up to 3 hours of life on the standard 6 cell battery, and close to 5 hours on the 9 cell.

Also, I know plenty of people from my dorm with 17" laptops. They're still very portable; all you need is a good backpack to haul it around.

 

I would go with the 4500MHD. That chip is not really that bad. If you're just planning on going with blizzard games, you should feel pretty safe. Isn't the 4500MHD just a little behind the 8400m in terms of graphics power? ~850 3dmark06 vs 9503dmark06. I think you'll be fine with D3 and Sc2.

Plus, the Latitude E6400 is pretty good laptop. Its light and has decent battery life. I think you'll enjoy it Just remember to get the LED screen. Heck, once Sc2 and D3 come out and you realize you can game perfectly fine on the integrated stuff, you might even decide to keep the E6400.

 

Just saying the word haul implies non-portability.

 

dedicated is the only way to game

 

I would go with the E6400 with a discrete GPU from outlet, coupled with a Latitude coupon.

The discrete GPU should give you a fair bit of extra room with SC2 and D3 if and when they are released. While the 4500 will run WC3 and CS:S perfectly fine, the IGP would probably be sorely pressed to run SC2 and D3 at decent settings/resolution.

You will lose some battery life, but the price difference may not be that far, especially when you consider the fact that you can always wait for a good deal at outlet before jumping on it.

The discrete card may also offer you a better resale value in the future.

 

There are at least half-a-dozen laptops on newegg with dedicated GPUs for under $800. My personal favorite would be the ASUS F50SV-X1. Even playing those games, it would be worth it to spring for a low-end dedicated card. They don't add that much to the price and make a big difference. You could even hit up the dell outlet for a lappy with dedicated graphics. You can get a 1420 with a 8400m in it for well under $600 or a studio 15 with a ATI 3450 for just over $600.

 

Here's my question:

If you spend $650 now, how much will you be willing to spend on the next one? If you're not saving up for a high level gaming notebook, then you'd be better off buying a $900 notebook with a 9800 series now, as when you buy your next $600-$900 entry level notebook, it's not necessarily going to outperform what you can get now, and you'll end up having spent double the money with nothing substantial to show for it.

 

Well if I spend 650$~ now for a Dell E6400, it would last me for 2 years or so, possibly even more if I can play D3 decently.

I don't want to get a high end card, as I don't need it for the games I play. Plus, I want battery life, so everyone else needs to stop suggesting high end cards.

I'm not saving up for a high gaming notebook, just a later mainstream one, should I need it. It be under 1000$, as current notebooks around 1000$ can handle what I need, surely the future there will be price drops or even better laptops around the same price. Laptops possibly with SSD, more efficient cpu/gpu, and more.

 

Definitely go with the dedicated GPU. Even if you won't be using it as often as you think, it's always useful to have and it raises the overall value of your notebook should you decide to resell it later on down the line.

 

Let me start by saying that I will be buying a laptop within the next month that has at least a 9800m in it. However, for the OP, it is clear that a 9800m would be a waste. A laptop with that card in it would be far too heavy, have a short battery life, get too hot, and have many other issues that would not be worth it to play Blizzard games.

 

The more you post, the more it seems like you've already decided on what to buy.

Bottom line is that you don't buy a 4500HD if you expect D3 or SC2 to run in a playable manner.

 

I wouldn't be trying to get a specific brand at this point in time if you plan on getting a really high end laptop later.

What I would be considering is a laptop with a Radeon HD 3200 IGP or the GeForce 9400M IGP. Both are integrated cards and both perform very well. I have both of these cards, the 3200 in my HP Tablet and the 9400M in my MacBook. Both play Source games very well, so I imagine CS:S would play fine, and so would WC3.

I wouldn't personally go with the Intel GMAs, they seem to be pretty lackluster even in older games. See what you can do, and decide from there.

I think your idea of just getting a basic computer for now, then saving and getting yourself a higher end machine is a good idea, because then at least you can get an idea of what to expect with a new machine. But, be prepared for the unholy mother of OS's when you go to purchase the high end machine. Windows 7 will be dominating the market by then I'm sure (I doubt Linux will take over in that small amount of time).

So anyway, even if going for an IGP, at least get a higher end IGP. The Radeon 3200 comes mostly in the lower end AMD laptops (But be prepared for high heat output as those chips don't like being in a laptop). And the GeForce 9400 seems to be mostly in the Macbook unfortunately, but even a 9300 might be a good choice (it is a dedicated card).

Anyway, good luck with the purchase mate. Post what ya get

 

The dell E6400 appealed to me because of the WXGA+ LED, outlet prices, and battery life. I don't think a Ati 3200 IGP model (probably along with AMD cpu) will have that efficient battery life, plus I don't know what models will have either IGPs. I would prefer those, but they aren't choices in my laptop.

Yeah, for OS, I want windows 7 now, but it's not out yet, plus I don't want to mess with beta atm.

Thanks for input.

I'm still awaiting any reasonable input from others that might change my mind. Everyone seems to think that I should get a dedicated gpu, but they are completely unnecessary for my games. I need people to look from my games/perspective, rather than theirs, so stop suggesting such high end cards.

The issue is only and only is whether I should buy a system now that won't be used to its full potential for at least 2+ years, also having to spend extra for it and probably losing battery life, or whether I should buy a decent, lower priced laptop that will last me. I know it'd be fine for my needs until 2+ years. After those 2 years, only if I need to, will I purchase a laptop that will be more "futureproof" than one that I would buy right now with a dedicated GPU.

 

Have you considered buying a laptop off of Craigslist? It is somewhat risky, but you can certainly find some good deals under $500. San Diego Craigslist- Laptops under $500

From what I've read, the IGP should suffice for now.. just don't expect too much performance out of it .

 

Listen to this man. The 4500HD has some trouble in CS:S at WXGA+ resolutions, don't expect anything decent on D3 or SC2. For a comparison closer to home, World of Warcraft with the new patches has framerate issues on the 4500HD even at WXGA res. So go with at least a 9400M (available in the Dell Studio 13, for example). You don't have to sacrifice portability for that little bit extra power.

 

2 things:

1) Many colleges use proxy server, which only allow you to access web only. No Limewire, no torrent, no online games.
2) Unless you are really smart, I don't recommend anyone game in colleges. I used to play 4 hours of CS in HS era, now more like 4 minutes a week.

 

What you need is BALANCE. You can't skimp on rest because you have a good GPU. Graphics-wise the 8200M IGP is better than even the X3000 desktop IGP. 8200M should be faster in graphics than the X3000 even if the difference in CPU is big, like Core 2 Duo E6600(my desktop) and Turion X2 2.0GHz or something.

I recommended a 8200M based laptop to a friend. The person however does not play on the laptop. Because the WoW frames are too low. I get by frames of 10 frames per second, so what is "too low" mean? I thought since she had a desktop with Geforce 8800GTS the line for acceptability must have been pretty high and "too low" for her must have been like 20 fps. Nope, the frames can go as low as 2 fps.

See even though I have X3000 IGP, I use Core 2 system with 2GB RAM and X25-M SSD. The frames are stable enough that its playable. I run at 1280x1024 half of the settings and medium, and half at high. The person with 8200M mobile laptop ran at 800x600 all low.

I've got another friend that has a Dell Inspiron XPS with Pentium M 2GHz/2GB/5400RPM and Geforce 7800 Go. He is extraordinary that he's sensitive to small amounts of lag. The problem is still the lack of "stable" enough fps.

You can stand to watch a movie with 30 fps, or some HD DVD with 24 fps. Yet its hard to do that with games even at 50 sometimes. The reason is in games, that 50 fps is not stable and fluctuates.

Benchmarks don't always show the real world performance with every laptop because they try to keep the results as similar as possible so the system is clean. In real world usage the system isn't always clean and there are problems. CPU will compensate for that, so will a fast storage, but a GPU won't.

Note: Oh, one of the games tested on Intel's Graphics Performance Analyzer is Diablo 3. Currently GPA only works on the GM45/G45(4 series) chipsets. Because unlike Crytek, Blizzard actually wants to sell to more than 100 people in the world, they try to make their run on many systems as possible. One of the reasons the Intel graphics are bad on games is they have very little to no developer support, hence the development of a analyzer tool like GPA. You'll probably be able to run on lowest settings at least if you choose to go with the 4500MHD.

 

IntelUser is right in that frame rates are subjective, but you should think that if a now slightly old game like WoW runs at 10 fps, what will happen with D3 or SC2?

A low-end dedicated GPU typically costs something like 100$ extra, even less if you buy the laptop from the Dell Outlet. It cuts your battery life from 6 hours to 5 hours on the standard 6-cell battery. I vote for dedicated.

 

I have a feeling that GMA 4500MHD with Diablo 3 at low settings will run it better than WoW at almost high settings on the X3000, but you might differ. Go for dedicated graphics, but try not to skimp on anything else.