Cant Believe How WEAK 8600M is suppose to be!!

Iv hear from reports on this site that the 8600M is only barely more powerful than the 7700??!! What the hell is the story with that?? If the 8600GT is for instance far more powerful than the 7600/7700.. how is the 8600M so underpowered? After all the 7600GS is barely more powerful that the 7600Go..!

For example the 9000 series HP's that have the 7600 cards, are to be replaced with 8600's.... Is the performance difference going to be that small???
If as said, that the 8600M is to only be a little more powerful than the 7700, then the performance difference should be negligable as the 7700 has performance difficult to tell apart from the 7600.. Especially an overclocked 7600..!

 

The DX10 games are not out yet.Then a 8600M GS will have SOME difference with 7700 (considering that 7700 is not DX10 compatible).
Anyways the GS mark is always a sign of weakness.

 

I'm really not to surprised, Nvidia has been known to keep the performance close to each card in the new series. It also sounds in line with the desktop counterparts, maybe a little slower.

Also with the "wait and see with Directx 10" stuff has me kinda skeptical. Directx 10 will eliminate some of the overhead, but it'll only allow for better visuals if the developer decides to add them. Plus by the time good Directx 10 games come out the cards would probably be obsolete and who knows how optimized Crysis will be.

I don't think people right now with good Directx 9 cards should be running out to upgrade to new hardware. One reason to wait is that 8000 series cards seem like they are really weak in Opengl games. With QuakeWars coming out I think it'll be real drawback. If it is driver optimization then it'll probably be a while before they fix it since how slow all card are right now under Vista.

I also agree with John Carmack on how Directx 10 is marketing fluff for Vista. But its gonna end up on being a "wait and lets see" kind of thing I guess.

 

I was wondering.. Can't a softmod unlock the rest 16 pipelines, which are available in the GT? The cores for a GS/GT etc are the same, if Nvidia is following it's own tradition.....

 

Well, the 8600M GS is essentially an overclocked 8400M GT, which puts the 8400M GT at about the same level as the Go7700. So look at the bright side of things?

And the 8600M GT performs almost as well as the Go7900 GS, so it blows the 7700 away. Plus, all of these are DX10 compatible.


As for the cores being the same, its not true on the desktop side. The 8600GTS (G84 I think) has its own core and the 8600GT shares its core (G86 I think) with the 8500GT. I'm not sure about the mobile chips, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was true as well.

 

I really wonder how strong M8700/8800 will be..... But then, I heard that desktop version of 8800 radiates major heat.....

 

If I am correct, both the 8600GS and GT are based on the G84 core, while the 8400 is a G86. That essentially means that the extra pipelines are physically present, so these should be a way to unlock them. Softmods are out for quite a few desktop cards, but I am not sure about mobile ones. Should be possible, though.

 

It would be pretty interesting if they were. That would make it a lot easier to get nicer graphics on notebooks.

 

You might want to tell my 8800GTS that. I actually can't max out the settings on Doom 3 any more than they already are (forced 16xQ AA and 16x AF, Supersampled Transparency AA), and the framerate never dips below 60 fps. This is at 1680x1050, the highest my monitor allows.

As for Carmack, I think he's right and I'm actually hoping an OpenGL wrapper gets written that translates DX10 calls to OpenGL, which isn't impossible (at least, that's my understanding).

I didn't buy my 8800 for DX10. I bought it because it's freaking fast.

 

If it's going to be like the current generation of GPUs, then it won't be possible to unlock the unused pipelines. They are physically disabled.

When a manufacturer makes the chips...not all of them come out working to the desired specs. These sometimes get sold as "lesser models". This could be the case on these GPUs that have the physical pipelines--but are disabled.

 

I'm guessing they block half the pipelines because they are planning for an 8800 in the future? I guess it's cheaper for them than making an even better card in the future.

 

John Carmack hasn't actually programmed a pc engine in several years and probably wouldn't even know what dx10 was...

 

The scores from 3dmark 06 are significantly below the 7700 go, they are actually below the 7600 go.

Its not barely better in any way unless you get a dx 10 game.

 

Well, you know he is working on Quake Wars? Given his record, I'd be inclined to heed his words.

 

Which 8600 are you talking about? The GS version is much slower the GT version. As far as i know, 8600GT is in par with 7900GS in terms of performance.
In 3d mark06, the asus G1s with 8600GT scores 3630 and original G1 with a 7700 scores 2,389. The GT version won by over 1000.

 

The 8600M GS scores a 2050 in 3DMark06, which is basically as powerful as the Geforce Go 7600 of the previous generation, which scored roughly a 2,000 ...

If you're going to get a card in the 8600M series, you might as well get an 8600M GT. The extra oomph you get from the extra clock speed is quite remarkable.

 

Zeillo = banned??? What happened?

Anyways I want to try and set things right here. The 8500/8600 scores very high numbers in 3Dmark06, and is actually completely relevant of gaming scores also. This card is a beast at 1024x768 0xAA/0xAF, on par with the 7900gs/x1950pro. Once 3Dmark06 pro was ran at 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF the card only beat a 7600GT by 3%. The same results were shown in games as well; veryhigh FPS at low settings/low resolution but its lack of memory/wide memory bus and therefore low memory latency crippled the card at higher resolutions and settings.

So basically it seems the card has a ton of potential but has a limited bus to send instructions across, so it can't cope with the amount of memory used up at high settings and/or high resolutions. Thats why the desktop version of this card was given negative reviews by 90% of review sites. So although we don't know yet most will consider this card just slightly better than the 7700go (which is just as good as the 7600GT), but we'll have to wait and see.

Just don't be mislead by 3Dmark scores, we really need a more demanding 3Dmark07

 

I don't think we need a more demanding 3DMark. I think we need to stop using 1024x768-- results at that resolution aren't relevant in the real world.