Clevo notebooks with 800M series coming out February 2014

I know this is a clevo thread but this is really sad news for ALL laptop brands since most producers will release their new rigs before Q3(wich is likely to be the earliest release of 20Nm)

Since most of them will have a soldered gpu that means that the earliest we would see 20Nm on most(some exceptions may apply) laptops would be Q1 2015 since manufacturers would be crazy to release a refresh earlier than that and compete with their own just released products.

 

So MXM or no 20nm then?

 

This whole speculation is getting out of hand too, lol. I guess it is what it is, just wish they'd announce something official. I have a feeling that it may just be rebrands this time around, with no Maxwell. Not that it's any indication, but that new Aorus x7 is releasing in the next month or so with the dual 765m's. I would think that if 800m series were coming they'd like to release with the latest tech. It would be a bit embarrassing if there was an 865m that was 50% faster than the 765m and only slightly behind performance of SLI 765m.

 

We are getting frustrated of it, that is true.

Desktop Maxwell announcement will be 1 to be made. Considering how there is still 790 and 780 Ti 6GB being unreleased, I don't think it is in Nvidias` favor to say something Maxwell related at this time.

March starts to become more and more friendly for a proper Maxwell opening.

 

My guess when Maxwell will be announced:

1. When GTX 750 Ti launch, February 18th (if it is a Maxwell)

or

2. GPU Technology Conference, 24-27th March

or

3. CeBit 2014, March 10-14th


The lack of information and rumors about 28nm and 20nm is confusing as hell.
Nobody knows anything about Maxwell. Thats the worst part.

 

It's the perfect application of thermal pads and paste along with having the beefy cooling of the 9570, but I know from experience the sagers can manage 1006/1400 all day.

We are going to see 28nm kepler at the low and high end along with 20nm maxwell in the mid range, this is exactly like last time, I don't know why every one is in a fluster.

You don't get anything for free, the 780 Ti is a lot more power hungry than the 680, so unless you want to see 150W mobile cards then this wont happen with the same arch and process.

*shakes head* I leave you guys alone for a couple of days and you start with the strangest ideas.

 

Moneyz on 10-14th march.

Same process, different ark.

Wattage difference for the offered performance by 780 Ti over 680 which 50% is better than it should have been, at least on desktop end...

 

Same kepler architecture, just more of it, you have no room to increase the TDP for a larger chip and no room for a wider memory bus, so you can't go up no matter how efficient the scaling is.

 

I am confused with what u said.

Yea, 780 Ti and 680 are the same ark and process. U can increase TDP in kepler high ends tho. Classified, lightning, king pin have done it successfully.

I was saying, it could be possible for a significant(u could argue with the number) improvements with 28nm Maxwell.

 

I'm really frustrated. This is like a rebranding championship.

680M->780M->880M

7970M->8970M->R9 290M

In terms of performance, nVidia wins. But they have to stop believing that they're fooling people like us. They need to stop. Stop. STOP.

 

They did it with the 8 -> 9 -> 200 series too.

 

No last time 680m launched as Kepler before mid range chips. They added mid range chips as kepler with mx suffix.

Beamed from my G2 Tricorder

 

Last launch:
GT 640M/GT 650M/ GTX 660M: March, 28nm
GTX 670M/675M: March, 28nm
GTX 680M: June, 28nm
GTX 670MX/675MX: October, 28nm

I`m with Meaker. I have a strong feeling the same will happen again.
GT 840M/GT 850M/ GTX 860M: 20nm
GTX 870M and GTX 880M: 28nm rebadges
GTX 880MX: 20nm
GTX 870MX: 20nm

Question is when they launch...

 

in the clevo roadmap the gtx 860M is listed : feb 2014

 

Uh, looks like you have some typos.

And given the 750ti rumors, I'd expect at least one of the 840m/850m/860m to be 28nm Maxwell.

 

I dont see any typos there.

If any of those three cards is based on 28nm Maxwell, then it will probably one boring Maxwell launch.
GTX 750Ti latest scores (if legit) performed worse than GTX 650 Ti Boost. And it cost the same as 650 Ti boost according to the prices out now. Meaning it will most certainly not have any onboard ARM processor.

 

I think he's referring to the fact that you've put 20nm against some of the 600 series cards? That did confuse me.

 

You're right... for some reason I was thinking 680m launched first with Kepler.

But you still have typos, Kepler weren't 20nm.

And 880m is supposed to launch soon, 680m was new architecture and die shrink. This time around it's same architecture and die size. Aw hell, who cares.

 

Darn it, you guys are right. Too many numbers there. 28nm for 600M of course

Meh, GTX 675M "launched" in March. GTX 880M in February. Both rebadges. Only a month apart. Pretty similar if you ask me.

HT: GTX 680 (desktop) actually launched in March. Perhaps thats the card you thought about.

 

You're probably right. Remember I'm an old IBM model AT with a few kb of memory, none of this new fandangled stuff with TB's of memory, I can't remember a damn thing.

 

Well in your defence those old computers are actually of pretty good quality. I have a few few computers from somewhere in the late 80s (I think) which still works like a charm. Nothing was like playing Yatzy with your friends on that machine

Onboard speakers that could barely output anything than some weird sounds, those humongous disks, max 16 colours on the screen, huuge CRT screen and clickity clack keyboard with big keys. Oh those were the days

 

I still remember my something like 4" amber monochrome screen on my old IBM laptop (aka a literally 25kg suitcase with a handle and 8086 processor I think), it did have a 20MB hard drive though. I was given it though as a kid probably more than a few years after it came out!! It was magic when I hooked it up to my CRT to get 4 colour CGA though! I thought all my Christmas' had come at once when I upgraded the graphics card to EGA though - got to love that 16 colour magic - come on it's 4 times more colour!!

 

I remember playing the original Kings Quest. It was spectacular at the time. A friend of mine and I played for hours on end on his dad's IBM. Oh the memories.

 

lol yeah 16 colours were absolutely amazing back in the days.

Prince of Persia
Yatzy
Stunts
Spiderman
Commander Keen

Just a few games I can remember now. Oh those were the days

According to google, 8086 had like up to 10MHz speed. Amazing. I think I had a turbo button on mine that enabled 1-2 more Mhz or something

This game was the bomb back in the days for me. Notice the awesome graphic and the smooth sound of the pc speaker

<iframe width='480' height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-8ZDdERbKSg" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

It was one of those games where you wrote what the character should do in the games wasnt it?

 

I was a Jump Man fan, didn't need fancy graphics for that! Elite on the BBC, Mr E, and some other games I can't remember! Oh the good old days, who needs an 880M now!

 

Yes, kinda a mixed action adventure with text adventure:

<iframe width='480' height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/r0TLhR51uGY" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

What 28nm maxwell? There is no 28nm maxwell considering how close we are to 20nm you would never get a return on investment on it.

 

Considering that they made 28nm Fermi its not that far fetched of an idea

dosed, mixed and stirred, not shaken, from taptalk

 

^ That and...

GeForce GTX 750 Ti "Maxwell" First Performance Numbers Out | techPowerUp

"The GeForce GTX 750 Ti is an important GPU for NVIDIA, as it's the first to be based on its next-generation "Maxwell" GPU micro-architecture. NVIDIA is trying the architecture out on current 28 nm process, before launching bigger chips based on the next-generation 20 nm fab process."

 

Why don't we just wait until nvidia releases info themselves about the 800M series

 

Because that would make sense...

 

Maybe, but this is a speculation thread, there's almost no way you can have the the characters "800M" without it!

 

Here is our first Maxwell (not known if 20nm or 28nm), GTX 750 Ti. Core count have increased from 768 to 960 compared to Kepler. 25% more cores.
According to 3DMark11 we are looking at around 20% better performance with the first Maxwell if GTX 750 Ti use the same power as GTX 650 Ti.

Better than previously thought but I dont think its enough to push me toward buying Maxwell. But its something :thumbsup:




More of GTX 750 Ti Maxwell revealed: GPU-Z and benches - AnandTech Forums

 

25% more cores is good. But I wish they'd just increase the bus width. However, my wishes aside, I agree with cloud. I will probably wait for 20nm.

 

We must wait and see if power consumption is the same as GTX 650 Ti first.
If it is, Nvidia could add around 25% more cores on mobile 28nm Maxwell GPUs as well.

It is crucial that they keep the power consumption at bay because of heat development in our notebooks. With desktops that is not so important. So power consumption is the last piece we are missing to conclude.

Remember this is low end Maxwell. High end Maxwell cards will have better memory bus and hopefully is scaled properly with performance/memorybus.
But hopefully they will wait with high end until 20nm is ready. We will see much higher core count increase than this on 20nm.

EDIT: It is not confirmed wether the GPU above is 20nm or 28nm.

 

Need a proper review with Power consumption and performance. This tells nothing unfortunately.

 

that can be the new 860m, if that holds any veracity

 

p4600 @ 3dmark 11 are like a gtx 765M mid OC

 

Something seems a bit off with that in terms of the 3DMark11 scores. It should perform just a little better than my GPU due to the boost clock being a bit higher than my overclock, although the memory bandwidth is lower on the 750ti, but that shouldn't affect it much, but instead I get 1000 more GPU points than the 750ti. It kind of makes me think it's all bogus, unless the poor memory bandwidth really hurts the performance in 3DMark11. And anyway, if this was supposed to be Maxwell, and hopefully more efficient per Mhz, then why doesn't it kill my card even more! Seems a bit fishy to me! I don't think this is reliable information.

 

I would think it was because of
A) It running 128it bandwidth while your 670MX running 192bit.
B) It only have 16 ROPs while you have 24ROPs.

Plus your bench reveals that you are running the VRAM @ 1150MHz which gives you what? Almost 115GB/s while the 750Ti having a measly 86GB/s.

But I`m not sure. It could absolutely be fake but I have never seen specs like that in ANY Kepler GPUs

Definitely. It also is released in February like Clevo roadmap shows GTX 860M will too.

It will of course be downclocked but it will be a nice upgrade over the GTX 660M which score 2400 GPU points while this 750Ti score 5600 GPU points.
But it greatly depends on power consumption. It may even be a power hog and its not nearly as effective like it presumable shows. Or it could be very effective. I`m super exited

 

Yep, it's 110GB/s for mine. But I'm only getting about 25% (if memory serves me correctly) memory controller load during 3DMark11, which would seem to indicate that memory bandwidth wouldn't affect the scores much, and I'd be surprised if that difference in bandwidth resulted in such a lower 3DMark score. And that's not accounting for any hopefully increased per Mhz performance of Maxwell vs Kepler! (So, I hope it's not Maxwell!) I agree with the other points you made though, which you say support it to be a Maxwell card. It just seems a little fishy to me overall, I'm not convinced yet, doesn't quite all add up.

EDIT: Did an experiment reducing my memory bandwidth to the 86GB/s of the 750ti, and ran 3DMark11, here's the result
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/7874985
The GPU score only dropped 400 points, and is still 600 points higher than the 750ti GPU score. (Still hope this 750ti isn't Maxwell, because it wouldn't be showing Maxwell to be very efficient on a per core & per Mhz level if that's the case!)

 

God I hope the 880MX or whatever they call the Maxwell equivalent of the 780M will be considerably cooler than 780M. I just reached 91°C on stock clocks during gameplay where GPU load was 99% constantly (GRID 2 demo). It seems nomatter how many times I try to repaste, temps are never as cool as people on these forums who own Clevos claim them to be - either I'm crap at repasting or I need to find a better brand of thermal paste (currently using Prolimatech PK-3)... :S

An 880MX would definitely be cooler running if 20nm. Even a new more power efficient architecture would be able to run cooler if only on 28nm. But the question is whether NVIDIA will go for a 100W+ part like the 780M or go for a 100W part like 680M. These 100W+ parts like running superheated, or maybe it's just my repasting skills to blame.

 

If you're comparing exact like for like models, and if room temperatures are the same, then it's possible your heatsink mounting might be not quite level, which might not be your fault, it could just be due to the individual unit you got. (And of course you don't have a dust issue). Different pastes only make a couple of degrees difference if the mountings are good.

 

For what it's worth mine stay pretty cool. I've only seen 1 card go to low 80's under a massive OC while benching. Am using IC7. For gaming even with one it's normally always in the 70's.

 

well if GTX 750 Ti is not maxwell what to do -_- the GTX 860M will be like the GTX 765M -_- useless upgrade

 

Your heatsink could be bad. I would get with your reseller and see if you can get a replacement heatsink assembly, and if nothing else buy one, they should be reasonably inexpensive, at least from most Clevo resellers.

The interesting thing is that the Lenovo Y50 is supposed to come with a GTX 800m series (we're all banking on 860m) chip, but won't be available until April or May despite working prototypes in the wild. So 800m Maxwell (20nm?) may still be another 4-5 months away. Aorus is releasing the x7 SLI 765m laptop in another month, and if it were so close to Maxwell I would think they would wait it out another month, but from what other OEM's are doing, it seems the 800m series (or at least non-rebrands) won't be here until at least May, which might point to 20nm by that time.

 

The Y50 is supposed to have the 860M 4GB (according to the official Lenovo page that was up during CES) - Either Maxwell or another rebrand with excessive VRAM.

Lenovo IdeaPad Y50 Gaming Laptop to Deliver 4K Display, GTX 860M Nvidia Graphics | Laptoping | Windows Laptop & Tablet PC Reviews and News

But then there is this - Dell Updates Alienware 17, 18 Gaming Laptops with Nvidia GeForce GTX 880M / 860M, AMD Radeon R9 M290X | Laptoping | Windows Laptop & Tablet PC Reviews and News - Where the 860M is mentioned to have 2GB VRAM.

So the 860M probably has 2 versions - a soldered version with 4GB VRAM and a MXM version with 2GB VRAM.

 

Thanks for testing that out for us.

So you lost 400 GPU points when decreasing memory bandwidth down to the GTX 750Ti bandwidth.
I am pretty sure you would have lost those 600 points too if you lost 8 ROPs from your card. Remember that ROP is responsible for things like AA and filtering. Meaning the heavy duty stuff in the games and benchmarks. While performance preset in 3DMark11 is only 1xAA and 720p + 16AF, it will count for something.

The key element we are missing here is power consumption. According to benchmarks GTX 750 Ti beat GTX 650 Ti by roughly 25%. If it can do that with the same power consumption, it means everything is coming from architecture gain. I think it will end up like a mixed up picture. It use a little more power than GTX 650 Ti, say 10%. That means the rest, 15% (25%-10%) comes from Maxwell architecture.

Right?

Yeah GTX 780M is one hot GPU. Both Clevo and MSI run pretty hot with the 780M inside. Not sure if 91C is normal though. I heard high 80s.
TBoneSan have Alienware 18. Superior cooling compared to Clevo machines. I heard the GTX 780M SLI runs about 75C on stock clocks. My 770Ms run in the 60s. It is really that good.
So I can`t blame Alienware from including GTX 880M since their cooling systems can handle it. But im a bit scared at the idea of an extra 150MHz compared to GTX 780M inside Clevo and MSI. I know Clevo will include GTX 880M. Almost 90C with GTX 780M. Yeah good luck with that GTX 880M

Wonder if MSI will jump on the bandwagon too with their awesome 1 fan notebook?

I am still trying to get my hands on a GPU-z shot from Lenovo Y50 but its impossible to find. The only people who have posted pictures from that machine is from CES. Usually when leaks happen, is when regular people like you and me have contacts within resellers and get the notebook shipped to their home before release. This have not happend yet from my understanding.
I have really no idea what will happen next with mobile GPUs. Its frustrating.

Neither have Alienware included GTX 860M in their notebooks yet either. There was a specification leak from Alienware Germany, but it was just listing what will come later. Who knows when they actually can start selling them.

 

Yes, maybe the lack of ROPs on the 750ti hurt the performance. But still, I'm not blown away by the per core & per Mhz performance. I mean if Kepler is more efficient on a per Mhz and per core basis than this supposed Maxwell card, then they may as well skip Maxwell & just die shrink Kepler. If that card is Maxwell, then to me it looks like the Kepler architecture offers more performance per core & per Mhz. This just makes it hard to believe that that card is Maxwell, so either I think the information leaked on this is bogus, or maybe it's just a new Kepler card. A new Kepler card doesn't make sense to me, so I still think the leak is a bit bogus. That's what I'm hoping, otherwise to me it's not an impressive outing for Maxwell. (I don't know anything about the source of the leak of this info, in fact I've not looked into where it came from at all, so I can't comment on the likely reliability of that).

 

You could very well be correct that it is a Kepler rebrand. A reworked one that is, because there does not exist any Kepler GPUs with the same specifications. 128bit, 960 cores and 16 ROPs.

One fishy thing about the GPU-Z screenshot if you noticed, is that they grey out the "Device ID" area. The one that reveals what GPU it is. Why would they grey it out? Is it because not to reveal that it is a rebrand and to make speculations flow until launch is here?


Other than that, looking at the GTX 650 Ti and GTX 750 Ti:
GTX 750 Ti have 960 cores while GTX 650 Ti have 768 cores. That is 25% more cores.
It scored 25% more in 3DMark11 and 45% more in Firetrike. So say +35% in average. You are indeed correct that it is kinda dissappointing when you look at it that way...My previous posts here I said that I expected no more than 10-15% better efficiency out of a Maxwell on 28nm compared to Kepler on 28nm. Could actually turn out to be true when we see all the details