Dell Exchange Proposition (Concerns about GPU)

After 4 replacements of my nVidia GeForce Go 6800 Ultra without success Dell finally decided a system exchange was called for. Their proposed exchange (viewing online) is:

Dell XPS M1730:

T8300(2.4GHz, 800Mhz, 3M L2 Cache)
2GB, DDR2, 667MHz 2 Dimm
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8700M GT (1 Card, non-SLI, 128 bus)
Windows Vista Premium
80gb 7200rpm HD

for my

Dell XPS M170:

Pentium M Dothan, 2.13GHZ, 2 MEGB, 533FSB
2 gb DDR2 533 MHz
256MB NVIDIA GEFORCE 6800 Go Ultra (256 bus)
Windows XP Professional
60gb 7200rpm HD

Everything aside from the video card appears to be a clear upgrade, but I'm slightly reserved on the video card because of the bus size. On the main graphical cards page HERE it does appear that the video card is an upgrade.... but because the fps benchmarks for the games aren't given I'm afraid that the the card will perform worse when actually used for games. (I tend to play in WUXGA [1920x1200] Resolution)

Was wondering what you guys thought in regards to this exchange from Dell.... can vote above, but comments as to whether I should seek an upgrade from the 8700M-GT would be more appreciated. (Not just cause there are better, but because this card is worse than the 6800 Ultra.)

 

Don't forget, you're also getting a dual-core system. If you argue with them, you'll probably be able to get them to send you a much faster 8800M GTX SLI system.

 

On what basis could I try and get them to do that?

(Give me 2 8800Ms)

Edit: And I'm assuming the dual-core is an obvious upgrade... isn't it?

 

I would not think they would send you a dual 8800m GTX. I'd say you'd be lucky to get an 8800m GTX single, maybe GTS. That is a definite upgrade though. The 6800 is pre-PCIE, is it not? The 8700m GT should definitely get you better perf.

 

Yes, the dual core is a significant upgrade. 2 cores, better architecture, faster FSB, AND higher clock speed. It's a unqualified upgrade.

 

Well, the 3 options for video cards when they sell them now are:
8700M-GT

8700M-GTs SLI'd

8800M-GTs SLI'd.

So, singular 8800m's appear to not be in the mix.

 

They don't offer a single 8800M GTX and they won't make a "special order", so if you explain to a Dell rep about the memory bus difference, after awhile he'll probably upgrade you to SLI 8800M GTX.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Just had to double-check after Michaels post. =p

 

I suppose I could try that route. Any real literature I should point them to? Aside from the just the stats on nVidia's page?

 

Dell reps aren't that educated when it comes to GPUs and have nothing to lose by upgrading an order for a complaining customer. Just try to explain the difference to them. How much did you pay for your original system before taxes and shipping?

 

No doubt about, very nice trade.
You can afterwards upgrade your system to the most powerful GPU combination ever for laptops, 8800M GTX SLI.

 

Yeah, the price for those cards when buying a computer new is an extra 1000. The 6800 Ultra they keep sending me is valued at almost 600 refurbished.

I wonder how much it would cost to get those cards from Dell later on as an upgrade. (And it should be upgradable whenever to those cards right?)

You'd laugh if I told you the orig price and date......... trust me.

 

Actually, I'm relatively certain the 8700M actually outperforms the 6800 Ultra. You could probably argue for 8700M SLI, not so sure about the 8800M SLI. Regardless of whether or not the Dell representative knows his hardware, it will probably be tough for him to okay an upgrade that costs around 1000.

Incidentally, a current configuration of what they're offering you is worth around 1,900 NIB before tax.

The 8800M SLI GTX post purchase upgrade is occasionally quoted to be at around 2,000 if I remember correctly.

 

8700 SLIs is a 300 dollar difference. (If purchased new)

They have it valued at 2300 before tax.

But it seems general consensus is this is all around good. And the 8700M-GT should not perform worse than th 6800 Ultra under any circumstances.

 

Regardless of what you get, everything will be a noticeable to significant upgrade. With Vista coming on the new machine though, I'd see if you could talk them in to more RAM.

 

Alright- I think I'll probably leave the video card issue for now and taket his machine as is. If I notice any issues when its actually running I can take them up then. (Caught the fact they replaced my brothers 7900GS with a Radeon X1400, lawl. So I can always get back to them later)

Quick questions/confirmations:

8800M-GT really is better than 6800 Go Ultra under all circumstances, even with the smaller bus.

Because the 8800M-GT SLIs are offered on this system when its new, can it definitely be upgraded to those cards in the future? When they become available as parts. (And where would a good place be to check for those, obviously Dell, but their prices for parts are generally outragous.)

Would getting the RAM be a significant upgrade because of Vista. 2gb more is only about $70 and I could install it myself. And, why would it be such a big upgrade with Vista? Is it worth buying and doing myself when the new machine arrives?

 

Even an 8400M GT can out perform the Go 6800 Ultra in a lot of circumstances, so yes, the 8700M GT is more than an upgrade. You're looking at potentially double the FPS in the games you're used to playing. Based on 3dMark06 numbers, even a desktop 6800 Ultra gets within 100 points of an 8400M GT.

 

dude the 8700 is way better than a 6800... whoa there awesome upgrade.

 

You'd have to dig around to be sure, but I wouldn't be suprised if SLI'd 8800s required a different mobo than single 8700s. Maybe different cooling system too. That means upgradeability would require send in to Dell and $$$$. If you are thinking about it, I'd say just ask Dell if they will let you upgrade for extra (discounted )cost on top of the replacement. As to RAM, if you are gaming on this system, Vista is more memory intensive than XP, so for serious gaming, 3GB is the recommended amount.

 

2gb more is about $70, so it seems like a wise investment to me; regardless if it comes free or not.

Good to hear about the card though-- was concerned the bus size could make running games in WUXGA worse than when I was running them with the 6800 Ultra.

I'll call up and ask about possibly paying for upgrades now-- if anything I'd shell out $300 for the SLI'd 8700s; 1000 for the SLI'd 8800s is a little too extravegant for me.

 

Too bad they don't offer single 8800s... less heat, more perf than 2 8700s. Maybe you could wring the dual 8800s out of them for 500 or 600 bucks instead of 1000 if you can confound them with talk of bus width and bluster. Oh yeah, as to RAM, as long as you can make sure they give you one 2GB SODIMM instead of 2 1GB SODIMMs, you could upgrade the RAM yourself for less than what they will charge.

 

^^^^^ This

Start off with bus width and try to argue discounted 8800's and just hope they don't bring in 3dMark06 scores.

 

i doubt that will happen.. the SLI 8800M GTX is a $1000 option

 

You're getting a new laptop for free. What's the big fuss about? The Go 6800 probably is at the minimum requierements for games today (well, the 6600GT 256MB is the minimum, the go 6800 shouldn't be far from it).

The bus allowed the other guy to get his 7900 replaced by a 8800 but a 6800? You would have to talk with the right damn dump guy, although this is always a possiblity with Dell

 

I did some wikiing. desktop 6800 ultras has simmilar bandwidth with 8600 gts (35gb/s vs 32gb/s).
so the mobile version should have simmilar bandwidth as well. however considering the 84m core is alot more powerful than the nv40 whatever, it should be a nice upgrade.

 

Your poll is messed up because 'other' is the right answer but doesn't tell you much, when there should be an option for, WOW I'm surprised DELL actually gave someone something better than they originally bought as an RMA/Replacement.

The GFGO6800U would get destroyed by a GF8700M GT, Same with the Dothan by the T8300. Faster memory, Bigger HDD too.

Seriously all this hand-wringing has just cost you time you could be spending with this nice new and more powerful laptop.

 

Luckily it hasn't cost me any time. =p Saw what they were sending me online and wanted to do some research as per the video cards. Everything else was clearly an upgrade, just wanted to make sure the smaller bus size wouldn't catch me off-guard.

I had a feeling this was the case (8700M-GT > 6800 Go Ultra) but, wanted to make sure in case I had to bring it up to them while it was still 'In Production.'

As per your poll change suggestion: Dell's customer service is pretty good if you get the right warranty. (Next Day In-Home Service) After awhile of not fixing your problem they give up and give you a replacement machine (As-Good or Better, like promised)

 

I deal with DELL on a professional basis (and as rarely as possible on a personal basis), and I'll just say I stick by my original poll suggestion.

 

Pay a bit more to get a 8800

 

Can't get a single 8800 card unfortunately, I wish I could as that seems like an actual reasonable request.

Just some things I noticed doing some more research (as per above bandwidths by tianxia)

6800 Ultra: 35.2gb/s; Pixel Fill Rate of 5.4 billion/s.
8700M-GT: 25gb/s; Pixel Fill Rate of 5 billion/s.

Both values are lower; due to the bus size. So, a couple questions.
1) Will that impact any real type of gameplay or is it outweighed by the other factors and benefits of the 8700?
2) Would safe over-clocking destroy the difference between the 2? (6800 Ultra ran retardedly hot to think about overclocking in the old machine)

As per Ape and Dell; guess I got lucky, you deal with them more often than I do!

As per JCMS; It's a free laptop, I'm just trying to get the best I can legitimately get from them, and you guys know your stuff a lot better than I do with regards to GPUs.

 

push to get those 8800's that card (6800ultra)is still worth alot and if you can explain that the bus hinders the 8700's(doesnt actually in this case but they dont know that), and the the 8800's would be equal price represaentation to your 6800, they should give it to you

push for eveything you can, 8700 SLI is as far as i see them going, but really try for the 8800s if you can get the right sales rep you could be ablwe to get those and you would be fine for a few years.

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-6800-Ultra.2138.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-8700M-GT.3987.0.html

Take a look for yourself.

 

Well-- in the end I called Dell, but the tech spoke to someone knowlegable and confirmed that the card is indeed superior. However, I believe I did get a PhysX accelerator out of the call. Unfortunately, I also found out that I am getting 2x1GB of RAM; so, its replacement will be more difficult, but I believe still worth it.... thoughts? (From Dell themselves 2gb (net gain of 1gb) runs ~$70; worth it? Go for 4gb? First experience with Vista)

Long story short, its a stupendous upgrade; nothing to complain about.

Thanks to everyone on the boards for the information (about cards; effects of bus speed; slot) and suggestions as to how best approach the situation. This was my first experience here, and it's all been really helpful!

 

If that's $70 for a end result of that 3GB package thing, then nah, get the 2GB they offer you and if you want more, buy a matched pair of 2x2GB for about that $70.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Subcategory=381&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

 

Ask if they will do a single 2GB SODIMM instead of the 2 1GBs. Otherwise, the 70 bucks will probably be about break even for you on replacing it with a 4GB from another vendor.

 

Yeah but even though it may be similarly price, then he can sell his old 2x1GB on eBay or Craig's list and get a two-four to celebrate getting 4GB for the price of 3.

 

That upgrade is absolutely massive, even considering the GPU. If you can get an 8800, go for it, but don't push too hard and lose the deal.

Seriously, with the new processor you'll be FLYING. FLY-ING.

And the GPU will increase performance by at least 150%.

 

So, you guys highly reccomend upgrading to 4gb RAM then?

 

Why not? It's $70, and you'll never need to upgrade that piece of your system.

 

Yeah-- I'm done pushing, they aren't getting anymore phone calls until its on my desk.

 

The 8600GTS has GDDR3 2000 and the 8600GT GDDR3 1400. Most 8600M GT have DDR2 800, some GDDR3 1400. I believe the 8700M has GDDR3 1600