Dilemma with Gaming Laptop...

I'll try to make this short and sweet. I have a Sager NP8170 with i7-2720QM CPU and GTX 485m GPU. I also have an M11x R1. I'd really like to pocket some cash by selling these and buy a single unit that will manage my needs of both.

I bought the Sager previously because it was my primary machine. I have since reorganized my house and my desktop fits well for me now, and only use the laptop periodically. I'd still like to game with a laptop, although since it will only be occasionally, and not primary, I am fine with reduced performance and graphics. I would also like to be able to game for a short period with at least the performance of my M11x R1 however while on battery.

It seems it's difficult to find a middle ground machine like that. So far I've narrowed it down to:

Alienware M14x with i7-2630QM / GT 555m ~ $1300
Sager N5165 with i7-2630QM / GT 555m ~ $1000
HP DV6tqe with i7-2630QM / HD 6770m ~ $1200

Alienware only comes with 1600x900 max screen and no blu-ray option, but has backlit keyboard

Sager has nice 95% matte gamut screen for +$95, blu-ray option for +$80 but no backlit keyboard

HP has blu-ray standard, and no backlit keyboard, but seems to have some issues with auto switching OpenGL apps/games.

I got some good feedback from the Alienware and HP forums and seems both can game on battery reasonably well, just waiting on response from Sager owners. I really just want something a little better than my M11x while on battery (3DMark06 > 7500) for 1.5-2 hrs for less resource intensive games, but obviously more powerful plugged in.

Since I am a big fan of the Battlefield games, my ultimate goal is to be able to play Battlefield 3 at 720p with low to medium settings with far view distance with minimum 30fps.

Any more thoughts or ideas? Thanks.

 

Take into account that both GT 555M are different.
Also, is your max budget around $1300?

 

I'd prefer budget no more than $1300 but willing to consider other options.

Just realized they are different, M14x is much better.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...-game-battery-m14x-like-m11x.html#post7677566
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...t-555m-clevo-w150hr_-model-3.html#post7426885

 

Well, it's not very useful if you're making the switch now, but the implementation of Thunderbolt promises a better future. Check out this thread, specially posts #3 and #10. http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...-any-thunderbolt-egpu-solution-available.html
Are you sure? I thought the Sager had the 96 CUDA, 128-bit one and the M14x the 144 CUDA, 192-bit.
Here are the descriptions for both: AnandTech - AnandTech Mobile Graphics Guide, Summer 2011

EDIT: Seems the difference is not CUDA cores but bus width, ROPs and clocks...

And finally, welcome to the life of the lowly glorified peasant. It's a med setting, med rez world down here! xD.

 

Well, not interested in an eGPU, I have my desktop for that, hence the reason for downgrading from my existing desktop replacement laptop.

There seems to be no decent GTX 560 machines that will play well on battery either, otherwise I'd consider that.

 

The DV6tqe could be great if they fixed the switching, but you'd have to put BC2 on med at 1080p on it, while you might max it without HBAO on the native 900p M14x. The 555M and 6770M are almost equal in performance, with the 6770M OC'ing ridiculously. The Clevo has the weakest GPU, but the screen in AMAZING! If it were me, I'd get the m14x, but I'm biased towards AW, as my sig may show...

 

Have you looked at any Llano based systems? It seems to fit extremely well into this type of situation.

 

Very true. If you can deal with the lower CPU performance, which is still fine for the average user, a DV6zqe can be fully specced for under a grand.

 

I don't know much about these new AMD's, is there significant difference in power consumption between the low end and high end GPU's? It's only $100 upgrade from lowest to highest. And any benchmarks on the A8-3530mx GPU (6620G?)? The only thing I see is at notebookcheck.net with DiRT 3, and it comes in 75% below GT 555m.

 

I assume you're talking about adding the discrete GPU since the Llano laptops already have an APU (CPU+GPU). That I don't know, but I still believe it should have good battery life. Time to search for some DV6 reviews with the added discrete GPU.

 

Yeah, it's confusing. For options there's:

AMD Radeon(TM) Discrete-Class Graphics [HDMI, VGA]
512MB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD Dual Graphics [HDMI,VGA]
1GB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD Dual Graphics [HDMI, VGA]

No description of what they are. So is there an actual discrete GPU? If so what is it?

edit: see here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...v6-now-shipping-amd-llano-46.html#post7672901
Doesn't look too promising.

 

I have no clue what the discrete GPU(s) will end up being. My guess will be something around (maybe better for the 1G model) the 6620 that's in the best (laptop) APU right now. AMD Radeon HD 6620G - Notebookcheck.net Tech

 

How much battery life are you looking for?

This article explains pretty well what Llano is and its naming scheme. AnandTech - The AMD Llano Notebook Review: Competing in the Mobile Market

Llano doesn't have dedicated VRAM (which is one of its flaws), so any option indicating so must be a discrete GPU coupled with the APU (CPU+fGPU). When this happens, the normal denomination of that APU changes to show the resulting match.

 

Well in any case, early reports aren't looking too promising for Llano.

Battery life, I mentioned 1.5-2 hours gaming Starcraft 2 let's say. Or 5 hours surfing.

So far M14x is looking like the best option.

 

The HP comes with a 6750M, and we don't have bemches on the A8-3530MX, yet. Abbadon is getting one, should be here by this weekend. The 6750M and 6620G are a smidge faster than a 6770M, and once drivers are better, could be leaps ahead of it. We don't know yet, though.

 

Yeah, I saw the SC2 estimate but didn't know about the surfing one.
Was going to say MSI GT683-242US since I read it had switchable graphics, but I believe it only hits 3 hours...

GenTech PC - MSI GT683R 15.6 inch Gaming Notebook

 

Yeah, thanks. I've been down the MSI road before, not interested again. I'm sure they're decent, only had a bad experience, bad build, over heating, etc from one a few years ago. Just hesitant to go back.

 

deleted. didn't mean to post here.

 

I would just go with a Sager NP8130, but performance on battery is abysmal. My NP8170 with i7-2720QM and GTX 485m only scored a 3500 3DMark06 score, and I'm sure the 560m wouldn't fare much better. That's as good/bad as Intel IGP, yet it consumes three times the power.

Not that I plan on gaming on battery a lot, but I've kind of am spoiled by my M11x giving me that option and have found myself doing it more often than not. Usually simple Indie games, but occasionally Team Fortress 2 and Starcraft 2 and even Bad Company 2.

 

after reading ur post i think m14x would be best for you. dv6tqe should be cheaper though since almost always have a 30% off coupon of some kind. unless ur not in the US

NP8130 is also an option but you say you want more battery life so that kinda puts it out of the equation

 

M14x.
1) With the 1600*900 res you won't have any trouble gaming at native res with good fps (at least 30 on most games). Also, is a superb res on a 14"/15" screen. A friend have a M15x with that res and I must say is great.
2) Backlit keyboard, for me is a must.
3) Good GT555 version

The only cons may be the Heat (according to some). BUT, I believe the heat on the HP must be worse. I really don't like HP, too many friends with problems with that brand.

 

I have 1600x900 on my M15x, love it. Text isn't too small, but it still looks HD in games.

 

NP8130 can't game on battery though. However I may just have to forego the gaming on battery and go with the NP8130 because the GTX 560m is quite poweful and think I will be disappointed with the 555m come next year.

I much prefer a 1080p screen for desktop work, but not a deal breaker.

 

Man, this is a huge dilemma for me, so far have been debating between DV6t vs M14x vs Sager NP5165 vs Sager NP8130

DV6t has everything I like and is cheapest. But OpenGL support is wonky and no way to overclock GPU.

M14x has the more powerful 192-bit 555m but glossy screen and no 1080p and no blu-ray and most expensive.

NP5165 has everything I need. But only 6-cell battery and the 128-bit 555m.

NP8130 is great, except performance on battery is dismal (3DMark06 ~ 3500).

From stuff I've read on XPS 17 with 555m which is same as 5165 it can overclock to near GTX 460m stock performance, but not sure about the NP5165. Why is there never the perfect combination of components in a machine for a reasonable price? Seems there never is!

But I have to ask myself how important is blu-ray, 1080p, and gaming on battery to me.

If my NP8170 would sell then I'd just make a choice and deal with it.

 

There's the problem...

 

Isn't the M14x like 6.3 lbs? Or is that not a big deal.

At least the 555m on the 5165 is better than the one on the Y570 (128-bit GDDR5, but only 96 pipelines???!).

The XPS comes with the 192-bit variant as in the M14x (that'd be REALLY weird if it didn't), so it's not the same as the 5165.

 

Either keep your Sager, game with it as best you can and sell the M11x or sell them both and get the M14x. While you may not love the 555 as much as you'd like, it's about the best chip if you want to game for any amount of time "off the plug" which you won't likely find in the 560 grade machines. And by the time you've found something that will carry a 560 you've come pretty close to the abilities of your 485, only will have spent more money in getting there.

If there were more "like to game but ok with plugged into the wall" well then something stronger than the 555 would be possible, but then you'd almost better keep the 485. Since you want to be off the plug, then 555 is probably pushing it but you'll deal. It'll give you 90% of what you wish for power wise, yet keep you from needing a plug as much as a stronger chip would.

 

Well I plan on selling both my Sager an m11x so i can pocket about $1000-$1200 and use one machine. I would prefer a blu-ray drive and 1080p screen, which the M14x lacks, not to mention the crappy glossy screen they offer, and for ~ $200-$400 more than the other options, so it's a bit hard to convince myself it's the best choice. But the video card, build quality, and backlit keyboard make it appealing, just not sure if $200-$400 appealing.

Plus, do you have any link showing XPS 17 555m is the 192-bit? I don't find it anywhere. I find lots of benchmarks for the XPS 17 here but not details of the card. Plus can't find any good benchmarks on the NP5165.

The 555m in NP5165 is probably significantly faster than the 6770m in the HP when overclocked and the HP can't overclock.

 

Here's my 2 cents. I own a dv6tqe and I just filed it in for a refund, a few too many things bothered me with it:

The 1 fan that cools the system is constantly running. If you don't mind this then that's fine. Once the second stage of the fan kicks in, it really becomes bothersome.

The keyboard is beyond subpar, I'd say almost equal to garbage. Many of my keys have a much lower depth than the others, leading to a generally poor typing experience.

The chassis has many gaps in it and a lot dust and lint collect in it, it looks as if some of the piece barely fit together because of those gaps.

The screen upgrade for $150 is really should be a $75 upgrade. The 1080p is really disappointing. It is very dim screen, with a low contrast ratio and did I mention is $150? The stock clevo screen is better to begin with, not to mention a $90 upgrade to a 95% gamut screen.

Lastly, dynamic switching. Wave goodbye to using your 6770M for photoshop or any OpenCL apps. Simply does not switch to it.

Temperatures were very mild on my system. While playing Rift the CPU would reach ~88-90*C at peak, while the GPU hit around ~85*C. These are not damaging temperatures, but uncomfortably high.

The dv6tqe is really a great notebook on paper. It offers all the bells and whistles for only ~$1,000 with a 33% off coupon, but it ended up a real shocker for me.

Edit: I guess I just joined the same boat as you.

 

Thank you! Feedback like this is much appreciated. More I read the more I get feedback, the more I'm leaning towards the m14x. I have dealt with HP laptops in the past and they were average but tolerable, but a mushy keyboard and dim screen I can't stand.

The Sager NP5165 is looking severely gimped by the 128-bit 555m and only 6-cell battery (62 WHr?).

So it comes down to m14x and NP8130 which is crap on battery, but kick butt when plugged in. Similarly priced, I just think you get more value from the NP8130 if it weren't for the super gimped performance on battery.

 

get a m14x and if you dont like it return it. sometimes they dont charge you the restocking fee even.

 

I'm not going to buy something where "sometimes" they don't refund your money if I'm not sure I'm going to keep it.

 

Well, looks like my NP8170 has a buyer, but won't hold my breath until I get the money.

After doing some more research, it's come down to Sager NP8130 and Alienware M14x. I'm just a little leary on the HP for build quality and screen quality but battery life is nice (6-7 hours with 9-cell).

The primary reason for looking at M14x was better battery life and ability to game on battery, but neither of those are looking to be realistic. 3.5-4 hours on battery compared to 3-3.5, and doesn't perform much better on battery than the NP8130. Plus NP8130 comes with GTX 560m, 8GB RAM, 1080p matte screen, and add blu-ray, machine will only cost about $1200, where M14x with 900p screen, 555m, and only DVDRW costs about $1300. But it also smaller and lighter.

So I'm almost hesitant to give up my M11x because it gets great battery life, can game on battery, and it's small and easily portable. But I really don't need two laptops, and already have a basic netbook for battery life.

Such is my plight. lol.

 

sincerely? keep the m11x, sell the netbook or give to your kids, sell your np8170

the m11x is one good thing for you to game on battery

 

Smaller, yes. Lighter, not really. The M14x weighs 6.45 lb with battery, the NP8130 6.83.

 

I agree with this. I can play everything I own on my M11x, and I've got some pretty demanding games.

 

Well, I want something that can play Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 3 reasonably (on AC), medium settings at 720p is fine. M11x sucks at BC2, so it will only be worse with BF3.

 

Sell your R1 and get an R2/R3 maybe? My R2 plays it decently.

 

Meh. I'd rather have a larger screen and much better performance. The 335m just doesn't cut it for newer games. I should be able to get an M14x for about $1200 shipped with i7-2630qm and 1600x900 screen, maybe less if I can find my config at the Outlet. The R3 costs almost as much as the M14x.

 

Think a 555m on a 14" will get much better performance than a 540m on an 11"?

 

Yes! The 555m is a 192-bit 144 CUDA cores vs 540m 128-bit 96 CUDA. M11x has dual core ULV CPU vs quad core mobile CPU.

Stock config M11x R3 vs M14x

3DMark 06 7500 / 11200
3DMark Vantage 4100 / 6100
3DMark11 1000 / 1300

That is 30-50% faster in general.

 

Ah, well the vantage is probably the most accurate score as it's the most gpu dependent, and that is a decent advantage. I always thought the 555m was weak, but 192-bit is not bad at all.

The processor really doesn't matter that much, though. Very few games will tax the m11x's i7, even if it only has 2 cores.

 

I agree, except I want to play Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 3 both of which improve greatly with four cores over two.

 

I believe I've made my decision. My NP8170 sold, my M11x is going up for sale soon.

I'm going to get the NP8130. M14x just has too many compromises for the price they demand. I'm probably going to make a couple calls to Dell to see if they can make me an offer I can't refuse (like less than $1100 shipped with i7-2630QM and 1600x900 screen). Otherwise I'm ordering the NP8130. No Outlet laptops either, considering I can buy new from Sager for less than the M14x. NP8130 for $1177 shipped gets me i7-2630QM, GTX 560m, 8GB DDR3, 1080p matte screen, Blu-ray player. Can't beat that!

 

Did they fix the insanely loud fan on the m14x? That really discouraged me from getting it.

 

Not that I know of, that was another thing that turned me off. At the surface the M14x sounds like a great little machine, but once you look at the cost and the deficiencies, most just design decisions that can't be changed, it's not so nice. I can live with 900p screen, but no blu-ray, really? Obnoxiously loud fan noise when gaming? Crap screen quality, poor battery life even with Optimus ( 3.5 to 4 hours? I would expect about 6). The NP8130 with GTX 560m can achieve over 3 hours without optimus.

 

The 8130 is a pretty nice machine. It's obviously not at the same build quality as your 8170 but it's still quite good. The m14x is nice as well but the gpu leaves a lot of be desired. Though I'm a bit surprised that you would sell your 8170 since its the best 17" out there. The 8130 should be a lot lighter and a tad smaller at least.

 

i think even the m18x gets more than that

 

Well, the NP8170 isn't exactly portable. 15" is about as large as I want to go for portability, plus I'm looking at pocketing some cash since the NP8170 only got occasional use, and my M11x is more of a toy than anything. It's nice to have but the screen and resolution is too small to be very useful on the go, and is showing its age unless you play two plus year old games or older. I bought the M11x for $499 refurbished, so I should at least make my money back, because you can't find them for less than $650 at the outlet, and mine is hard overclocked to 2.0 GHz hopefully adding some value.

I'd prefer to have something smaller, but everything at 14" or smaller is a compromise of some sorts. The m14x would be a nice machine if it were about $250 cheaper overall. $1000 for i7-2630QM and 1600x900 and I'd be sold in a heartbeat. But $1300+ is just too high to justify. Not to mention it isn't exactly a small 14", it's heavier than most 15" with GT 555m or 6770m, and physical volume is actually more than those, but the 192-bit 555m almost excuses it.

In any case I'll be calling Dell tomorrow to haggle. If they can't give me one for about $1000 with i7-2630QM and 1600x900 screen I'm getting the NP8130. Before I bought my NP8170 I almost jumped at the 8130, but thought I'd want the biggest and best, and at the time it worked for me. It was my desktop replacement until recently.

 

But does it have shiny lights?