Dual graphics card vs single

Hey guys what would be the advantages of having a dual graphic card setup (SLI/Xfire) to a single graphic card setup, going by if the 2 together gave out the same exact performance as the single?

 

I would say that if one dies, it is much cheaper to replace one rather than a really expensive one

 

I more so need a good argument to dell as to why my replacement needs to have dual graphics cards instead of a single

 

Because your old one had two GPUs?

Both Crossfire and SLI is great once it works.
Dual GPU notebooks are to chunky for me personally.

 

I think you answered your own question didnt you??

If 2 cards have the same power as the one, the answer is there is no advantage.


There are several disadvantages though - Xfire/SLI does not work with every game, performance does not always scale 200%

Usually more space/heat

Usually more power used

2x failure chance of a single gpu
_________________________________________

Bottom line dual gpu is pointless unless you NEED it for some reason and then it would be high end gpus so that you can break the barrier of a single gpu performance.

 

well the thing is they are trying to give me 1 gpu in the replacement even though the 1 gpu is equal to the 2 but i feel i should get 2 because at the time i paid extra to be able to have dual gpus

 

Yeah thats another con of dual gpu - usually more expensive.

Sounds to me they are doing you a favor, if you know the one card is equal to the old dual card setup be happy. It will perform on par in all situations and outperform it in others.

 

& since you paid extra why don't you save yourself the extra headache & get a single GPU solution that is as powerful as your dual & hell less problematic

After seeing how many people suffer from Dual GPU solutions I would never touch em with a 10ft pole .... But thats just me ...

 

Which card are they trying to put in place of your (I'm assuming) 8800M's?

 

Hd 5870 Ati

 

I'd just take the HD 5870 and be happy about it.

 

I've played with the fires of both SLI and Crossfire in a desktop environment and been burned by both. Never again.

 

I kinda agree with this.

I had a similar situation with my lifetime warranty EVGA card I had in my desktop. They replaced my 8800GTX with a 250 as they had close to identical performance.

In your case though, if they are replacing the entire laptop you will be ending up with quite an upgrade.

 

Single card advantages:

Drivers
Power consumption
Weight
Noise (cooling system dependant)

 

5870 is the best card out there short of perhaps the mythical GTX580 that is what my G73 has and I think its a wonderful card.

 

You know about the 485m and 6970m that have been out for a long time, right?

 

485m is not really better than the 5870 its just a GTX480 overclocked and part of the 400 series one series behind the 500 series the one that matches the 5000 series from AMD.

The 6970m is based on the 6850 and that is actually below the 5870 as well.

Unlike the 4000 --> 5000 series where the naming conventions stayed the same 4850 --> 5850 4870 --> 5870 the new 6000 series is totally different for example the 5870 is stronger than the 6870, its the 6970 is the true match to the 5870. In the 5000 series the 59XX was the dual die gpu.

However the 6970M is based on the 6850.... while the 5870m is based on the 5870.

Sure the GTX485M and AMD 6970 can get better numbers but its not like leap and bounds its just a small move forward.

 

*speechless*

Mr. Mysterious

 

I have had dual mobilty 4870's and dual mobility 5870's and have had no real issues.

Alright Vicious everything you said about the name change is right and the desktop 5870 is the equivalent to the desktop 6970 not the 6870, the 6970m is based off a desktop 6850. The 485M(similar to a desktop 460) and the 6970M outperform a single 5870m by about 50% (6970m) and the 485M is about 13% faster than the 6970m. The 5870m is a 5770 (Juniper XT core) with 5750 speeds(700/1000) Now, what you are right about is two 5870m's are = to a desktop 5870 at full utilization. other than that in games that do not utilize crossfire(which is becoming rare now a days) you will see a performance difference in game about 30-50% with a 6970m and a little higher with a 485M.

 

The 485m is definitely better than the 5870? It is a 100watt card though, so it is almost a dual card in itself...

It definitely isn't an overclocked 480m, that was based on the desktop gtx480, and we all know the famous issues plaguing that (frying an egg from the heat). It is based on the desktop 560m TI; it has the same amount of shaders, ROPs, etc. It is however based on older architecture and downclocked.

A 6970m is almost as powerful (like 10% off) as CF 5870. And the 485m is almost dead on (1-5% off). I think that's a big jump. True, the 6870 is nothing more than a downclocked 5870. But the 6970 stomps the 5870, hands down.

If the 485m and 6970m weren't "better", then they wouldn't be putting up better numbers, which translates to more fps...

CF in 6xxx gen cards is better than SLI in 4xx and 5xx series, because AMD fixed CF scaling, putting 6970m CF on par with 485m SLI, despite the 485m winning the single battle.

I see no disadvantage of moving to single gpu, less heat, less problems with drivers, etc.

But if you feel that you paid for 2 gpus, then try and get 2 lower gpus. From the future point of view, it helps you, since if you are upgraded in the future, the system will have a higher chance of retaining dual gpus.

 

To add to this:

GTX 485M = hybrid of the desktop GTX 460 and GTX 560 Ti
GTX 480M = desktop GTX 465

6970M = desktop 6850
5870M = desktop 5 770

Additionally, all of the above mobile chips are clocked lower/slower than their desktop counterparts

As for the OP's issue, I would happily take a single 5870M over 2 outdated 8800M's...

 

Well im an xps m1730 User...i cant really talk about failure rate as the xps have the highest in the Dell history I think...
Anyway my dual 9800m gtx keeps recent games running flawlessy at 1200p always maxed out (exept AA,the lower Ive gone is 2xAA) but it requires good drivers and good sli profiles.

When a game doesn't support sli you're much screwed speaking of native resolution and settings since a single 9800m gtx is just a gtx260m, therefore a bit lowered spec gtx280m.

The hassle is just that, profiles. Beside it the scaling seems to do wonders if you have an higher clocked CPU (and I'm still stuck with a dual core x9000 @ 3,6) in order to avoid bottlenecks.

Luckily the community is pretty active so it's not hard to find custom sli profiles/bits for a particular game. There's always a workaround (well most of the times).

I have experience on both sli and crossfire but one thing is for sure I never go back to crossfire again. Ati drivers gave me always a load of problems, their CAPs are crap since sometimes you need an older caps with newer drivers, which is nonsense.
Their support with latest games is always late compared to nvidia which releases updates (in place of hotfixes).

For my desktop I always go for the single card route, but as long as my xps works with latest things I'm just ok. If I'm still able to game on it in 2011 with latest games while having a great performance while maxing out every title (crisis 2,witches 2,shift 2,black ops) at native resolution (1200p) I don't see why I would need to upgrade my notebook.
Just dx11 is cutting me out of the game...but as long as it lives, I must say that when it works (and doesn't phail) the m1730 is the first awesome example of SLI made right, on a notebook.

 

read the bold

 

It's very hard to classify the GTX 485M because there's no equivalent desktop card. The GTX 485M is a full GF104 chip, whereas the desktop GTX 460 is a lower binned GF104 with certain functional units disabled (along the lines of the desktop GTX 580 vs GTX 570). The GTX 560 Ti, on the other hand, is a full GF114 chip which is a nearly but not quite identical refresh of GF104. On top of that, the GTX 560 Ti runs at much higher clock speeds too, making comparison difficult.

 

Shaders count of a 560 ti(only relation), but it is a GF104 core and that is a 460 not a 560Ti which is a GF114 core.

 

Seems I managed to preempt your reply

 

Lol, That you have my friend! Good points also, but I still think that it would be more comparable to the desktop 460 performance wise, even though it has less shaders it is clocked higher,and the architecture is the same just with some tweaks.

 

Interesting thread and lots of good arguments here to sum it up for me:

460m -> 560m -> 5870m -> 6970m -> 485m

So OP if you are considering the 5870m like I have just stick with the single card because the dual card does not seem worth the price, the heat or the hassle.

I came from the 8700M GT SLI setup and it burned and the performance suffered compared to a single 8800M GT.

On the other hand the results of the 6970M in Crossfire are very good so if you consider them I would say yes go for it because I think I will be eventually.

With my setup I can run Witcher 2 with mostly high/ultra and with the majority of the extra's turned on at 1080p and get 35-45Fps. What more could you want or need from a laptop?

That is my 2 cents.

 

OP
If you play Dirt 2, Dual 5870m rocks that game in Crossfire mode.
This just means dual cards is fantastic only if your game supports sli/crossfire.

I came from dual card to single card solution (6970m now) and I must admit, I don't miss my dual 5870's.

 

Well its not like im wanting a computer for the most extreme gaming just battlefield 3 on ultra settings with atleast 59 fps lol no but honestly i just dont want to be ripped off by dell because theyve been trying to do just that

 

Is Dell putting a 5870m in your old Alienware or replacing it with a m17x r2?
You could just buy an extra 5870m and get Crossfire on it.

 

i have an m1730 xps and they are replacing it with an m17xr2 and i wouldnt want to buy something more when I should just get it standard in the replacement

 

Added in a bit for you.

R2 eh? You could actually add a second 5870 in then LOL.

 

Great advice.
Personally i would just accept the m17x r2 replacement with the single ATI card.
Also if the m17x r2 would accept the m18x powersupply it could also run Crossfire 6970m (with m18x vBIOS) too, but sadly i guess they gotta bios mod it to accept the new powersupply.

 

Xfire 5870 is hardly a hardship though, or single 6970 if you can find one cheap.

 

A single 6970M is $470 shipped, with the heatsink included.

Mr. Mysterious

 

If you had read my post I was against OP purchasing a 5870M Xfire setup so comparing single cards to dual cards in a lineup is about as helpful as a chocolate teapot.

 

It can actually run them now, just will push the 240W adapter to it's limits. I also would just take the R2 and upgrade it myself you can find a secondary 5870 for around 350. bucks. Only if Dell absolutely refuses to give you the second card as part of it.

 

Ajbeagles, if feel that you're entitled to a free upgrade to the latest and greatest, then you'll need to be prepared for a long, hard argument with Dell.

Just make sure you report back afterwards on how it goes so that the rest of us can get some pointers on how to do something similar if the situation ever arises

 

oh dont worry ive been in one for almost 2 weeks now, they feel my computer deserves a basic xps 17 as replacement but not gonna happen

 

Definitely not!

 

funny thing is we have a crappy m17x r2 that we didnt agree to at our house and we just got a phone call from fedex saying a package was being sent to us and it actually is a xps 17, so we will have 2 crappy dell comps at my house and a broken good one...

 

After all the issues I have read about people dealing with here, I will never ever buy a dual setup GPU.

 

What issues exactly? I have had none serious issues in over a year.

 

Unsupported games, unsupported drivers, space and power hungry cards etc.

 

Yikes. I would've assumed you were better informed than that.

GTX 485M uses the better GF104(or GF114) Fermi. GTX 480M used terribad broken GF100 Fermi. They have different core counts and are architecturally different as well. GTX 485M & 470M used GF104, GTX 460M, GT 450M, and GT555M use GF106, and everything lower in the 400M or 500M uses GF108...except GT 520M which is GF119.

GF104, and GF106 got a new core stepping and are now GF114, and GF116. GF114 is the desktop GTX 560 and may end up the GTX 580M...GF116 is the GTX 560M.



Mob. HD5870 used Juniper which was the desktop HD5770 GPU...and is now rebranded as the HD6870M. The good-ole-days of ATI mobile parts=ATI desktop parts ended with the HD4000 series.

HD6970M is Blackcomb XT which is based off desktop HD6850's Barts Pro...a cut down version of Barts XT.

HD6990M is rumored to be Blackcomb XTX, which we should all hope uses the full 1120 SPU of the desktop HD6870 (Barts XT).

 

I doubt we are going to see top tier chips in laptops from now on.

If we do they are going to be very 480m like.

 

The 485m is definitely better than the 5870? It is a 100watt card though, so it is almost a dual card in itself...
This is true partially it is as good as dual 460m's not dual 5870m's performance wise TDP wise yes it is equivalent to dual 5870m's

Don't see where we disagree, never said it was equivalent to 5870CF

It definitely isn't an overclocked 480m, that was based on the desktop gtx480, and we all know the famous issues plaguing that (frying an egg from the heat). It is based on the desktop 560m TI; it has the same amount of shaders, ROPs, etc. It is however based on older architecture and downclocked.

Ok this is not true here, the 480m was never based off the desktop 480 it was really based off the 465 with 460 speeds. ummm it is not based off the desktop 560ti? it is similar to a 460 in the desktop world, and the 485 is similar to the 480m just with a slight upping in shaders and a higher clock rate so no it's not just an overclocked 480m

The 485m is not the power-sucking overheating monster the 480m was. 485m is based on a different architecture than the 480m. Definitely not just an overclocked 480m. I'm no expert on desktop cards, and that is obvious. True it is similar to the gtx460, but it performs like a gtx560.

A 6970m is almost as powerful (like 10% off) as CF 5870. And the 485m is almost dead on (1-5% off). I think that's a big jump. True, the 6870 is nothing more than a downclocked 5870. But the 6970 stomps the 5870, hands down.

This is not true at all. Dual 5870's when fully or even partially utilized outperform a single 6970m hands down and the 6970 performs better than the 5870 in single or crossfire setups, but it is not a single card demolishing two cards and I definitely wouldn't say stomped. An Alienware m17x R2 can score about 19k in vantage stock with an extreme processor and with the m18x the 2920xm and the dual 6970's are scoring around 22-23 not this drastic stomping you are speaking about. Also, in the desktop cards the 6970 only outperforms the 5870 by ten FPS sometimes less

I'm not saying 6970 stomps 5870CF. I'm saying it beats it single one on one. A 40% gain from one generation to the next is a very good jump. The part about the desktop 6970, how is that even relevant? They aren't based of those cards anyways.

If the 485m and 6970m weren't "better", then they wouldn't be putting up better numbers, which translates to more fps...
Synthetic benchmarks are really not a key indicator of in game performance companies tailor cards to utlize these programs better so where you may see a 50% improvement in a 6970m over a 5870m in synthetics that may only translate to 30-50% in game over again a single card

You just listed above how 6970m doesn't beat the 5870 by much in vantage, and now you are downplaying the value of benchmarks anyways. True, benchmarks do not necessarily mean real world performance. But they do give a reasonable view of performance. Sometimes a card might outperform its predecessor by a large margin; other times it might barely be an improvement.

CF in 6xxx gen cards is better than SLI in 4xx and 5xx series, because AMD fixed CF scaling, putting 6970m CF on par with 485m SLI, despite the 485m winning the single battle.
Dude where do you get your information from because that is not true most of what AMD has done was improve on the tessellation performance and shaders.

Go look around in this forum for 6970CF vs 485mSLI, or stop by the m18x forum. It was been well established that AMD put in great crossfire scaling this generation, making the 6970m (which was behind the 485m by ~1-10%) roughly equal in CF to 485m SLI.

I see no disadvantage of moving to single gpu, less heat, less problems with drivers, etc.

This I can finally actually agree on with you

But if you feel that you paid for 2 gpus, then try and get 2 lower gpus. From the future point of view, it helps you, since if you are upgraded in the future, the system will have a higher chance of retaining dual gpus.
He should get a dual GPU solution namely an m18x because of his dual GPU setup now performance wise a single 5870m is better than his dual 8800mGT setup. So honestly he can just try and see if Dell will give him an R2 with dual 5870's

 

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id like to point out vantage is cpu bound at that point.

You either switch to high/extreme or 11.