EA/Origin (you must read this)

thanks to RazerCell for link

shocked is an understatement when i read this.

for everyone looking forward to Battlefield 3 or any other game from EA/Origin
you are going to want to read this.

talk about selling your soul to the devil.
i will seriously have to think long and hard before i buy from them due to their terms and conditions.

thats another point to COD MW3 i bet they are loving this.

read the shocking invasion of privacy > The Escapist : Forums : The News Room : Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy

just in case you are at work and cant open the link.

 

The armchair lawyers in that thread are adorable.

Look, they're collecting data. Everyone collects data.

Nothing in there is horribly shocking. Show me the parts that really get your hackles up.

 

Clearly some people do not value their privacy but I do. Good bye BF3.

 

It took this long for someone to read the TOS and be outraged over it?

 

Especially when it's fairly standard boilerplate legalese for any online service?

 

That's what I was thinking. I've never liked EA, and plan to continue to not buy their products.

 

it's no newsflash that the internet is not anonymous anymore.

 

ive never used origin so its news to me. yes most places collect data but thats just going overboard.

 

steam does the exact same thing.

Valve Privacy Policy

 

What's overboard about it? Point out the passages that bother you.

 

Steam gives you a choice, that is not the exact same thing.

 

No it doesn't. It gives you a choice about system information, but it most certainly collects usage data from you, and obviously it collects personally identifiable information if you ever buy anything through it. It's the exact same thing.

 

i have patient confidentiality material on my computer so if i accept their terms then i am potentially giving them permission to search my computer which i have no intention of doing.

 

Steam gives you precisely the same choice as origin- either use their products and services and have your data collected, or don't.

@hockeymass: I'm not making a statement about data-mining. I'm just pointing out that it's inconsistent to be all up in arms over origin data mining if you're already a steam user.

 

i didn't mean to respond in a rude way, since i agree with you. i'm just saying that their collection of information on its users is paramount for their marketing and future revenue. the more in depth data they can collect, the better, but for us, it's an anonymous/privacy issue. best thing one can do is to not use it and let the users choose. if lots of people don't like the policy, perhaps they will change it if adoption rates are too slow or low.

 

no worry's cenix.

 

I'm agreeing with you.

No you're not. It is not a consent for them to mine your computer for little information treasures. It is a consent for them to keep info relating to software usage and your use of their products.

 

Well if they say they can collect data from other applications how can they do that? I mean I don't care if it's in their ToS, that's illegal to take someone's personal information unknowingly, even if it's called out up front. Every time it was grabbing information it would have to tell you it was and you would have to consent. Blanket statements or agreements never hold up, they need to be specific. In any case this is similar to most online services.

People seem to confuse laws and agreements or terms. If you consent, it doesn't mean it's the law or that it's even legal, it just means you agree to their terms in order to use their service.

 

Another example of how the "customer" is just seen as a "consumer"; yes I still define and seen them as separate entities..

I know valve does this also, but I wish it weren't the case. Not that I'm against Valve knowing who is playing their games, and protecting piracy, but because most companies (I suspect valve and EA) do very little to actually protect the information; the purpose of the recent hacking events was a reminder that "Big Business" doesn't do a very good job protecting identifiable information because there's no profit in it.

Nor do I like the fact that the info is stored and kept for marketing purposes; yes I know every company does this: Google, yahoo, Safeway club cards, etc... etc...).

I wish I could also make such demands:
"by replying to my messages you are agreeing to allow alexmuw to access information to identifiable information on your computer, which may be used for data collection and marketing purposes".

If only.....

 

Indeed, best way to deal with these is not use it or limit the amount of information it can access.

I've got a decade's worth of grievances with EA, but in my eyes they're no different from any of the other major players in gaming. Just do what's best for you.

 

And how do you limit the amount of information it can access?

 

Keep it on a separate laptop/desktop dedicated to gaming, separate Windows user, or maybe dual booting.

 

This is why I don't steal from people but I don't mind stealing from companies. They screw us and end up making millions.

 

LMFAO dude. That is a good one. Put a smile on my face.

 

What's the big deal? Steam/Valve already do this. All you Apple iPhone users, why don't you look at the agreement you signed. Make that any Apple device that connects to the net user. Why don't you check the privacy statement from Google? All you social media chumps, look at the agreement for Facebook etc.

And I'm sure plenty of people don't read the more friendly software that say they want to collect usage information from you to better their product and click yes for them. Though their purpose for doing so is more friendly and I think genuine, better product, not to use you as a statistic to market and make millions (FireFox etc).

 

i personally dont care about this whole privacy business. even though i would never use origin unless bf3 turns out to be super awesome

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

which it will be really awesome bf3> mw3 in all possible ways

 

Like I was going to get origin anyway.

Call me stubborn but I just want steam to be the sole DLC platform. If origin can manage to push steam out the way and make its own business then what's to say the same thing won't happen again to origin? A few years down the road the same thing could have happened twice and then you have to have lots of platforms installed just to run all your games. All I want is for all my games to be in one place forever more, and steam does well enough.

 

You sir have earned the intelligent hat.
Well said, I'm certainly repping you.

I doubt someone like Steam or EA would dig through your computer and personal files. Do you really think EA needs your crap in their files or needs your worthless information (No offence)

 

^^ Agreed I doubt they would want to gather a lot of useless info.

 

For me it's not above them being malicious with our data, it's about them being incompetent with the security of the data.

 

Sounds like the typical statement that most software comes with that allows them to perform things like driver updates etc without blatantly breaking the law.

 

Tons of software acts this way. You're totally right. Other companies and software that make similar concessions: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Windows, OS X, Android, iOS, iTunes, Google Chrome, Steam, Origin

 

What about where it mentions being able to email to opt out (Valve) and also being able to instruct them to remove all of your stored data?

 

a) the opt out is just for promotional email. it's nice, but it has nothing to do with data mining.

b) if all your personal information is up there, they could have already shared it with their partners. it's great that you can remove it, but if it's already been shared, then it won't *really* remove it, it will still exist with various valve-partners. Meanwhile, you could have just not given them any personal information to begin with. Same with origin.

 

Valve and EA's policies are not boilerplate, they both claim to collect and disperse information, but are different when it comes to how liberally they do this:

They both collect information about how you use THEIR software; however EA doesn't stop there- they also collect information about various other software and hardware on your system.

Even if both policies were verbatim the same, the company backing the policy is almost as important as the policy itself. EA's long-tarnished reputation towards gamers whose back's they ride on and stab daily means any policy they produce is immediately rendered a blood-signed contract tendering one human soul unless stated otherwise.

 

there is a skidrow crack you can apply to ur games, it renders steam useless and you can manually update it.

 

^No talk about illegal warez please

And welcome, to da' pirate club. HERYE!

 

You're reading things that aren't there into both of those statements.

 

You cropped out the part of valve's privacy policy where they state that in addition to aggregate information, they also collect your "individual information" and "personal information".

It's literally the same thing. They will collect data on you. They will share it with their partners in a way that does not identify you as an individual. Exactly the same as EA and origin.

 

You have patient confidentiality material on a computer you use for gaming and web surfing? Whether Origin collects software usage information or not doesn't appear to be your biggest problem.

 

Just like the ones in here.

 

Is that a dig at me? 'Cause I'm right.

 

I get what you're saying, but that's exactly why you'd probably never realize it if they did it (not saying they are).

Honestly I'm just glad that threads like these pop up, so that more people can be aware of what it is they are "agreeing" to. Yes, many-to-most of the companies mentioned in this thread do it as well, not just EA, but that doesn't mean it's right. The more people are aware of these things, hopefully the more they can make better decisions. Keep voicing out people, keep talking. Please just don't blindly purchase these things just because...That's exactly what they want and what the millions spent on advertising is meant to do.

As for BF3, I'm not buying for other reasons:

 

yeh mine

 

Since we're in the law business here, let's not forget what happened to Sony a few months back.
Their policy is almost the same except the fact that you're not running a computer with user data.
Their mailing list/newsletter offers a tos similar to the ones steam and origin do, and they're utterly invasive, but the user can choose to subscribe to them or not.
Edit: Sony media studio used for PSN store access on a computer to Download games and stuff have the same "data collecting for statistic and usage purpose".

What I mean is that I'm pretty sure that alot of software we commonly use everyday have the same problematic privacy invasion.

Also when things have to go wrong no one can put your privacy and security under a glass: again Sony teaches us that 7million of users have been raped, and we are speaking about credit card info, not a soft tos writing.

 

Valve and EA may have similar terms of service but I'd still trust Valve not to crap on us more than I'd trust EA.

 

I have just collected data on all of you. I now know your usernames, email addresses, computer details, marketing opinions and can predict your political allegiances. And none of you even signed my privacy statement.

Whether or not companies collect your data and personal information is not really the issue here. The issue is clearly, do you like EA? People that say yes or are indifferent are generally those defending Origin by saying everyone is doing it. People who don't like EA are complaining that they have taken it too far.

I have many beefs with many companies (Google, Bookface, Apple) about their privacy policies, but these are all companies that I also have a general dislike for. Companies like EA, Valve, Microsoft, Yahoo get a much broader pass because I like their products or agree with their philosophies on some level.

My point is this is all subjective. I'm buying BF3 even if they force me to bar code the back of my head Hitman style. I just really want to play the game. If you use a service, someone is collecting data on you. Guess we are all suckers in the end.

 

Exactly my point. There's nothing new in this document that hasn't been said in a thousand others. It's just that it's EA and EA is evil and so everything they do is bad. That's what makes the Escapist thread so comical. NERDRAGE!!!