Fallout has DRM: SecuROM 7. Um... WHAT?!

Don't know if this is widely known (given Bethesda promised otherwise), but it seems Bethesda has been lying to us.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46245

there's the link to NMA. Wondering if I should cancel my order now. : (

 

I ordered it on steam but will DRM be on the steam version too?

 

So do you have the x305 with the 9700m gts? let me know how it plays on max settings ok? I was thinking about going thru steam but wanted to get the retail so at least I can feel what I bought then just use the no cd crack. But maybe because of this DRM thing I just might get it off steam.

 

Apparently it has SecuROM 7 . . . which is not that bad according to some of the posters in the thread you linked. I agree with one of the posters who said that it's still bad since the game is installing the SecuROM software without your permission. Will it stop me from buying the game? Not sure yet.

DRM actually promotes piracy. My problem with DRM is these companies are treating paying, legit customers like petty thieves. It's despicable.

 

Will this be on the console version (specifically the 360 version).

I hear horrible things about that SecuROM program. Like it's malware.

 

It hasnt been released on steam in europe yet, for some weird and wonderful reason, but I will let you know when it does!

 

I will be pretty irritated if it indeed installs SecuROM onto my computer, but since I got the survival edition I can just eBay it to someone and maybe make a profit off it at a later time.

 

Well... you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a game WITHOUT some form of copy-protection. (Good ol' Sins).

As no doubt mentioned before, its ridiculous to not buy a game because it has some form of copy-protection. Sure its a stupid policy but support the darn developers if the game is actually good. (perhaps unlike Spore)

 

I'm pretty sure the SecuROM component is only a disc check. The Russian version, however, seems to have full blown SecuROM.

 

I want to buy good games, I really want to... but I dont want other things installed on my computer that will do funny things without my knowledge, I understand that DRM is not that overly damaging to a computer but its the principal that making me grind my teeth...

 

This is what I hate the most. Those of us, myself and others, that are actually buying the game are getting targeted.

 

That's exactly it though, why does the honest consumer have to go through all that?

 

Not sure if anyone ran into this yet, but I came across a fix for Securom interfering with emulation programs. Just in case...

http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=emu&c=2500

 

30 seconds after I installed Fallout 3 I applied the 'nodvd' enhancement. No problem!

 

You should never tell people to support piracy.

Just because they wan't to protect thier software, no matter how rediculous thier measures are, it's no excuse for STEALING what they just spent several millions of dollars to produce.

It may be harder for legit buyers, and they are further making people want to get the pirated version just to aviod all of this. But keep in mind that several THOUSANDS of people need to get paid for thier years of work on this.

If anything, just stop buying any game on any platform if it has obtrusive DRM on the PC, and in turn fully support games that do not include this type of DRM. Also having tens of thousands of people spamming thier forums in rage might help.. But still theft is not the option.

 

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear...

 

I agree with you, just don't buy the game if you're not happy about it.
But PLEASE note, piracy is NOT theft, when you steal, the original owner no longer have his/her item, when you illegaly download a piece of software, the author is not deprived of his/her ownership. They are both illegal though.


EDIT: lets not make buying a game sound like giving charity to developers, they are still making millions despite piracy, they really don't need it. we buy games to enjoy them and that should be the sole reason of the purchase.

 

in the guys defense he did say after youve downloaded it go out and buy the actual game so you are still supporting the company, just not having to put up with any DRMs

 

copyright infringement already occured, still illegal. sorry

 

Your still adding one more download to the amount of times the game has been pirated. Developers aren't idiots, they can see these statistics. Then they get angry and turn away from PC exclusives or turn to delayed PC releases.

 

There will always be a market for PC games... and because of that there will always be someone willing to profit from it.

Note, instead of looking at the "number of pirated copies" developers should be looking at "number of sold copies".

Most of the people who pirate will NEVER buy it and would never have bought it.

DRM doesn't solve the problem of piracy... it only hurts the people who legitimately buy the game.

I am not even sure why people use SecuROM anymore... it is already pretty easy to beat and is a pretty annoying malware.

Note that in this case, I want Fallout3, but I refuse to install SecuROM.
I will find a way to do so, but meanwhile there are developers who aren't getting my money quite so timely because they did something stupid.

 

No your looking at it backwards. Piracy only hurts the people who legitimately bought the game.

 

Agreed.

I have decided to boycott games like Far Cry 2 and Spore that involve ridiculous DRM controls. I won't ever play the game unless a less restrictive version is released (unlikely).

Piracy is stealing, and it's no way to combat DRM.

That's right. Look where piracy has gotten us - this DRM BS that is running rampant now.

The only thing that will get these companies, specifically EA, to change their minds is a hit to the pocketbook. Follow the money.

 

Last night I stumbled upon Monopoly PIXAR Edition. Not a computer game, a board game. I bought it since there's no DRM b.s. associated with it (and, hey, it's PIXAR!). It's a sign of the downfall of PC games as we know it. I'm just sayin'.

 

Unfortunately when a game is made cross platform they still have 3 other systems to make money off. I only see boycotting pc games leading to them not making pc games anymore. They already complain enough about people illegally obtaining pc games. If they lose money because of illegal downloading and now people won't even buy it, it doesn't even make sense to make a pc version to start with.

Even the once glorified steam, which was supposed to be a answer to this problem implements the drm. As for not being informed about securom being installed, people should know already when the back of the box says and I quote from my far cry 2 box "This video game is protected by digital rights management software which installs additional components required for copy protection on the user's computer and limits the number of installations of the game. During the installation and or the first launch, an online connection is required to unlock the game."

Companies have a right to protect their software. Even a company like Microsoft which said only a week ago that there is no way to stop illegal copies, just updated everyones computer "at least in china" to lock them out of their office programs and even in some cases their os. Microsoft's reason, 200 million computer users are believed by Microsoft to be using counterfeit software.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10120&Itemid=1

Considering how many games EA and other publishers spit out each year I'm sure the number is severely larger worldwide. I can understand how people are concerned about not being able to play these games later on, but we haven't even reached that point yet. I don't see whats wrong with downloading a hack that gets around cd checks and online checks, so thats what I do "after I buy the game".

 

Excuse me, but isn't this a little hypocritical considering your comments here:

I high-lighted the main point at the bottom. Look, I'm not trying to start something here, but you are contradicting your sanctimonius sentiments.

 

haha yea I know. It is, but that was kindof my point. Piracy is never the answer, but this is a game by Dice we're talking about, it's going to be a good game I'd hope. Tack on EA as the publisher, and there's really no other options are there? Your options are either steal the game like a coward thief, or buy it, and have the possiblility that you won't even be able to play it.

Those are some terrible options aren't they?

 

I agree, it's a crappy situation. EA is consulting with Satan on this one I think. But if enough people boycott it and band together to form a lawsuit then they might back off.

 

Um, you have the issues like the game you legally purchased refusing to run unless you uninstall a bunch of applications. Many people have had to remove burning or emu programs like Nero, Roxio, Alcohol and Daemon Tools, all of which are legit.

If you pirate a game that you would have paid for had the option to get it for free not been available, you are depriving developers of money that is legally theirs, and that, my friend, is theft. Intellectual property and licenses that give you the right to legally run a piece of software cannot be physically stolen in the sense you have described, but it can be stolen nonetheless, and if you pirate a game you would otherwise have paid for, you are a thief.

If you buy the game, then download a copy and crack it, there's no infringement. You have already paid for the license and the right to have the software installed on your personal computers.

But morally, as long as you buy the game within a reasonable amount of time (ie before the price drops), I personally don't see a problem with downloading first.

 

Ok, here's a scenario:

Joe is a common computer gamer. College student who spends most of his money on school or beer. Whatever's left goes into his computer and other hobbies (which isn't much). Joe uses the torrent sites, like a large number of people do and has many copies of illegal games and apps installed on his system.

Now " Joe" downloads and finds he really likes "Game A" and he wants to play online, which most cracked copies won't do. He googles the game to see how much it is, at this point he has decided he wants to buy it. What he finds instead is multiple threads about "Game A" having a common form of DRM. Joe knows enough to realise that DRM will most likely interfere with the illegal software he currently has and be troublesome as well, and decides not to buy the game on this basis.

Now yes, Joe shouldn't haven't any illegal software on his computer, and it IS stealing... but that's not the issue. People say "it shouldn't bother you if you've done nothing wrong", but that's not always true, and secondly this isn't a perfect world. Torrents have become what Napster was, EVERYONE uses them, not just the highest tech. I've heard Grandmother's talking about it for classic movies.

Whether or not Joe has pirated software, if he buys YOUR game, that's money in your pocket. Companies need to look at the world in grey, because that's how it really works. Large corporations, of all entities, should know this, and if they do, it will mean better sales.

"There is no good and evil, only choices." Treating someone who pirates as if they would never buy software is stupid, and treating legal customers as if they have no recourse is stupid too. No one likes to be spied on, and no one likes buggy software, and that's all DRM has accomplished so far.

 

Stealing is stealing.....if EA wanted to, they could go after individuals just like the music companies did.

 

I don't see the harm with securom. Sure, it installs without consent, but you have to think of the game companies. I plan on getting into the gaming business and I now see how much harm piracy does. People don't think it is such a big offense, but think of this. A company makes a really good game (like fallout 3) and put it on the market. People go out and buy the game and put money into the hands of the people who made the game. Then one guy puts it on a warez site/torrent. Thousands download the game and the company loses money. Then one guy puts the same game on a few more sites and then even more people download it. If you do the math, that is a lot of money that is not going to the people who are making the game. Because of that, the company will not receive as much money and would take even longer to make even better games. People say that if it is a great game, people will buy it. Not true, it would only encourage to download even more. It is the pirates that caused the usage of securrom and other software like that to be implemented and they are the start complaining. Is the system perfect, no, will it become better overtime, probably. I agree that there are some flaws that could effect innocent consumers, but hopefully the issues will be resolved.

 

I think you miss the point.. There's nothing wrong with copy protection. But Securom DOES NOT stop pirates, it doesn't even effect them at all. This ONLY effects LEGIT buyers.

 

Exactly! I wouldn't have any problem with any DRMs that were guaranteed not to mess with/slow down my system in any way.

That said, I could accept small issues, if I didn't know that the pirates would have cracked it within 24 hours of its release.

 

What about patches or commonly known as "cracks", are they considered legit?

For example, Joe decided to get Game A, he bought the legit version of the game but prior to launching the game, he download a small patch, not the game, but a much smaller patching program that overwrites the original exe to one without the DRM protection. Now Joe has supported the game company by purchasing the game, did not violate copy-right infringement for downloading the game, and does not have to suffer the side effects of DRM. Would this scenario work?

 

I wonder why companies even bother with DRM anymore. Don't they see that it is futile? Nearly any form of copy protection can and will be circumvented.

 

But if it's something like securom, from my understanding the DRM is installed parallel with the game, so it's already on his system (though I guess that probably happens even with torrented copies?). Yes there's ways to remove it, and even an official securom fix, but have a little OCD when it comes to computer housekeeping.

If I've been installing and uninstalling a bunch of stuff, I can end up backing up the stuff I want then formatting every six months or so, so my registry is mint and I know that there are no virii.

It's insane I know, but I don't want that **** on my computer in the first place.

 

You're missing the point. Going after pirates doesn't increase their sales.

They want better sales, they need to change that attitude.

 

if its so much trouble for some of u guys to do as i said stop whining and go buy the game. Obviously some of u r not happy with anything.

 

Why dont they make demos anymore? Cant we try before we buy? Almost all software producers make their software with a trial period and games used to release a small part of a game to promote it anyways...

 

Most games do but this didnt because its a marketing trick, The game is pretty different from Fallout 1 and 2 and very hyped up the be the best game of the universe, If they had a demo what do u think would happen?

 

So you are tired of burglars and you set up a booby trap system which shoots burglars.

Only the burglars have a method around your system and you still get stolen from. The problem is the system starts shooting innocent people...

It is obviously the burglars' fault right so you should not dismantle your booby trap on the off chance it actually works sometimes?


Two wrongs do not make a right.

The people getting hurt are the people who are not at fault in any way.
They BOUGHT your game, why are they being punished?

DRM is a horribly ineffective solution to make execs feel like the did something, and meanwhile the legitimate owners are being treated like criminals.

Get rid of DRM and make the product worth buying.
The people who will buy it will do just that.

 

This is actually inaccurate. Bethesda has never said that they will not use DRM or Securom. In fact, they explicitly stated ahead of time that they will use DRM, but that this DRM will only be a disk-check. And that is exactly what they have done: Fallout 3 has DRM that is only a disk-check - there is none of this online activation and limited install rubish that EA is trying to foist upon us in its games.

There is a world of difference between DRM schemes used and Bethesda's is by far better than EA's. The two shouldn't be confused - we should reward companies that use mild, relatively consumer friendly DRM and punish those that impose Draconian DRM (DDRM) on their legitimate customers.

 

I wouldn't trust anything coming from nma, they are pretty anti-Fallout 3.

 

I disagree. First, both use Securom with all of the nuisances associated therewith (incompatibility with certain software and hardware, installation of its service, garbage in the registry, etc.). Second, I prefer EA's one time online check (at least as implemented in Mass Effect) to a disk check every single time I start the game. I've always found the disk checks annoying, particularly since I have to travel a lot and I dislike dragging a pile of disks around with me. The online authentication is also annoying, but it is only annoying once.

 

The thing is, that unlike a disk-check, online authentication negatively impacts the longevity of the game. What if you want to play the game 10 or 15 years from now (and yes, I still do that for nostalgia's sake with some games) and the activation servers no longer exist? That is very feasible - even big and successful companies in the computer games industry go bankrupt in those timeframes. CD-check may be annoying, but I outright refuse to buy games that will expire on me in the future. That's the reason I didn't get Mass Effect, even though I am a fan of BioWare's games.

 

Maybe my thinking on this is backward, but maybe DRM causing people to boycott a game, and thus game companies stop making pc games is a good thing. Why? So nobody has to spend $3000+ a year upgrading to keep up with the ever increasing demanding specs of new games.
Ok maybe that's not realistic. I boycott ALL games that use any kind of DRM, sans a product key and/or disc check. I purchase all my software and I always will, but I absolutely refuse to support any company that imposes DRM crap on us, no matter how good the game might be. Music, games, all of it. And guess what? The last game I bought was Battlefield 2, and that's fine with me. New games don't interest me like they used to anyway. Ok so I know that's not a realistic scenario for everyone, but it's fine for me. But one thing is for sure, any computer I buy now would last me a long, long time.

 

I too am unwilling to put up with draconian DRM (DDRM), especially online activation and limited installs. I do accept disc checks and serial keys. Don't despair, though, there are still games worth buying that don't have draconian DRM. Fallout 3 has a disk check, for example. If you like old school games, King's Bounty: The Legend is an old-school RPG/strategy hybrid - I just bought it today and it is really, really good.

 

I just bought Fallout 3 retail and used the no cd crack. Infact I do this to all the games I own and it's just so much more convenient this way. Before I buy any game I google the game to see if it already has a no cd crack released, if it doesn't then I don't purchase no matter how good it might be. I find it a huge hassle to load a cd for every game I want to play. So my question is how will this securom affect the no cd cracks for future games and even fallout since it's fairly new and might get updates? Also since I just got Fallout 3, what is the cd key for and why would I want to connect to Windows Live? If I do will it affect the no cd crack?

 

Then I will download a utility that takes care of this issue. In situations where there is no other way to play the game, these begin to be available even on more or less legitimate sites (if whoever is maintaining the servers is gone, they're not likely to complain). Making a 10 or 15 year old game work properly is usually a bit of a pain no matter what -- there's no guarantee that Windows 10 or 12 will support Mass Effect (or that Windows will even be around that long). One extra download makes little difference in that case.