Funny how this generation, you're getting punished extra by choosing the high end mobile chips...

It always used to be that you could pay a lot extra to get a more powerful, power hungry mobile graphics chip.

But this generation, not only are you paying a LOT more for the big mobile Nvidia GPUs (870m, 880m), you're at the same time getting older tech that runs much hotter for the same performance (Kepler vs the Maxwell in the 860m).

Am I the only one to think this is a bit bizarre? I mean, when you pay more, you should get a better product, not just two steps forward and a big step back...

This thread is not meant to complain, I'm just genuinely puzzled

 

The 870m and 880m blow away the 860m, even a highly OC'd one. Yes they definitely do run hotter, and it would be nice to have a top end Maxwell, but it will be here soon, just not as quickly as most of us would like especially after seeing the performance of the 860m Maxwell and potential it has in performance and reduced power and thermals compared with Kepler.

It is quite frustrating and confusing though why nVidia is doing this. I know there are issues with making these chips on the smaller process but they could have taped out the 870m and 880m with Maxwell 28nm. Not to mention removing SLI from the GTX 860m Maxwell.

 

It buisness at the end of the day.. They have 0 incentive to release Maxwell since AMD's offering are just keeping with Keppler.. Once AMD releases something that own Keppler, then they will release Maxwell in earnest...

 

Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy the hell out of the 860m-equipped w230ss.
What I'm waiting for is the day when laptop manufacturers really revamp cooling and start making flagship ultraportables. I'm talking about piezo dissipation, of using advanced thermal interfaces to lower cooling bottlenecks. Coupled with 20nm fabs, power-efficient architectures, I want to see the next gen 14" Razer Blade for example, handle a full flagship GPU.
I'd like to see the next sli-equipped Aorus handle a pair of GTX-980M's.

But until then AMD needs to show some game, or risk losing any word in the lightweight laptop market. It's actually a bit sad, since the 7870M was a pretty awesome chip with low power constraints.

 

This.

Nvidia is dominating the mobile department at the moment. AMD is there somewhere, with the R9 M290X which is the exact chip as 7970M. Which lags 20% behind GTX 880M.
Nvidia use the opportunity to do minor (stupid) tweaks like removing 64bit or adding some VRAM, and slapping on a new name.
So Nvidia can charge whatever they want, because people are kinda forced to buy them since AMD is rarely seen

We need AMD and hopefully the R9 M295X is enough to push Nvidia toward releasing something new instead of the stupid rebrands.

 

What we need is more fierce competition from AMD to push nVidia to make/release better chips. I'm still on the 7970M and refused to upgrade to 8970M or the R9 M290X because its the same core. Same with nvidia. the 780M, and 880M, are just re-hashs of the 680M. I'm excited for next year, where we get completely new cores (I think)

 

You don't need to upgrade to the 8970M... just flash a higher clocked BIOS and you'll reach their clocks...

Edit: who needs to flash BIOS? I'm using EVGA Precision X to OC ,, Reached 950/1350 and had no issues.. Max temps of 77C while playing War Thunder...

 

All of this being said, we really do need new drivers for the 800m+ I feel like that'll make upper 800's( 860m,870m,880m) GPU users feel a little more secure in their purchases.

 

I don't think they'll be any magical driver releases that are going to be significantly increasing the performance of these Kepler chips (same architecture for 2 years). And any improvements aren't just applicable to the high end 860M/870M/880M, improvements would generally be across the board - they have unified drivers for all NVidia GPU's (not specific drivers for specific cards). What you see now with 800M in terms of performance is pretty much what you'll get in the future.

 

You could always flash svl7's improved (and unlocked) vBIOS so the 880M will actually perform as advertised and work a bit better even at stock

 

Also comes in 870M and Kepler 860M variety too.

 

Uhh, some of you are way off. Nvidia isn't holding back anything because of AMD. AMD is highly competitive in the desktop market, so it's obvious that Nvidia would've released way more 28nm Maxwell cards than just the 750 series, if they could. This would also have led to more mobile cards for us.

tl;dr - they don't have cards ready, but it isn't because they've gotten lazy.

 

Is what you're actually saying that laptops release too fast?

 

no he is saying that the chip designers are having trouble with the miniaturisation of the processes and other hurdles

 

What I don't like is that right now I can only afford a 870m and that's already pushing my budget. Yet compared to a desktop card its benchmarking is inferior to a GTX760. :| I have great hope in the performance boost Maxwell will bring but Nvidia is pissing me off by not releasing anything. ):<

 

The 780M and 880M are *not* re-hashes of the 680M, they're definitely different. The core count, memory and stock clocks have all been increased, albeit with extra power drain. There's also no 2GB version of either card, though 4GB 680Ms exist. The 880M and 780M is basically the same card though, I agree.

 

They are rehashes of the 680mx though that was launched the same year as the 680m

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

 

I think it is impressive that the 7970M is only 20% behind the new 880M.

Considering it's age it has held it's own rather well. Plus almost all cards can OC at least 100mhz to 950mhz putting it up with the R9 290MX or whatever it's called

 

I don't find that impressive at all... Its a 680mx and I know the performance figures since 2012...

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

 

Yes, true, however that was for iMacs and not meant to be in the mobile platforms, as well as had a lot less core speed. I'm happy with the way the 780Ms came out... though I am not happy with the 880M releases. I'm even less happy with the core speed going all over the bloody place on the 780/880Ms without using the vBIOS. I even got graphical glitches with the 780Ms when I had my screen on 120Hz. I literally NEEDED to updated the vBIOS or my system wouldn't even work as sold.

 

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Could you post a link to this for us new 880m users?
I am interested in checking the svl7 BIOS mod and see what it does for me.
Thanks.

What are the reviews and experiences with this BIOS mod from those that have used it?
Is it stable or is it too risky to use?
I don't want to brick my new Sager with some untested and risky BIOS that may or may not work.
Anyone out there use this unlocked vBIOS?

 

Price discrepancy is pretty ridiculous on these nvidias.

900eu(1220$) for an i7 with a 860m, 1500-1700 eu(2k-2.3k) for a 870m and 1800-2000k eu(2500-2800$) for an 880m. Yeah ok I'll pay 800 bucks for a 20% increase over my 860m maxwell, get bent.

 

Here's the link to the forum where all of the modified vBIOS can be found (modified Kepler vBIOS):
NVIDIA Kepler VBIOS mods - Overclocking Editions, modified clocks, voltage tweaks

The vBIOS files are listed in post #2 of that thread, instructions on flashing in post #1. The 880M modified vBIOS disables the boost function and instead allows the GPU to run at the previous maximum boost clock by default (993Mhz). It runs at stock voltage while doing so. The vBIOS also allows for overvolting & overclocking, as well as allows you to change the throttling temperature and Power Target. This is all manipulated by you using a free program called NVidia Inspector. The benefit of this vBIOS is that it removes the ridiculous & common throttling behaviour of the 880M, allowing 993Mhz the whole time. (It also removes the +135Mhz overclocking limit of the core, but to be honest you'll be lucky to overclock it beyond that point while maintaining good temperatures anyway.)

It's not risky to use, as long as you leave it at stock voltage, and keep an eye on your temperatures (below 90 degC). If you card does die for whatever reason (sometimes they just do, even if you hadn't have flashed a modified vBIOS), then this might invalidate your warranty if your manufacturer finds out you flashed a modified vBIOS. You will however want to check by some googling (within that thread & other places) if there are any weird incompatibilities with flashing a modified vBIOS to your model of laptop/notebook - sometimes these incompatibilities can exist, which you'll want to research.

 

You need to visit the Tech Inferno forums to get hold of the modded vbios. If you make 5 qualilty posts you'll be able to download it. Alternatively you can fast track that and become a member for $5.
I've been using the 780m mod made by the same crew (Svl7 & Johnksss) and its fantastic. I expect no less from the 880m

 

You get a much bigger boost than 20% bro,maybe 860M's in SLI might match a single 880M or be slightly better but then again you deal with SLI issues, I will agree the pricing is a bit high but that's another story.....
I don't understand how your being punished, no one is forcing you to buy one.