"Future proof" gaming laptops

Hello all,

I'm in the market for a new notebook (old one died), and being a mid-core gamer that would like more gaming options than my console has to offer, I would like for it to be a gaming notebook. I would also like it to be something that will last as long as possible, and I understand the biggest hurdle to gaming laptop's longevity is the short lifespan of GPUs, which you typically can't upgrade on laptops. Now that eGPU options are starting to become plentiful, this doesn't seem to be as much of an issue. And even without eGPUs, I've heard the term "future proof" thrown around for many newer gaming laptops--especially those soon-to-come laptops that will have both Skylake processors and Pascal mobile graphics.

But how far into the future can a "future proof" gaming laptop actually last? For instance...

1. Are eGPUs actually useful for future proofing, or will an aging CPU or Thunderbolt 3 connection quickly become a serious bottleneck for future generations of desktop GPUs?
   
2. How long do you think a laptop with a Skylake processor and Pascal mobile graphics card might last before new game releases become unplayable?
   
3. What is the typical lifespan of a gaming laptop before it dies completely (assuming it handles heat decently, its CPU and GPU are never manually overclocked, and it experiences moderate gaming usage)?

And I'm sure these aren't the only things to consider when trying to figure out whether a laptop is "future proof," so if you have any other insights, I'd appreciate those as well.

I know that these questions can only be answered approximately, given differences between different laptops/components/users, but I would appreciate any informed opinions you may have. Thanks.

 

i dont know what to tell you as the new consoles will be coming out soon. i say the 980 970m and 1080m will be good for 2 years at medium...then once the consoles have been out for a year the flagship gpus will last 3-4 years....mind you i owned a 6990m a long time ago and today its still a good card just like a 950m which is like a 1000 dollar laptop today. that was a while back and getting 16k in vantage means it can still game on medium/high at 1080p..

my best advice to you is never get a midrange card as they are outdated the second they come out. i have a 965m overclocked insanely and i get 20fps in wiitcher 3 maxed...so my card by definition is already out dated. if i were to play at high id get 40fps...but then again my old 6990m would get 30fps on the same settings and well they both would be able to rock the game at high.

 

Your 6990M is not even remotely close to a 965M.

 

i had a 6990m now i have a 965m lol....are you alright dude....did you even read the post

 

External GPUs have not been widespread for long (I'm not actually sure that they're widespread now) so it is difficult to estimate how long a laptop supported by one would last. In the past, CPUs have not been a significant bottleneck for graphics, but that might change if you pair a truly high-end desktop GPU with an older laptop CPU. I would guess that if you buy a decent CPU (i.e. an i7 quad-core), it should last you the life of the laptop.

What is your definition of "unplayable"? New game releases are limited by the consoles so unless the optimization for PC is really bad, you should generally be able to play them... but you may need to turn down some settings to do so. Some game developers like to use the maximum settings to play with new graphics technologies and even high-end desktops will struggle with those. If you're willing to do without the bells and whistles, it should last you 3 years or so (possibly longer depending on the kind of games you play).

A laptop is not a biological organism so it never dies completely. As long as you are willing to pay for parts and repair, components can be replaced to keep it working indefinitely (eventually leading to variety of the ship of Theseus paradox). I suppose the question you are really asking is how long it takes until it breaks in such a way that it is no longer worthwhile to repair it. The average is about 4 years, but keep in mind that there is significant variation here.

Like all lithium ion batteries, your laptop's battery will deteriorate with every charge cycle so if you use it a lot, you will eventually need a new battery. Also, the price per GB of SSDs is dropping pretty rapidly so after a year or two, you will have less space than contemporary machines. Those two are relatively easy to upgrade -- everything else is quite a bit harder. On the time scale of a few years, there are typically new display technologies, new ports, better power efficiency and machines keep getting lighter and thinner (though the limit for the latter may have been reached).

I think if you intend to keep the machine for about 3 years, it is quite feasible. It is possible to go for 5 years (especially with an external GPU), but you will need either a bit of luck or a willingness to replace components such as the motherboard. Any longer than that and it's probably not worth it.

 

Don't take offense but let me be frank:

There is no such thing as future proof. Every 2-3 years, your device will be obsolete, regardless of the card (for gaming).

Look at people who purchased the Titan X saying, "Oh, it'll be future proof, that's why I'm buying it." And now the 1070 performs better than it does in some applications. Even those with eGPU setups are regretting purchasing them. eGPU's give you the illusion of future proofing.

Your best option is to buy what you can afford and only that. Don't stretch your budget or waste energy trying to get the "best" because you think it will be future proof because it won't. You are a fool if you believe otherwise.

Volta will destroy Pascal again in 2018. We expect another 100% increase in performance with HBM2.

 

dont take offense J dre..

but titan x outdated? lmao

it still runs games fine

 

It also depends on your definition of obsolete. My 870M is 2 years and change old and still cranks games out just fine.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

Thanks for the comments so far, everyone.

I guess it boils down to this: folks like me shopping for gaming laptops right now are doing so at the cusp of both eGPUs becoming widely available and a new generation of mobile GPUs launching. I'm trying to figure out if my future ability to play games smoothly (even on lower graphics settings) will (A) be several years longer if I buy a Pascal mobile GPU instead of a Maxwell, or (B) be several years longer if I buy a laptop + eGPU instead of buying a laptop that only sports a Pascal mobile GPU. If the answer to (B) is "yes," then I'll buy a laptop + eGPU. If the answer to (B) is "no" but (A) is "yes," then I'll wait for mobile Pascal GPU laptops to be released. If the answer is "no" to both, then I'll just buy something with a 970M now.

Right, when I said "unplayable" I was thinking more in terms of performance than in terms of graphical quality - I'm more concerned about being able to play new games smoothly than being able to play them at max settings. I assume(?) there's no real way to future proof a gaming laptop in terms of keeping graphics settings cranked to the max for many years.

Echoing hfm's above comment: when you say "obsolete regardless of the card", what do you mean? That in 2-3 years most new games won't be playable, or that 2-3 years is when you'll need to start dialing down graphics settings? Or something else?

 

At this point, it doesn't pay to get a gaming laptop with less than a 980m or even better the Mobile GTX 980. While these cards perform admirably, they are almost 2 years old. They should last you another 2 years for 1080p high or better settings. Depends on the game obviously. But there is no reason to get anything less than these as anything less than these will not last you as long performance wise.

As far as eGPU's, there are issues with them too due to throttling, not a big enough power supply etc. Not sure if they would be any more future proof at all. You could wait for mobile Pascal but no real info on their release as of yet, I don't think. The answer to your last question is that 2-3 years settings would have to be turned down. Since it seems you aren't too concerned with maxing everything out, a laptop with a 980m would do you good and should carry you few a couple years at minimum.

 

Just to throw my 2 cents in I went to a EGPU setup when one of my 980ms fried and and I didn't want to spend another 900-1000U$Ds to buy a new one. I don't know anything about throttling or cores blah, blah. All I know is I'm using a 970 desktop card and every game I throw at it works great at high or ultra (yeah me )-Doom (2016), FO4, Witcher 3, newest Tomb Raider, Skyrim ( it's my crack ). I don't really care about the finer things of gaming-over clocking, 3D Mark scores etc. All I want is to turn on my PC and the game runs smoothly with no stuttering. If I ever decide to swap out the 970 card I've already tried a Titan X, and 1080 reference card and both worked fine. I didn't start out wanting a EGPU setup but that's what I got and the way desktop cards are cheaper than mobile GPU it's what I'll be using for the foreseeable future.

 

Keep in mind that both of your questions concern technologies that are not released yet so take the answers with a grain of salt. I think that at this point, it is pretty clear that Pascal is a substantial improvement over Maxwell both in performance per dollar and performance per watt so if you are not desperate for a laptop right now and can wait for Pascal, then wait (i.e. the answer to A is yes).

Your second question is a lot harder because you are asking about technology that is not mainstream today and may never become mainstream. Current versions require tinkering and have various issues. It could be that this is the future of laptop gaming. It could be that it will remain a niche product and eventually die out. It could also be that this is the future of laptop gaming, but with a port that only becomes available 2 years from now. I honestly don't know. It's something to keep an eye on, but deciding to buy a laptop with the intention to use a eGPU later on is a gamble. Also, keep in mind that this solution involves a considerable amount of expense: at the very least you'll need to buy a desktop GPU and, unless you're a fan of tinkering, you'll probably need an enclosure. The only one I know of that is available today is the Razer Core which costs $500 (or $400 if you also buy the laptop from Razer). Combine that with the GPU cost and it's roughly equal to the price of a new mid-range laptop.

I would put it like this: if you enjoy making do-it-yourself solutions for things like this work, then an eGPU might be a good idea. If not, I would wait until it is more clear where this technology is going.

 

I'm referring to the technology.

 

The eGPU option aside . . .

To be as frank and realistic about this, a high-end mobile Maxwell will keep you running games -- even nicely for the most part -- up until the end of this console life cycle, and this includes the Neo and Scorpio, since both companies (MS and Sony) have made plenty of platitudes about leaving no one behind. As such, the lowest denominators on the consoles will provide enough leeway for even older high-end laptop GPUs to be enough for a decent gaming experience. As it stands, I've had no issues dealing with titles thus far and beating the console experience by a decent margin (higher settings, etc.), even using a single GPU in many cases. As such, a GTX 980M would serve as a solid performer for all such tasks, but now with other options right on the horizon, it might be less practical to settle for such an option when one could acquire better for the same investment amount*.

On the other hand, when it comes to tech and being on the absolute cutting-edge of what can be done with certain hardware, one will always be struggling to stay at the front, especially when it comes to laptops. This being a separate matter and one that is often quite futile and generally the staple of those who are into the hardware benchmark hobby.

* The pragmatic approach would be to go for something that will keep one satisfied with this console cycle of games without getting too caught up in the somewhat alluring task of staying at the absolute cutting edge. Having that said, mobile Pascal options are now around the corner, so there is no harm in waiting a bit and acquiring a stronger system with more GPU headroom for around the same price as the best mobile offering when it comes to Maxwell.

 

I agree with most everything above.

Considering that I can still max most everything with my 980m 8GB and often at over 1080p ...though I'm one that can tolerate 30fps and up so I think I have a decent performance cushion going into this somewhat odd console refresh. Backwards compatibility with the XB1/PS4 means the clock is reset on this console generation effect on PC requirements. Average CPU/GPU requirements may take another slight bump, but it is i3 and pre-CGN/400,500, low-600 series that's most at risk of falling short more often. Mobile i7/980m combo likely has a long way to go before it is pushed to medium settings ...which will then probably look as good or better than today's Ultra settings anyway.

Waiting a year for the 980m to launch was totally worth it, waiting a few months for a 1070/1080 is a no-brainer.

I would likely take a 1070 if the 1080 laptop version doesn't have GDDR5x. It will probably be better price : performance wise.

 

I heard laptops with 965m are very future proof

 

Yes, because they will rebrand them a half dozen more times.

 

Using common sense within the realm of Computers and electronics, you can never be satisfied with what you have at the present if you are always looking for something better tomorrow.
Technological advancements in electronics are always the norm, and have been since the 1960's.
What we have today is about a billion times more advanced than anything anyone could have dreamed 40 years ago, so just acknowledge that, and plan accordingly.
Since 4K and 5K tvs are now here, it makes accepting what you play on your Laptop display or 1080 TV outdated and difficult.
Just take the pragmatic approach to this, and get what you can afford and be happy with it, because like chasing Rainbows, you will never to achieve what you want by chasing after something that cannot be caught in front of you.

 

965m=880m

965m will play medium for 4 years thats future proof enough for me

 

Spoken like a wise Yoda master.

 

I'd say its close to 4 or 5 years to be obsolete. My GT80 is a year and a half old. almost 2 years. It is nowhere near obsolete haha. My old GX660R is like 6 years old now, it struggles to play games so now everything is on low settings, at low res. That is obsolete.

My GT60 with 780m still can play everything, but surely no longer at max settings but still play every game out there. It's what, close to be 3 years old?

That being said, eGPUs are nowhere near widespread at all, it is new tech that is still rather untested. We will see much more devices and support in the coming years. In the end the idea is to get the best you can afford and roll with it. Deliberately getting the absolute best is just wasting money too.

 

When I said obsolete, I meant the technology is old and no longer being produced, so it loses value. Wasn't referring to the performance.

 

For me I'm craving 1080p 60fps with maximum settings and the 980M isn't quite there. I hope 1080M can finally bring mobile to that level of performance

 

obsolete cant refer to something like not being produced.. in its capacity to do work in this case play games

 

The very definition of "obsolete" is out of date; no longer being produced, lol. It's people who skew the meaning by jumping to conclusions.

 

used with proper english

synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion

 

1.
no longer in general use; fallen into disuse:
an obsolete expression.
2.
of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date:
an obsolete battleship.
3.
(of a linguistic form) no longer in use, especially, out of use for at leastthe past century.
Compare archaic.
4.
effaced by wearing down or away.
5.
Biology.

 

99.999999 percent of all dictionaries claim it means simply not being used....production is only found in googles dictionary which is clearly obsolete

 

The only future proof laptop is the one you can upgrade with future tech.

 

Not being used by manufacturers or NVIDIA clearly means that it is no longer being produced. Sigh.

Seems 99.999999% of the people on this forum have to argue every little detail. I'm not going to waste my energy on this.

 

it would mean 1 out of a million. I don't think NBR has that many active members .

 

In my experience, future proofing doesnt exist.

 

On an AMD board, you could go from Phenom I / Phenom II / Bulldozer / Vishera

 

He didn't say it was outdated - nowhere in his post does it say that. Don't go around putting words in people's mouths (or in our case, text in people's posts).

He said the GTX 1070 (which retails for what, half of what the Titan X does?) performs as well, sometimes even better. You have people who, only a few months ago, paid a ton of money for a Titan X. Today, you can get equal/better performance for a lot less.

 

It looks that only p775DM and P870DM and MSI GT72S will be because Pascal MXM will be probably similar to 980 deskop-mobile layout.

 

And only the P870 will get the actual real full card.

 

If semantics were a vital energy resource, global super powers would be fighting over ownership of this thread. ; )

 

Sorry, this thread is mine, I get all those vital energy forces

Though seriously, thanks to everyone for offering their suggestions and perspectives on the topic, it's been quite helpful. I've decided to hold out for a Pascal laptop, and/or perhaps one with an eGPU connection, but that's getting less and less likely because it seems that's not necessarily a bullet-proof way to future-proof

 

wouldnt a egpu setup last 7 to 8 years

 

Not if the system has a mobile CPU, no.

 

Ehh, I'd say it depends on the game. Games are a lot less CPU dependent than one would think, and mobile CPUs are a lot better these days than they used to be even 5 or 10 years ago.

 

I'd expect the eGPU case to last at least that long & hopfully out live the system I'd expect over that period of time it to of housed 2-3 different GPU's & possibly changed laptop once around 7 year mark

 

egpu can last long but the cpu and ram will eventually be bottlenecks for the newer gpus, especially if you're looking to use the new Titan X. Ram does help a bit in some situations.
http://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html

 

Kind of mirrors what others are saying, but future proofing is kind of non-existent. Get the best of what you can afford and that's all you can do. You may not be able to play games 3-4 years from now on max settings, but you'll still get decent fps at medium.

 

My laptop for sure is Future Proof but not for next generation consoles. At best, it may play 1080p 30fps on mid to low settings.

I do plan to make it my office desktop laptop anyway so no worries.

 

Future proofing depend on:
1. When a new console generations comes out, how much more powerful it is than the older one and how much game developers will push it.
2. How long has it been since the gpu was released and when the next one will be coming out, not how long ago did you buy it.
3. Whether you bought the x60, x70 or x80 GPU of the generation

For example, the 970m and 980m were very good gpus (yes they WERE good GPUs the day pascal mobile was announced) but with the new consoles coming in 2017 and the capabilities of the 10 series Nvidia GPUs (and Volta coming out in 2017 with HBM2), I don't think they will last very long (not more than 2018). And by this i mean that games coming out after that period will have to be played with low to medium settings at 30fps at 1080p (who are we kidding, 720p is so outdated these days and if the resolution had to be dropped that low, then the card should be put to bed and thats where my Alienware M14x has been for the last 3 years).

 

On another note, anyone know when the pascal Alienware will be coming out and also when Intel will be releasing Kaby Lake?

 

Pascal's great and all, but the new consoles aren't necessarily going to be radical overhauls in the manner that some might think. There's already a massive install base for their earlier and weaker iterations, and since this isn't a console generation leap (the older hardware has to be accommodated) I wouldn't worry too much about those standards being radically redefined, and even if they were, the PS4 Neo and Xbox/Scorpio aren't as massive a leap upward as a high-end Pascal card. Hell, if driver woes could be managed, even high-end Kepler cards will endure for a good while into the future (also generally matching and exceeding the original PS4 and Xbox One/One S for their lifespan) with the Maxwell versions always pulling out much further without having to compromise in standards by a significant margin.

 

The 980m/970m are still good GPUs. The "console effect" last the whole generation for the most part. Gaming capability continues to trickle down further and further as time goes by. Last console generation had the 730m running Crysis 2 well at 768p. I agree that 1080p is the new 720p, but I don't see where that means rough going for GPUs well ahead of what the PS4/XB1 have at 1080p.

 

Adding to this, I had Crysis 2 running better than the consoles -- higher settings, resolution, and frame rate (uncontested across the board) -- on an intentionally underclocked 280M to closely match the overall output of the consoles, even though it still edged out by a decent margin. As far as competing against the consoles was concerned, my M17X R1 with the 280M SLi (often used in single GPU mode) lasted all the way into 2013 (and beat the last generation consoles' visual fidelity experience, hands down) with upgrades only becoming a necessity as PC ports of certain games became DX11 exclusive.