GPU overclock so few MHz?

why do we overclock the GPU up so few MHz? Compared with CPU oc, 25, 50 MHz is nothing. Is there really a speed boost with such little OC?

 

why not? it's free!

 

Because a GPU is much more parallel than a CPU. So a smaller speed boost has much larger overall effect. You also have to look at it as a percentage game... a GPU running a 500MHz overclocked by 50MHz means it's a 10% overclock. To get a 2.5GHz CPU the same 10%, you'd have to get it up to 2.75GHz, or 250MHz. That's pretty non-trivial.

And then you get into GPU's being bandwidth limited... you'll often get more performance from overclocking the memory instead of the core... I get a very big boost in performance when overclocking my graphics RAM from 800MHz to 1GHz, more than I get from any core speed boosts.

 

Just be careful about the memory since the temperatures aren't typically measured, so you can easily damage your GPU memory by OCing it too much.

 

Says the man with the highest memory clocks for a 9500M GS DDR2 that I know.
It doesn't hurt to try incremental overclocking to see how well your system responds, how stable it is, and how well it impacts your gaming performance (it certainly helps for benchmark-geeks like me).

 

thanks for the explanation Pitabred. That brings to mind another question, why are graphic cores and memory clocked so slow?

sgogeta4 & tehsuigi: GPU-Z can read my GPU memory temps, and its pretty nice idling at 58 C.

ADDITIONAL: oh and since you brought up memory overclocking, does OCing the memory give out less heat than OCing the core? With just 10MHz core OC, idle temps rise by 1 C.

 

Why? Because they're mobile parts! There's a limit to the power draw and heat dissipation, so the cores and memory modules need to be appropriately restrained to keep within a certain thermal envelope.

Not sure - GPU-Z doesn't track my memory temperatures. That's older tech for ya!

 

The iddling is not bad, how much does it increase when gaming? You can get the AtiTool and run the Artifact routine, it will stress your GPU to the max. YOu can use it too to calibrate for stability when you overclock.

 

when in Crysis, hits max of 80. Can't seem to push it any higher But im not about to stress this baby to the max, because its gonna have to last at least 4 years. don't want to burn it so soon

 

I'd say that's about the limit and I think its not a bad temp. Let us know when you overclock how much higher the temps go.

 

OCed my 5870 from 700mhz to 800mhz core, 1000mhz to 1100mhz memory, temp on furmark rose from 82C to 85C. Didn't attempt further though, actually I'm reluctant to even run it at OC during normal usage even though it's only a 3C increase in temp. Not much point really when it can already run all games at max on smooth frame rate, therefore, the cooler the better. It did yield 4 FPS on furmark though from 16FPS to 20FPS.

 

ATI Tool Artifact
at my current OC (685/870): 78 C max
at higher OC (700/900) : 84 C max. Furmark pushes it to 86 C.

EDIT: spotted artifacts in CABAL SEA Online at 700/900 ...dropped to current OC.

 

Yeah umm... if GPU's were/could be clocked as high as CPU's, can you even begin to imagine how much heat would be put out? First of all, GPU's are really just specialized, high performance processors, and they put out almost as much heat as CPU's as they are now... and we haven't even reached core clocks of 1GHz... can you imagine 2.4GHz core clocks in a NOTEBOOK?!! Holy moley, i could turn my notebook into a Grillbox 360...

I wouldn't call 58C a nice mellow idle temp, should be able to go much lower than that.

 

actually, a small correction, we have reached 1000mhz cores, just not on stock cards, some AIBs are producing 1000mhz core 5870s. oddly enough they still run cooler than a stock GF100 card.

 

@@ thinkpad does know best thanks for the information.

well 58 C is pretty mild, considering that firstly, its a SXPS 16 (weird heat vent design) and secondly, ambient temps are minimum of 27, maximum of 34 C, average 33 C O.O

 

well my GPU is quite heavily OCed.. core went up by 150MHz and shaders by 300%... 25% OC on each...so GPu overclocks isn't few MHz if u got good cooling and nice laptop... at least for some of us , we can OC something.. CPU ocing is usally locked...

 

Was that sarcastic (assumes it is)? Sorry to seem arrogant in my posts man, i just thought 58C isn't such a cool idle temp for me, but those ambient temps are really good.

 

A MR 5870 had been OCed to more than 1ghz core clock, actually 900mhz on a sager's 5870 is easily done.

Still could remember the days where GPU don't even have a fan attached.

 

wow sean..you pushed your GPU clocks pretty insanely so. I can't hit anything over 80MHz without crashing.

thinkpad: no no...not sarcastic at all!! sorry to have sounded sarcastic (or at least you assumed so)

thats a 5870..and on a sager, with large volume of space for cooling. Try OCing to such levels on a chassis thats less than an inch thick... BURRRN..anyway i couldn't go higher than 710 core, 890 memory or it crashes (yikes, my baby >< )

 

I'm getting a W700 with the FX 2700M (9700M GTS), wished i could get a W700 with the FX 3700M (9800 GTX) but it should be still pretty capable big machine, especially since i'll buy a Q9000 to replace the P8700, 250 CAN on eBay.

 

hmm, just curious, how much does a FX 3700M cost over a 2700M? The Quadro FX 3700M =/= 9800M GTX, it has more shaders (128>112) and higher clocks and should be quite a bit ahead of 9800M GTX. The 3700M should be much more capable than the 2700M.

If the upgrade cost isn't significant, the GPU upgrade from FX 2700M to FX 3700M will net you much better performance than the CPU upgrade, that's assuming if gaming is your thing of course.

The performance different between P8700 and Q2000 shouldn't be that much, there is a guy on forum who did many benchmarks comparing the two processors(p8700 vs q2000), just do a little search and you will find it.

 

WOW Pitabred you were right! I ran 3dmark Vantage, and certainly..amazing...memory clocks give much better boosts. At least in benchmarking.

These scores are (Core/Memory) : Total/GPU/CPU
Stock (675/800) : 3172/2660/7503
Core OC (690/800) : 3245/2730/7480
Memory OC, Core Underclock (660/875) : 3279/2755/7623

Notebookcheck Vantage scores for the SXPS 16 were only 2947 lol.

 

Slow? Not at all. The mobile HD5870 has 800 cores running at 700 mhz. More cores the slower it is. The i7 720QM is 2.8 Ghz on 1 core, with 4 cores it's 1.73 ghz. Now if you add 796 more, how fast do you think the i7 would be? Would it be 700 mhz like it is for the Mobile HD5870? It's not a direct correlation as the i7 is x86 and HD5870 is not and they are made for two different purposes. But you can see that 700 mhz core for HD5870 is not slow at all, that's blazingly fast.

Same for G73 and suspect for any HD5870 equipped notebook with dual fan cooling

Here is my Vantage. I use no notebook cooler. This is with stock GPU thermal grease with 800/1100 overclock. Raising core clock from 700-800 will raise HD5870's Vantage score by almost 1,000
- For those curious, the performance between a G73 and a Clevo W870CU with i7 720QM and HD5870 with stock settings or 800/1100 overclock are IDENTICAL. And the temperatures are right on par also.
- The misconception that the Clevo would be much better is wrong.
- So whenever someone says to someone considering an Asus G73, get a Clevo instead, ignore them. There are reasons for getting the Clevo instead, but performance and cooling are not among them.
- Clevo has e-SATA and DVI ports which are important for many people. If you need that with a performance laptop like this, then the Clevo is the ONLY option.
- I've played Crysis for 4 hours straight with 800/1100 overclock and only got about 79C on the core.

 

Ah I see lots of wonderful useful information here! thanks

and lol...i would embarrassed to post the screenshot of my Vantage points...thats why its just in plain text

 

I'm using Chaos6 Particle Mod and Real Lifesis Mod for Crysis. By far the worst benchmark I've seen, the last time I did it had average of 34 but using different drivers and those mods. I will do a clean install of Crysis to see if that's what it was or if it's the drivers.

Here are game temperatures for overclock 800/1100. TSS 0 is the core. 78.5C is very decent if you ask me for an 800/1100 overclock. So don't think cooling is the reason to get a Clevo, they have there differences and great reasons to buy, cooling is not one of them. If you want to do 900 core overclock, you have to do some cooling modifications, like using it outside in middle of winter, modding the heatsink, opening up the caseback and have a A/C unit blow into it or using a very good notebook cooler.

I know the dude who has the current highest overclock on the HD5870 froze his Clevo to do it. Yes he put in the freezer before benching it.

 

my max GPU temp on furmark extreme burning on 800/1100 is 85C, please show that G73 could be on par. Gaming temp stabilize at around 71C.

Edit: Oh, and not just core temp, mem temp is at 85C in furmark as well. My ambient temp is 32-35C, not exactly the coolest place on earth.

 

Like to take a guess of how quiet the G73 is at idle since the fan is barely on?

Ambient temp of 56C is not going to damage or reduce the life of the GPU. It's the load temperatures that matter.

And fact of the matter is, your 85C vs my 88C memory temps cannot even be proven.
- THERE ARE NO TEMPERATURE SENSORS ON MEMORY.
- So don't even try to argue that point, you can't prove it.

As I said, between Clevo and G73, cooling is not the selling point. But the fact Clevo comes with more port options and upgradable, as the Clevo uses the standard MXM III are excellent and worthy/justifiable selling points for spending the extra $900. Don't get angry that another notebook has excellent cooling also. I am by no means bashing the Clevo as there are clear advantages to having one over the G73. You can upgrade your machine in a few years, in a few years I'll be buying a new machine, but that was my plan to begin with.

 

Ambient temp means the room temp, not idle temp.

There is a memIO temp though, the memory controller.

Then again, even if we don't talk about memory temp, just the core temp, could G73 run furmark extreme burning at 800/1100 at 85C? Not crysis benchmark, but furmark extreme burning stress test.

 

Very weird test if you ask me. The GPU temperature Furmark gives is completely wrong. Also MemIO is the Memory Controller, that is NOT the VRam. Very huge misconception and the temperature of the MemIO to be 15C above Core Temps is NORMAL on even dekstops. HD4870 desktop around 94C for MemIO is considered normal and safe. Mobile variants have higher temperature tolerances. 102C is within range for Core temps on the Mobile GTX260 for example, but for desktop, pretty sure that would be frying time.

Oh and the fan didn't go on full. Don't ask me why, but Asus has set the fan it seems to go on full when the Core temp is much higher. I've only heard the fan on full once, that was when I tried to play Borderlands with 800/1100 overclock @ 1080p with all settings high and all settings on. That was not pretty, massive slowdown abut 1.5 hours in, I immediately turned some options off and reduced back to stock clocks

I seem to have issues with Borderlands. I know Vicious runs Borderlands with everything maxed in Borderlands with no issues while I do. So don't take my problems with G73 as a G73 problem. Seems kinda local to me only... which sucks since I like Borderlands.

 

not 3D mark vantage, it's furmark extreme burning.

 

10 minutes of your extreme burning stability test. No notebook cooler used. This would be 2nd time I've heard fans go on full, and hopefully last.
It seems Asus has set the limit on fans around 82C, as I have gamed with 81C before with fans on moderate, switching between medium and low speeds.
Knowing this, if someone ever manages to control fan speed on G73 HD5870, then I would suggest using that tweak it if someone wants lower temperatures.

So I hope for all who may read this, I have never claimed that G73 cooling was better than a Clevo, but that it was not a reason to buy a Clevo over G73
- Clevo heatsink is clearly a little better than G73 as I've posted MANY times before in other threads.
- G73 uses pure copper heatsink for the Core and the heat pipes, but the overall large piece over the memory modules are aluminum with copper heat pipes.
- Clevo is all copper
- As I have shown you, Asus fan management is different than Clevo as fan does not go on full until well into 82-83C.
- If you want better cooling, there are like Alienware or Clevo, but you suffer with fan noise.
- 78C gaming temperatures in games like Borderlands, Crysis, BC2 is not a reason why you would buy a Clevo instead. Fan noise with these temps are minimal. See the difference in my argument?

The fans did not go on full until about 4 minutes in. Then the temps held steady for the rest of the time.

FurMark Screenshot


The actual real temperatures

 

OK, ran for 10min as well under 1920x1080 resolution, stabilized and fluctuates between 93C to 93.5C, current ambient temperature here is 33C. Fan not working at max as well, since Sager's fan profile only turns to 100% at 100C, but I guess it will never reach that. I would have to say that's still quite alot of cooling advantage for clevo though.

Moreover, just look at the fan speed control in clevo's bios, at 93C, the fan only jacks up to 69%, 95C 80%, 69% of the fan speed is already enough to cool down an OCed furmark, just imagine what happens if I made it run at 100%.

 

Have to say it's not because having the G73 temps remaining well below worrying point is not a reason why to buy a Clevo.
- This is like saying buying a Nissan Skyline R35 having higher top speeds than a Hyundai Genesis Coupe is an advantage when you never ever will drive at those speeds.
- I think you are missing the point, this is not a contest about which cooling system is better
- Cooling is not an issue for the G73 or a reason why one should buy a Clevo.

The point when you say Clevo is the reason to buy over G73 for cooling is when G73 temperatures are unsafe.

 

Never said that G73 cooling is unsafe, it's very safe IMO compared to most laptops out there, but having lower temp is always more comfortable, and gives a bigger temperature headroom for OCing as well.

 

Lets end this derailment of the thread as it seems we now agree.

 

lol i don't know... it seems Dell has restricted OCing in their laptops etc.. anyways , nothing to be embarrased about.. my score is P1600 only...

 

@Ziddy, don't mean to add on to the OOT, but noticed that you edited your post and I just want to point out a misconception, there's nothing wrong with furmark's given temperature, for AMD GPU clock tool, TSS 1 is the GPU thermal diode AKA core temp, not TSS 0.

 

As in my case, GT330M (vostro 3700) i managed to overclocked core/mem from 575/790 -> 740/850

 

Sorry to say it's been proven TSS0 is the core, TSS1 is the MemIO. Proven by Clevo owners also. Not only that Furmark doesn't seem to be reading either of them but the thermal diode temps. So it's absolutely COMPLETELY wrong.

But I am not arguing with you anymore. This has turned from friendly argument to being trolled and I'm not going to participate. I have proven to those who may read this unbiased and recognize what I have proven. For fanboys, I don't care, as I cannot convince them, as they would not be fanboys otherwise. Telling people you have more headroom for benchmarking is not an advantage as even Clevo owners will not recommend anyone gaming with GPU overclocked beyond 800/1100 for gaming which is the same recommendation for the G73. Benchmarking is nice for the G73 to know what the cooling system is capable of and that is it. Benchmarking on Laptops is really dumb hobby IMO, as any desktop counterpart will crush it easily for less money.

 

Sorry, my bad, thought that thermal diode is the core, thanks for telling me dispIO is core, good to know that the core temp is actually even lower than I thought.