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    GT650M DDR3 vs GDDR5 difference tested!

    Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Supranium, May 12, 2012.

  1. jaug1337

    jaug1337 de_dust2

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    There's no trouble overclocking, just throttling that's all... you can still OC all you like
     
    jaug1337, May 23, 2012
    #51
  2. OC-Freak

    OC-Freak Notebook Deity

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    GT650M with GDDR5 has core speed of 735MHz/745MHz with turbo boost up to 835MHz.
    GT650M with DDR3 has core speed of 835MHz with turbo boost up to 950MHz.

    This is "default by nvidia" laptop makers can choose lower (not higher) clocks if they want.

    That is why they perform about the same with both types of memory, the DDR3 version simply runs at higher core speeds to compensate for the slower memory.

    And overclocking should work if you have 3xx drivers. But depending on heat, power usage and how demanding the load is turbo might not kick in, making overclocking pointless in some situations.
     
    OC-Freak, May 23, 2012
    #52
  3. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Except the GDDR5 version is constantly ahead showing how bandwidth starved the DDR3 version is.
     
    Meaker@Sager, May 23, 2012
    #53
  4. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    Lancer91, May 23, 2012
    #54
  5. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    So i got my clevo W170ER and the GT 650M GDDR5 always runs at turbo speed 835 mhz. The thing is that Clevo deactivated cpu turbo when running on the GT 650M...My Core i7 2720qm ES is running at 2,2 ghz instead of 2,5 ghz on my Vostro 3750, and thus affecting benchmarks.

    Can't extract the GT 650M bios with gpu-z. Seems locked. It annoys me.
    I can OC with msi afterburner though.
     
    Kallogan, May 23, 2012
    #55
  6. Meaker@Sager

    Meaker@Sager Company Representative

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    Vbios is integrated into the system bios as the chip is soldered on. You would have to unpack it, find the right file, modify it and repackage it.
     
    Meaker@Sager, May 23, 2012
    #56
  7. gewinnste

    gewinnste Notebook Enthusiast

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    Why does everybody want to flash the Bios?
    Just use MSI Afterburner! You can change ALL values, incl. voltage!
    You can thus make a GT650m into a GTX660m, there's no difference!
    And pleeeease note that 1 GB GDDR5 is way better than 2 GB DDR3!
    And 2 GB GDDR5 ist best, of course ...
     
    gewinnste, May 23, 2012
    #57
  8. Baenwort

    Baenwort Notebook Evangelist

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    Give it a try and you'll see that MSI Afterburner does not support all those features with this chip.
     
    Baenwort, May 23, 2012
    #58
  9. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Yeah msi afterburner does not give access to voltages.

    Can't overclock either. The 650M GT max out at 835 mhz whatever clocks i put. Bios limitation i guess...

    bah soldered chip...i miss my mxm 9600M GT. Was so easy to flash.

    Bad days for overclockers and voltage tweakers.
     
    Kallogan, May 23, 2012
    #59
  10. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Not by much apparently.

    I looked at the Acer V3 771G and schenker 11,6" reviews that both have 650M GT 2GB DDR3 on board and they perform just like the GDDR5 ones when you look at the games tables on notebookcheck. I can't see a difference.
     
    Kallogan, May 23, 2012
    #60
  11. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    MSI works for overclocking on the m14xR2. Not the voltage though, according to the other guys.
     
    Lancer91, May 23, 2012
    #61
  12. neon10th

    neon10th Notebook Consultant

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    Even though you can only OC to 835mhz, does it still turbo to 950mhz?
     
    neon10th, May 23, 2012
    #62
  13. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    The link on the first post is completely irrelevant they compare a system with a core i3 with another with a core i7...

    On notebookcheck u can find notebooks with ddr3 and gddr5 which have both core i7 on board and results are exactly the same in battlefield 3 and many other games. the GT 650M ddr3 version seems to have higher clocks to compensate so...

    I have the GDDR5 version and the stock turbo is already 835 mhz. When OCing, gpu-z then indicates the turbo at 950 mhz for example but in fact it always runs at 835 mhz when i looked at the sensors tab while stressing the gpu.
     
    Kallogan, May 23, 2012
    #63
  14. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    higher frame rates when you apply overclocks do not indicate lower or throttled gpu. Only in reference to the m14x, not the clevo
     
    Lancer91, May 23, 2012
    #64
  15. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    notebookcheck is just that, notebook check and not a good source.
     
    Lancer91, May 23, 2012
    #65
  16. Snufdtherooster

    Snufdtherooster Notebook Enthusiast

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    If you are concerned with overclocking, and application based overclocking:
    1:download nvidia system tools
    2:find the profile in the program directory
    3: open the .nsu with notepad
    4: scroll down to "GPUSettings"
    5:TWEAK

    mine looks as follows:

    [GPUSettings]
    GPUCOUNT=1
    GPUNAME0=GeForce GT 650M
    GPUNAMEINDEX0=0
    GPUCOREMHZ0=405
    GPUMEMMHZ0=2700
    GPUCOREMHZMIN0=835
    GPUMEMMHZMIN0=800
    GPUCOREMHZMAX0=835
    GPUMEMMHZMAX0=2700
    GPUSHADERMHZ0=1670
    GPUSHADERMHZMIN0=835
    GPUSHADERMHZMAX0=1670
    GPUFANSUPPORT0=0
    GPUFANMODE0=-1
    GPUFAN3D0=-1
    GPUFAN3DMIN0=0
    GPUFAN3DMAX0=0

    Note:

    835 on the core seems to be the limit, as of this method.
    Ram speed can be overclocked much further.

    You can also change settings for fan speed access (I've confirmed), and and seemingly voltage (I've not confirmed)
     
    Snufdtherooster, May 23, 2012
    #66
  17. OC-Freak

    OC-Freak Notebook Deity

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    That is because in games the DDR3 version runs at 950MHz, while the GDDR5 version runs at 835MHz, making performance quite similar.
     
    OC-Freak, May 23, 2012
    #67
  18. gewinnste

    gewinnste Notebook Enthusiast

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    Uhm, exactly: 835 MHz
    Per stock the GT650M has 735 MHz core speed and you can OC it to 835 MHz.
    Which is exactly the speed of the GTX660M!
    (Not sure why you can't change the voltage in MSI Afterburner for this GPU but it should not be necessary anyways.)
    --> Tadaahh, you have a GTX660M for cheap!
    I wouldn't OC it further anyways since you have gone up in TDP from 45 W to ca. 50 W and without modding the cooling, not a good idea.
     
    gewinnste, May 23, 2012
    #68
  19. OC-Freak

    OC-Freak Notebook Deity

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    Make sure you have nvida 3xx driver, with 2xx driver core clocking is not working in afterburner, only memory clocking.

    But then again I don't know your PC, could be locked for all I know - but worked fine on my samsung. Afterburner maxed out at +135MHz though, can't move slider further. This gave max turbo boost of 970MHz.
     
    OC-Freak, May 23, 2012
    #69
  20. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    haha thats kinda LOL-worthy. Why pay extra bucks for 660M when you can just say "screw you MHz-limit" and give Nvidia the middle finger.
    They are exactly the same GPU. So funny :p
     
    Cloudfire, May 23, 2012
    #70
  21. OC-Freak

    OC-Freak Notebook Deity

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    If I'm right the whole current kepler line is the same chip, just with different clockspeeds. GT640M LE (500MHz) GT640M (625MHz) GT650M (735MHz GDDR5/835MHz DDR3) GTX660M (835MHz)
     
    OC-Freak, May 23, 2012
    #71
  22. neon10th

    neon10th Notebook Consultant

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    Correct, except the GT640M LE is apparently still based on an old lower-end fermi chip.
     
    neon10th, May 23, 2012
    #72
  23. eats7

    eats7 Notebook Evangelist

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    so is there any possible way to OC past this 835 mhz limit??
     
    eats7, May 25, 2012
    #73
  24. Baenwort

    Baenwort Notebook Evangelist

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    On my Clevo once I modify the INF on the 301.42 drivers to let me install it I can use MSI Afterburner to increase the limit beyond 950 for the turbo. I've gone as far as 1Ghz with a successful 1 hour run of OCCT:GPU SL8.

    I went back to the stock drivers as I didn't like the problems I had with the idle power draw staying high, the 301.42 and 302.59 drivers don't seem to have full support for the Kepler chips yet. The Adaptive Vsync was cool and lowered the power usage when gaming on the battery but the idle power draw was ~5W higher then the stock drivers and MSI Afterburner showed that the core mhz did not drop to 135mhz as before but only to 835mhz(840 when OCing) at idle.

    Stock 295.93 drivers:

    Stock Mhz
    [​IMG]
    Plus 150Mhz vRam
    [​IMG]
    301.42 Drivers

    Stock speeds
    [​IMG]
    Plus 150Mhz vRam, Plus 50Mhz Core
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Baenwort, May 25, 2012
    #74
  25. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    You pushed the core at 1 ghz on stock voltage :eek:

    Damn there's a huge voltage margin i so would like to undervolt my GT 650M to make my lap cooler and quieter since i don't plan to overclock. I'm sure the 45W tdp would fall to 35W without any problem. Shame it hasn't a dedicated vBios since it's soldered.
     
    Kallogan, May 25, 2012
    #75
  26. Baenwort

    Baenwort Notebook Evangelist

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    Its only 50Mhz higher then the stock Tubo boosted core speed. The 650M seems quite happy to run at full boost for as long as you want it to. Its actually why I really want Adaptive Vsync. I'm happy enough at 60 fps and I'd like the dGPU to not be running(and draining my battery) at 950Mhz if it isn't really needed.
     
    Baenwort, May 25, 2012
    #76
  27. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    With my old 9600M GT i did lost 10-15°C by undervolting it and was still able to overclock it by 20% completely stable (500 mhz to 600mhz on core)

    They always put too much juice in these gpus. I hate useless heat and noise. We could have so much quieter notebooks...

    Cpus are the same story we can't undervolt them since core 2 duo.
     
    Kallogan, May 25, 2012
    #77
  28. Baenwort

    Baenwort Notebook Evangelist

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    That is very true. I'm hoping that since Prema actually owns a w110er/ng6110 that we might get some very good BIOS support and that he might get into the vBIOS once he's got the main BIOS figured out.
     
    Baenwort, May 25, 2012
    #78
  29. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    That would be cool

    Gpu-z indicates a whole set of voltage states 0,812 V at idle, 0,925 V at intermediate speed, 0,975V-1V on 3D mode and 1,025V for turbo...

    I undervolted lots of gpu mobile and desktop and i'm pretty sure that the GT 650M would turbo on 0,925V without any issue.
     
    Kallogan, May 25, 2012
    #79
  30. neon10th

    neon10th Notebook Consultant

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    Do you guys think Prema will be able to make a similar bios for the GDDR5 version despite him having a DDR3 GT650m?
     
    neon10th, May 25, 2012
    #80
  31. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    If you're willing to beta test. I've been testing the current BIOS for the W110ER because he doesn't have one. It's slow going because he has to wait for me to test, we're like 6 hours time difference, etc. Once he gets his machine I'm sure it will be done in no time flat.
     
    HTWingNut, May 25, 2012
    #81
  32. jaug1337

    jaug1337 de_dust2

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    So AnandTech just released this insanely big Diablo III benchmark where the W110ER beats all charts with it's GT650M DDR3 ;) enjoy
     
    jaug1337, May 27, 2012
    #82
  33. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Enjoy what? Where is the link? :p
     
    Cloudfire, May 27, 2012
    #83
  34. R3d

    R3d Notebook Virtuoso

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    R3d, May 27, 2012
    #84
  35. nissangtr786

    nissangtr786 Notebook Deity

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    lol I was reading that and it just concludes wwhat I said many times gt 650m is more then enough for 1080p gaming and with a couple of stuff turned off you should get 60 fps.
     
    nissangtr786, May 27, 2012
    #85
  36. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Allright I reped you r3d. And you too jhaug (for nothing) :p
     
    Cloudfire, May 27, 2012
    #86
  37. nissangtr786

    nissangtr786 Notebook Deity

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    cloudfire, can you spread the buy kepler campaign or amd gcn 28nm gpu's. I don't want people to get a 670m or 675m as then next gen nvidia will do the same, bring crap rebrands.

    htwingnut + rep you for your review for the sager. Power consumption for gaming test is what I wanted to know. My laptop takes 70w so the sager is awesome.
     
    nissangtr786, May 27, 2012
    #87
  38. jaug1337

    jaug1337 de_dust2

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    Oh. thanks!!

    I'm an retard... so tired man sorry Cloudfire :SLEEP:

    edit: LOL just noticed you wrote you repped me, oh well ty I guess R3d did all the hard work :D
     
    jaug1337, May 27, 2012
    #88
  39. Cloudfire

    Cloudfire (Really odd person)

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    Nah I think just about everyone in this forum knows that 7970M is here and is kicking *ss, and that 680M is pretty near.
    I know some people who bought notebook with 675M and plan on upgrading to 7970M once the Enduro problems and the failure is wiped away or 680M when its here. Can`t really tell people what to do with their own money :)
     
    Cloudfire, May 27, 2012
    #89
  40. nissangtr786

    nissangtr786 Notebook Deity

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    cloudfire kk i advise them. Anything but a 670m or 675m and is kepler or gcn is good enough.
     
    nissangtr786, May 27, 2012
    #90
  41. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    I'm hoping to get a Samsung with a 650M 2GB DDR3 inside *touch wood*

    So from your benchmarks how good is this card at a res of 1366x768? Would I be able to crank up the graphics settings?

    I guess it'll be a good deal better than my sig laptop's 5650.
     
    Cakefish, May 28, 2012
    #91
  42. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Kallogan, May 28, 2012
    #92
  43. dado023

    dado023 Notebook Enthusiast

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    hiya; my first post here :D

    did anyone try Nibitor with this GPU 650m, because version 6.06 of nibitor supports 650m?

    regards
    Dan
     
    dado023, May 28, 2012
    #93
  44. Cakefish

    Cakefish ¯\_(?)_/¯

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    What's the desktop equivalent of the DDR3 650M in terms of performance?
     
    Cakefish, May 29, 2012
    #94
  45. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    Lancer91, May 29, 2012
    #95
  46. Kallogan

    Kallogan Notebook Deity

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    Can't extract the vBios with gpu-z since the 650m GT is soldered. Vbios is part of the global bios, making nibitor useless for the moment. I'm not able to edit a motherboard bios, way too complicated for my moderate skills. Don't know what to do with my clevo bios file W150.bin :(
     
    Kallogan, May 30, 2012
    #96
  47. dado023

    dado023 Notebook Enthusiast

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    ok, i got my new machine with 650m, and downloaded 3xx.xx drivers from nvidia.com, BUT it doesn't recognize my geforce.....it seems it isn't supported..., crazy
    Is this possible?
     
    dado023, May 30, 2012
    #97
  48. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    @dado - see the alienware m14x forums with the new driver. Instructions inside.
     
    Lancer91, May 30, 2012
    #98
  49. dado023

    dado023 Notebook Enthusiast

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    @Lancer
    thanks....i have read the thread, and it seems new drivers isnt that good for 650m....for example Diablo 3 has reduced performance......can anyone confirm this?
     
    dado023, May 30, 2012
    #99
  50. Lancer91

    Lancer91 Notebook Consultant

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    my response.. its a small decrease for diablo3 and other games are either net zero or large gains like batman arkham city. Download it and try it. Bench a few games on the old driver, save the figures in notepad or something, then download and try the new. Share results to compare with others. It helps everyone in the community. Good Luck!
     
    Lancer91, May 30, 2012
    #100
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