GTX 285M vs. ATI 5870 mobile

Which one is more powerful?

 

The 5870 is just a tad more powerful. It pretty much goes like this: 5870>GTX 285M>4870>GTX 280M.

 

GPU Comparison thread

Look at post 4655 in particular. Next time read the stickies though

 

I swear I saw this exact thread like two weeks ago. Complete with Shadow's GPU hierarchy and Melody's link.

 

Lol, I think I remember that. Didn't it get broken though, and got put in the big chart?

 

The benchmarks HD5870 is clearly much much better. It's not a tad, it's huge.

In game performance, that's different. HD5870 still better because it is a much better GPU, but due to optimizations for Nvidia, the GTX285 still holds up very well.

So it all depends.

 

remember you can get 285 in sli...


u cant get the 5870 in xfire...anywhere...

 

in general, you can make statements about performance in games and in benchmarks. this is testable, repeatable, so it isn't so hard to just take it on faith and expect someone else to cry foul if it isn't true. so sure, the 5870 benches better than the 285m but in game performance is closer.

claims of "why" are a lot harder to swallow. do you have inside information? are you an Nvidia or ATI engineer? could you cite a source?

in the end, the "why" is almost trivial. nevertheless, i'd like accurate information.

 

You can get the XFire 4870. Your point?

I agree with you. But when you see the results with an unbiased bench tool, you don't need to be an insider to realize something is going on. Specifically what, I'd like to know and most of all, and end to it.

 

You guys are confusing the OP. 5870 is more powerful.

/thread

 

Umm, ok. What's to stop the manufacturers from developing a new notebook with dual 5870's? And if the GTX 285M was a whole new card, not just an overclocked GTX 280M, we probably wouldn't have a dual GTX 285M notebook anyway.

 

how many 3dmarks06 does 285m get with 1.6GHz i7?

 

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing around 12,000 - 13,000 3DMarks.

 

to me 5870 is a failure. Nvidia have had that G92 chip for like 4 years now and it can still hold its own. You can talk benchmarks or numbers all day long but in real world (aka gaming - thats what those cards are good for) 285 is still a very top contender and coupled in SLI, its a killer combo. I love how people talk about ATi this, Ati that. Super uber Nazi technology, but its still just as fast an good old 8800m GTX thats overclocked to 285 ^^ I remember Ati fanboys saying 3870 will be teh killer, then 4870, now its 5870. lol. 4 years later I still enjoy my nvidia that can kick .

 

the 4870 and 5870 additionally brought in new features that Nvidia didn't have. and the other big thing was that they were very competitive in PRICE compared to Nvidia's stuff.

 

well the cards released from ATI dont have a xfire connector

i would say that is a pretty big reason why they cant do it......

The 5 series is so behind the schedule that it is commonly accepted by vendors that there wont be xfire support for them at all

Re the 285 agreed it is a shrunk g92b core (again) but you can run in SLI

ATI screwed up by not making the 5870 xfire capable. The vendors i have spoken to are not expecting xfire support until end of the year at the earliest, if at all. as i said many have given up

285GTX SLI>>4870Xfire>>280SLI>>5870

argue however much you want thats still the performance scale

 

I don't think they screwed up at all.

You don't need to have a HD5870 XF. I think that was the point, here is a single GPU card that can run the latest games on highest settings.

Anyone with a G73 can run Bad Company 2 at native 1920*1080p with all settings high, at almost 1/3 the cost of a 285 SLI system.

How is that a failure? The fact you need an SLI 285 to get similar performance is the failure...

Car game fans have reported on the G73 with video game proof they can play Dirt 2 with ULTRA settings, DX11 enabled at 32 AVERAGE framerate. In the videos there is absolutely no stuttering or slowdown that affects the game negatively.

And you think this is a failure? It's a single card... for a mobile, laptop, notebook...

I played Bad Company 2 today at the train station on my lap waiting for my train. The bottom never ran hot so my legs didn't sweat. G73 only weighs about 8 lbs, so it's like nothing. How is this failure? I only paid $1,550.

Let me repeat that. I only paid $1,550 and can play on my lap because it runs so cool on the latest games at 1080p with high settings. Truly a failure.

Get what you want is the bottom line. There aren't many DX11 games and even if they are, it will be toss up if ANY notebook, now or future will be able to run it right. Metro will have to wait and see.

But so far, both Dirt 2 and Aliens vs Predator, both run smoothly with no stuttering or slowdown in DX11.

I don't think the HD5870 or the GTX285 are failures. Nvidia as a company is a different story in my mind.

 

yeah right... enjoy your 800x600

 

This is speculation. Don't read it as fact. Actually almost most of what I write in this forum is this. Anyways...

I think people expect too much for the next generation of Mobile GPUs. Regardless of how awesome the new GPUs are, desktops can compensate with larger power sources. Used to be 400 watt was standard, now I see people recommending 600-750. Cooling? No problem, bigger fans and water cooling. Bigger cases with more room and motherboards now compensate for larger fans.

Notebook GPUs are still confined to the small fans, no water cooling, thin cases and about 150 watt power source and that's big for performance notebooks.

What exactly do you expect with those limitations?

 

And I could say that NVIDIA fails for that very same reason. I think it's an absolute disappointment that they can't come up with a new architecture for 4 damn years, the only thing that holds them in the game is the fact they come out with new revisions that can only just compete with ATI's comparable offerings. And at this point, we haven't even brought the price factor in yet.

I'm not biased, I have an NVIDIA card in my desktop, but I truly believe that ATI is doing a lot better than NVIDIA at this point in time. Who knows, that may change later on when Fermi is released, but ATI has brought in the money that they so sorely needed, and I congratulate them for that.

 

As of now, the G92 is two years and five months old since it's debut as the 8800 GT on October 29, 2007. The G80 is only three years and four months since it's debut as the 8800 GTX on November 8, 2006. The only chips that are older than four years old are the G70/G71 architecture of the 7-series and further legacy.

It surprises me that it is still capable of holding it's rank with the top cards for that long and it is only now that ATi has brought something to the table. For those that purchased a performance notebook with the 8800M GTX, they are still in very good shape as it is going to be a while for the green team to get their next mobile architecture ready. The thing is, when the next generation card is released, most likely built from the GT200, it will be very scalable over time just like the G92; shaders will be lasered out to keep it cool until the next shrink, then after the shrink, the full potential of the card will be available along with higher clocks. This is all over time of course, just like the G92. This is an architecture that ATi hasn't been able to juggle with their own cards. They don't have that long term flexibility and scalability that Nvidia has to keep their products performing state of the art without resorting to a new design.

 

Neither of those are really tough games tbh

benchmarks already show where the card performs

devolpers ahave barely had any time to utilitse dx11 and any coding that is included is very very very early and not a huge change from dx10

as for you comment about not needing Xfire, this just shows your lack of enthusiasm about the topic. twin cards is always preferable to solo. if you happy with a solo card go go play dirt 2 and ssshhh and leave the enthusiasts to it

@ Key -- 800x600 are you off your rocker? i play crysis fully whacked out with 2 x aa with mid thirties on my m980 with twin 280's. you cant do that with a 5870, how do i know. I tried...

Metro 2133 will be a real test for the cards

But i will fully expect the nvidia 285's in sli to put in a better performance then the solo 5870. Unless ATI release the 5 series in xfire they will have lost the battle to be on top

I dont care about battery life or any other boring stuff i am talking about bleeding edge performance for the system overall.

FYI -- i take my laptop everywhere, play it at work, at the gf's at the airport. no problem here...

Re price i paid £250 more for my sli 18.4" unit then a solo 17" unit

i think i did pretty well

 

You are so kind. For all of us that don't need a dual card GPU, we are ashamed to participate in this thread, we are not worthy. The Kobalt G890 is almost twice as much as the G73 but you don't get nearly twice the performance. What you consider value isn't the same as what everyone considers value. Not everyone thinks spending an extra $1,500 for just another GPU is worth it and doesn't mean we aren't notebook enthusiasts. That's just insulting for spite.

 

buying in the uk its not alot more expensive then the g73 so for me it is

the topic is over what is best, not what is affordable for you

 

And the topic was about 285 vs HD5870 not about dual GPUs. And according with topic, HD5870 is best.

 

solo on solo its bit and parce

some games perform better with ATI some Nvidia. Either will be able to play most stuff out there

But if you ignore the lack of xfire support then you are a fool tbh...

Believe me i would love to swap my 280's that i have at the moment (soon to be 285's) for dual 5870's but ATI screwed up and the cards are already 4 months behind schedule....

for performance as i said if you want bleeding edge sli'd 285's is where it is at

If you want a solo card it doesnt really matter both are pretty good

 

to respond to your edit

in the uk the costing appears to be much better value as i didnt pay $1500 for the more powerful system

as for performance increase i would say 50-60% on most things is reasonable

somethings like AvP and BC2 the difference is very very noticeable. Especially on a laptop

but that is OT when considering the added value of a 2nd gpu, point is that it is more powerful job done

 

ot but how much is your system if you dont mind...

 

Has anyone tried benching with AA enabled instead? I am in favour for Nvidia but I know how bad the G92 architecture handles AA overall. So I would like to see some benchmarks between solo GTX 285 and ATI 5870 at different AA levels, 4x, 8x and 16x and then bench.

 

the m980 i have atm was circa £2000 where as the g73 (if you can find someone with supply in uk) is around £1799

edit :

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/ASUS_G73JH_TZ008V_G73JH-TZ008V/version.asp

g73

my x8100 is only £200 more and i get all the extra gubbins

apolosiges for OT

 

Besides, the 285M is old tech and only supports up to DX10. It would be unwise to choose it over the 5870.

 

the 285 doesn't support dx11 or even dx10.1

it's g92 based, so it supports dx10.0

the 5870 is a bit faster and supports dx 11 / 10.1

of course, nvidia has some other software of its own that ATI doesn't support, like CUDA, and 3d vision, and some other stuff

but a lot of that may be irrelevant because of open CL and their party 3d solutions, etc.

still something to consider.

 

Single Geforce GTX285M loses to a Single Radeon HD5870M. This is a common thing.

Dual Geforce GTX285M pawns a Single Radeon HD5870M. Obvious.

I don't know if there's Laptops with 2x ATi GPUs.

Dual Radeon HD5870M will over pawn Dual Geforce GTX285M definitely.
Or Radeon HD5970M will pawn a Dual Geforce GTX285M.

It's just like Desktop. Radeon HD5870(Single Chips) lose to a Geforce GTX295(Dual Chips) slightly.
However, when comes to Radeon HD5970(Dual Chips), it pawns Geforce GTX295(Dual Chips) harshly.

ATI Radeon HD5800-Series have LOWER POWER CONSUMPTION. Lower Heat due to that. Have DirectX 11 supports too as well as Stream.
Nvidia Geforce GTX2000-Series have HIGHER POWER CONSUMPTION and produces more heat due to that. Have only DirectX 10 supports and CUDA as well as the worthless and useless PhysX(imagine how many actually uses it).

I smell this THREAD is full of Fanboy. Sad. Please face the reality, facts and reviews.

 

now see, if that wasn't a lie it would be fine but since your an Ati bot you can't even open your eyes on real world benchmarks. 285SLi would your 5870 and your entire family ^^

how old are you?? -5?? if so then you enjoy your 320x240 ^^ Ati Bots FTL!!!

true, but from a business perspective this is astonishing. I would love to run my business just as nvidia does. They can use the same chips they did years ago and save $$ on R&D. I like Ati, I hate ATi community (aka Ati bots). The same thing happened when 3870 was announced. everyone was bieeeching about how nvidia is bad and how they suck. 3870 was made by Nazis, it uses NASA space technology and its gonna be 900% faster then 9800M GTX. We all know how that went. Basically everyone now sold their m17 or OCZs. lol. wasted $$ buy hey, its now mine so I dont give a then 4870 was announced. same thing, Ati bots run to their computers and went to NBR to spam about how it is going to be uber duper NASA technology DX56 GTi turbo. We all know how that went. To be fair, this time they were that a lil bit tad faster then 280 but nothing a new driver would manage. Now its 5870. Again, Ati bots storm. Nvidia is going bankrupt!! here is Ati with Flex capacitor!! Nvidia just did the sam old OC and they are good again. I appreciate the try from Ati side but to me this is a total business failure. They tried to beat nvidias 3 year old chip 3 times and they still fail with all that new tech. Now that nvidia was making it for so long the manufacturing process is cheap so the price argument is gone. its like saying, here s a new ferrari, it ll cost more but it will be just as fast as my old cheavy malibu. If anyone sees that as a feat in engineering then good luck making decisions in live.

 

We covered this back with the ASUS W90. This is all ATI releases to their manufacturing partners and notebook manufacturers. They do not supply them with the entire card. Same goes for Nvidia.

So if a mobile card doesn't have a Crossfire/SLI connector it is because the manufacturer of that notebook called for a card that was designed without one.

Now just for the record according to AMD.com the Mob. HD5870 does support ATI CrossFireX™ multi-GPU technology and specifies that the card has to be equipped with a bridge connector.

Was that one of your jokes? Because it's been my understanding that the exact opposite has been true. GT200 tech had a hard enough time back when it was being shrunk from 65nm to 55nm....when Nvidia attempted to shrink to 40nm two cut down versions (GT212 and GT214) were scrapped entirely because they couldn't be produced. Perhaps Nvidia will finally be able to come out with a redesigned 40nm GT214 core for the GTX 380M but the the next jump for GPU fab is 28nm and Nvidia's not getting that out of GT200. I'll give you Fermi's got a real scalable design on paper so we'll see how that goes.

For ATI, the stream processors architecture that's in the 5000 series cards is essentially the same as that in the 4000 series (which was also the same as 3000), but with added instructions to handle DX11 (which wasn't hard since their cards have been designed with DX11 in mind since before DX10). It only looks like new architecture because ATI has been able to add more hardware, or more hardware on a smaller die process, instead of overclocking the exact same dies over and over and over again.

Next generation ATI supposedly due to launch at the end of the year (only for desktops I assume) will be new architecture....rumored to use MIMD based shaders.

 

My bad, I meant to write DX10 not DX11. That's what I get for replying right after waking up.

 

I'm not a fanboy for either side, but I can tell you are...your just as guilty of being a Nvidia bot as you so vehemently claim he is...

ATi failed at beating the 2xx series? what? 4xxx's and 5xxx's are cooler, more reliable (see failure rates), CHEAPER, and in many cases the same speed or faster.

Not to mention NV DID fail at making the 3xx series...you didnt touch on that...1% successful fab rate FTL...

Its less of a question of how awsome ATi is, and more about how totally inadequeate NV is. Hope thye can turn it around, cause I want competition.

 

That guy is a fanboy, he doesn't read the facts.

SLI GTX280M 3DMark06 is 14,300. The HD5870 is 13,000. The SLI GTX280M on Vantage is 10,142. I got 9,026 on this machine. Sadly I have not seen benchmarks for 285 SLI yet...

But this is ok as we all know the 285M is not new, it's EXACTLY the same as the 280M with higher clocks.

But that doesn't matter since the highest benchmarks I've seen yet are on XF 4870 and doubt the 285M will be breaking them.
- The Alienware M17x is a beast unrivaled by any SLI Clevo system still.

I agree with most of what you said, but you may want to read the full article from AnandTech as they delve into how the 5xxx series was made. It is a new architecture. Whether it's as ground breaking as you'd like it to be is not the issue.

 

I can´t say my GT200 GTX 260 is hot at all, idle air at 45 degrees and maxes out at 60 degrees. ATI 4870 runs hotter.

 

Whatever happens in this thread, please stay non-personal and on-topic. There is some good conversation going on and no one would like to see it ruined by a few out of place comments.

 

Notebooks with Dual video cards aren't exactly a giant market segment..... so in the big picture that feature isn't very relevant.

The big picture is performance/watt/heat .... as in who can produce a card with good performance with lower power consumption and heat emission that can fit in a multipurpose laptop that can be used for a variety of purposes. Most people don't buy ridiculous 17" gaming laptops that weigh a ton and have almost no portability..... It's much more common for people to spend a bit extra on a multipurpose 14 or 15 inch laptop so it can double as a portable gaming rig.

Machines like the ideapad 460 or the Acer 5740G probably sell vastly more units than huge gaming laptops..... and this is where ATI is really kicking butt. The ATI 5650 can run most modern games at a a reasonable native res (1440x900 or 1366x768) with medium to high settings.... that's a much bigger seller than extremely niche sli systems

 

Yeah, I guess you could say that. But you still have to consider the fact that ATI has released the cards with the new technology, DX11, less power consumption, less heat produced, etc, and I think this is a lot of what the consumers want. They want a powerful notebook, that won't run too hot, that won't take up a HUGE amount of battery life, and of course they want DX11.

 

This seem to be an Ati VS. Nvidia thing more then the Ati Radeon Mobility 5870 VS. Nvidia 280M. So, I will shed some of my experience with them. I have had the
Hp Dv9640us, Intel ??? @ 1.5ghz, Nvidia 8600m gs
Ocz Whitebook, Intel [email protected], Intel [email protected], Ati 3870 crossfired.
Sager Np9262, Intel e8600, Nvidia 9800m GTX Single.
Alienware M17x Intel [email protected], Intel [email protected], Nvidia 280m GTX Sli
Alienware M17x Intel [email protected], Ati 4870 Crossfire
What are my experience with them?

My hp was a 8600m gs with gddr2, 256mb of vram, 128 bit card, 16 Stream CPU’s, clocked at 500 on the core and 400 on the memory. The card was crap. It ran hot. It was very under powered and couldn’t even run fear maxed at 1280*720. It was one of nvidia’s failures that they made. The worst thing is that there was about 4 different 8600m cards that made a big difference between each other for no reason. There was the 8600m gs with gddr3. There was the 8600m gt with gddr2 and the 8600m gt with gddr3. A first buyer like myself looking at didn’t know the differences between them and just pick one which was a sorry mistake. The overclocking on this card made ALL game from non playable to completely playable from 500/400 to 700/500….. but because of the faultness of the cards. This card didn’t last that long.
my First overclock

Ocz whitebook was a solid notebook and had all the bells and whisle that you can ask for. It was a big jump from the 8600m gs and I was a big fan for ati after. What I notice with the ati’s was driver installs was a pain at first but crossfire always worked and gave a big difference in performance. Doing single card runs and dual card runs was night and day from each other as the fps doubled in most games. However in certain games, the cards sank horible. Games that were very heavy shader dependant such as Crysis got 17fps on very high with crossfire. Games such as cryostatis maxedout completely got 5fps just looking around. Stalker Clear Sky got 5fps with everything maxed out. Also those cards with aa on got crippled. At 8aa some games fps got cut in half. The cards potential to over was very nice. Was out standing. From 650/850 to 735/1135. As for cooling, I wouldn’t sat the 3870 run hot because of the fact that the notebook it self had horible cooling. Both cards had one tiny fan cooling it.
Whitebook Cooling see Project Freeze
<a hre="http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4547676&postcount=64">single 3870 runs[/URL]
Vantage stocked
E-wrecked Vantage Record
DMC4 maxed no aa

3870 crossfire AA error
DMC4 1920*1200 no aa
DMC4 8aa maxed out


The sager np9262 was a monster and even though it was a single 9800m gtx. It held it’s own. I maxed out every game. Cryostasis got 15fps and so did stalker even though the 3870 got 5fps. Which is pretty big. Prototype got with this was average 25fps, min 15fps, and a max of about 35fps. The game was very playable as it wasn’t fast paced so you didn’t need to much fps to play though out the game. The card’s clocks was clocked at 500/1250/800 and overclocked playable to 600/1500/900 and suicide at 690/1715/970. Which was stupid high but dangerous on overclocking.

Vantage overclocked

The Alienware M17x with 280m gtx sli brought the newer nvidia cards and but with sli. sli helped in a lot of games and slaped around the single 9800m gtx in most case. However. Some games didn’t budge in sli such as prototype. It was about a 3fps increase over the 9800m gtx and sli didn’t hurt nor help that game. Ninja blade also didn’t make a difference with sli vs single cards as I got 35fps average about 50fps max and I don’t remember the min. The cards was stocked at 583/1450/950 and maxed out at 675/1688/1080. Which if you notice is a decrease over the 9800m gtx. Cooling was very good on the notebook so this cards ran like butter. Bionic commando got 90fps min, 100average and 150fps max.

Right now I have the 4870 crossfire and I can say it is much faster then the nvidia cards. Prototype sits at 40fps average, 30 min, and a max of about 50-55fps I believe. Crossfire didn’t affect this game. Ninja blade crossfire didn’t help but my average is 60fps, max of 120fps and 30fps min. stock cards are 550/888 and I have seen it go as high as 650/1200 which is stupid high. Cooling seems better then the 280m gtx. Bionic commando got 60fps min, 90fps average, and 100fps max.

5870. I would like to comment cause I have been watching but I do not own it. The 5870 is the best mobile card out peroid. Comparing it to the 285 is a joke. Yes in most games it is close performance but dx11 vs dx10 is the answer. Also the 5870 is cheaper on top of that. Core is at 700/1000 and I have seen it hit 920/1250 which is a hugh jump compared to my cards. It is also the first card to beat the 3870 crossfire which beat the 280m. 3870 vs 280m

However as of recent I have gotten stopping caring about temps, fps, overclocking and many other things so I can’t comment to much about it.

Nvidia
I have seen some comments and I would like to take some of your thoughts and mix it with mines. I have found out that it is true that nvidia has been using the same tech and when it came out (8800m gtx) there was no competition and those cards was boss. As time went on. 9800m gtx, 280m, 285m. the overclocking has been the same or gotten worse. Sli is a pain to get working even though you can make your own profile, a driver built in profile has much better performance. However nvidia has been saving a lot of money instead of making new tech they are using old tech and people are still buying which is a plus for them, not so much for us. one thing about nvidia is the lower the resoultion drop, the performance would increase so much.

Ati
Crossfire is nice and it works for most games out there. The 3870 had issues with a lot of clouds, smokes, shaders, and horible with aa but was fixed with the 4870’s core. And then perfected with the 5870. You can tell the 3870 (which is a good card and can still max out games now) was just testing the waters to see where it stands. So to say it was a joke and people who bought the ocz whitebook, alienware m17 was stupid is a joke. There is driver issues but they aren’t as bad as the whitebook days when I had the 3870.

Resoultion Difference
ATi
DMC4 1920*1200 no aa
DMC4 1920*1080 no aa
Nvidia
DMC4 1920*1200 no aa
DMC4 1920*1080 no aa


Vantage
Vantage 280m gtx sli stocked
Vantage 280m gtx single Stocked
vantage 280m single overclocked
280m gtx sli overclocked
vantage 280m gtx sli x run overclocked
vantage 280m gtx sli x run stocked
vantage 4870 crossfire overclocked
vantage 4870 single stocked
stocked 4870 is 11,600 on the gpu in vantage
farcry2
280m gtx sli stocked
4870 gtx sli stocked
9800m gtx single overclocked
9800m gtx single stocked is 30fps.
3870 crossfire stocked

i'm tired. i dont feel like finishing. hoping this will help you out.

 

lol yes.

I would guess that less than 5% of laptops sold are considered enthusiast gamer machines, and then an even smaller fraction of those are SLI/CF machines.

Personally, I would never go for dual GPU laptop because it is simply way too cumbersome (a close friend has a Clevo M980NU...wow lol) and the high cost yielding poor performance especially for dual GPU. I'd much rather have a medium high-end laptop for portable gaming (something like a Asus G73) and a proper desktop for maximum performance (i7 920, 5870 in CF, etc.)

 

True. And I think we all agree that:

1 5870 > 1 GTX 285M

1 5870 < 2 GTX 285M

But if ATI is not concerned with CF mobile GPUs for now then I'm not too surprised. the SLI/CF mobile laptops are a tiny tiny market and since ATI has already been kicking nvidia's butt for the past 6 months in the desktop world they could care less.

 

I believe even Asus has said that CF notebooks for the super high end is not profitable enough for them to do it. G73 is probably as good as it will be until ATi releases their next gen mobile or Nvidia.

 

for ati you are prob right ziddy

but then some people who are prepared to spend cash and want cutting edge stuff will need dual gpu's

which ATI havent provided this time

shame i would love 5870's in CF

 

Good point. The laptop manufacturers' demand (which translates into market demand) would be quite low for dual GPU laptops. I guess the W90 didn't work out as well as they'd hoped.

I'm still amused at people who would throw $2000+ at a laptop. Not that I'm not judging them, you can spend money on whatever you like. But in my opinion, if you want cutting edge then go for a desktop. A $2000 desktop system will completely annihilate any $2000+ laptop

The sig systems that I have cost me a total of $2300 ($950 for the Clevo M571TU, $1350 for the i7 920 desktop).

And my friend with the Clevo M980NU spent about $2300 for his 280M SLI laptop. So I've got a home system that will play virtually all games at max settings and avg 50-60fps (except crysis of course, lol) and I have a mobile gaming machine that will play most games at decent settings and maintain decent fps. And for my desktop machine I have the option to go for a 5870 CF if I wanted to get the best of the best as the X58 chipset supports both SLI and CF on a single motherboard.

But in the end, its diff strokes for diff folks. I don't personally choose a dual GPU laptop due to its cumbersomness, limited upgradeability, and cost/performance ratio. But that's just me and if you derive enjoyment out of your investment then all the power to you.

 

Tests above missing Vantage 4870 CF @ stock to compare to the 280M SLI @ stock.

While one often gives grief to NV for the respawns of G92 tech, one could also argue that the 5870 is really just a tweaked 3800 on the same grounds. But I'm not arguing with either tech IF it works well enough. I'd bet that if Nvidia added DX11 featureset to a G92C (my made up name for the new tweaked core) and made it 40nm such that it got slightly better clocks than the 285M, most of the arguments here would be gone.

So what then, is NV's negatives?
Behind the tech curve in a notebook arena where changing out to new tech isn't an option in 90% of the cases. So DX11 is a desired missing element. You probably wouldn't care if that came on a modified G92 core as long as it performed yes? So they need to get this working, and it will probably take 6 months if understand this as well.

40nm tech. Laptop folks want cooler cheaper chips. So right now ATI has this and NV doesn't. But how much power does this save? Not tons, but notebooks try to save every drop possible. NV has G92 cores in 40nm but not high end models. Since they have it working, it's not unlikely that you might see this in a few months.

Honestly I think ATI's 5870 is a nice hit but I expected more. It needed to beat the G92 models by a lot more than it has. I think this speaks to a problem that both companies have, that process shrinks are really contributing to the advances in ability more than the feature set at this point. When thinking about it that way the two are really only about 15-20% different based on process shrink. And moreover, that only makes about 5-6fps from a 30fps base. That's a nice improvement, but I don't really count the difference between 60 and 80fps as anything I care about. I care about the ones that are low to begin with. And those aren't getting night and day different.

If ATI gets a regular mobile driver program that supports chips all the way back and keeps updating on a regular basis, then I'd say the 5870 is worth getting. But if the 5870 only comes as a single chip, then a 285 sli is probably the better deal to a power user. If I'm choosing between the 4870CF vs the 285SLI I'm going to again with the the SLI because the features are the same (no DX11 for either) and in actual games the 4870 doesn't soundly beat the 285 and the driver program from NV is in place and has been working on a regular basis for longer than the as yet unproduced ATI program. And if the ATI driver program never materializes (they promised it at the beginning of last year mind you), then I wouldn't buy their chips ever, period.

In real games the 285 doesn't do badly against the 5870 (stock to stock, as I leave the OC's out of my comparisons). If it goes 40nm it might very well keep up (15-20% improvement). Then it only lacks DX11, which as ATI showed, can practically be bolted on. That's all NV did with the 3xx mobile series is bolt 10.1 onto the G92 core. So the funny thing is, in 6-9 months you may well just be looking at a modified G92 core against the 5xxx Cypress and still not seeing much difference in performance.

The real problem is only that Nvidia is woefully late on these small improvements. So if you need a machine now, and you are ok with the driver issues from ATI, go with them. If you want more established drivers and are ok with the DX10, go NV. Otherwise you wait because neither is nirvana.

$.20

 

The Mobility HD4870 uses the same core/architecture as the desktop HD4800 cards but downclocked to save energy/heat. The Mobility HD5870 has been said to be equivalent to the desktop HD5770. This is not surprising as the desktop HD5870/5850 are so beastly.

Also you have to factor in cost. A quick glance on xoticpc shows the 285M SLI starting at $2335 whereas a G73JH can be had for closer to $1500. I guess to some people the extra $800 is worth the 18" screen, extra 285M (albeit how much performance gain over single 5870 would be interesting to note), and the extra HDD.