GTX 880M or wait?

Oh wow thanks for informing me about that, this game dvr must be new! I really didn't know such a thing existed. My 7970m hasn't worked properly for 3 months now so I haven't even been able to use it.
Even though AMD now seem to have an equivalent to shadowplay, I'd still prefer to move to Nvidia. And I can't wait until 2015.

 

880M SLI is impressive when it works - my 880s score higher than my desktop 780 Ti does and its the superclocked part. Even pushing the core to 1156/1900 (highest I could get with the stock voltage), it only gets around 400 points over my 880s at stock clocks.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2296599/fs/2303386

Stock the 880s are almost 1k higher in graphics score.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2303386/fs/2237636

Nvidia botched the cards somewhere in designing them but when they work correctly, they're quite nice.

My highest 880 overclock vs my highest Ti overclock

Almost 1100 core on the 880s (they go higher but I only had one adapter at the time so I had to shut off turbo when benching those speeds, I'll have to test with the dual PSU some time)

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2326858/fs/2296599

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Things just got more complicated for me, last night my PC started playing up and I'm getting BSODs when I game for over half an hour :-( I still want to wait for the new GPUs but my hands getting forced slowly but surely.

 

The Fermi reactor is going critical?

 

Not sure, I think its my CPU but I can't be sure. I have to say the 480's are tanks, had it since day one and it runs at 90c plus in games for 4 years now but my hand is hovering over the buy button for the G750JZ. I know its a bad time but I can't game at all now and the 880MX/980M look to be maybe 6 months away and the R9-M295X might be sooner but I guess Asus wont put it in the G750 chassis MSI might but I guess it will be paired with a AMD CPU.

 

You may want to hold fire on this one until they iron out the 880M issues, I heard a few NVIDIA Alienware M18X owners are having some kind of issue relating to permanent throttling if the card has crashed too many times.

Check this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757508-pidge-nvidia-has-asked-user-experiencing-problems-880m-list-them-here.html

Also, Mr Fox is probably the go to person for the 880m issues.

In the meantime, if you need a quick fix and the issue is not your CPU, AMD R9 290/X cards are cheap as chips at the moment.

 

Yep 880m's are a pile of poo right now. Hold off since for what ever reason Nvidia doesn't seem like they intend on de-gimping these puppies any time soon.

 

wow I didn't realise single 880M's had so many issues, I thought most of the users with throttling used the 880's in SLI now I'm even more stuck : /

 

This is why nobody should consider the 880M for now. (yes it's a wall of text, but I guarantee it's worth every second of your time)

 

Why an asus or Msi? Get a Alienware! Best gaming laptop you can get plus you can be sure they will come with both amd and nvidia options. Asus don't give the customer choice!

Also you get longevity. I will be putting a m295x into my 6 year old m15x soon. Some will be putting maxwell inside. Think about how far you want your laptop to last.


On the go from my iPod touch

 

I've not really looked into Alienware as they seemed to be priced quite high. What chassis do you recommend? I'm looking for a single GPU platform and I wasn't aware you can upgrade the GPU how's that possible? And how's the cooling compared to G750 I like the idea of having a fan for the GPU and CPU. Thanks .

 

The new MSI GT72 is among the top notebooks now that they introduced dual cooling as well. Im not sure yet, but looking at the benches from GentechPC, it got one of the very best cooling systems out there with 2 very beefy fans.
It have many pro`s which other brands doesnt offer. Even MUX switching like Alienware got.

You should def consider that machine. But I agree with King, Alienware is good too. Love this machine

 

Thanks for the reply. Looking at the Alienware 17 I was really impressed, love the idea of upgradability down the line, that was my main issue with the Asus once I pull the trigger its stuck in that config for good. I can't seem to find any retailers who're selling the GT72 in the UK. I might just wait for the R9-M295X as I take it Alienware are quick to integrate new GPUs to the lineup?

 

Yea they seem to keep up with current stuff. I haven't had my alienware for 1 year yet, purchased when the 780m were new and ordering took a while to get. Almost a year later, 880m's are here lol.

 

Exactly my friend! You get what you pay for If the asus is indeed locked and cannot be upgraded then even my lowly machine will usurp it if I upgrade the GPU again (for third time) 6990M>7970M>M295X. Luckily Nehalem has scaled well over time.

 

Is the cooling on the Alienware on par with the Asus?

 

Alienware always had top of the line cooling but ASUS has put out some really powerful cooling designs. They should be about equal at the end of the day.

 

___________________________________________________________

I have no idea why some people here are negatively spouting off about the 880m in the way they are.
It's a GREAT chip, and I have had no issues with it at all. It plays every game I have at high frame rates,
and far, far better than my old 7970m ever did- especially playing Skyrim.
For those of us who will not OC over OV our 880m's, we won't be seeing any kind of issues with it, like others
who have tried.
It's the best GPU out there right now.

 

_______________________________________________________________

Alienware is priced way too high for what you get, IMO.
Sure, they have an aluminum chassis, you can shut off the IGPU when needed, and has an HDMI-In port, but is that really worth an extra $800-$1000 dollars for it?
This is especially true if you want to upgrade your laptop every 2 years or so, like many people do to take advantage of new GPU tech, and then that cost escalates much higher than that. You could conceivably pay more than $5500 dollars for two Alienware laptops in that time. That's A LOT of money right there.

 

Well said! True to the bone!

 

I'm in a real pickle at the moment. For me it was always going to be the Asus G750JZ which cost £1650 and comes with all the normal Asus support. I can get the Alienware 17 with a 880M and basically the same specs for about the same price, so that's not the issue for me. I like the Alienware support and for £55 I can get accidental coverage which is a bonus.

Now I've read the Alienware has good cooling, but not as good as the G750, and in reference to the 880M that's a big factor. I wouldn't get the current Alienware 17 with the 880M as its got no room to OC down the road when the GPU is a few years old and the cooling is pushed almost to its limit at stock. Now the Asus can cool the 880M no problems (according to some) but its non upgradable down the line as it doesn't use MXM it's a real tossup for me. I need to get a laptop soon but I can wait about another month but not much more, for me the R9-M295X looks like the best best with the Alienware 17 if it even exists!

 

Not this again.

I'll let an Alienware owner explain:

And I will add "offering a replacement system if a problem isn't fixed after 3 tries".

Asus is also overpriced for what it offers, especially considering that Asus pulls every trick in the book to ensure minimal upgradeability: CPU is soldered, GPU uses a custom MXM board so you have to source an Asus card, and not to mention the very tedious teardown just to do something as simple as cleaning out fans and repasting.

It's funny you mention upgrading to newer GPUs, because you can't do that with an Asus. Meaning you'll actually have to buy a new laptop after 2 years if you want better GPUs.

 

Yeah, what's even more retarded than ASUS' proprietary MXM cards are their soldered HQ CPU's. The whole point of the BGA processors is their low profile (reduced Z height) to accommodate thin ultraportable form factors such as Ultrabooks and tablets. Physical space is definitely not at a premium on the mammoth ASUS G series.

 

If the G750 used standard MXM/MQ CPU's it would be the perfect buy for me, but alas that's not the case

 

^well that "G750" is called an Alienware 17/18, MSI GT60/70, and Clevo P1xxSM and P3xxSM.

 

I just like the design of the G750 and the substantial cooling it offers. I think I'm going to go with the Alienware 17, for the warranty and amazingly it's not that badly priced

 

Or the GT72, with an even more powerful cooling system

 

I can't seem to find any UK resellers for the GT72

 

good choice, same as me except proc

 

Thank you. I was just gonna say but then saw your post!

Change laptop after 2 years? No wonder it costs $5000.
Also Alienware laptops have far better build quality. Their mobos can also take a battering. I know for a fact that Clevo laptops in comparison just fizzle up and die when overclocked like my old W860cu. Not my M15x. I can OC it, OV it and mod it to heck and it still runs like a champ.

With Alienware you pay for not only upgrade ability but also component build quality. This allows you to push the hardware to the limit when the machine get's older. Again I repeat you get what you pay for.

The G750 is obsolete the moment you get it because you can't upgrade the GPU and the CPU is soldered now as well. Long gone are the days of the mighty Asus C90. Now that was a brilliant machine!!

 

The new Clevos can also be pushed without coughing and sputtering and then quitting.

I've OC'd and OV'd the Clevo in my sig and it runs like a champ.

 

Yeah but the question is... How long?

If the new Maxwell cards come out in October, I'm going to buy an AW18 at the lowest base config I can get and still have them in it and gut my Clevo and put my 4940MX, SSD (I realize I'll lose an mSATA SSD since there is only room for one), my RAM, and both HDs in there. At least with the AW18, my 4940MX can run even 4GHz (although it looks like 4.2-4.3GHz is common) while in the Clevo machine, managing heat at 3.8GHz is extremely close to the thermal throttle and I have been running my chip at a 47W TDP to keep temps below 80 under full load. SImply abysmal cooling performance in comparison.

 

Well to be fair the AW18 should really be compared with the P570WM instead of the P3xx laptops due to its dimensions and weight. The AW17 would be a better comparison with the P3xx laptops.

 

Except the AW17 is single card. I don't really understand that change from the M17x... I guess they wanted to drive more traffic to the 18s

I really don't WANT an AW18... but it would be nice to get my thousand bucks out of my CPU rather than be stuck with what the 400 dollar MQ chip can do. Kind of stupid to spend another 2800+ for that though when I'm already so invested in this machine so I'll really have to think about it.

Maybe a good compromise would be Clevo releasing a BIOS that supports the new card and working out some deal for them to upgrade my cards for me but based on what I've been reading of Clevo's recent track record, that seems highly unlikely which would force me to go get an AW18 anyway if I wanted the new cards to actually work.

 

Yes the AW17 is single card, but my point was when you cram another 110+W component into AW17's dimensions, it's going to get toasty regardless. (seriously the P377SM-A and AW17 have nearly identical dimensions, with the P377SM-A being about 0.2" longer lengthwise and thicker towards the back, but 0.17" shorter in width).

As for why the move to 18, maybe they had the foresight that thermals would become a problem with future mobile components?

 

Ah, I wasn't aware that the AW17 and the P377SM-A were so close. The P377SM-A is about the same size as my old Alienware M17x with far less efficient cooling. I guarantee you that old machine could dissipate the heat from two 880Ms with a good paste job.

 

Yea the 18 is a beast, you do not want to move this thing frequently. You sit it down and it just kind of camps out where it is.

 

A lot of people use the word beast when describing their laptop I feel the 18 is the one machine that truly deserves that title.

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The 18s would certainly do a better job, but not so sure about the old dual GPU M17x systems. Was 285M SLI ever offered on the M17xR1? In any case I think the GPU heatsink in the M17x R1 is only rated up to 75W, so that 880M is going to run mighty toasty.

As for Clevo's cooling, couple of factors come into play. The most significant being warped contact plates due to either QA or engineering issues, so contact pressure is insufficient. Lapping can yield huge gains (over 10C drop) depending on how warped the plate was. The fans are actually more powerful than Alienware's, but the smaller radiator (and hence fin area) makes then perform less than their numbers would indicate.

And then of course you have the fans sitting directly below the GPUs in the Alienware, whereas in the Clevo the fan is next to the GPU. Which results in atrociously long heatpipes for the slave GPU. And don't forget AW heatsinks have all 3 heatpipes running to the core, instead of the 2+1 config in the Clevo (2 heatpipes to core, 1 to vRAM + periphery VRM).

 

Yea I read about deadsmiley having to sand the contact plate that really makes clevo look bad

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The 285M was the R2. It would definitely get toasty in there but even when I blocked the intake, my M17x still kept my 260Ms which were overclocked past 280M speeds at around 65C at the most plus the heatsinks in that thing are HUGE and cover the entire card. It would be workable but yeah I think you're right that the 880M is going to be hot no matter what. A 780M would probably be just fine though.

Clevo made some really poor design decisions with these machines for sure... I'm still considering modding my case but I'll have to see if XOTIC can get me a replacement bottom cover first.

The fact that my GC Extreme paste job I put on the GPU today when I was preparing it for return after the GPU decided to die and then come back to life is only between 1-2C away from the CLU application but a good 6-8C from the stock IC Diamond tells me that when I noticed the plate wasn't sitting flat and bent it, that did more than anything else did so yeah, lapping it would probably have great effects IF I could keep it flat. Its so easy to bend the assembly that I am doubtful about being able to pull that off.

 

To be fair the 260M was a 65W card and the 280M 75W. The 280M was about 6% faster than the 260M (lolwut), so when OC'd past 280M speeds I guess the TDP would be no more than 75W, seeing as the 260M has 12.5% less shaders.

If you look at the review for a 765M SLI P370SM system, in the temperature section they mention neither GPUs go above 70C after 1 hour of Furmark. 765M has a TDP of 75W according to techPowerUp so the cooling isn't that bad, especially when you take into account some of the rather... questionable design decisions.

 

I was pretty sure the 260M was a 75W card. Hmm... Either way I had the core juiced past 280M frequencies and those max temps were also with Furmark. Gaming kept them quite cool. If I knew then what I know now about repasting, I could have easily shaved off more from the temps.

The P370SM had better cooling than the P377SM - in fact, mySN decided not to carry the P377SM or the P377SM-A because of the poor design decisions Clevo made in them so that says something right there. Maybe one of these days I'll ask them what their specific reasoning was.

 

Faster to PM Meaker lol

But I'm surprised that mySN would say that, especially since the 880M heatsink actually improved my master 780M's temps a bit. The fans and CPU heatsink are identical, and the slave heatsink looks identical to me. Wonder what those design issues that mySN alludes to could be.

 

I'm curious about this master heatsink you speak of because my machine has the same design for master and slave heatsinks with the separate plate. I thought that was the case but confirmed it when I opened it up earlier. There is the plate that sits over the core and a separate spreader for the VRMs and memory.

Here is the post where mySN said they weren't happy with the P377SM and decided not to carry it or the P377SM-A

EDIT: Nevermind, looked at your cooling mods pic and I see what you're talking about. Its not immediately obvious but yes, that is the heatsink I have.

 

You can get a very powerful desktop system in a small form factor these days, not to mention quiet too. Then get yourself an ultrabook (non-gaming grade) for when you aren't working. Take a look at the Corsair Obsidian 250D case. You can fit most (but not all) high end desktop GPUs in there, in addition to a water-cooled, overclocked i7. The price/performance will be better than any laptop, and you won't have to worry so much about heat, and it will be easy to upgrade. Heck, you can buy used Radeon R9 280X cards these days for well under $200. It's also small enough that you can fit it in your luggage (depending on what size luggage you have).

And if a better/newer GPU comes out next month? Sell your current card and buy the new one. Done.

I also tried switching to a mobile platform (sold my desktop, bought a laptop - or two). Ended up getting rid of the laptops and building a new desktop. The limited amount of times I needed a mobile platform in no way compensated for how much better, more powerful and cheaper the desktop is. I managed to find a quality used Radeon R9 280X for $170 (performance is about on par with a GTX 770).

So unless you will be moving around often (like every day), the pro (portability) may not be enough to offset the cons of a desktop vs laptop in your case.

Only you know though, so it is of course your call.

EDIT: Here is what the Corsair 250D looks like (I built the system myself for funsies). The monitor is a 23" LG IPS, for size comparisons.

 

With the rumors of new cards coming from AMD next month and then 980M in October, it would be silly to buy a machine right now if you can hold off.

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People often say that Alienware laptops are overpriced simply based on specs - and they are right on that point. If you look purely at the components, Alienware products charge a lot more for the same components.

But once you factor in service, warranty and quality, you then realize what it is you are paying extra for.

Not to mention that nobody needs to pay the listed price for Alienware laptops. Search for coupons, ask for a discount, talk to a sales rep - you can easily knock a few hundred dollars off their listed price.

 

So August-Octomber the new lineup will probably be released. But how long until they start making good notebooks with that lineup?
Probably only early-mid 2015, I guess

 

Refreshed notebooks will go out the same month the chip goes on sale. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

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