Games to boycott for mistreatment of employees

I'd love to see a running thread of Gamers who decide to investigate how the game they are playing was developed.

You don’t want to work in the video game industry

Games should not be developed because of poor management decisions and incompetence of management. Employees should not have to work 100 hour weeks without compensation because of management's mistakes.

Post here as you find out about them and let the NBR community know so they can add this to the equation of whether to buy or not.

There is the excuse that these working terms are the norms and it's just accepted. But that is just wrong. For example in 2010 the Swiss financial industry was #1 in the world beating the United States. The average person in the US in finance works 40-60 hours. Swiss average is 35 hours. The Swiss outperformed US finance industry with less hours worked. The gaming industry as a whole is of much more disastrous position. It's global and widespread. There is no standard for working in the gaming industry, employees are expendable, there is no job security. And they are worked to the ground due to mismanagement, not because of employee incompetence.

 

Boycott L.A. Noire!

Is it your dream to work in game development? I'm sure it was for many who worked on L.A. Noire.

It was better to be unemployed with no other job to go to than it was to work on L.A. Noire.

Boycott LA Noire anyway. The game was developed by mistreating employees. Supporting L.A. Noire is supporting mistreatment of human beings. Supporting L.A. Noire tells companies like Rockstar it's ok to publish a game that was developed through inhumane working conditions as long as it sells.

- Long hours without due compensation. Dumb deadlines and 12 hour work days. This has been investigated by authorities.
- The long hours the employees suffered were due to terrible management, stupid decisions, poor scheduling and high turn-over. Each time someone left, work was turned over to someone else who then had to work 2-3-4 jobs unable to figure out what needs to be done. Over 100 employees left L.A. Noire development.
- Team Bondi's method of employment was to employ junior level employees and work them until they quit. Burn them to the ground instead of hiring better qualified employees, giving them the wages they deserve with reasonble working conditions. Employees were expendable. They created jobs even below junior so they could pay people less and work them harder.

- Inappropriate treatment of employees in public in the work place by Bredan McNamara. Showed no respect for his employees.

- In 2007 when a 3rd party company was invited to resolve moral and high turn-over... It was decided Brendan McNamara needed to be isolated from everyone else... How pathetic is that?
- High turn-over rate.
- Over 100 developers not credited for their work
- Terrible working conditions
- Team Bondi when they closed shop owed over a 1 million to developers of the game in un-paid wages.
- Brendan McNamara initially squandered tens of millions in funding to the point Sony refused to publish due to his irresponsible decisions in 2005. Game picked up by Rockstar and can see Rockstar no longer wants to associate with him either after they took over much of the operations and development of the game later.
- Brendan McNamara has no concept of working as a team. He has no concept that the games he directs are not his, but the work of a collective team. He did not make the game. The team did. He is nothing without them. He's a , of enormous proportions.
- Brendan McNamara showed no respect for his management team and the leads. He made decisions solo without asking if the idea is even feasible.

Note: I am not faulting Rockstar. Rockstar is just a publisher here. There are e-mails indicating even if Team Bondi didn't close, they severed relations with them after L.A. Noire.

Also note, L.A. Noire IP is owned by Rockstar. McNamara the who ran Team Bondi will unlikely be part of a sequel if there is one. Hopefully he burned his bridges.

Why Did L.A. Noire Take Seven Years to Make? - Xbox 360 Feature at IGN

Here is something to think about when you hand over your hard earned money, money earned while being treated as a human being, where you are compensated fairly for your work, where you enjoy working... For many employees who worked on L.A. Noire, they worked between 80-110 hours a week and never received any monetary compensation for their overtime.

 

Red Dead Redemption - Rockstar San Diego

Gamasutra: Rockstar Spouse's Blog - Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees have collected themselves

Rockstar dev recalls "deception", "abuse" • Eurogamer.net

 

Heard the PC Version was unplayable due to the DRM enacted anyways. Wasn't planning on buying due to that inconvenience. With this though, this game is a total torrent for me.

At the rate you are going, this thread should be: "Don't buy Rockstar Games."

 

Crunch Time, Game Development. Poor Management.

Game creators sometimes are incompetent at leading a team. And don't have the concept or the experience to lead a team. Large games are developed by leadership, not by ego-maniacal 1 man teams. This kind of attitude is among many reasons why game development seems to be unable to conform to what is appropriate working conditions.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...roblem-of-crunch-time-in-game-development.ars

 

Slavery was abolished long time ago. It's their fault they work extra hours for free voluntarily.

 

Blunt, but true.

Game companies are no exception for bad work conditions like any other type of industry, so I'm not really surprised about this.

 

Let us be fair when we acknowledge that you're oversimplifying. I find it very interesting when people invoke the 'it's your choice -- you're free' card. I, just don't understand this notion. I mean, I could ignore fundamental laws of sociology, social psychology, and group identity and dependence in order to accept something so naively at face value. But until I can manage that, this idea sounds too simplistic.

Yes, people are free to chose, in theory. Slavery was abolished. This doesn't mean that modern mechanics and circumstances are not in place that drive certain individuals into doing things that they might not otherwise do under truly unrestrained conditions. Freedom is a rather vague hypothesis, by and large. Those that have the luxury to operate on their own terms are fortunate, and should appreciate such latitude rather than infer that every other human being is holding equal capacity to impose their own terms.


What I can agree with. . . companies and industry are hardly the bastions for humane standards. Blunt. True. Acceptable?

 

Yes, the reality is that game development isn't, well, all fun and games. Much of this is also part of a company's work ethic. My dad works in a large Silicon Valley firm where it's the norm to work 12 hour days and then take additional work with you during nights and weekends, and his company is far from unique.

Good to be aware of this stuff and realize that many games are the product of countless hours of hard work and toil of dev teams, but it's hardly slavery or mistreatment.

 

The take from some guys in the industry on working conditions : Penny Arcade - Extra Credits – Working Conditions. If you're interested, also watch the other videos, they often have good points.

 

It wasn't so long ago that EA was called out for the same thing.

ea_spouse: EA: The Human Story

 

So either put in the 12 hour workdays or don't work in gaming industry because this industry is allowed to abuse their employee's passion for game development? That's a horrible way to view this problem.

No matter what a person's passion may be, they shouldn't be given the ultimatum, work 12 hour days, ignore your family, ignore your other life obligations, and work without compensation or you can't work doing what you love. That's not how working conditions work in any developed country.

It's not about slavery. Every job in the USA for example by law has to have worker rights posted in plain open view so every employee knows what rights they have. Among those rights are being paid for overtime. Also any company in the US if was forcing employees to work in such conditions or be fired would certainly be liable to be taken to court.
- The problem with the gaming industry is no person has the courage to stand up for their employee rights. They are afraid they will be labeled as a whistle blower and destroy any chance of gaining employment in the industry again.
- This alone speaks volume about this industry. No person should be afraid of standing up for working conditions. The industry itself needs to be rectified.
- I know plenty of people who work at successful software companies and programmers and they meet their deadlines working 9-5 hour schedule. It's understandable sometimes for some jobs, like if you are are the technology dude at a finance company working long hours during tax season. But then the responsible company pays such employees overtime and bonuses for that! And it's usually stated clearly during the job interview.
- The big problem with gaming industry is that these employees were given the understanding they were being hired for 9-5 hour job with some need for overtime for crunch time. Except at Rockstar and Team Bondi, crunch time lasted years, not just a few months.

 

But come on now, they kinda signed up for this, it was their choice to apply for a salaried job in the video game industry knowing that this particular industry has deadlines. I'm sure they were told that they'd be working 12 hour days, cramming work to meet the game's deadline.

Almost every one of my workdays is a 12 hour day, but unlike these guys, I don't work in an office sitting in a chair, I work as a contractor for the oil field doing physical labor all day long, and putting myself in real, potentially life threatening situations if I or someone else slips up. Atop that I bet I get paid about the same as these guys if not less, and you know what? I don't complain, I know what I signed up for and I find ways to enjoy the work I do. The same as these guys know what they signed up for, and if they can't take it then the option to quit and swallow the consequences is always there.

 

People in sweatshops are free to leave when they want, too.

That's an extreme comparison, of course, but realize that game development is probably the closest thing to sweatshops we have in the developed world.

 

If you're an oil field contractor, you make a lot more money than a rank and file game programmer.

 

You obviously didn't read anything. And obviously not reading the news. These companies have been taken to court and the employees won. It's not acceptable for these companies to treat their employees this way. EA had to pay 30 million in one class suit.

Specifically for L.A. Noire, Bondi hired junior level employees. These are entry level positions, for many it was their first project out of college. They were hired for 9-5 job. Not 12 hours. Instead these employees were forced to work 7 days a week, up to 110 hours, without overtime pay, and they were underpaid to begin with. How can you be so callous and indifferent? For many employees before quitting they worked overtime for 3-4 years and were never compensated. As long as you have your game, you don't care how it was developed?

Crunch time was 52 weeks out of the year, for years at a time. Crunch time never ceased, their deadlines were never reached due to managerial incompetence.

Why don't you read a little before putting in your opinion.

Neither Australia or USA allows employers to force their employees to work 80-100 hours a week without compensation. Working such extended hours is considered inhumane. The EU has far more stringent laws on what is acceptable work hours per week. The gaming industry right now is allowed to get away with this due to competition for jobs. There are more people graduating with intent to work in the gaming industry than there are jobs, since many of these studios open and shut down in a flash. These large publishers shouldn't be allowed to use the current economic situation to their advantage as such. And for many they aren't. L.A. Noire was developed in Australia, but that doesn't mean people in EU and US shouldn't care.

 

I might make more, idk how much these guys make, but I'll tell you what,

Salaried jobs are just like this. Most doctors working at hospitals are also salaried, and many of them work ridiculous hours and practically live where they work. But how many people acknowledge them? That's just the way it is, personally I'd be glad if I were them just to have a job. I've seen so many people who have degrees and no job, or homeless folks with college degrees that are dying to be given an opportunity. How many people do you think are out there working on computer arts degrees will actually find a job in that field?

I don't think their situations aren't all that bad. And like I said, if this is about them not being compensated for their hours, well then maybe they should have read over the contracts they signed to be salaried employees and realized that they don't get paid per hour. If they weren't getting paid AT ALL, then that's one thing, and in that case they can just sue and they'll win.

 

bankers (analysts and associates) work up to 120 hours a week...12 hour days are like vacation to them

and their work is more pressure filled and dreary than video game designers

as someone said, no one forced them to do the job...if you don't like it, work somewhere else or open your own studio.

 

They choose to because they are compensated for it with either overtime or bonuses or chance for promotion. IF someone in the US opts to work an 80 hour week, they expect compensation, a bonus, and certainly a chance for promotion. They don't do it for free, no one does it free, regardless if it's salary.

Clearly again you are so ignorant of what you speak of. The point is these game developers are not compensated and they don't have job security. They are just thrown away like trash and mistreated. Chance for promotion in the industry is slim since they are treated as being expendable anyhow.

And I know plenty who work in the finance and I don't know ANYONE who works 12 hour days. At least here in Boston area, people have families which they have obligations to as well. You're statement is just ridiculous. The average hours worked in Switzerland in the finance sector is 35 hours. ALL members of the EU have to abide by regulations on work hours. And 12 hour work days is not among them.
- Maximum average working hours 48.
- If employee agrees to be exempt from directive, maximum hours 65.
- Employers must keep track of hours worked and make those hours available to authorities.

 

I think it's kind of funny that people find this as such a foreign idea, it happens to a lot of people. You need to grow a spine sometimes and just buck up and leave. If enough people left they would be screwed and be forced to get you back.

I worked 17 hour days in 100 degree for most of the day when I was 16, and when I said it was enough. And, guess what? I make three times as much doing an easier job for less hours now.

However, in my first statement, that is being theoretical but for the most part I can't see a deadline-based company surviving an employee deficit.

 

They don't. The average gaming development studio doesn't last very long.

Also whoever you were working for should be taken to court. There is such a thing called Child Labor Laws in the USA, which applies to all youth under the age of 18. And I'm sure there are similar laws in the EU and other developed countries.

But just like many others in high school during summers and in college I worked 7-3 in labor job and then worked 5-11 in a kitchen. But that was only in the summers. I was not told by either jobs I had to work 120 hours for them or be fired. And working a summer job is nothing in comparison to a career. So why even bothering to use an example of working a summer job to a career is beyond me.

 

Did you not notice the part where Team Bondi released exactly one game before shutting down?

 

I highly doubt what you say, unless you are paid very well and well compensated.

I won't believe a word you say if you are going to deny there isn't a worker's union that fight on your behalf to make sure you're working conditions are safe, the employers follow all regulations, ensure you have benefits, minimum wage and salary. I seriously doubt that the Oil industry doesn't have a strong union.

Oh wait there is, and you can find out how they bargain for your rights and what rights you have... Yep easily found with google. 12 hour work days is not included, and safety regulations are among them. FYI, working 12 hours in a dangerous situation is work hazard, not just for you, but for anyone working around you. OSH A and United States code for safety and work hours prohibit 12 hour work days without compensation and also being a hazard to others.

 

Well again, who's choice was it to work in that field? Bonuses are usually something that you get if the company does well at the end of it's fiscal year or quarter, not a guarantee, no one ever works for a company with a guarantee for bonuses. And again, they can always quit, and if they happen to live in the US, they can always work with me, the company I'm presently contracted to is always hiring.

I don't mean to start an argument here so I apologize if it comes off as one, I'm just saying that compared to what these guys do, there are many who work a lot harder, get paid less, and appreciate the fact that they even have a job. If there's something illegal going on then I by all means support their right to sue the company and demand compensation, but when they signed that salary contract, they knew what they were in for and I don't pity them because of it, they probably still get paid more than those on minimum wage, and if they don't then they should suck it up and quit already.

I'm non-union, I do get full benefits, compensation, and I happen to be contracted to the safest company in the oil industry, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the discussion. We don't need a union, that's what OSHA is in place for. But that's because if OSHA didn't exist, then working in this industry would be suicide. Granted that doesn't mean that someone can't slip up once in a while while operating heavy machinery.

 

Yeah, well, my parents said it wasn't worth it but I really wanted to do it. I was still a minor and it didn't have a way to do it on my own, so they just left it at that. I ended up busting them for distributing alcohol to minors and that left me with a good feeling

 

Personally find it gross how you judge whether someone is working hard, and whether they deserve the money they make. I don't see how working in oil fields is harder or more deserving of money than anyone else, whether they be a banker, waste management, teacher, plumber, or game developer.

And as said, I find your matyrdom here very suspicious. Doesn't matter if you are union or not. Even if you work offshore, you are suppose to have two weeks off after a 2-3 week rest period after two weeks of 12 hour work shifts.

 

Then this makes you no better than the company you are allegedly railing against. Who do you think suffers when you steal a game? It's not the CEOs - it's the low-level and non-tenured employees.

 

Now your just distorting my overall point, that's not what I'm getting at, I'm sorry you see it that way. Yes I do believe that I work harder, physically, but these guys still have a duty to do, they probably work harder mentally and are more succumb to stress, but again, that's their choice and in comparison to sweat shop laborers and asian factory workers, their situation is a dream.

And lol, seems like your a little uneducated in the oil field, and that's OK, most people are, what your referring to are riggers, they work 2 weeks, live on a rig, and work 100 hours each week, then they have 2-3 weeks off, and repeat, I work 5-6 days/w most days 12 hours, I don't do workover rigs, I build the sites/tanks/pumps/plumbing etc. I don't operate them.

 

I think it is important to also remember that there are a lot of game companies that have a fun and healthy enviroment where the employees nurture and flourish. So the whole bashing of game industry you gave us in one of your link only show ONE man story, and should not be taken as a general idea how the industry works. The biggest companies with the biggest most selling titles probably have much more pressure to make good games and sequels, and there is probably occations where the workers are in a bad enviroment with thousands of employees and feel a bit left "outside". And you will probably find most happy workers on mid and small companies like Telltale games and such where each worker is allowed to use his imagination and the pressure is not so high. But then again you have *huge* IT companies like google and yahoo that have won awards of the best place to work so...

Everything Bruceongames talked about can be applied to pretty much any job there is. Everything gets boring and repetetive after a while. Many people work long days, especially in the IT industry. NOT just game developers. So the 12 hours work day is not uncommon. And like everyone have said here, you are not pushed in to this work are you? No, I think you will also find many who practically live at their office, because they like their work so much. Which again can be applied to anywhere to any job..

imo

 

What a good read. I spent the last 30 minutes reading the story as well as the comments. Funny thing is, I have a "Game Development" Firefox tab that I opened before this post and was considering it as a potential career later in life lol.

EDIT:

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those who commented claiming to be:
- Lawyers
- Competitors with job offers
- Union reps

was EA trying to figure out the names of those bashing the company in order to fire them all (they're posting Hotmail and Gmail accounts requesting personal information).

 

Or instead of losing the plot over this, "stop whining and deal with it" attitude versus, "but some standards should be enforced" argument, let's bring up a quote from the first page.

Yes. Very well said. It's part of the business. It isn't always fair. It can be -- to some decent extent -- managed and toned down if both parties had realistic expectations and a genuine desire to accomplish rather than struggle through this dynamic of mutual distrust. Just because something is standard, doesn't mean that it is right [insert some ugly references from the 20th century].

But oh. . . I endured some [insert gruesome work experience] for a [insert low pay] and so everyone else should endure the same and not complain. [Insert a few more anecdotal accounts about how bankers and analysts are somehow the hardest working class, what with all the bonuses and bankster perks. *Laughs*]

 

I work 100 hours a week for less than minimum wage, with no sick days or required time off. I also have no option to leave/quit my job.

So are you going to boycott the U.S. Government now?

 

This statement is just simply ridiculous. If you need me to point out why then this thread needs to be closed. You guys are turning a good cause to fight for into something that no one will care as much about as you because, you badger people and are condescending because their viewpoint is different. If you want people to join your cause convince them to. Don't attack them for not seeing eye to eye with you.

 

We've exhausted this topic.