GeForce Go 7600, 128/256 MB

Hey all,

I'm considering two Toshiba computers. Both are the same price, but the first has a Core Duo (2.0 ghz), 1 gig of ram, and a GeForce Go 7600 (256MB), while the second is a Core 2 Duo (1.83 Ghz), 2 gigs of ram and a GeForce Go 7600 (128 MB). The Core 2 Duo configuration also has 40 gigs more HD space.

My preference is to go with the Core 2 Duo, despite the drop in the video card memory. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this tradeoff; I'm not a hardcore gamer (ie not concerned with high settings), but I would like it to let me play most games of the shelf for ~2-3 years (let me know if this isn't realistic...).

Is the 7600 available in both of those configurations? I'm assuming that both are dedicated memory. Please let me know if going with 128 would produce a severe performance drop, and if it might be better to get less ram/older processor for the potentially increased performance.

 

The 7600 is a good card, and I am suspecting that you will not need the 256 MB version of it in order to play current to past games at decent settings. And from what I have heard, the MB does not always get used. It would probably not cause any drop at all unless your playing a good graphics game.

 

if you weren't very interested in settings in games and games themselves then the 128 mb version is okay, but since you want it for 2-3 years it might pay off to get a 256 version. i'm sure if you look around you could get both though.

 

I've read some comments in this forum stating that the 7600 128MB version is closer to the Radeon X1400 in performance (although some have been saying it should be 'twice' as fast). What's got me a little worried is that the individual in question referenced his friend with a Toshiba P100 (hence I'm wondering whether I'd get a similar story with this model).

Here are the two computers I was looking at:

Config 1

Config 2

The difficult part is that I've had a hard time finding a sub-$2000 laptop in the Canadian marketplace with decent video in it (also trying to stick with 15.4" screen). In fact, looking at the Toshiba Canada website, I don't think it gets better than a 256MB Geforce Go 7600.

(I wish I could buy custom configs from manufacturers, like you can in the US!)

Let me put the question like this, though:

Would a 256MB 7600 'futureproof' me significantly more than a 128MB card? And do you think it's worth forgoing (1gig ram + 40 gigs HD space + Core Duo 2 processor) to get that performance?

 

That's a tough one, and giving up all that for the extra 128MB of dedicated video memory may not be worth it. Ask yourself:
-Do I need that extra 40GB of hard drive space? Remember that the hard drive can be user-upgraded.
-Do I need the Core 2 Duo? Probably not. The T2500 is plenty fast; faster than the Core 2 Duo T5600 as a matter of fact. Not that the difference would be noticeable.

As for the RAM, that is very easy to upgrade and you should consider doing that yourself. 1GB should be fine for most tasks right now.

Are you considering any other machines besides the Toshiba A100? Take a look at the Compal HEL80 (Milestonepc.com), S96J (same site), and the HP nc8430. They should be available for under $2k Canadian and they come with 256MB video cards.

 

I would go with config 1 (256mb 7600). It has a more powerful CPU and from what I've read in these forums there is a significant drop-off between the 128 and 256 7600. Also, with the Core 2 Duo you'll only see about a 15% performance boost (mostly in power consumption) vs. the old Core Duo and that's not enough to make up the difference between 1.8ghz and 2.0ghz.

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-7600.2144.0.html

It says here that some of the 128 MB cards feature only a 64bit memory interface (it should generally be 128 for the card). This probably explains the junk performance of the 128MB card that has been talked about...

If this is the case, I might avoid 'config 2'. It's a shame, because I did want that Core Duo 2 (I know the performance difference is negligible, but I did want the 64-bit).

Thanks for the help, guys. Any other comments/advice is appreciated.

Chaz - I also appreciate you giving me those other notebook options. The Toshiba vendor I'm with is giving me a great financing option, hence my interest in going with one of them (I also wish I had a local vendor that delt competitively with Asus, because I know the good rep they seem to have). I might look into it some more.

 

Man seriously aviod the second option with the 7600 128mb. The difference between the cards in the two machines isnt just the memory size. The 128mb version in the P100 u mention is seriously crippled as its only a 64bit version. This isnt usually the case as this is the first machine iv seen that comes with a 128mb 7600 in 64bit form. A proper 128mb 7600 "128bit" inst too far behind the 256mb version and scored between 3100-3700 3D05 marks. The 7600 in the first P100 u mentioned gets well below 3000 marks even when overclocked!! Its performance isnt much better than a X1400 as someone said!! On top of that, that P100 may have 40gbs more but i think it may be only a 4200rpm HD, wheras the second P100 is defo 5400rpm. Personally id prefere the speed more than the extra 40Gbs..

Go for the P100 with the Core Duo and the proper "non-crippled" 7600 256mb Card!! I have it and it is a great card and when i overclocked it, it got a 3D Mark 05 score of over 4000 marks! Great gaming performance.

 

I called Toshiba about the 128MB card, and they assure me that it's a 128bit bus. Do I believe them? No, not really, because the sales rep checked NVidia's site (which avoids my question about this particular notebook model). I called their tech support as well, however. The guy I called told me it was 128bit, so hopefully that's trustworthy.

I've ordered the Core Duo 2 model, and I'm going to get it in ~2 weeks. The return is hassle-free for 30 days, so I'm going to get it and benchmark it myself (and check if it's 64/128 bit). At this point, it's a bit of an experiment for me. The 'older' P100 model seems to have the junk card, and I know there IS a 128MB version that's 128bit. So I'll see what I get, and let you guys know.

As a general question, though: The 128/64 bit thing is a huge difference (web comments suggest it cripples the card by about 1/3, at least according to 3DMark05). How do they get away with putting this in a computer and calling it a '7600'? I know they can underclock cards, but to me it's essentially product misrepresentation: especially given that the NVidia website has NO mention of this variant.

If you're curious about this as I am, check out this

Even some diagnostic/software packages confirm that there's a 64-bit version floating around.

 

>
>As for the RAM, that is very easy to upgrade and you should consider doing that yourself. 1GB should be fine for most tasks right now.

Actually, isn't RAM rather expensive? And aren't Toshiba known for having machines that are difficult for the user to do various kinds of upgrades?

Maybe someone could weigh this a bit more. Maybe a selection of game titles that might falter fairly often if you had anything less than an GF7600 256, or X1600.

 

I'm not sure about the hard drive pearbore, but the RAM should upgrade OK. The thing is, I'd hate to buy it and toss out 1gig worth of ram; it would come 512MB per slot, so if I wanted 2gigs I'd have to sell the original ram to someone. The larger problem is that I'd be unlikely to afford any upgrades in the future. (I'm kind of going against Chaz, and he makes the really good point that the video is fixed...so it is a difficult tradeoff).

I don't game frequently, but I wanted something better than a GMA950 that would at least let me enjoy games on semi-high settings for awhile. The 3d mark performance of the 128 seems all right relative to the 256, at least not enough for me to make the tradeoff.

One thing I'm wondering though, is whether you think games are likely to start "requiring" 256MB in the immediate future?

Thanks for all the help you guys have given me so far

 

Fishy said:
>Go for the P100 with the Core Duo and the proper "non-crippled" 7600 256mb Card!! I have it and it is a great card and when i overclocked it, it got a 3D Mark 05 score of over 4000 marks! Great gaming performance.

Actually, Brandrama never mentioned a P100. It was one of the respondents who had a P100 I believe.

Are there any circumstances beyond gaming where the quality of the graphics card would be a hindrance? Perhaps newer operating systems will have fresh demands we weren't aware of before.

Anyway, I checked Nvidia's website. And they only have a listing for GeForce 7600. And it lists memory: 256MB. I couldn't locate any other documentation. Nothing about 128.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_7600.html

 

http://www.nvidia.com/page/go_7600.html

That link doesn't show the memory, but it lists all of the 7000-series cards. The link you posted above is for the 7600GT, which is clocked faster (not the same as the regular 7600).

From what I know, you can get a 7600 in 128, 256, and 512. The 64-bit version is usually associated with the 128MB card, although a link I posted earlier said one model (Sony, I think?) had a 256MB card with a 64bit bus (I'm a little skeptical on that, though...).

All very confusing!

 

Like I said, I think 1GB is fine for now. You could just hold off upgrading, or even buy a single 1GB stick, remove one of the 512's, and have 1.5GB.

I'll put a list together of all the available cards (Go7600):
*All memory is dedicated, all buses are 128-bit unless otherwise indicated.
-Go7600 512MB
-Go7600 256MB
-Go7600 128MB
-Go7600 128MB (64-bit)

The GeForce Go7600 does not have TurboCache shared memory support, so everything you see should be dedicated.
The Go7600 is a difficult card to follow . . there are a lot of configurations, and on top of that, the clocks can have vast differences between manufacturers (one example would be the underclocked Compal HEL80).

 

Chaz, do you think it's likely that games will be requiring 256MB in the immediate future?

 

Some games already require 256MB; as a matter of fact, 3DMark06 requires 256MB of VRAM. That's not saying that the games/benchmarks will not run on a 128MB card, but there are a lot of benefits to having a card with 256MB of VRAM. I would recommend getting a 256MB card if at all possible.

 

Cheers Chaz. It can be pretty confusing trying to get used to all the different versions of just 1 card! Even the manufactures reps dont know anything most of the time!

Yeah i assumed the Toshiba the lad was talking about was a P100 as its the only one im aware of that has so many different versions of the 7600 (every version i beleive since its launch to date)
The older models had strictly the 128bit 7600's and its only the new line up that includes the 64bit version in the base model. The base model P100 use to have the GMA 950 with the T2300 core Duo....It was then replaced with the previous one which has the T5500 and 7600 128 "64bit" for pretty much the same price! Some bargin i think!! Even though you only get the 64bit 7600.
The older P100's had the 7600 256mb (proper 128bit card) and are now being replaced with the 7600 512mb/ 7900 512mb.

One thing I dont agree with is how Toshiba seriously underclock the Gpu's going into their laptops (apart from their beloved Qosmio range). At least you are able to bring the clocks up to what they SHOULD be at!

 

Thanks Chaz, Fishy.

I feel a little silly for prolonging this painful discussion, but if I stick with the Core 2 Duo one, I think I can get it for $150 less from the buyer.

I'm also concerned about 64-bit computing (not that it's going to arrive overnight), but I plan on using this computer for maybe three years.

Given the $ savings, and not having to forgo all the other components, is it still a good idea to go with the 256? I'm really belaboring the point here, and I'm going to have to accept a tradeoff.

But I'm wondering, greater performance of the 256MB aside, whether the 256 would substantially prolongue the notebook's lifespan in playing games (since I know the GPU design itself is more important than the memory...).

If 'yes', then I'll go to the 256 without wasting any more time (or your time...haha), but otherwise I can handle a performance hit, given all of the other considerations. (Like I said, I'm not a 'hardcore' gamer).

 

Well for starters, the 7600 in the Core2 Duo laptop will only be in the same league as the 7400/X1400.
The Core 2 laptop's only real advantage is that the processor is 64bit, while the Core Duo laptop u mentioned is a more superior machine overall minus the 32bit deficiency.
As you arent a serious gamer, the Core2 Duo laptop is more than good enough for now but will be pretty poor for new games in 2-3years...BUT so too will the Core Duo laptop be considered very dated by then as well.

I think in 3 years time, BOTH machines will be considered dated as the rate of advancment in computers is astonishing. I chose not to wait for the Core 2 Duo and went for my current laptop as i know Vista will run on mine just fine.

And theres one other thing u should know. The "PERFORMANCE" difference between the Core2 and the Core Duo is marginal (less than 10%). The ONLY REAL benefit is the 64bit advantage!

So if you REALLY ARENT a gamer, go for the Core 2 machine as you may find a better gain with a 64bit processor
BUT
If you want a laptop that will be able to manage with new titles for as long as possible, go for the Core Duo laptop.

Its up to you..

 

Yeah...

I'm not weighing the Core Duo 2 being faster; in fact, I think the original Core Duo would be quicker since it's 2.0 versus 1.83 ghz. I'm treating other stuff like battery consumption as comparable. It's only the ability to do 64-bit processing I'm considering, plus the fact that it's $150 less for the Core 2 laptop (oddly enough), and I get 1 gig more ram and 40 gigs more HD space to boot. Those are a lot of advantages to dump just to get the 256MB card.

I would only do so if the 256 card would give me more longevity. I exspect (at the end of three years) for the notebook to be completely junked, and I'm trying to keep future gaming expectations reasonable (i.e. I don't expect it to last three years!). But I'm wondering whether 256 will keep me afloat substantially longer.

(I should also add that I must sound crazy, committing to one of these options. Believe me - I've been researching like mad. I might be best to hold out another month though, if this tradeoff becomes too bitter.)

 

That would be correct. Although the Core 2 Duo is faster than the Core Duo at the same clockspeed, a higher-clocked Core Duo is still going to outperform a lower-clocked Core 2 Duo. I highly doubt you would be able to tell the difference between the two.

 

No Brandrama, you're not prolonging the discussion. The topic just feels contrained with the one aspect about the card.

There are many fine notebooks out there. But sometimes when you're outsides the United States, some sorts of products seem difficult to import. Talking generally with technology.

Toshiba definitely has tradeoffs, since its so common. Is sold as final complete products mostly. Though I guess there is some customization possible, I'm not too familiar with. And, you can't go much lower cost technology brands.

With some packaged products, there are so many variations and deals, it can be difficult to judge how the minor odds and bits add up, if here is a better deal than there.

So it's nicer ordering away for a customized product, with the freshest of components.
To be sure that you can select everything all to your hopes, it just takes more time to inform yourself and be assured that you can be very satisfied and comfortable with the result.

If you have other considerations, it's no problem to expand discussions. You don't have to feel restricted by any particular models you consider at the moment.