Geforce 8600M GT ddr2 vs. ddr3

Until recently, I've just been a reader on this forum, and let me say that the nice folks here have provided me with a lot of valuable information and tips, for which I'd like to say thank you, and with that also give everybody a big hello!

And now, on to the topic at hand! I own a Dell Inspiron 1520, and the one problem that's always been plaguing my mind up till now was the difference between a ddr2 and ddr3 graphics card. Many people seem to think it's a big deal with significant performance boosts. I decided to do some of my own research

I have found some direct game comparisons between the Acer 5920G which has ddr2, and the Asus g1s which has ddr3. Now, there are a total of 4 models of the Acer 5920G already out today, but the comparison was done with the 5920G-302G16N, which has 256mb of memory just like the g1s, except the memory in the Acer is ddr2 of course.

Now I must warn you that the website is in German: http://www.notebookjournal.de/tests/262
But you will not need to understand any German in order to navigate through the pages of the test and view the FPS counts on the comparison charts.

If you look it over, you will notice that the ddr3 memory does often have advantages when it comes to a game's max FPS, but when it comes to average, the difference is only 1-2 frames(only in DiRT was the avg FPS different by 4 frames), and sometimes the g1s is even beaten by the Acer. And the average FPS is exactly what matters. After all, you want a constantly smooth performance, yes?

The problem is that too many people rely on benchmarks such as 3dMark to judge the performance of a graphics card. While it's true that the same model of graphics card with ddr3 memory will score up to 1000 more 3dMark points than its ddr2 sister, the performance impact within games is so small, it is almost negligible.. About the same as when you compare a 8600M GT with 256 megs to one with 512 megs.

I don't by any means claim expertise in the field of graphics cards, nor can I guarantee that all the data on this site is 100% accurate or correct.. But it is a reputable European notebook review site, so I believe what they are saying to be true.

My personal conclusion on the question: Is it worth spending $500 more to get a gfx card with ddr3 memory? Absolutely not, the marginal 2 fps average improvement doesn't justify such a price.. Unless high 3dMark scores are what you're after, I'd go with the ddr2, at least until ddr3 is regularly offered in notebooks that aren't so expensive/overpriced.

 

As a 5920G-302G16N owner ,I can say it never disappoint me when playing games @ 1280x800 .(Except crysis )

 

I think there were several thread like these already but it is good that you come with a different approach on it althoug i would not agree that difference is so small... i would say it is at least 10'% better faster in any 3d intensive games...

 

good research

 

Well I might agree with you if it weren't for several factors regarding that review:

1. Its in German, while this isn't a flaw in itself being from a necessarily non-credible source definitely reduces the impact of the results.

2. They list the two machines being compared but don't provide specs, so within five seconds of reading this review I have already decided that this will not be useful in comparing the DDR2 & DDR3 versions of the 8600M GT.

3. Horrid, horrid, HORRID game choices, many of those games very few play, the only game I have played on a constant basis in that review is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. but in all honesty who would use that game for benchmarking? It is one of the most unoptimized and regrettably unfinished games released recently. Don't get the wrong impression though, I enjoyed my experience with S.T.A.L.K.E.R. but it should never be used as a comparison between computers. I'm looking forward to its prequel which will hopefully not be rushed and be released as a finished product...

With that being said, there is one point you made I will agree with. Paying anything over $100.00 for an upgrade from a 8600M GT DDR2 to DDR3 is a complete waste of money. On average the tradeoff will gain you 10-20% extra FPS, but that varies between different games due to different rendering and physic engines. I personally never use 3DMark 06 because I refuse to rely on a benchmarking utility to measure performance.

 

based on what?

 

Based on various reviews and comparisons across the internet, as I mentioned above though it varies as to what game you are using as a comparison and the engine it uses.

The average performance increase is anywhere from 10-20%~

 

ok, i'll take a look at a couple then

 

Thanks for the post Garan. At least you took the liberty to investigate and it is always good to hear other's results from their work (+1 rep for you!).

I agree 100%. I toiled over it for a bit when I was getting my Vostro. But now I am very happy with how it performs. The 8600m GPU overclocks nicely, as does the DDR2 memory. It greatly narros the gap between DDR2 and DDR3 performance, even though the DDR3 can overclock even more. In the end, they both have the same GPU, and the faster memory definitely helps, but not completely necessary.

 

Okay, so let us go over your points 1 by 1.

1. Being German certainly doesn't make it a non-credible source. It only makes it a non credible source for the reader who doesn't understand it. I'm sorry if the lack of my google skills is the problem here, but it's the only site I could find with a good review and comparison between the two.

2. The specs are not listed because this is not really a review, it's a comparison test between the two, and that's all it's meant to be. The specs for both machines are listed separately on their respective review pages which can be found here: 5920G and g1s
Of course, these are also in German, but there's nothing I can do against that. Still, you should be able to easily figure out what is what when it comes to specs. The memory type of the cards isn't listed, but that's the way MANY review sites do things, sadly. Still, there is no g1s that has a ddr2 gfx card in it.. You can do your own google research on that, and you'll see it's true. just as there is no acer 5920G that has a ddr3 card.

3. Your reasoning here is quite far out of tact. Just because you don't like the listed games doesn't make them horrible choices for reviewing and benchmarking. DiRT is a popular and successful game, used in a lot of benchmarks as far as I know. Gothic 3 isn't quite as popular, but is still great for pushing your card to the limit, because even though it's over a year old, the graphic coding in it is so bad, it even makes the 8800 GTX ultra try hard to maintain smooth performance at its max settings. And this is a lot more realistic benchmark, because a lot of games out there today are NOT fully optimized, and will make your GPU struggle because of it. Benchmarking only optimized games is just for bragging rights, benchmarking badly coded games as well adds realism to the results, giving a better and more truthful picture to what you should expect in less than perfect conditions. Let's face it, 99% people out there will want to play a good game even if its 3d programming isnt optimized.

Thus far, all you have done is said that my information has little value, yet you did not provide any links and sources to back your own claims at all. When you provide some links which say that these games are horrible for benchmarking and to those other reviews on the net which you claim to in a further post, then I will believe you. But until you do this, your words hold even less credit than the German website in question. No disrespect intended, I am just stating facts.

In the end, we do indeed agree on the final fact. That it's not worth paying an obscene amount of money for that 10-20% boost when the game will not perform completely smoothly on the DDR3 to begin with. The differences here are based on percentage. This means that the lower the FPS to begin with, the less difference you will notice.

The Asus g1s on average costs $700 more than the Acer Aspire 5920G-302G16N, while offering only marginally better gaming performance. Therefore I consider it not worth paying such a price if all you're after is that ddr3 graphics memory.

Also remember that this thread wasn't started with an intention to compare ddr2 vs ddr3 to an extremely detailed and technical level. The purpose of this thread is to inform the average user such as myself that ddr3 really isn't worth the hassle unless you can get it in a laptop that's in the same price range. But if you still want to argue your points, then please provide some sources to back your data.

 

lol did you skip 5th grade?
j/k

But if you do the math, say you are getting 20fps on the ddr2, 10% of 20 is 2, so the ddr3 will give 22fps. So the difference IS that small.

 

I didn't take offense at all. =)

1. I actually am somewhat fluent in German, what I don't completely understand a close friend does who is bilingual. The reason I don't consider it a credible source is that, it being German it has not established itself as a reliable source. (For example, what other reviews etc. that have been 100% accurate have been linked to this site before on NBR?) Also, your Google skills aren't to blame either. Finding objective comparisons in a controlled environment is extremely difficult, often impossible.

2. As far as the specifications, my concern is that almost every laptop is unique. Going off a base configuration is often inaccurate due to the plethora of upgrades people seek to do. Such as third party RAM, a faster HD etc. Thats not even taking the dive into custom to order configurations...

3. My problem with using unoptimized and potentially buggy games is it tends to skew the results. Thats like saying S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a good game to review by because it runs better on ATI Graphic Cards as opposed to Nvidia which it does. The best way to compare results is to use a highly demanding game that is optimized and relatively bug free, with no downsides that skew results such as favoritism to one brands hardware. (Crossing fingers that Crysis will fill this void for months to come)

I didn't intend to imply that the information you provided had little value, I definitely appreciated the read and the effort. I do not believe I need to provide links to backup my claims that the GeForce 8600M GT DDR3 is 10%-20%~ faster than the DDR2 version. Many comparisons have been done on NBR as well as countless amounts of fraps'd frames with identical configurations except for the graphics card. (Normally when someone asks which is better, 6-7 well known people including mods will respond with that answer by default)

However when comparing an Asus to an Acer, specifically the G1S it is an unfair comparison. Asus have always been known as a brand for quality, whereas Acer are more known for their great deals on laptops. I'm also pretty sure the G1S comes with a no dead pixel guarantee by default if you order it from a reputable website where you can customize it. Not to mention it comes standard with a two year warranty. The Acer only comes with a one year warranty correct?

I actually just recently considered buying the Asus G1S, I ended up going with the ThinkPad T61P because it had identical specifications for an all around for a cheaper price, in addition to a three year warranty rather than a two.

The key fact to remember when comparing Asus to Acer in terms of price is the quality and durability of the overall build. This is not to say Acers are poorly built, but Asus have established themselves as a brand with very high quality assurance.

 

Do you think 10%-20% increase worth $500...lol You can get G1S like performance after you OC your DDR2 card.

Aspire 5920 is good choice for person who want best notebook for the best price. Both have 5400Rpm HDD .You can upgrade your cpu & HDD to get 1-2 extra frames(I notice this after i upgrade my 5920,It costs you extra $400,but not much like G1S).
Remember 5920 VGA is MXM2.0 type & upgradable

 

I mentioned in an earlier post I wouldn't pay more than $100 for an upgrade from DDR2 to DDR3. I would however consider paying 500 to upgrade from an Acer to an Asus, build quality, customer service etc.

 

Remember 5920 VGA is MXM2.0 type & upgradable

For example here in Russia we don't have shops wich sell laptop videocards. May be you can give me some webshops with such inventory?)

 

You are correct, and I do agree with you on many of these points. Including the fact that Asus is a good brand. I believe all the stuff they make is good. Heck, I own their router, and it's the only one that worked for me without dropping connection all the time. Still, I personally am not a fan of comapnies that overcharge for their laptops just because they are "established". But in the end, it's the consumer's choice what they are going to buy. Nobody points a gun at your head and tells you what you must buy, so yeah. ^^
As for warranty, most companies offer you the chance to buy extra without too much additional cost.. I'm not sure if Acer does, I never verified this.

1. This is very true.. I can find plenty of comparsions with 3dMark results and such, but none other that compares actual games between ddr2 and ddr3 of various cards. As for why no site links to notebookjournal.de. That would again most likely be because it's in German.. And the great majority of review sites are English.

2. I realize, and it was my bad that I forgot to provide the specs. I fixed that though.

3. And yes, you're right about the graphic card benches when it comes to testing between the brands.. But this is was a test of 2 nearly identical cards, the only difference being that of the memory. So if the game is crappy and badly programed, it will hit both the cards. Thus by my logic, the results should not be skewed either way for the purpose of this test.

 

i said at least 10 % before acting like you are "cool" do your math yourself n00b

22 > 20 9,1 %

 

i think he was referring to ur grammar, perhaps?! lol

 

.....

 

my bad, i just read the first half of his post....lol my apologies

 

It is okay we all do mistakes rarely

 

happens to my quite a lot, frankly! lol

 

Than you need to stop drinking beer that much(avatar pic)

 

Guys, is there any shops that sell mobile video cards?)