HP Envy 17 vs Macbook Pro 17 gaming performance

Is it true that there is a huge difference in gaming between the macbook pro and hp envy 17? (note: the macbook runs through bootcamp/parallels, so automatically the macbook is @ a disadvantage)

Would the FPS between identical games played on both these notebooks be significantly difference(+/- 10 fps)?

thanks.

 

Envy is way cheaper and has a much better GPU.
ATI Mobility Radeon HD5850 vs nVidia GT330M.

Yes, games played will have a huge difference in fps.
Crysis on high will get double FPS on the 5850.

 

the envy will toast the macbook.. way better gaming performance and components and of course , cheaper... just less battery life but 2-3 hours with windows isn't bad is it? Also the 5850 should give u 3 times the FPS of macbook and allow you to play games on max full HD res unlike macbook with high details.

 

Any chance that apple might update there GPUs?

 

You could just install the Mac OS on the Envy... The Envy is way better in terms of hardware.

 

With Steam now available on OSX, I'm sure we'll see more aggressive updates from here on out.

 

yeah but not as aggressive as good budget Windows gaming laptops.

 

the macbooks just look VERY original. primarily, that is why I'm leaning over to the mac, regardless of the cost or performance compared to other notebooks.

steve jobs is great.

 

well if that's what you want, then go for macbook. Just don't be disappointed when it can't handle a lot of games, including any future game at decent settings.

 

It's inevitable. Graphics cards advance at a breakneck pace. I bet the next one used will be the GT425 or if they've improved the MBP thermals, maybe the GT435. But you have to remember that gaming wasn't what was intended with Apple's MBP line. I can cook breakfast on mine after playing Borderlands or Spore in Windows. They get HOTT.

 

Macbooks are not even in the same league. They have middle-of-the-road parts designed for energy efficiency. The macbook is an efficiency laptop designed to run MacOS that can moonlight as a gaming rig with lower FPS/details at lower resolutions.

(As far as gaming performance goes, the Envy is a Porsche, the Macbook a stock Honda Civic that somehow costs more.)

The Envy is made with top-of-the-line GPU and higher-end components designed for performance and gaming. The Envy is a performance machine made to run games and anything else save MacOS and its reasonably efficient as well.

The price differential (despite the hardware gulf) is the premium you pay for the apple logo and MacOS.

This has nothing to do with what OS can do what... its about the marketing and hardware choices Apple has made about their computers and OS not being made for gaming where Microsoft and HP have embraced gamers.

Since this is a marketing choice that Apple has maintained for some time, I doubt Apple's policy will change anytime in the near future.

 

Though I have always loved all my Apple laptops I have owned what they say is indeed true.

If I were in your shoes and looks is all that has you leaning to Apple, I would get the HP. However, if it is the MacOS which you are truely after then go for it.

In my case I have chosen to do a little of both, my Macbook meets all my Apple media needs and will play some games but it gets toasty so I try not too for long. While my ASUS gaming notebook has never let me down in terms of gaming performance and it was a refurb and was $200 cheaper than my Macbook.

P.S. My friends MBP with 9600m GT i've watched him play a pretty fluid game of World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2 at respectable settings. So decent gaming is not out of the question.

 

mbps card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M - Notebookcheck.net Tech

envys card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850 - Notebookcheck.net Tech

There is a huge difference yes, but it seems as if the MBB can play any game with good fps @ medium settings.

 

Even GT435M won't change much as those are the medium class cards competing against M5730/50. M5850 is in the same league with GT450M.

As H.A.L said, - you can probably use the MBP's surface as a frying pan during gaming. Even if the card can handle most games at medium details, you have to think about the cooling too, - will the system itself handle gaming?

I'm not even sure if Envy can live up to the task of hardcore gaming - its cooling is still not perfect. You need a true gaming rig like Clevo and AW (and a few exceptions like AsusG73JW, Lenovo W701, etc) that can handle long gaming sessions.

 

Sorry, I did not take into account the heating issues. I thought the envy would heat up as much as the mac.

I have strongly considered the w700ds and I am thinking, rather then invest in something like the envy (plastic box) I rather invest MORE money into a macbook and a w700ds.

Would that be overkillÉ

I know many people who have more than 1 laptop, whos use them all frequently.

 

Lol I can say with 100% certainty that they will. But don't expect to ever get a gaming grade gpu. They will always use mainstream or thin and light designated gpus.

If games matter, get a gaming windows pc and iPad. That's the best if both worlds. Probably cheaper too.

Heck refurb g73gh was $999 earlier today on tigerdirect.

 

and while you're at it, don't forget to buy a wheelbarrow to carry your back breaking 8-12 lb alienware or asus gaming laptop

 

hit the gym for a few weeks and that alienware will turn into a feather.

 

Good one, lol
Seriously, if 6kg is an overkill and even orthopedic backpacks don't do the trick, - one can always find a compromise half way.
For example, I'm using the HP 8740w for both work and gaming. It's ~4KG, and given the power packed inside (840QM+M7820/M5870), it can be considered light and thin (<4cm). I bring it to work by feet, on a daily basis and don't even feel the weight.

@Lewdvig,
Hey, Bro! Long time no see. I notice you got a new AW! How's the little alien brother doing? Do you like it more?


BTW, G73JW is the new hotness. Its cooling looks to be much better and also 460M has some OC'ing potential.
I wouldn't go back to the overheating GH at this point. Besides, the JW is not much more expensive.

@Gochi,
W701ds looks very impressive. It's expensive though and doesn't have an IPS screen option (only HP Elitebooks 8540w/8740w have it)

 

Apple is seriously making me upset. At first, I thought the mac was overpriced relative to the envy, but if you compare it to any other high end 17`notebook, it is grossly overpriced.

Why doesn`t apple just include a better gpu like the fx 2800m found in lenovo.

 

Apple is basically a marketing company. Release 1 great product and market the hell out of it. Rinse and repeat.

Why upgrade the GPU when countless folks don't even care about it? Why would they want to please a few when they can hike prices and please their devotees into worshiping them with more money?

There are some things that Apple does well, but if you want the power and performance at a reasonable price, stay the hell away from Apple.

Do I hate Apple? No. Would I ever buy their products? No. Do I have an iPod? Yes. It was free.

 

Because anything more powerful in it's current enclosure, would be able to reach aluminum melting temperatures.

 

If that is back breaking, that's really sad

Not really. The GPU Apple have been using may be newer architecture, GT216 based, but doesn't mean it's better. For example, my roommate bought his MacBook Pro 13" for $1,800 and it still uses a Core 2 Duo and the 320M is a chipset graphics which still gets destroyed by G92 9600M, which Apple has used in the past. Newer, but a downgrade.

The 17" uses a 330M, which is barely better than a 9600M... And it uses DDR3, not even GDDR3. The stream processors are 1D, the HD5870M in G73jh is 5D. Even the old HD3650M was 5 dimensional. So comparing a 330M to it's desktop based G200 architecture is still not comparable. This awesomeness costs $2,400 starting based priced and the best i7 you can get is... a dual core.

Why should Apple do this? Every MacBook Pro I've used so far has fans spinning audibly loud in comparison to any notebook even when on a website with a lot of flash. Yes web browsing is taxing... It's pathetic. On a 4 year old 15" MacBook Pro I used (not mine, but was using), overheated from flash video and shut down... I was just like ? Friend said, yeah it happens, don't watch videos on it please.

Again why should Apple do this? By far the most popular single notebook model on my school campus is a MacBook Pro. Every student here paid around $1,800 for 13" and over $2000 for 15" and close to $3,000 for their 17". I haven't seen ANYONE do anything on the MacBook Pro any more intensive than looking at FaceBook. That's the most intensive work I've seen so far, oh I forgot watching Gossip Girl, even the dudes.

Clearly the demographic for Apple MacBook Pro are not video gamers or even those who need a DTR (Desktop Replacement) for intensive work. Maybe some photo work?

And reiterate, it still sells like hotcakes on school campuses. There is no reason for Apple to upgrade a MacBook Pro for another 10 years probably. Clearly a lot of people who buy them (not saying all), do not know what is in them or even what they are buying. It's an Apple, it's pretty and it's cool to have a thin pretty thing.

 

Last time I checked, the Envy has an aluminum frame, just like the Macbook Pro.

 

Because the 2800m is already 3x GPU generations old (based on the 9800m). Also, it's a workstation GPU found on business laptops, not on multimedia/consumer laptops like the Macbook. The better question to ask is why it doesn't have at least a 350m or a m5650, but I think everybody else already answered that. Macbooks aren't made for gaming. They're made for people who have more money than common sense, and buy a laptop for looks instead of functionality.

 

Why do people keep using "mac" and "gaming" in the same sentence?

 

Yes, the GPU is a newer architecture, and yes it's core is GT216, and YES it does make it better. The GT216 core may not be noticeably different in gaming performance, but it consumes less power, puts off less heat, and has a smaller footprint on the MoBo. 9600m GT = 65NM while the GT216 = 40NM. It's just a more efficient core. And you're comparing Dedicated Discrete 9600m against a Chipset Integrated 320m. No matter how you slice it, dedicated is going to win, but 9400m vs. 320m is a big upgrade. Nvidia's 320m is about the best integrated graphics money can buy. Now GT330m vs 9600mGT.... that one might not yield tell-tale signs of improvement visually, but it is an improvement. Also, you can't compare Nvidia's 1D shaders against AMD's 5D shaders... the architectures are completely different.

 

Ruckus just to clarify, you mentioned the 9600m GT destroying the 320M which was used in the current 13" MBP(yes 9600M beats it good). But the 13" MBP's never had a 9600M GT to begin with, they have only ever been integrated. Before the 320M the 13's had 9400M (also integrated). Only the 15" and 17" models ever had the 9600M card. So no downgrade was done to the 13" MBP model from 9600M to 320M.

 

That's weird, I thought most professionals used macs to edit video etc. stuff like that, so I thought it might be a good machine to game on.

This link may not be very reliable, but at least the majority of the people recommend apple for video editing: Best laptop for video editing

I thought video editing and gaming were similar in more than one way. Nevertheless, I plan to do a bit of video editing so apple might be the better option, even though its not a good choice for gaming.

For those interested, I am considering the w700ds or the macbook pro. I had considered the w700ds prior to posting here, but I thought it was more of a business laptop, which it clearly is not due to its great video card. That begs another question, do business people even need the power of a quadro fx2800m? seems like over kill to me.

Ultimately, I am ecstatic about the macbooks appearance, portability, OS, simplicity and uniqueness, COMPARED to the w700ds. On the other hand, although money is not a concern, there is still difference in price which can only be justified by a users preference. The w700ds is also heavier, thick, rather ugly? but does have a dual screen which the price reflects.

Has anybody used both the macbook pro and the w700ds?

Thanks all. I appreciate all your comments, especially the ones that go into detail re: video cards. They are fascinating but at the same time hysterical, because I realize how limited my computer knowledge truly is.

 

A lot of them do. Just not Macbooks. For a professional editor or anyone making a living doing video editing might have a Macbook Pro as a compliment to the 4/8/12 core MacPro desktop. Photographers like the MacBooks and could actually use one as a main machine, as that profession doesn't require the horsepower that video editing does.

For gamers: Do not consider a Macbook or MacBook Pro for gaming. You're much better off buying a gaming notebook such as an Alienware or Sager or such...

 

It's because of some exclusive video editing software that's available in mac. There are alternative softwares available in windows as well but some people are used to using the mac software hence their comments. A windows laptop with quad core i7 and cuda is definitely of higher performance than a macbook in terms of video editing.

Moreover, video editing is more about the CPU, and macbook's cpu isn't that bad. But gaming is all about the GPU, and macbook's gpu is simply horrendous.

fx2800 is not that great, it's built on 9800M which is like decades old...

 

very true, apps such as MAYA and other pro apps that support CUDA/STREAM/ optimized OpenGL drivers are monumentally faster on a better GPU and many which can take advantage of a workstation GPU are monumentally faster again. fo rmany of the A/V editors I know unless they NEED garage band or Final Cut/ FC pro they are even going Win 7 based just because of the frames per second rendered.

just to dredge up an old post of mine again

http://forum.notebookreview.com/wha...way-go-aerospace-engineering.html#post6403899

which is one reason my wife gave up her upgrade to a Mac Pro 12 core in favor of a custom Server 2008 box ..... multiple FirePro GPU's

not decades but sure an obsolete card by todays standards

 

As you may have noticed in the link you provided, those posts are from 2006. At that time, buying a Mac plus Final Cut Pro was one of the cheapest solutions for video editing, and since FCP is owned by Apple, it will never be available for Windows. FCP is still a good option today if you decide to buy a MBP, as it is relatively cheap to buy a license compared with Avid Media Composer, for example, and FCP is still used by many pros.

However, these days, the cost for a Windows desktop or laptop with powerful CPU and lots of RAM is so much lower than the cost for a comparable Mac, and unfortunately, the latest Macs lack some of the customizable options that are useful for video editing. Also, if you plan to create blu-ray content I would suggest to stick with a Windows laptop. In the past, we've had difficulty getting certain blu-ray authoring apps to function properly in Windows bootcamp on our Macs.

 

dude you are kidding right?
envy will tear macbook to pieces.Mob 5850 s a great gpu with great performance.Also asthetics of mbp and envy are same.I find no reason why would you want macbook.

 

also your macbook will burn playing your games... really OP , get an envy17...

 

Whats with all the Alienware bashing, I think some push ups are in order.
Dude its about 12lbs. Unless you plan on lugging it around all day please tell me you can handle picking up and moving 12lbs, from point A to point B.


What are you going to do when/if you haves pets/kids and you can't handle 12lbs?

 

12lbs isn't that heavy in general, but for a laptop it's a lot. I mean, laptops over 8lbs aren't usually considered very portable.

 

I'd only consider buying the m11x- the other models are to heavy/bulky.

I really don't like hp much due to the quality of there products. I have owned several HP laptops and a tablet pc and there was always an issue. I have read good things about apples quality which is why I am strongly considering it.

I pretty much agree, after reading posts and checking out info about apples processor/gpu, that the MBP is not that great. However, I have two gaming consoles for serious gaming, but I would like to at least play a couple of games on the mac. I am not a hardcore gamer nor do I plan to become one in the near future.

No offense to HP owners, but it seems as if the Envy is just a laptop whereas the macbook seems like a unique and modern version of mobile computing, albeit with a couple of flaws and a hefty price tag.

Logically, I would purchase the envy, because it is a better machine in terms of specs, but the macbook has many tangibles. I think I have made my decision, and will probably be going with the MBB Pro 17", although if quad-core processors are on the horizon I will probably wait.

Thanks guys, your comments were much appreciated.

 

Wait until after the Apple Media Event on the 20th. They may refresh the Macbook's options a little. Major changes aren't likely, but _could_ happen.