How will "Next Gen" games affect PC players?

Next-gen consoles will affect PC gamers even less than the PS3 and Xbox 360 affected PC gaming at their time.
That's because the Cell CPU, even though exotic and hard to program, was much more powerful than the PC x86 counterparts at the time.
Now?
PS4 and Xbox 720 will use x86 arch's, and even if it's the highest end at the moment of launch, it will only take 1 generation (6 months to a year) for it to become obsolete.
Also, one thing available on PC's that's not really available on consoles (except through resolution) is SCALING.
Those nice little sliders, checkboxes and options in the menus that allow you to modify that game to fit your sistem.

That being said, the games will be limited to a very small quantity of available ram (even though very fast), and will be further held back by this.
I work in a game studio, and I can guarantee that no matter the tech available, we will always be able to offer more than the system can handle.
No matter how strong the current hardware is, we downsize polygon counts, downscale texture sizes, disable stressful effects and try to fit within the specs, because it's much harder to make good graphics fit inside a hardware spec than it is to make good graphics.

While the CPU and GPU in these consoles is mostly up to current specs, the amount of available RAM will absolutely limit the amount of detail games can offer, no matter how fast it is. And 4GB split between CPU, GPU and OS, is just sad.

 

You make some great points, sangemaru; however, I don't think there will be any sliders for better A.I. simulation, interactive world, dynamic events, number of actors on screen, nonlinear maps, etc. Much more than graphics, these are the areas where console hardware has been holding back developers for the last several years, because the games are fundamentally designed around these limitations of the platform with the least amount of memory and weakest CPU.

 

It's not outside the realm of possibility at all that a 7970m-like (or better) chip will be used, especially considering AMD has likely improved their fab process.

360 and PS3 most definitely had flagship cards when released: 360's GPU was akin to a 1900 XT (with some unified architecture) and PS3's a 7800 GTX, both of which were $450+ cards at the time.

Looking at a chip's current price is not indicative of what will be included in 720 and PS4. MSFT and SNE will be subsidizing these machines significantly. How much, we don't know. But if history is a predictor, they will be taking a 40-50% loss on hardware costs at launch on each console -- some of this loss will be GPU costs. Moreover, the contracts with AMD for these GPUs are not based on current fab costs, but projected costs over the life of the GPU which will drop significantly as fab process continues to improve and die sizes are redesigned or shrunk -- AMD and SNE will not be paying current street price for Pitcairn chips (or whatever the chip ends up being).

 

everyone goes on about how consoles are far more optimized than pc's - sure they are they know what they coding for but have look at these videos a gtx 7800 runs skyrim and bf3 just as well as the consoles lol ! there was one with farcry 3 as well but cant find it now ! optimized my
The Myth of Console Optimization - Battlefield 3 - YouTube
The Myth of Console Optimization - 6 years old PC - YouTube
FPS TEST 7800GTX on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - YouTube
where is the optimization?? there is non they just look as good as on pc cards from the same year ! just cause the graphics are better than when consoles were 1st released, doesn't mean the gpu and cpu can pump out more stuff then it can handle ! this gen will be no different my gtx 680 will handle any game the next gen can pump out and then sum !

 

I don't follow. Are you saying that Xbox or PS3 only get 20-25 FPS on BF3? Xbox and PS3 are set to run at 30fps: Battlefield 3 Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 Frame-Rate Tests - YouTube

The point is that most games are developed with console in mind first, so it gets optimized and developed for consoles and ported to PC later, which means they aren't coded specifically for PC. Try to play Far Cry3 or Sleeping Dogs or Crysis 2 or 3 on a 7800 GTX at 1280x720. Forget it. The IGP HD 4000 is more powerful than the 7800 GTX and can barely manage most newer games. Of course you don't need a top end GPU to play most newer games at low detail and 720p if that's fine with you.

That being said it sounds like the "next gen" consoles will be developed with 2013 PC GPU technology, and not even top end at that. So I don't think most higher end PC's will have any issue keeping up with console games ported to PC for the next 2-3 years.

 

I think most people will be pretty bummed with the specs when they get officially released. Right now they are going off dev kit specs what are usually way faster then the systems.

Lets see MS took a hard hit with the 360 since they had to fix and replace so many. Sell at a loss then have to repair a large % of them i don't think they will do that again. Then add up to the money MS is out on Windows 8 flopping hard

Sony couldn't sell any PS3's still a huge price drop and the addition of the slim. Taking a loss some units had problems but their huge loss was with the psp vita aka todays virtual boy.



Personally i think that the days of the power race is over. PC's won. Sony and MS know they cant fight PC's and they cant fight the steambox when it comes out in terms of specs and that valve is packing some titles that could kill off the other 2. Wii u i see living due to the fact they now have exclusive's for some great games and the wii u is something totally diff from what the others were trying.


Valve even said the biggest threat was apple. not sony and microsoft and that was a bold statement but if valve plays their cards right it will kill off those two pretty fast.


People need to realize that its not about power. Power means nothing if your system sucks as much energy as your fridge like the first ps3 or burns its self up after a month like the first few 360's. Im more concerned about cooling and component layout both of what MS and Sony proved they suck at and the r&d for that is some guy in a shed with $5. If i was them i would contact some motherboard companies about laying out a mainboard and optimizing it for interference and thermal effects.

Cooling on my Wii u is great for using such a small fan. But i will say they should of did a better job on the wifi and other netowrking things since the wifi is pretty slow and the range is so so at best. And for the video streaming the range is pretty bad through wall's. But then again in this system you are dealing with a ton of wireless so they will affect eachouther but i just feel the range could of been better.

 

All I have to say is that someone better keep the Kinect-like interface. I think it's great, better than any of the others because no controllers are required, makes for great interaction with other players, and gets you up and moving. Of course that's for select game titles only, I wouldn't want it for Battlefield 4 or anything, but for basic entertainment titles, it works great.

Steam box looks like a good idea though. I hope it's successful.

Although Gabe Newell will need to lose about 100 lbs to make sure he's alive for at least another 20 years. I hate to see the company tank when Gabe dies.

 

I have a very strong opinion on this issue.

I game on PC for better details and higher resolutions, keyboard and mouse. that is to say that is the only reason people game on PC. When the new consoles come out they will have insane detail at 1080p and possibly keyboard and mouse support. I will buy the next xbxox and leave my laptop for good as it will be useless then sell it and get a top of the line netbook.

PC gaming will die down quite a bit, quote me on that in a years time.

 

How about the Leap for your PC?

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_d6KuiuteIA&hl=nb_NO" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width='853' height="480" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">

 

I'm sure someone probably said the same thing back in 2005.

Sent from my SGH-T999

 

Yeah, you'll get better performance out of the next xbox than you will with your 6990m, but that doesn't mean people are going to stop gaming on pc's. The next xbox and ps3 will pale in comparison to 2013's (and especially beyond) high end gaming pc's. It won't take long for the ps4 and "720" to become completely outdated when compared to current pc hardware. I may end up buying a ps4 for exclusives, but I'll never go back to gaming exclusively on consoles.

 

true, but i have the money for a 500 dollar console not a 3000 dollar tweak machine.

 

Yeah I get where you're coming from, but it doesn't take 3 grand to beat a console either. I bet you could put together a pc with today's hardware for a grand or less that would beat a next gen consoles performance. Two years from now that number will have dropped significantly, just like today's cheap hardware stomps the ps3 and 360. I bet you'll be back in the pc crowd before too long

I'd just rather spend $500 on a 780m than a ps4, even if the 780m isn't much more powerful than the Sony.

 

I will because this has been said for the last several decades when new consoles were released.

 

You've made this point before and frankly it's stupid. There's nothing magic that's going to cause consoles to leapfrog PCs in detail and raw processing power. So in two years when the next gen comes out, they'll have insane detail at 1080p...which PCs already have. Why is that important?

 

Instead of insulting someone for having a logical opinion, develop your own logic instead of calling people much much smarter than you dumb. Games are run on gpus. your points will be valid when gpus>games

edit. where have you been the last 5 years? 99 percent of all games are console ports excluding indies. think.

 

What I find interesting is if you look at the adoption rate for the PS3 and Xbox360, there is going to be a period of at least a few years where the installed base for PS4 and Durango is going to be very low, yet publishers will be releasing lots of new next gen multiplatform games that aren't going to run on the old generation consoles, but I believe they will run just fine on our "obsolete" laptops and desktops.

Even if next gen multiplatform games turn out to be more demanding in some way, on PC you still have so many scalable options, whereas MS and Sony will ensure these new games do not run at all on the old consoles, so they can persuade console gamers to upgrade.

The Xbox360 launched in November 2005. It took five long years for the installed base to reach 50 million, in December 2010. The PS3 did not even reach an installed base of 50 million units until 2011! How long do you think it will take for the next gen Xbox and PS4 to get to that level? My guess is at least three to four years, if they even reach that level.

Meanwhile, the Steam client already has an installed base of 60 million PC gamers and growing. This will dwarf the next gen console installed base for at least the next several years.

 

The thing is that games are made on console because it is more profitable for game publishers to publish cross platform and the consoles are a bigger market overall. That much is true, but it's not because their graphics blow PCs out of the water, it is because of cost and convenience. PC gaming is already a niche and will remain to be a niche compared to consoles. However, I don't see things changing from the way they are now, we'll still games mostly developed for consoles, shoddy and good ports as well as games made for the PC primarily and then ported to consoles. RTS will remain mostly on the PC for certain, same goes for other types of games that don't lend well to consoles.

Also, as a reminder, don't let your tempers flare up or we'll once again have to delete posts, clean up stuff and if things go far enough, it'll go up to infractions, etc. Discuss this in a polite manner if you don't want the thread to get locked.

 

He never insulted your intelligence, only your argument. You're the one constantly telling others they're stupid because of your "IQ of 130." His point: PC gaming isn't going going to decline because consoles can suddenly do something that computers have been doing for years. Your point: 99% of all games are console ports. So? Consoles dominate the video game market (hence so many games being ported to PC) but that doesn't mean the PC is going anywhere. It still offers better hardware, better online distribution (Steam,) better Indie development, and it's less restricted compared to the playstation and xbox. His point was valid and logical, and your's wasn't.

Do you ever consider why your posts always lead to flame wars and locked threads?

 

The Xbox 360 released with a GPU slightly better than AMD's top dog at the time. One thing that is funny is that the integrated GPU on my 3 year old AMD netbook has the same processing power as that GPU. But it's using system memory so has much poorer performance.

However, the PS3 uses a 7900GT with its memory bandwidth cut in half and was released just after Nvidia's 8000 series. More like mid-range card at the time.

 

Why don't you understand that the GPUs in consoles are analogous to the ones in PCs? There's nothing magic about a console GPU. You say you're much smarter than me, but your argument is nonsensical and unsupported by...anything, really.

 

Let's not forget either that most all console games are 720p and upscaled to 1080p. The last few generations of higher end mobile GPU's can handle 1080p no problem at least at low/medium detail no problem. Heck I remember playing BF3 on the DV6z with AMD A8 and 6750m at 1080p 30fps+ at low detail.

I think the new consoles will be a bonus for PC though, at least up the minimum requirements so we get some improved graphics and hopefully improved AI and other such things that are limited by the meager processing power of current gen consoles.

 

Honestly I welcome the new generation of consoles with open arms.

It means PCs will get to stetch their legs more often as unified architectures and scaling will happen due to the PCs always being a step ahead and ports being little more than enabling features the consoles have no prayer in "heck" to enable due to limited hardware.

Even if the new PS4 is a 7970m and a10, that's a huge upgrade. (essentially a GX60) Its is still behind the desktop PC, but not so far that games developed for consoles wouldn't just enable higher-end features and higher resolutions. (multi-screen)

If the console developers would just enable USB mice (or similar devices), the consoles would no longer be limited by their controllers either and ports would have native access to more accurate control devices as well.

All of this bodes well for PC gaming as quite frankly the games developed would start to highlight the PC's advantages.

The console's advantage remains.... price, and ease of use. However, those who want more control and power can have it.
Everyone wins.

As for PC gaming... it's never going away. Some people like making choices and having the hardware they like.
Some people are okay with driving around in an pregnant-roller-skate of an economy car.
Some people want a truck.
Others prefer their sports car.
It's fine.

 

I also welcome the new consoles as they can now at least use the Radeon 7000m cards as the basis for modeling and rendering. And remember, 2014, just months after the PS4 and Xbox 3 are released, is the time for new GPU architectures which would make it a good time to upgrade. The only sticky points with PC gaming is that developers still treat it as second class citizens. Why was there no Red Dead Redemption on PC? Why doesn't Mass Effect have controller support? Why no Madden or Tiger Woods? And many more console only games. A lot of it is because PC's are not as living room ready. Valve with their Steambox will hopefully help out with this.

 

Everything is good if the next gen console doesn't have Enduro issues .

 

Haha.. I would hope they wouldn't bother with the on-die GPU. Just down clock the discrete one to like 50mhz when not in a game or video and leave it active all the time.

 

I thought I read something that suggested they planned to do asymmetrical crossfire with the IGP.

 

NOOOOO!

They better optimize the hell outta it then because that just leads to horrific microstutter. But then again, maybe it will force better drivers for PC to support crossfire with the IGP.

 

Console gamers won't care... soon they will be telling us how microstutter is better anyway.

 

Yeah lol, they'll just think it's a cool dubstep "feature".