How will Ampere scale on laptops?

Oh I definitely don't think they want it to go away, that's evident with the new silicon. They just would have tried to restrict it without also launching a mining only SKU if they didn't care. I just also think that they are cognizant of the fact that the gamers being upset and people giving up on building a PC for gaming is a bad look, as the only company that is making out on consoles is AMD right now. You even have influencers like Hardware Unboxed already giving the "just wait till next gen" already due to largely no one has been able to get any Ampere or RNDA2 cards. I don't think it's just empty window dressing, this is A LOT of money to spend for a corporation to just try to send some message that they "care about gamers".

nVidia definitely does not ultimately give any F's about the used market that Linus speaks of. nVidia doesn't make any money when a used card changes hands.

Truthfully Linus is about two things there, creating controversy for views, and... tin-foil-hat... perhaps LMG is mining crypto somewhere in their back room and they wanted more efficient cards to use.

 

Miners will be hesitant to buy cards they wouldn't be able to sell if no longer needed, so Nvidia's gimmick will achieve nothing for anyone. The specs of the new crypto chips look quite poor, so the uptake from miners will be further limited for that reason. This wretched idea will blow up in Nvidia's face - they will have wasted a good stone while killing zero birds. The stone will get be picked up by AMD, as they continue to slowly grab market share. They do need a boost, and Nvidia is handing it to them on a silver platter.

If I understood your question correctly: $7/day would still be a good return - imagine you had a 50 or 100 GPU farm, it's not too bad. I don't know where the $7/day number after crippling is coming from. $7 would be the current profitability assuming normal drivers, and the 3060 sitting 10% below the 3070.

 

gross minors

 

AMDs stock situation seems worse as they allocate their share of tsmc 7nm to higher margin ryzen and probably contracts for the two new consoles.

 

It's from Nvidia (Del Rizzo) but I believe he said 7 per week, not day. He is also the one that corrected the original driver only announcement stating that a secure handshake between driver, bios, and silicon must be made that should prevent the removal of the hash tag limiter. Further that the Ethereum only thing was because it was far and away the highest yield and the main driver of the mining GPU sales. That was followed with an explanation of why miners couldn't easily switch but it was technical and as I didn't fully understand it I'm not going to attempt to paraphrase it. In any event as to my post the miners will live with whatever new paradigm they have to live with and not being able to easily sell used cards does look like the road Nvidia wants them to take. Should they go there they'll do whatever profit dictates: If you count the beans and buying nerfed gaming cards is going to lead to a better result than what Nvidia wants to sell them then that's what they'll do until it isn't the best result. That's why I was asking if brute force might be viable in that new reality.

 

My post did follow yours but I was responding to the general tenor of the thread rather than your post specifically. I agree in the main with your thoughts and don't really disagree with any of it. I was more trying to remind that corporate statements should not be taken at face value without due consideration. As to your post I did try and avoid the Linus part of it because it's a tangent that functional brains want to go down but probably shouldn't here and now. I'll only say I refuse to click on a video title with "The brutal truth", "REAL REASON", or any other clickbait in it and spend little time watching video from major outlets like his for just the reasons you describe.

To go back to the new mining processor there are (alleged) leaked photos of it in the wild and the smart people are saying it's neither the layout of a GA104/102 or Turing but does resemble Pascal. That would certainly shed light on how it won't impede 30 series sales. It did seem like binning within the 30 series was a stretch to cover that statement.

 

One thing for sure... Nvidia have no interest in flooding the market with loads of Ampere graphics. A lot better push out more old Turing cards as 2060. Which means the gamers will come back much faster when the 4xxx series cards is out (Mining could be dead and they have to rely on gamers to buy their next gen cards). Too many used Ampere cards flooding the sales channels will destroy later profit if mining become dead.

 

There's a hack that makes cad applications (solidworks at least) detect your card as a quadro card and unlock gpu accelerated features. I'm using it atm so yeah, it's just a software lock to make professional who can't be bothered with workarounds pay a premium.

 

Mining seems to follow GPU generations, with each increase in mining capability reigniting the crypto-craze. The 4000 series will see the same as the previous few series.

 

Kind of. The main reason for the current craze is just the huge appreciation of crypto. Even mining on Turing and Pascal is hugely profitable compared to the usual pathetic mining profits. Ampere release is just coincidental, but well timed for the miners.

Not necessarily. Bitcoin has been unmineable on GPUs for a long time, and unless a quantum leap occurs in GPU trchnology(I don't have the exact numbers on hand but I guess we are talking about 10x more performance per watt +) this won't change.
As for Ethereum, they are planning to migrate away from traditional mining by 2022 (although this has been a moving goalpost since 2017), the transition is underway. The new ETH2 will require just 1% of the current resources to run the network.
It's clear to me it's the way forward for all crypto, the traditional blockchain is just way too inefficient.

Of course, there are other coins, not that far behind Ethereum in profitability that miners could switch to if it was just ETH that went offline.

 

Great point, which is probably one of the reasons why they decided not to tinker with drivers for the already released cards. Even if it worked somehow, the go to place for all GPU needs at bargain prices would be ebay for months Prices at primary retailers would crash back to MSRP and below. OK a slight exaggeration perhaps given the broader semiconductor shortage and corona, but it would affect demand for new graphics cards sure.

 

It's $7 per day or $3-2.5 after nerfing, depending on electricity costs. As you say, this would still be a usable card for miners, although they would have better options, including AMD offerings which do very well too.

 

Well, purely from the gamer's perspective - yep: "no graphics cards, it's very bad", but if you take a broader view it's a bit less clear. Yes, the impact on the environment is bad too, but on the other hand they are trying to replace banks (they are just processing transactions on the cryptocurrency network and getting paid for it) which many would consider a positive. Also the bubble is not really the miners' fault - their activity actually depreciates the currency, if anyone is to "blame" is all the people and entities piling into crypto, many hoping to make millions based on a moderate investment.

 

This was a wordplay joke (miner/minor) in case you didn't pick it up.

 

Rather force changes to the distributors/retailers and its AIB partners than crippling the cards. I expect higher than MSRP is preferred over everything else. They all will have a bite of the cake as long the mining is still propfitable. Even Nvidia (they can now get rid of old stocks of old cards from the last half decade - without worrying that the old cards will disrupt the consumer market for the next gen cards).

Ryan Smith & Dr. Ian Cutress at Ananadtech was spot on with this statement " These professional miners buy graphics card by the pallet load" sometimes bypassing retailers and going direct to distributors, as they can guarantee a complete shipment sale in one go".

This sum it up... This manufacturer has made a huge goof by publicly endorsing a mining farm featuring ZOTAC graphics cards on Twitter.

CryptoLeo already got access to NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 before it launches officially next week. The retailer that was selling these cards ahead of launch for nearly 800 USD has already sold out all 3060 cards. It just shows how easy it is for scalping distributors to sell cards, which are still under embargo.

Nvidia could ban all scammers from getting cards if they really wanted. But max profit in lack of better words - Greed will always win.

NVIDIA Nerfs Ethereum Hash Rate & Launches CMP Dedicated Mining Hardware
One of the critical points during this period of high demand for graphics cards is that a portion of them are being purchased by professional users looking to mine cryptocurrencies. The recent launch of new cards coupled with record highs in the cryptocurrency market has led to a rebirth of the mining community, who as of recently could earn ~$15/day per RTX 3090 graphics card. These professional miners buy graphics card by the pallet load, sometimes bypassing retailers and going direct to distributors, as they can guarantee a complete shipment sale in one go. The knock on effect is fewer cards available for gamers looking to build new systems, leading to empty shelves and causing prices to spike for the handful of cards that ever make it to retailers.

Edit.
Same pathern also for PlayStation 5.

"An earlier IGN India report indicated that official Sony resellers themselves were involved in scalping. Worse still, these official retail partners appeared to ask customers to lie to Sony if they were asked how much they paid for their console"
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Where...rs-off-eCommerce-sites-en-masse.523141.0.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

Btw. For those who thought AMD would be the golden saviour over Intel's Cpu overheating mess in laptops we have seen the last years. This just show what I have predicted the last years. New released features as Dynamic boost will be used for all what it's worth. Cheaper than implementing proper cooling! And as well be good help for the OEM to further shrink on chassis size/skimp on cooling.

"The CPU reached a core temperature of 97°C 100°C after a short time, whereupon the CPU clock steadily fell until it finally stabilized at 2.8 GHz. The GPU temperature rises to around 85 ° C, which results in the graphics card lowering its clock rate to 1,395 MHz to prevent the core temperature from exceeding 85 ° C"


Asus ROG Strix G15 G513QR Laptop Review - AMD and Nvidia combined notebookcheck.com

 

How would nVidia do this?

 

No human rights being distributor / reseller / retailer / AIB partner. Same as the Car manufacturers her home can ban companies from selling their brand if they do not follow their rules.

As well etc Amazon can ban some from selling their products on their website.

You have also this options...

John Carmack Suggests Manufacturer-Direct Auctions To Thwart GPU And Console Scalpers hothardware.com
Is it too much to ask that we be allowed to buy the latest generation PC and console hardware at regular pricing, from first-party vendors? Under normal circumstances, paying full price is not a lofty expectation. But this past year has been anything but normal, and product shortages combined with determined scalpers... Read more...

But as I have said before. Profit beats dignity. Remember also Nvidia pushed out cards to the miners before the new cards reached the sales channels.

 

do you guys think a overclocked 3080 mobile can match a desktop 2080ti

 

Short answer: No. Someone in my Discord server with the 150W+ 3080M in the GE76 holds first place for the 3080M in FS and TS last I checked, and his scores are just below the desktop 3070, let alone the faster 2080 Ti.

 

Nvidia crippled their new line mobile graphics cards!
https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-A...-Intel-NUC-into-a-4K-Powerhouse.522583.0.html

 

isnt the 3070 faster than the 2080ti

 

Depends on the game, what feature you put in games (RT) and what benchmarks you run.


Edit.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-G...desktop-graphics-card-in-review.512454.0.html

 

Nope

 

Nvidia couldn't even give the 3070 desktop card the full die. I expect they hoped for a Ti or Super upgrade. Milk all the way as you know


Edit. New results for you Graphics cards in test 2021: test results in detail computerbase.de

 

Isn't my highest score from my GE76 raider but I cracked 13K gpu score with some overclocking and pretty much match a full desktop 3070. With some more overclocking and tuning ill go even higher. Impressive.

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/18527244

 

Still below 2080Ti though

 

Good to see RX 6900 XT in the top aggregate spot, and AMD in top 4 out of 6 places. Not to worry though, Nvidia is busy giving the world a crippled 3060 and a CP HX nobody asked for.

 

To get 3070 performance in a mobile form factor that's a fraction the size of a mid-tower is nothing to sneeze at and an impressive feat. IMO it's all the shenanigans, obfuscation, and lack of the fire breathing DTRs that are causing the ire.

 

But a huge step up from a 2080/2080 super. Plus I'm not done yet. I'll hit 14K gpu soon lol

 

Mainly the fact that the whole mobile lineup is so severely cut down compared to the desktop counterpart.

We would have had 3070 level performance from a 3080 Max-q if it used the 3080 die instead of a 3070 die

 

i asked because a while back i watched the video below and it looked like in games the 3070 was equal or faster.




but after watching the video in completion it looks like the 2080ti is 1 frame faster in most games..

so verdict 3080 mobile will net you 60fps overclocked and the 2080ti 61-62fps not exactly even but close enough...some games im sure will run faster on the mobile 3080..i think iv'e decided i'm getting a ge76 with the 3080....pretty big jump from the 1060

but to sum it up v-style


not huge but enough...the gains of ampere is decent watt for watt

also i wonder how it scores in heaven and valley with 8xaa extreme settings just to see how far its come in a realistic test

 

How can you say it’s a huge step up from last gen? https://www.3dmark.com/spy/18009924

Last time I saw similar minor step up in performance was from 780m to 880m.

Btw. Msi still avoid Nvidia's request/demands to the OEM's to show TGP and boost clocks in their specs sheet. How long time do MSI need? Maybe they can fix it when Nvidia push out 4xxx mobile cards?

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GE76-Raider-10UX/Specification

Gigabyte do it correct. At least for the specs sheet. Spartan's YouTube review of his new turd.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...5-owners-lounge.804575/page-427#post-11080160

 

Your comparing a 200watt heavily overclocked 2080 super to a 150w 3080 that isn't fully overclocked yet. When the 200w 3080 arrives for the desktop replacements it will easily beat this. Not to mention much better performance in RT and DLSS in games

 

I compare what we have today. And we have clock-block 3.0. And Ampere is a tweaked 10nm (8nm) which should lower the power consumption over old Turing.

Not so sure we will see magic “if” Nvidia find out they will let the OEMs have more than 165W TGP with Dynamic boost they offer today. You said huge leap/step above. I said no If you get etc +14300, it’s still only 10% increased performance.

 

The highest base TGP for the 3080M is 150W, and that includes the only DTR still left on the market, the Clevo X170KM-G.

 

Really? So the 150w variant I'm playing with is the best we will see? That's a little disappointing

 

Yes, very disappointing for performance enthusiasts.

 

Yes it is. For gamers only however, its still An amazing GPU. Too bad, the whole point of these huge DTR notebooks was to bench the hell out of them and match their desktop counterparts. What about the Dell DGFF? Don't they decide what TDP to give it?

 

Not that the 3080M could have possibly hoped to match the desktop 3080 since they’re completely different GPUs this generation. But it would’ve been nice to at least have gotten a 200W+ 3080M that could match the desktop 3070 at stock since the 3080M has more CUDA cores anyway.

No new Alienware DTR in the immediate future, the BGA M17 R4 is their flagship for now.

 

The problem with this "fine for gamers only" argument is that latest games can consume all the GPU power you throw at them. Especially with all the high refresh rate screens, and/or at 4K, you are just getting an inferior experience to what the desktop Ampere can offer. That's very disappointing for gaming enthusiasts, especially given the price point at which those "top spec" Ampere laptops are being offered.

 

What?! No 51m R3? Probably waiting on the 11 series from Intel first. And looking at benchmarks for my 150w 3080, it's pretty close to a desktop 3070 stock. I'm sure I'll push it further and match it

 

That'd be something, but ultimately such an exercise would prove very little, because obviously the desktop card can also be overclocked, and likely to a far greater extent using tools available to desktop enthusiasts only.

 

You forgot the amazing Dynamic boost The best you can get in an Ampere gamingbooks nowadays is 150+15W ~ 165W. Castrate the Cpu for more Gpu performance.


See 165W vs 200W Turing should be around the same regarding efficiency if you compare the Process node used for both.



See also.... https://www.notebookcheck.net/Compr...U-along-with-corresponding-TGPs.517977.0.html

 

sky is blue granted can isn't will

 

never had anything bad to say but I posted a video showing 95w vs 95w and the 3080 is by far better

 

First they drain the extra power from the batteries, now the CPU? Are we going to shift power from Storage, RAM, and WLAN next? Or better yet drain the power from the high refresh panels and make them display at 60hz so we can go back full circle?

 

like if your getting 90fps and they shift power off cpu...would the framerate drop to 40....or is it only going to alleviate bottleneck

 

Well, can consume the power, if it is available... Put another way, they do consume that power right now, and of course will consume more in the future. Not everyone is a son of an oligarch, and many like to keep their machines around for a bit. Given that all but one gaming laptops on the market are non-upgradable, less power at inception means the laptop will have that much shorter useful lifetime.

 

You can’t compare watt for watt. The newer node is more power efficient. Especially at so low wattage.

 

Let the mindfu*k continues.